Post boxes

I’ve seen a few, alright. It used to be my job to see them, so I was paying particular attention. Can’t think of any precise locations, though, I’m afraid.

There is a good variety of ciphers/insignias/callthemwhatyouwant on postboxes- one of the rarer ones is S.E. for Saorstat Eireann. There’s a wall-mounted box in Monaghan town bearing this lettering.

My favourite boxes in the country, though, are the hexagonal pillar postboxes from the Victorian era- same lettering, but smaller and far more decorative than the standard pillar postboxes. Acorn finials, beading around the base of the cap, etc. I’ve heard there are 6 in the whole country, of which I know the locations of four. It’s a bit of a personal quest.:)

PS I think there was a thread a while back (a good while, now) where this was discussed in a bit of detail. I’m not having a go- just saying that if you wanted to do a search (I haven’t the time right now) you might find more.

Andrew-
Here’s the thread I was thinking of: https://archiseek.com/content/showthread.php?t=4353

Yes I believe there’s a George V box or two in Dundalk also – will check it out.
In Dublin they’re certainly pretty rare. I imagine it’s because the Post Office invested heavily in post offices and boxes in a major national upgrading project (presumably via OPW) around 1900-1910, so George’s later reign lost out in the insignia department.

A nice later box here at the junction of Lower Mount Street (all attendant clutter had to be cropped out :rolleyes: )

Also the late Victorian box as recently featured on Dartmouth Square South:

Agreed about the lovely Victorian boxes, often forgotton about. The rounded pillar box is a comparitively recent innovation.

…though according to An Post the Penfold’s weren’t great in the practicality department.

http://www.anpost.ie/AnPost/MainContent/About+An+Post/History/about-postboxes.htm

Salthill?! That makes five! Only one more to go.

I knew New Ross already (pic in the link Graham posted), along with Galway city, Skibbereen, and a house in Kilmacanogue in Wicklow which has one as its domestic box! I glimpsed it one day as we were driving up a winding, hilly road and couldn’t quite believe my eyes- still must go back to make sure I wasn’t dreaming.

That Salthill one looks quite stubby, though- is the pic a bit distorted, I wonder?

And I noticed recently while passing through New Ross that the hotel in front of which the New Ross box stands is up for sale- I hope the box doesn’t get ‘lost’ in the process.

Lastly, the rarest box I know of stands in the train station in Cork city- I think it;s the only one of its kind in the country.

For the curious, today I found more info on boxes here, from which page the Letter Box Study Group homepage can be found.

I know abit irrelevant from the topic, even though I love our old post boxes, but when are we to get post codes? I thought we were to have them by now, have they scrapped the idea? Is there some sort of protection order on the old post boxes? I wouldn’t mind seeing a few reproductions around the place, especially those hexagonal ones.

Do we need postal codes? I always thought Dublin and Ireland were both small enough to get away with not needing them.
Anyone who might possess pictures of post-independence boxes, could you please put em p? There’s a lovely one near UCD that I’ll take a snap of tomorrow, with the decorative ‘Posts and Telegraphs’ cipther.
Green-painted post boxes; a symbol of the free state if ever there was one!!

@ctesiphon wrote:

There is a good variety of ciphers/insignias/callthemwhatyouwant on postboxes- one of the rarer ones is S.E. for Saorstat Eireann. There’s a wall-mounted box in Monaghan town bearing this lettering.

Just noticed this morning that there is one at the Junction of Inchicore Road & Sarsfield Road in Inchicore.
The detail is a bit obscured by years of paint.

Was on walkies during lunch hour yesterday and took a couple of pics with the mentioned Inchicore SE post boxes. Well here they are, if anyone’s interested. Taken with camera phone.

Graham

Yup- that’s the one. Thanks. Looking at it afresh, I don’t remember the Monaghan one having a crown over the slot. Leads me to wonder whether this isn’t, say, a Victorian box with a replacement door, or even just an SE cipher stuck onto a Voctorian door- the SE looks slightly crooked, which would suggest the latter is a possibility. Hmmm…

@A-ha wrote:

Is there some sort of protection order on the old post boxes?

The NIAH includes postboxes in its surveys, as it does for much street furniture. This was certainly the case with the town surveys a few years ago. Whether it’s still done for the broader-brush county surveys I don’t know. An of course, whether the councillors decide to accept the recommendations of the NIAH is another question altogether.

There’s another relevant point here- that An Post sometimes moves post boxes around the place, so there’s no guarantee that a box today is in its original location. It made me think perhaps boxes should be tagged or given a code to assist in their protection/classification etc. Maybe An Post has already done this? I’d be curious to know if they have a full list. Not that I’m a box-nerd or anything…:o

Never seen a Saorstat Eireann one before…. very cool.
Where’s the SE one in Monaghan?

