Office blocks @ Kilmainham Gaol & Royal Hospital

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  • #705248
    John Callery
    Participant

    DISCUSSION POINT.

    SENSITIVE ARCHITECTURE OPPOSITE
    A NATIONAL MONUMENT !!!

    Ref: Proposed Kilmainham Offices & Technology “Park” !!
    Inchicore Road, Kilmainham (Presently Nestle/ Rowntree Site).
    By CHARMSIDE( Treasury Holdings) DEVELOPMENTS.
    Planning Ref: 2467/00

    MACRO OFFICE BLOCK development. These MACRO = (Huge)
    (Charmside’s own term) OFFICE BLOCKS are NOT what should be built or even GIVEN CONSIDERATION right IN FRONT of Dublin’s premier and Ireland’s most visited heritage site Kilmainham Gaol & Museum standing only 3 miles west of the city centre.

    Let’s examine the figures for the site:

    Office space = 36,453 sq metres = 392,380 sq ft.
    Retail space = 450 sq metres = 4,843 sq ft.
    Ratio of 98.9% office space to 1.2% retail.

    This miniscule amount of retail space is surely destined to become “office supply units” if this MACRO development, God forbid is ever built.

    Yes this site requires development (but not this) as it has evolved from a chocolate factory (Rowntree Mackintosh) into now a storage area for Nestle products, Kit Kat bars etc. Over the last few years we the residents of Kilmainham have happily seen the numbers of tourists entering our area increase in great numbers due to the presence of Kilmainham Gaol, Royal Hospital & The Memorial Park. What brings them to the area primarily is the presence of Kilmainham Gaol on Inchicore Road. Every tourist to Dublin who takes a bus tour is aware of the Jail and its location.

    They come in droves (last count 130,000 last year) to see this fine museum the most popular heritage site in Ireland, attendance figures published in last Sunday’s papers. The tourists then stand aimlessly or lean against the walls of the Nestle site opposite Kilmainham Jail when their visit to the museum is over .
    They then walk to the bus stop on Emmet Road and stand in packs awaiting the 78 or 51 bus to take them out of the district and back to the city centre. Those with transport exit the district on their tour buses (if they can be parked, a coach parking space is badly required opposite the Jail) or in cars, as there is nowhere adjacent to the Jail for them (or us)to mix / relax or buy a heritage book (bookshop), an Irish art piece, enjoy a meal (restaurant) or any attraction or local focal point to entice them to stay and spend their morning or afternoon exploring the many other historical sites in the district. This focal point NOW exists and is directly opposite the Jail i.e. the Nestle site!!

    This massive site has the potential and is THE PERFECT SITE in the district for a heritage centre for to provide tourist amenities for the district of Kilmainham/ Inchicore if not the City of Dublin. It should provide local and tourist amenities in the form of bookshops, restaurants etc. Also to include what the district badly requires a hotel to be built to accommodate tourists and provide local and tourist amenities in the form of an information centre, conference rooms, bookshops, restaurants and a meeting point (all having traditional shop fronts) etc for local residents and tourists alike. Enter any small town in rural Ireland and you will be directed or will soon find a tourist Information centre. Enter Kilmainham Inchicore and not as much as a leaflet relating to the area is to be found.

    The architectural style of these much needed developments must compliment sensitively the presence of Kilmainham Gaol, the Court House & the Richmond Tower. Certainly NOT TO OUTSCALE in a MACRO fashion these local / national landmarks and the Victorian housing of Inchicore Road and the SCR. Not only is the scale of this development not in tune with its surroundings but also its function and purpose is totally wrong opposite the Jail – offices and technology. Offices and technology parks are required but in purpose built estates on the periphery of the city not here in Old Dublin / Kilmainham. A development in scale with the Jail, Court House and Richmond Tower is required here i.e. A SUBSTANTIAL TOURIST / HERITAGE DEVELOPMENT to blend WITH THE SURRONDINGS. Contemporary architecture could support the traditional Victorian housing along with Kilmainham Gaol, the Court House and Richmond Tower once it’s in scale and its function is appropriate.

