Quaker cottages in Harold’s Cross

I think – just after Harold Cross bridge, as you’re heading south, into the left.

You’re sure they’re the Pim ones?

No, I’m not – just guessing. They could be Dublin Artisan Dwelling Co

I wouldn’t be so sure- I think those Harold’s Cross ones are later in date. Similar in design and layout to the cottages around Oxmantown Road.

Still doesn’t answer your question though, sorry.

The millpond here was the Greenmount mill owned by Pim – so perhaps the cottages were / are on that side somewhere?

From Lewis:
On a branch of a river which rises above Castle Hill are some extensive mills; and in the neighbourhood is a very extensive cotton factory, called the Green Mount Mills, belonging to Messrs. Pim, and employing 150 persons. The machinery of these mills is driven by a steam-engine of 25 and a water-wheel of 20-horse power, giving motion to 100 power-looms and 6000 spindles; there are also a paper-mill and a flour-mill.

From memory there are a small number of single story cottages ala Harolds Cross Cottages or Gullistan in Rathmines on the same side as Greenmont Business Park but they are on a very small scale maybe 10-20 and lead into some form of 1970’s industrial buildings; there was a lot of redevelopment of this area c1925-30 so it is very possible that the majority of the cottages were part of a later gentrification.

Interesting – from the map, it looks as if the Harold’s Cross Cottages would be in the right place – just across Harold’s Cross Road from the mill.

The millpoind looks as if it was a widening of the stream that goes down through Mount Argus now. But that millpond itself is gone, if Google Earth is to be believed – though I can’t even see that stream on Google Earth; the detail isn’t close enough.

these guys?

http://maps.live.com/default.aspx?v=2&FORM=LMLTCP&cp=swn7vwgg9cmn&style=b&lvl=2&tilt=-90&dir=0&alt=-1000&scene=29507658&phx=0&phy=0&phscl=1&where1=dublin&encType=1

That’s the ones I’m thinking of.

Alonso – I don’t know. I’m wondering if anyone knows which specific bunch of worker dwellings in Harold’s Cross would be the Pim ones – if anyone knows the history.

I’m also wondering if there’s a specifically Quaker style of building, either in Ireland or internatinonally.

According to a property report in the Times, number 80 (at least) is one of the Artisan Dwelling Company ones, built in the 1880s.
http://www.ireland.com/newspaper/property/2007/0524/1179498700317.html

I would imagine Ruth McManus would have something about them in one of her books.

There are several streets of two storey houses which correspond with the usual Dublin Artiscan Dwelling Co pattern. The single storey cottages may be by their hand also – I’m just guessing that they could be the cottages asked about.

Alternatively in the old map – there are a row of buildings facing the canal which could be the cottages,

I was going to mention those ones. I used to live nearby, and I was always struck by the low ground level of the terrace on the south bank of the canal at this point, particularly the easternmost house (nearest the bridge). I presume the canal bank is man-made at this point, but it’s unusual to see such low levels so close. The only other Grand Canal bridge I know of that has such low-lying ground immediately adjacent is at Hazelhatch.

Tighin-
At a guess, the millpond was in the spot where this school now stands, specifically the building with the big brown roofs. (As an aside, that building looks worthy of a closer look- the roofs are crazy.)

There are a handful of cottages on the same side of the road just before the hospice into the right coming from town. They have a sort of rounded shape ‘flat’ roof on them. Single storey cottages. I’ll pop round in a while and get some pictures if they’re the same ones.

In the meantime here’s the ariel view. I know in that business park (i think is greenmount) would certainly qualify as old mill buildings. I’ve a book upstairs that I’ll also take a look at about Harolds cross it has a section on mills etc.

http://maps.live.com/#JnE9eXAuZHVibGluJTdlc3N0LjAlN2VwZy4xJmJiPTUwLjczNjQ1NTEzNzAxMDYlN2UtOTUuNzEyODkwNjI1JTdlMjEuNjk4MjY1NDk2ODUyNSU3ZS0xNDguMzU5Mzc1

You could ask the Quakers – they appear to have records of charitable works by their members.
http://www.quakers-in-ireland.ie/quaker350/charity.htm

The yellow box surround the houses along the canal – they look rather big to be workers cottages.

the red box area looks promising.

Forgot to post this earlier:

Re the Quakers- the Malcolmson family in Portlaw, Co. Waterford, were Quakers, and they built a number of buildings in and around that village. The bigger ones were in an Italianate style typical of the mid-nineteenth century, so probably not peculiar to the Quakers, though the one Quaker building in Dublin with which I’m familiar, aside from the Irish Film Institute, is in a similar style- it’s No.1 Ailesbury Road, on the corner with Merrion Road, the former home of the Jacob (of the biscuit fame) family, now the priests’ house attached to a school. Perhaps the did have a ‘house style’ after all.