Isn’t it just – it must be very rare.

The relic that is the crown emblem is particularly interesting, suggesting as you say ctesiphon that the S

Think you have a point there ctesiphon
Post Box with mixed Loyalties in Sligo 🙂 SE & Edward VII
http://www.buildingsofireland.ie/niah/search.jsp?type=images&county=SL&regno=32401408

but the pull handle on the one in Inchicore is more like the one on this Victorian example
http://www.buildingsofireland.ie/niah/search.jsp?type=images&county=SL&regno=32007013

But the crown is most likely George V
http://www.buildingsofireland.ie/niah/search.jsp?type=images&county=SL&regno=32314014

@LOB wrote:

Think you have a point there ctesiphon
Post Box with mixed Loyalties in Sligo 🙂 SE & Edward VII
but the pull handle on the one in Inchicore is more like the one on this Victorian example

Nice detective work.:)
Interesting too to note the updated ‘cipher’ on the Victorian one…;)

Paul-
I’ll have to check the archive for a print photo. I think I still have one.
From a quick check of a map of Monaghan town centre, I’d guess it was Mill Street or thereabouts. Certainly west (?) of the courthouse.
I’ll see what I can find.

I cannot place a postbox on Mill Street apart from the Post Office.. could be the bottom of Park Street where the “brothers’ steps” are. There is one there, no sure if it is still in use though

Could be it- I seem to remember the box being pretty dilapidated.

I have seen a couple of threads that reference pillar style post boxes in Dublin. I am interested to find out if anyone knows of a list, or can tell me where I can locate any boxes left over from British rule, or “SE” style boxes, that are located within the city of Dublin. I leave for Dublin Wednesday morning, and would like to photograph some of the boxes while I am there.

Thanks in advance for any replies.

Eric Lafferty

Hi Eric,
If you’re staying in the city centre, there should be older pillar post boxes nearby. A good number of our boxes still bear royal ciphers as the photos here attest.
As far as I know, there isn’t a comprehensive list (see my post #11 above), and the NIAH surveys mentioned above don’t yet include Dublin city or county. But look at the link in post #4 above for some leads, perhaps.
Are you looking for any particular type of box? There are no hexagons in Dublin, but there are a few other unusual types such as the double box – for ‘Dublin’ and ‘All Other Places’ – on Dame Street. If you’re sticking to the Georgian parts of town, you shouldn’t have too much trouble finding what you’re after.

Paul-
I haven’t forgotten about you, just been run off my feet lately. I’ll be back soon.

I’ve asked my sister who is Heritage Officer for County Monaghan – but she’s off work at the moment….

@ctesiphon wrote:

Hi Eric,
If you’re staying in the city centre, there should be older pillar post boxes nearby. A good number of our boxes still bear royal ciphers as the photos here attest.
As far as I know, there isn’t a comprehensive list (see my post #11 above), and the NIAH surveys mentioned above don’t yet include Dublin city or county. But look at the link in post #4 above for some leads, perhaps.
Are you looking for any particular type of box? There are no hexagons in Dublin, but there are a few other unusual types such as the double box – for ‘Dublin’ and ‘All Other Places’ – on Dame Street. If you’re sticking to the Georgian parts of town, you shouldn’t have too much trouble finding what you’re after.

ctesiphon, thanks for your reply. I’m staying in the city centre on Aungier Street, so I will have to take a good look around as I roam about the city. I’m not really looking for any one design in particular (I know there are dozens of designs and have no formal knowledge on the subject as many others I have seen do). I appreciate your writing back.

Eric

Post codes:

Apparently the post codes roll out in 2008. They’re still finalising the details.

We definitely do need them. The major problem is that Ireland has lots and lots of non-unique addresses and very vague fuzzy addresses. Reliable delivery of mail / packages and other items requires extensive local knowledge which is all held by your local post man who is an An Post employee.

If this postman/woman changes job, etc it can take months for mail to arrive reliably again.

But, more fundementally, for other operators DHL, TNT, FedEX and others there is a major problem delivering to addresses as they’re often very difficult to locate.

This often makes package delivery in Ireland very slow and in efficient once you go outside of central business districts of cities.

Add to that the inability of emergency services to easily locate addresses!
A post code can identify a property far far more effectively than a typical Irish address.

Finally, adding a post code line to our addresses avoids the need to have to change them to a more logical format. We can keep traditional townlands, etc etc address bilingually …
As it stands there are some areas where people have to put neighbouring counties on their addresses to ensure reliable delivery !!!