    The only part of Charmside’s proposal that reflects a public/tourist awareness is the supposed building of a “Public Square” and yet they state that there is no guarantee (outside their control) of this (Trojan Horse) ever being laid even if the MACRO development God forbid is ever built. The “Public Square” is not even part of the site so they need have no concern that it may be paved across the SCR and Inchicore Road . Some hope of a public square being built on these main arteries (the old Slighe Mor & Slighe Dala ways of ancient times) out of the city considering the traffic plans or lack of same over the coming years!! The “Public Square” WILL NEVER HAPPEN, WE ALL KNOW IT. I’m more concerned about the greater possibility of the MACRO BLOCKS being built. The sun will never shine or the rain will never fall on the peoples “Public Square” unless the residents form their own public square by sitting down in the middle of the road to protest against this proposed monstrosity. They did it in 1988 to save the Spire of St. Jude’s (that lies in the shadow of Kilmainham Jail) from a demolition crew in the employment of Robert Guinness.

    The main body of St. Jude’s now stands in Straffan (for all intent and purposes as an Inchicore “heritage centre”!!) containing among other things prototype model trains built by the Inchicore Engineers and railway artefacts from the Victorian Inchicore Railway works ( Great Southern and Western Railways). What a great tourist attraction was pulled from its roots only to be “reinstated” in a non-industrial, non-tourist area.

    To quote from Charmside’s own commissioned
    “Environmental Impact Statement”:

    “Kilmainham Jail is a landmark building in Dublin together with The Royal Hospital and Con Colbert Road. It forms a distinct mental node in one’s mental map of the city. This will be further enhanced ON A MACRO SCALE by provision of the proposed development that will ENLIVEN a former industrial site.”

    “ ..the proposed blocks will rise gradually to 6 storeys..”

    Charmside’s further charm offensive lists all the historical events and even the most notable people associated with Kilmainham down the centuries are resurrected to endorse these totally speculative office blocks. This development if even built to half its proposed scale has the potential of becoming the greatest “negative externality” built in the city (due to its location alone) this century. The function of the development built opposite Kilmainham Jail must reflect the importance of the Jail to our district, Dublin and the nation. This issue will exceed local concerns and must become one of national if not international (Irish America / London Irish) importance.

    They unwittingly state a major negative here and its LOUD and clear this development is going to be SO BIG that the most exact / appropriate word to describe their proposal is rightly as they say MACRO!!

    There is all fancy talk in the EIS about Maigneann our Monk, our local flora, Viking remains, Strongbow , Brian Boru having camped in the district before his defeat of the Danes in 1014, the arrival of the Normans to Kilmainham and The Knight Templers . They have all the events and characters of local and national history here to build a successful theme park at least.

    What a great history they have suddenly learned, which we as locals are already fully aware of, and wish to share our great history / architecture of the district with all on a most perfect site i.e. opposite Kilmainham Gaol. There is even a breakdown (in the EIS) of the constituent gases making up our atmosphere!! WHAT BALDERDASH !! We don’t want our atmosphere and our Jail polluted by the presence of these blocks. Also some lovely photos of our village and the Pheonix Park. Photos taken from the Magazine showing today’s lovely view. All postcard shots of our district as it exists at present. It’s the future views that I can envisage already in 3 D form from all aspects and distances that I know is so wrong for Kilmainham and its Jail Enough said by CHARMSIDE on their “charm offensive” to develop / push these MACRO OFFICE BLOCKS upon us and future generations.
    What a SMOKESCREEN is this EIS report!!
    What concerns us as Kilmainham / Inchicore residents is THE FUTURE and these MACRO BLOCKS. This site is also included in the Integrated Area Plan for the district and thereby could avail of lucrative tax incentives (public monies). This is ALL THE MORE REASON that any development on this site should be driven by the needs of the local community and the requirements / facilities that tourists,
    (ever increasing in numbers ) would expect visiting Ireland’s most visited heritage site in the most historic yet also so neglected part of the city. An ideal opportunity now presents itself for the city authorities to ameliorate the mistakes and neglect of the past.

    In the context of the city’s history, Inchicore Road and the Jail are unique. Every era in the development of Dublin is reflected here, either in some building or feature or by association. All the key developments which shaped the modern world in history and politics are represented in the area. We have some of the greatest attractions for the serious tourist to Dublin i.e. Royal Hospital, Bully’s Acre, Richmond Tower, Memorial Park what remains of the Richmond Barracks /the Railway Works and all where the waters flow of the Liffey, Camac, and the Grand Canal. As I said this site is of national importance. If the nation could buy for posterity the Guinness mansion in the Park could not this site in front of Kilmainham Jail also be bought by state intervention to enhance the presence and importance of Kilmainham Gaol to the nation.