See this link for a previous mention. The Majella Walsh thesis mentioned there covers the whole of the village.
https://archiseek.com/content/showthread.php?p=33731&highlight=portlaw#post33731

Also, I thought there would be no connection between the Portlaw stuff and the cottages you’re investigating, but looking at the aerial photo Paul has posted above, it seems that the batch of cottages in the bigger red box might share some characteristics with the Portlaw workers’ housing. Those Portlaw houses, single- and two-storey, had an unusual roof profile- neither flat nor pitched, but rather segmental, i.e. a smooth curve from front to back supported, as far as I know, on curved trusses (unlike, say, the Lamella type of roof [a crazy construction method in its own right], or any typical barrel vault). They were also originally felted and tarred rather than slated or corrugated. If the weather holds, I might try to have a look at those HX houses this evening on the way home. I should know instantly whether they’re related to the Portlaw ones.

Also, the dates would strongly suggest a relationship- Portlaw was 1840s in the main.

Hope this helps.

What streets abut the houses in the red box, please?

Limekiln Lane is the bigger box

Not wishing to confuse the issue but I always assumed some of the small redricks around there were soldiers cottages like the ones in Sarsfield street, Sallynoggin:confused: I vaguely remember a properrty supplement mentioning something to that effect in the past.

these are the ones in the Noggin. PS How do you embed Live Maps

http://maps.live.com/default.aspx?v=2&FORM=LMLTCP&cp=swcyq7ggnnfc&style=b&lvl=2&tilt=-90&dir=0&alt=-1000&scene=29514272&phx=0&phy=0&phscl=1&where1=dublin&encType=1

yup thats what I was thinking in the bigger of the red boxes those sort of dome roofed cottages, thats into greenmount and limekiln lane. For some reason I couldnt get the map to work on this

If these aren’t the Quaker ones I’ll eat my hat.

Lime Kiln Lane.

Segmental gables.

Greenmount Lane.

And for comparison, here’s one from Portlaw (from the http://www.buildingsofireland.com website):

Unfortunately none of the photos on the NIAH site really show the roof profile, but it is the same.

The entry on Portlaw is worth checking out for the Italianate stuff too.
http://www.buildingsofireland.com/niah/highlights.jsp?county=WA&list=true#Portlaw

Lovely little buildings with those curved-profile roofs. Pity there has been no attempt preserve and conserve the original brickwork in most of them, and the general environment and the street surfaces in particular are pretty dismal. But nothing is amiss that at some point could not be put right.

Interesting little houses – huge windows in proportion to the doorways.

As an aside, this is a great thread – pose a question – get some discussion – narrow the location down – end result: photos of building.

@Paul Clerkin wrote:

As an aside, this is a great thread – pose a question – get some discussion – narrow the location down – end result: photos of building.

Agreed. Now if we could just work out a way to make a few quid off it. 😀

But joking aside, between this sort of thread and the How Well Do You Know Dublin one, it’s a great way of exploring the city. After all, outside lies magic!

Well, PaulClerkin, congratulations, you’re right. I wandered down there today, and found the two rows of cottages, off Greenmount Lane and Limekiln Lane.

Originally built in Dolphin’s Barn brick, most have been horridly gentrified with pebble dash and stone glued on. There’s a general air of impoverishment, though some houses are obviously loved.

I noticed an open window and knocked on the door, and a stately man with a white beard came out and told me, in a lovely old-fashioned Dublin Protestant accent, that these were indeed the cottages built by the Greenmount Linen and Something Company.

The rooves, he told me, were in a style called a Belfast roof, and this is always a felt roof, never tiled or slated.

The Pims’ workers must have been exceptionally tiny and plain-living; I paced out one of the houses and it seemed to measure 6 metres by 8, with a garden of perhaps 4 metres’ length.

Incidentally, looking at other Quaker model villages in Ireland, I came across this interesting piece about Bessbrook:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/northernireland/yourplaceandmine/armagh/bessbrook_millhouse.shtml

The houses there look pretty nice.

Portlaw in Waterford was another Quaker model village, but I haven’t found anything much about it yet.

Edit: spoke too soon – here’s a gorgeous Flickr page about it: http://www.flickr.com/photos/joecashin/sets/72157594510304298/

@Tighin wrote:

a lovely old-fashioned Dublin Protestant accent.

What the hell is that when it’s at home?

@alonso wrote:

What the hell is that when it’s at home?

Dunno about hell, but it sounds like my great-aunts’ accent.

By the way, in relation to the huge size of the windows in proportion to the doors, I didn’t measure them or anything, obviously, but they *looked* as if the windows and doors were exactly the same size.

I was down in Ballitore in Kildare – very interesting village, the only planned Quaker community ever built in Ireland, apparently, and the site of a famous boarding school – non-demoninational but run by Quakers – that educated boys (and later girls) from all over Europe. Some of its noted grads were Edmund Burke, Cardinal Cullen and Napper Tandy.

The village is gorgeous, and is full of beautiful houses preserved from the 18th century, though many are hiding behind pebble-dash and the like.

The house where Edmund Burke had his study, a tall thin house, is hiding in a garden with houses built around it.

There’s one amusing house, built by a Bewley paranoid of his beautiful daughters; the girls’ bedrooms had no windows, so they couldn’t be looking out at the good-looking boys of the school (or the boys looking in at them), so it’s got windows on one side of the door and a big blank wall on the other.