Righto. I am going to have a search around Monaghan Town for the SE postbox and will post a pic when found.

Try Market Street, maybe? Looking again at a map, I’m almost certain it is (was?) in the vicinity of the Dawson Monument.

http://www.monaghantourism.com/html/monaghanmap.html

really? I cannot place a postbox there at all…

Craetegus I think bottom of Park Street, or Broad Road near St. Enda’a

Embarrassing confession time- I have a pic of the box, but it’s only a close-up. I (unforgivably) didn’t take a context shot. As soon as I get it scanned, I’ll stick it up anyway, but I’m preparing you for disappointment. Still, I guarantee it’s in Monaghan, and it’s certainly an SE box.

Edit:

Here it is. From memory, the street it’s on slopes down from left to right, and I think it was on a building no higher than 2 storeys, maybe even only one, that was near a junction (out of shot to the right). The building was a little the worse for wear, so I wouldn’t be surprised to hear the box had been moved since 1999. In fact, it would seem from the pic that the box is on the ‘seam’ between two buildings.
If you can’t read it, the text along the bottom seems to say ‘LESSON DAVIS ENNISCORTHY’.

Okay left to right slop suggests market street, mill street, dublin street, glaslough street..

i think we can rule out mill street as the post office is there with its own postboxes..

junction to the right suggests market street, near the market house, or the stretch to top of dawson street…. or towards bottom of glaslough and dublin streets

Craetegus you’re going to have to go for a walk at lunchtime some day to check….

Only noticed because of this thread, but the post box out in howth opposite the Garda station is an oldie. Not in the best state either :/

And, with apologies for not putting these up remotely as soon as I said I would, here’s photos of one near UCD. A ‘posts and telegraphs’ one with that lovely cipher.

Are there many VR boxes left in the country, out of interest? Or Saorstat ones?

Just in case any of you missed Kite’s post in the Developments in Cork thread, I have attached a link of it here and reproduced the text below. Should be of interest to readers of this thread too.

https://archiseek.com/content/showpost.php?p=58705&postcount=468

The National Inventory of Architectural Heritage (NIAH) survey to Cork City Council identifies just over 2000 structures in and around the City Centre, which have been recommended for designation as Protected Structures by the Minister for the Environment, Heritage & Local Government of which approximately 500 are already included in the Record of Protected Structures (the RPS)
The NIAH inventory of Cork City identified a total of 38 post boxes within the city which have been recommended by the Minister for addition to the Record of Protected Structures. A survey has been carried out and it was found that 36 of these still survive, underlining the need for the protection of these remaining historic streetscape features. Description:
These post boxes are of two types, either wall-mounted boxes with flat fronts, or freestanding pillar boxes. They are made of cast iron and date from various eras. Many carry royal insignia on their fronts which can be used to date them as follows:
VR-Victoria Regina-c. 1859-1901.
ER VII – Edward Rex VII – 1901-1910.
GR-George Rex-1910-20.
Others carry early Irish state insignia such as the following:
SE – Saorstat Eireann – c. 1930
P & T – Posts and Telegraphs – c. 1950.
An unusual post box has both an ER to its letter-box cover and an SE to its door.

Appraisal
These post boxes have been assessed as having value as functional industrial design and are significant as a group. Not only do they demonstrate the range of changes in the decorative detail of cast-iron post boxes from Victorian times to the latter part of the twentieth century, they also chart the political changes in the governance of the country and make a distinctive contribution to the character of older urban areas. They have been accorded ‘Architectural’, ‘Artistic’, ‘Social’ and ‘Technical’ special interest in accordance with the Planning and Development Act 2000.

Why not Historical too I wonder – indeed how is Historical defined by the NIAH I wonder?

Delightful Edwardian pillar box here outside the National Museum on Kildare Street in Dublin.

The perfect middle-size pillar.

Further down at the street’s northern entrance is a large double Posts and Telegraphs box, a number of which were erected throughout the city centre at strategic locations presumably at the same time. A mirror-image position can be noted on Dawson Street, while others are to be found on St. Stephen’s Green and O’Connell Street – always at junctions with other streets.

Here is the Kildare Street box before and after its recent repainting.

Alas the box is already in almost as poor condition just months after the work was carried out, covered in dirty smears, stickers and papery residues, while the paint has been chipped off from all of the relief work to the same extent as depicted in the first image. What a shame.
Indeed mere days after the city centre boxes were painted, the vast majority were covered in stickers and graffiti. Nearly every single one. I couldn’t believe how quickly they were all defaced.