    To quote from Dublin Corporations own Integrated Area Plan magazine “Link in” Volume 1- Issue 1- Summer 2000 :

    The Plan calls for the development of the following:

     A Public domain strategy for the Village and extending along Emmet road to the South Circular Road

     A conceptual strategy focusing on identifying and developing linkages, to and within the area and PARTICULARLY building on the opportunities provided by adjacent ATTRACTIONS of NATIONAL importance.

    Look what a success Smithfield has been with it’s tourist facilities reflecting the presence of the old original Jameson Distillery now like the Jail a Museum. A nearly exact parallel development like which has positively transformed Smithfield is required opposite Kilmainham Gaol. This development in Kilmainham to be driven as Smithfield’s development has by the Corporations own IAP- with the important and most essential distinction that Kilmainham Jail and its surroundings are of national importance. The revitalised Dublin Corporation, with its integrated area plan for Smithfield has worked so effectively on the Northside (amenities built around the presence of the Jameson Museum, hotel etc) our IAP will and must produce the same results for Inchicore / Kilmainham and right here opposite our Museum, Kilmainham Gaol.

    There is a very wide range of architectural styles and types in the area. Within the single entity of Kilmainham / Inchicore, some of the leading architects of earlier eras are represented. Below are some of those names whose work stands here today:

    Sir William Robinson – Royal Hospital Kilmainham.
    Sancton Wood – Kingsbridge (Hueston) Station.
    Sancton Wood – Railway Tower in CIE (now a heritage office).
    Thomas Burgh – Dr. Steven’s Hospital.
    Francis Johnson – Richmond Tower.
    Sir Edwin Lutyens – Great War Memorial Park.
    George Semple – St. Patrick’s Hospital.
    Welland & Gillespie- St. Jude’s Church (Spire).
    Andrew Devane (founder of RKD) – Inchicore VEC School.

    These great architects and the history of their buildings would require a significant heritage site alone opposite the Jail.

    This site lies opposite Dublin’s Bastille, Kilmainham Gaol – go to Paris and see how the area (very neglected only some 15 years go) opposite and surrounding where the Bastille once stood has been developed, the city’s modern opera hall, restaurants, art-shops etc. this district of Paris has BEEN ENLIVENED greatly by appropriate developments and this enlivened ambience lasts long into the evening and the night and all due to “the ghost of the Bastille”.

    The history of the Bastille reverberates of the other and in the other appropriate developments surrounding this historic district of Paris. i.e. the magnificent contemporary designed opera hall, restaurants, art shops and bookshops. The atmosphere come the evening, among the Parisians and tourists looking up at the Bastille opera hall all aglow with lights as one enjoys a meal and a bottle of wine in a nearby restaurant has to be experienced. This ambience would permeate the length of Inchicore Road, Kilmainham when similar amenities are planned and built opposite Kilmainham Gaol.

    All developments in the Bastille district are appropriate having been planned and built to serve and attract tourists to the area and also to reflect the importance of the former prison to Paris and the French people – WHY SHOULD WE BE DIFFERENT or worse INDIFFERENT especially as we unlike the French still have our Jail

    The French would never allow A MACRO OFFICE DEVELOPMENT to cast its long shadow across their Bastille district. The City authorities in Paris have fully exploited the great tourist attraction of the long gone Bastille for the benefit of the local economy and the surrounding area that was once neglected like Inchicore / Kilmainham is presently. There is a great lesson here to be learned from Paris and the French, as we fortunately still have the presence of Kilmainham Gaol to plan and build around. The French would shake their heads if they saw what was proposed here for Kilmainham.

    Unlike Paris, Dublin will always have its Bastille, Kilmainham Gaol, let’s plan and build (with the objectives of Dublin’s Corporation own Integrated Area Plan for the area) like the French around its presence as a great tourist attraction and so important district in the nation’s history. This site opposite the Jail has to become a site for cultural / heritage events and provide the amenities so lacking at present for tourist and Dubliner alike.