Irish Examiner 19 January 2007

Our heritage to be sealed for posterity

By Conor Ryan
MOVES are afoot to protect one of the most enduring gifts Ireland gave the British Empire.

The future of the once-red but now green pillar post box, the inspiration of an Ireland-based postal inspector, is to be secured.

Pat Ruane, Cork City’s conservation officer, said 47 pillar post boxes would be included on its list of protected structures.

“We are not only looking to protect houses and architecture but also items like post boxes that carry their own history. It is not all post boxes, just the cast metal ones that have historical value. It really says something that these are still functioning, for what they were made for. They are the type of thing you can walk past every day but when they go you know something’s missing.

“They do tell their own history. You can see through the years they carried different insignia of Queen Victoria first, then King Edward and King George, but since Irish independence you see the SÉ stamp for the Free State or the Post and Telegraph crest.”

The city’s conservation officials have also added another non-building to the list: the lime kiln in the gardens of Orchard Road which was used by the Jennings Mineral Water Company.

The preservation list includes one of the country’s oldest post boxes at Kent Station, which was installed in 1857 shortly after British Post Office began installing the free-standing boxes, which were the brainchild of Ireland-based inspector, Anthony Trollope.

He was among Britain’s leading novelists in the mid-19th century but spent most of his early working life as a postal inspector in Ireland.

His time here inspired most of his early novels and his famous invention. He wrote: “It was altogether a very jolly life that I led in Ireland. The Irish people did not murder me, nor did they break my head. I soon found them to be good- humoured, clever, economical and hospitable.”

Today his designs remain as remnants of the British Empire, but although the older boxes were originally red they were painted green after the War of Independence.

The city council is inviting people to offer their views on the proposal to protect the post boxes and other historical sites by writing to Director of Services Kevin Terry before February 28.

Saw this post box (admittedly not a post office one) in the SAS Radisson Hotel in Stillorgan recently. Quite unusual as it made out of wood. Have no idea if it is a replica although I imagine not. Have no more details on it alas…

:p Sometimes post boxes are right under your nose! I have walked past the “lost” one in Monaghan countless times without actually registering its presence. It is opposite the corner of the Market House, down a few doors from the well known Andy’s public house, and shamedly close to my place of work. I caught a glimpse of the green today out of the corner of my eye, and well when I saw the SE felt a little bemused for not seeing it all before.

It’s in pretty good condition

@ctesiphon wrote:

If you can’t read it, the text along the bottom seems to say ‘LESSON DAVIS ENNISCORTHY’.

Does it say JESSOP Davis? I can’t find anything on t’internet except a reference to a guy called Jessop who had a partner called Davis who owned an iron foundry in York, Pensylvannia.

From the Enniscorthy Trades Directory in 1931 there was a bloke called Davis T Jessop who was an Iron Founder / Engineer in St. John’s Iron Works

Yeah it’s Jessop Davis alright.
They also made water pumps I believe.

Found on a genelogical site – so might be related

THOMAS JESSOP DAVIS Of Clashleigh Clogheen Son Of T. JESSOP DAVIS Of Fairfield Enniscorthy, Died 6 August 1954.

I see from this record, that they were still in operation in the 1970s
http://www.buildingsofireland.ie/niah/search.jsp?type=record&county=ME&regno=14007054

In reply to the query which started this very interesting thread, there are indeed several “GR” versions of the old GPO pillarbox in Dublin, the most central being directly outside the old Bewley’s cafe on Westmoreland Street. These are indeed rare because fo the prolifration of Edwardian boxes which were placed in the city from 1908-1911. As has already been pointed out, the Royal Cypher was not replaced with the city seal after 1922, but with the “SE” cypher and later the “P&T” cypher. The latter is very common – the former is really only found on wall boxes and another example can be found at the corner of Booterstown and Cross Avenues.

There was a letter in the Daily Mail last week about post boxes. I couldn’t find it online, but in searching I did come across this story: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-528838/A-class-collection-190-postboxes-theyre-kept-garden.html

And I managed to hang onto the clipping of the letter anyway. If anyone wants a higher res version, let me know, but I think this should be legible.

(Apologies if it’s sideways- I changed the orientation in Photobucket but it seems not to have taken effect yet. Or maybe it’s just my cookies.)

Also, Paul- re your last post above, from past experience I’d say take the NIAH dating of boxes with a grain of salt. It’s not really the most exact of sciences, given the longevity of the designs.

Came across this VR pillar box on the platform of Portarlington’s charming Victorian train station earlier today.

for anyone who’s interested in that kind of thing.

Tidying up the memory card I stumbled across these, taken a couple of weeks ago in Kent Station in Cork.

1857, apparently.

A little bit more (slightly embellished) background on the one above in Kent Station, Cork:

http://peoplesrepublicofcork.com/index.php?name=News&file=article&sid=861

Shame the Kent Station box is surrounded by so much clutter.

@corcaighboy wrote:

Saw this post box (admittedly not a post office one) in the SAS Radisson Hotel in Stillorgan recently. Quite unusual as it made out of wood. Have no idea if it is a replica although I imagine not. Have no more details on it alas…

Up until a few days ago, there existed an old wooden post box in the Student Centre at University College Cork. It has recently been removed and replaced with a hideous plastic replacement. Unfortunately I have no image of the boxes in question, but if anybody else does, please post.

Thomas Jessop Davis (1864-1946) began his industrial career with the family-owned Saint John’s Mills (established 1858), a corn mill water mill on the outskirts of Enniscorthy which ceased operation in 1989: the derelict mill (1885) – cleared of the grain silos introduced in 1935 and 1954 – was recently the subject of a planning application for development as an apartment complex-hotel scheme.

A trained engineer, Davis opened an ironworks in the grounds of the corn mill in 1890 but moved the business to the purpose-built Saint John’s Ironworks and Foundry on the opposite side of the Urrin River in 1908. The ironworks closed down in 1962 although some of the buildings survive, again derelict.

As well as “wall box” and the rarer “lamp box” post boxes, for which the ironworks apparently superseded W.T. Allen and Co. London (fl. 1881-1955) and A. [Andrew] Handyside and Co. (fl. 1853-1933) respectively as primary suppliers, the Jessop Davis stamp is seen on manhole covers and waterpumps throughout County Wexford and the neighbouring counties.

According to the Colne Valley Postal Museum Trust in Essex http://www.cvphm.org/ForeignBoxes.html: “The Folk Museum at Daingean County Offaly has a National standard and a Penfold – both in red. These are the only red boxes left south of the 1922 border. Collins Barracks outstation of National Museum of Ireland has the only surviving Ashworth of Burnley PB1, whilst the only Economy London Ornate is to be found inside Kent Railway Station in Cork.”

I have noticed in recent days that several of the wall boxes in the Belfield area seem to be now out of service, with a piece of wood blocking the letter slot. Looks like some have been out of use for some time. Is there a plan to reduce / remove wall boxes?

There are no prominent signs applied to indicate whether this is a permanent or a temporary measure, indeed there is just a scrawl on one box. Neither is there any indication of where close by in service boxes still are, for customers.

one of those hexagonal boxs was out in bray near the garda station until about a month ago when a council van backed into it smashing it to bits

Re: post boxes, is anybody familiar with the old post office in Donabate, Co. Dublin. This is now a barber shop but there are still two post boxes (wall type) there less than 10 feet apart. I was wondering is there any story behind the boxes, what type the boxes are etc.

The barber shop was featured in a programme about the recession on TV3 which is when I spotted the boxes, I think at least one of them is a VR. I googled the barbers and found this
http://www.daft.ie/searchcommercial.daft?id=45317

@trace wrote:

According to the Colne Valley Postal Museum Trust in Essex http://www.cvphm.org/ForeignBoxes.html: “The Folk Museum at Daingean County Offaly has a National standard and a Penfold – both in red. These are the only red boxes left south of the 1922 border.

There’s a postbox in red in the Bunratty Folk Park, Co. Clare.

@Pilear wrote:

one of those hexagonal boxs was out in bray near the garda station until about a month ago when a council van backed into it smashing it to bits

What a shame. 🙁 I don’t suppose you know if they kept it or have plans to reinstate it? (Long shot, I know.) Maybe if I offer them a few quid…

Still, I can cross it off my list all the same. I think that means there’s only one left to find.

Got this the other day- Everything you ever wanted to know…etc. I guess that’s one less book I have to write. 😉

http://www.associatededitions.ie/books.html#Postbox

I’m quite certain that box has also been photographed by me – I’ve got it on a 35mm slide. It is located on the southern shore of the Beara Peninsula and is on a cut-down telegraph pole sticking up through a hedge.
Annoyingly my scanner does not have carriers for flim or transparencies.
KB2

Well, An post continue to be a bunch of c**ts.

This beauty on Dartmouth Square, was mentioned in the Dublin City Council Conservation Area Plan: “An attractive Victorian cast iron pillar post box is located on the south side of the square and should be protected“.

And in its place given us this:

Seriously, what is wrong with this country? Does any give a f**k?

I understand they are closing post boxes for costs, but could this box not be preserved as a drop box instead of that ugly yoke?