    Kilmainham if it were in Paris would be part of the “Isle de France” or in Germany the “Alt–Stat”. Every capital city in continental Europe protects and cherishes its “Old Town”. Kilmainham should have been protected and developed as the Old Towns have been on the Continent. Just stroll along Old Kilmainham Road and view the sites i.e. Burmah Oil Garage, O’Reilly Electrical, Kilmainham Motors, Camac Cars, Wheels Motorcycles, City Gas, Des Donnelly Motors, Dublin Providers and the Massive James’s Hospital Boilerhouse right on the Old Road. Could not a more appropriate location for this essential facility being found on the massive site that is St. James’s. Such a sight I have never seen / would not be allowed anywhere in Europe, East or West. Essentially a mixture of mickey mouse and big business outfits who only abuse and use the Old Road and old buildings (if they survive) as private car parks. They have already ensured that the LUAS will never pass through the centre of Inchicore / Kilmainham only to protect their private parking facility.

    They the owners don’t live in or care about the district. Business’s have to exist but in appropriate purpose built office and industrial estates. Travel to Bruges in Belgium
    (Western Europe) or Debrovnic in Croatia (Eastern Europe) to see how old towns/cities are protected and cherished. Dublin will never be in the same league as its too late but the situation has improved if only over the last number of years. Kilmainham is / has the making of a unique “Alt-Stat” if the right buildings / conversions are planned / restricted to tourist, cultural and housing requirements.

    Integrated Area Planners and Architects for Inchicore / Kilmainham, you only have one chance to get this right. A quite magnificent opportunity now presents itself to you don’t squander it and by doing so make amends for the past destruction and neglect of the area by the planners of the past most of whom had no sense of heritage or little interest in Old Dublin or its people. Let you show the difference and mark a line in the sand for all to see. A heavy burden will rest on your shoulders (as planners and protectors of our place) if this goes wrong and we the present residents (and future generations) of Kilmainham / Inchicore will have to live with and look at whatever is built on this site for the rest of our lives. Do THE RIGHT THING for our district , DUBLIN CITY and the NATION. Insist to Charmside that this site realise its so obvious potential and also its economic potential, as a great cultural / recreational area for Dubliners and tourists alike.

    The area still suffers from the bad planning and architecture of the past (with all its social ills and consequences) i.e. the building of St. Michael’s Estate. What a further historical site was lost / demolished when the lovely old stone buildings of the former Richmond Barracks were torn down to be replaced by the flats now thankfully planned themselves for demolition. This site is where the 1916 leaders were detained (in the old gymnasium, thankfully still intact) and court-marshalled before their transfer along Emmet Road to their executions in Kilmainham Jail.
    This history should be commemorated (when this part of the IAP is rebuilt) in my opinion by the “rebuilding” of the old arch that once stood as the main entrance into Richmond Barracks opposite Mc Dowells. Pictures of this arch are to be seen on the walls of Mc Dowells / Richmond House.

    The developments in nearby Bow Bridge and Bow Lane that were driven needlessly by tax breaks have turned out and are known locally as Kilmainham’s “Benidorm Blocks” – a lovely tranquil old rural village atmosphere and walk that ran along Old Kilmainham Lane (in the heart of the city) disappeared practically overnight, please get this site right.

    What will the massive crowds think when they throng the district in 2016. One hundred years on from the 1916 Rebellion if the Jail is OUTSCALED (and reduced of its rightful architectural dominance of the area) and by then (2016) still no focal point to congregate, after all the ceremonies on the 100th anniversary of the Rebellion, due to the presence of these by then 15 year old empty (office hours only) MACRO BLOCKS. Dublin planners and councillors again I implore YOU ALL think long and hard before you even consider this proposal the people will not forget. We have already lost to the area the potential tourist sites, by-ways and one time local facilities of:

     All the fine old lodge houses that once stood on Inchicore Road. The road now used as a general industrial car park by Sierra Communications JCBs vans and trucks.

     The old mills along the Camac now occupied by the Metropolitan Industrial Estate with access down an old lane no wider than a cart.

     The Methodist “railway” Church on Tyreconnell Road (demolished by a JCB at 3am on a Sunday in 1994).

     St. Jude’s ”railway” Church that once stood adjacent to the Jail demolished in 1988 only to be “rebuilt in a form” 30 miles away in Straffan as a “heritage centre”, essentially of our railway industrial past.

     A potential transport museum up in THE WORKS (now lost and destined for Mullingar!!). Inchicore’s finest steam engines now thankfully restored and saved by the wise men of the North and today on view in the Ulster Transport Museum.

     The old stone buildings of the Richmond Barracks (of great historical significance).

     Much of Old Kilmainham Lane, over built with apartments.

     Much of Old Kilmainham Road, cluttered with ad-hoc businesses.

     The Irish Permanent, EBS and AIB packed and gone from Inchicore village.

     The original and required route of the LUAS derailed from the area.

    Again I say help the old district / village.

    Fortunately for Kilmainham this proposed development coincides with the first few months of the areas Integrated Area Plan objectives being published. This development by its proposed location alone fails the stated criteria of the IAP. It fails on all counts, which are primarily to enhance the environment and protect / contribute to the district’s heritage by promoting tourism in Inchicore / Kilmainham particularly adjacent to attractions of national importance.

    Thrusting you will give ample thought and consideration to the above as a very important but obvious decision must be made considering this huge site opposite Kilmainham Gaol a place so important in Dublin’s and our nation’s history. Kilmainham has now reached a turning point in its so varied and chequered history, the point at which significant renewal for the benefit of the district its people and its tourists can be realised. Let what is to be built on this site demonstrate this to all. There can be no excuses if this site is allowed to be turned into MACRO OFFICE BLOCKS due to MACRO ECONOMICS , thus denying our district its rightful long due appropriate rejuvenation as outlined in the IAP for Kilmainham / Inchicore.

    Yours sincerely,

    JOHN CALLERY.

    #718396
    MG
    Participant

    can we have a synopsis please

    #718397
    GregF
    Participant

    I’m familar with Kilmainham as being from Ballyfermot I used to pass through it very regularly on my way to town. It is an area with great potential with the historic ‘Gaol’, courthouse, viking cemetary and Royal Hospital as it’s centre pieces. An appropriate and sympathic development is really needed here. I remember in the late 80’s/early 90’s they reconstructed and enlarged a petrol station/garage right beside the jail and right across the road fom the (Francis Johnston,I think) castle-like entrance to the RHK. Although pratical and needed the petrol station looks misplaced and well…….crap. Only recently too they pulled down a quaint little Victorian-like red brick cottage close by that had been in ruins for years.A proper planning and development system is greatly needed here for the village to blossom at it’s full potential.

    #718398
    GregF
    Participant

    …….but to add an appropriate and well thought out design is needed….no run of the mill sub-urban industrial estate like office blocks or offensive pastiche mock-ups.

    #718399
    seamas
    Participant

    this is an ABSOLUTE DISGRACE

    i’m suprised they’re not going to build another “Milennium Spike” right next to Kilmainham gaol. and why not??? they want to put one beside the GPO

    #718400
    seamas
    Participant

    couch-potato-callery
    that’s quite an essay you wrote there john callery…but again, what are you going to do about it? sadly, you’re just an armchair activist.
    i agree with you, and yes i do think the paramilitaries and the disidents need to accept responsibility for these matters, as the rest of us are far too busy

    #718401
    John Callery
    Participant

    Seamus, what’s proposed for to face Kilmainham Gaol and the other great stone icons of Kilmainham would not be allowed by any city authority in any other capital city in Europe – the Corpo keep saying “well it’s private property” let them start saying to Treasuty Holdings NO NO NO – and remind them that “property has its rewards and also its responsibilities” .

    visit http://www.kilmainham-gaol.com if you wish to help.

    #718402
    -Donnacha-
    Participant

    Can we see the proposed dreaded architecture??? Words alone make decisions
    difficult

    #718403
    Rory W
    Participant

    What a dull website that Kilmanham-Gaol one is.

    and
    Seamus stop your spike bashing

    #718404
    John Callery
    Participant

    Ian Ritchie’s magnificent Spire would be more than welcomed by all in Kilmainham to stand opposite the Old Gaol – to be surrounded by the work of Sir William Robinson’s ( Royal Hospital), Francis Johnston’s ( Richmond Tower ), Mc Cauley’s
    ( East Wing of the Gaol ) and Sir Edwin Lutyens Great War Memorial Park – somehow Anto Reddy’s speculative office blocks !! does not ring right or seem to fit in here with the aforementioned great historical stone icons.

    #718405
    kburns
    Participant

    Must put the trainspotter’s anorak on here- East Wing Kilmainham Gaol- John Mc Curdy was the architect, not Mc Cauley. Also did the refurbishment & present facade of the Shelbourne Hotel.

    On the subject of your campaign ever thought that there might be modern archeology around the proposed blocks? Before Neslte- and probably way before that again- the house of the govenor of the Gaol stood there. There may be a tunnel running under the road way connecting with the prison.

    I do agree though that you should show a few images of what’s proposed.

    #718406
    John Callery
    Participant

    Updated web site on Kilmainham Gaol:

    Visit the new improved http://www.kilmainham-gaol.com

    View model “of development of renewal” (Minimum population of these 3 Macro Blocks, will be 4000 transient office workers) – along with 500 parking spaces (where are the other thousand cars + to park ?). Also 2 sub floors planned into this ancient site (an enormous blackhole to be excavated here). OK if something positive was to emerge to enhance all that stands here, but for this (sub-urban LEGO) to loom over all and in particular the residents in the Victorian houses to the east and west is criminal in such an ancient and historical place – the actual elevated site where Brian Boru camped the evening before the Battle of Clontarf in 1014 and also the ancient place of St. John’s Well.

     2 subfloors at least
     6 rising “gradually”
     Another on top for AHUs and CWSTs – ( 9 floors in total)

    The magnificent views from this site opposite the Jail are so unique to Kilmainham and are deserving of an architectural competition for a landmark/gateway building into Kilmainham.

    A building of utmost architectural excellence is demanded here.

     North- the great expanse of the Pheonix Park and a near mirror image of the Jail itself the 18th century Arsenal / Magazine Fort on the northern horizon and on the same elevation as the Nestle site.

     East- the ancient walls of Bully’s Acre and the only high rise feature we wish to see the Clock Tower of the Royal Hospital.

     West- the Victorian residences of Inchicore Road, the “newest developments” around the Nestle site and constructed over a 100 years ago. Also the 100 year old trees standing like sentries along the length of the road.

     South – the Court House (another building that should be providing amenities for us and tourists) instead of screaming villains being pulled daily in front of tourists and ourselves from the back of Garda cars. And on this elevation what has to remain the dominant building Kilmainham Jail itself.

    After reading last sunday’s Irish Business Post in which a very pertinent letter from New York was published concerning “the eternal waste of the Nestle Site” if even one storey of offices is allowed to be built, we are even more determined to let our opinions be made clear to Treasury Holdings.

    We know that John Ronan and Richard Barret are intelligent hardworking businessmen. We also think that they must be ignorant / unaware of how this community here views their proposals (speculative office blocks) for our historic place. This is not just any old green field site as they seem to think. They have planned and totally ignored us and all the great protected monuments that surround this site. They must pretend their blind and that we and Kilmaimham Jail are just an inconvenience that will eventually fade away!!! Their arrogance is astounding.
    They obviously don’t appreciate or understand our sense of place and identity – and what they propose is like a red flag to a raging bull. It would be sacrilege to us if office blocks are built on this site in any shape or form. They appear to us as yet another invader hoping to pillage Kilmainham and are no different to the Vikings , Normans or English who only came to our place for gain, profit or worse retribution. We are a proud and historic people here in Inchicore and Kilmainham and we only wish for even half of what we see working so successfully around a whiskey museum in the IAP for Smithfield and it’s community.

    “This development stems from detailed discussions with the senior architects and planners of Dublin Corporation” so the developers agent
    (Frank Benson) informs us in his EIS report. First great act of renewal in the Corpo’s IAP for Kilmainham is LEGO blocks and the ruination of this magnificent site.

    This development has being planned as if this site was off the M50 or in a field off the Nass Road – “client brief”- Anto, shoehorn in as much rental space as possible across the site down into the ground and up into the air and pretend that the residents, thousands of tourists, heritage, history and all the great architecture that surrounds this site DOES NOT EXIST !!!

    #718407
    John Callery
    Participant

    HOW DARE THE OLD GAOL CAST ITS SHADOW ACROSS KILMAINHAM AND THE MACRO BLOCKS !!!


    Original Message


    From: Tom R. Phillips
    Subject: Kilmainham Gaol Dublin

    > Dear Mr Callery
    >
    > We act as Planning Consultants for the proposed development. I note
    > from the Planning Files at Dublin Corporation and from the letters page
    > of the Irish Voice your correspondence on this issue.
    >
    > I am concerned that some of the statements you make are at odds with the
    > facts of the scheme. For example, the Gaol is located south of the
    > scheme. Therefore the proposal has shadow cast upon it by the Gaol, not
    > the other way around. Similarly, your correspondence does not take into
    > account the current and long-standing industrial use of the site as a
    > Chocolate Factory.
    >
    > We held two meetings with local residents in June at the Ashling Hotel
    > to outline the scheme prior to lodgement to Dublin Corporation.
    >
    > We have also met with senior officials of Duchas – the Heritage Service
    > who are vested with the care of Kilmainham Gaol.
    >
    > The scheme as submitted stems from detailed discussions with senior
    > planners and architects at Dublin Corporation, and the developer is
    > fully commited to the realisation of the planning gain elements.
    >
    > We will be holding another public meeting shortly for
    > local residents to which we will extend you an invitation. We would
    > welcome the opportunity to discuss the scheme with you.
    >
    > I would like to correct the record in terms of your correspondence with
    > the Irish Voice so that any letters of representation stem from correct
    > information.
    >
    > I look forward to meeting with you at the public meeting.
    >
    > With regards
    >
    > Tom R. Phillips
    >
    >

    #718408
    GregF
    Participant

    ………but please don’t jeopardize the full potential development of this site. This really sounds like panic stations. You may remember too that there was once a manufacturing chocolate factory here before the current warehouse/storehouse. An apparment scheme sounds fine. The city must develop….it would be awful if a mediocre pastiche ensemble were ereccted too.

    [This message has been edited by GregF (edited 30 December 2000).]

    #718409
    Papworth
    Participant

    What is proposed after viewing the model on http://www.kilmainham-gaol.com seems to me medicore and insignificent(except in scale) office blocks. I dont think Smithfield has been jeoprdised by its appropriate development – the deserved development of this site would be achieved by similar tourist driven developments, especially as a new meca for tourists has opened in the district of Dublin 8 the new Guinness Storehouse.. What’s in jeopardy here is the diminishing of the rightfull dominance of Kilmainham Gaol on Inchicore Road.

    #718410
    John Callery
    Participant

    Latest news from Kilmainham is that Sile De Velera is anxious after she shifts Mr Mc Gonagle as curator of IMMA (cue presently under way) that she intends moving the IMMA to “the more fashionable docklands” this is a prelude to the opening up of the ancient lands of the Royal Hospital for “renewal and development”- more LEGO to be built- now in the grounds of the Royal Hospital-we always suspected that these massive inner city grounds would have “progressive developers” wishing – “if only we could get in there” the way is being planned and without a doubt we shall read of some great plan of renewal to facilitate them in and over the wall from Kilmainham Gaol when the vacation of the IMMA is announced.

    #718411
    Rory W
    Participant

    Well the Royal Hospital was never really suitable for a museum of Modern Art. Modern Art needs huge blank areas cf Tate Modern, not small rooms that used to be old soldiers quarters. I wouldnt be surprised if they moved to Stack A in the IFSC.

    What now for the Royal Hospital I wonder – new headquarters for the Department of Arts, Culture and the Gaeltacht!?!?!?! especially since the plan for the other one was turned down by Charlie McCreevey.

    Makes you think doesn’t it.

    #718412
    Papworth
    Participant

    ..certainly does..i also overheard in the back room of ye royal oak (very reliable venue) that another possibility for the grounds of the RHK could be wait for it a temporary?? park and ride location until the infrastructure inproves !! – parking for the 4000 office workers in the macro blocks maybe ?? .. but geeting back to the macro blocks. “this site was once a choclate factory”…SO WHAT.. what’s the point here??? look at the model.. a space station is presently being planned for this site..smithfield was once all derelict factories..look now and how modern irish architects have designed and worked so well there. Can you imagine the macro blocks with the lights on!!and bearthed (forever) in the face of the gaol and the royal hospital in a district that has the finest examples of victorian, georgian and remnants of monastic and viking settlement dating back to the 7th C…this “THING” looming at the jail is alien,of no benifit to the district..it will actually negate and set tourism back in kilmainham..its proposterous and architecturally off the wall in every respect for such a location- its totally wrong in every sence of the word and its supposed to be part of the iap by DC!!. Contempory architecture could work and make this site if some architectural vision is demanded by the city planners “..if its appropriate and a well thought out design..” as Greg has rightly previously stated.

    #718413
    Papworth
    Participant

    ….and to add let them leave the IMMA in kilmainham and build it opposite the gaol..

    #718414
    John Callery
    Participant

    View architectural sketches and read global comments on Ronan and Barret’s latest proposal’s (through the good agency of their servant architect) for opposite Kilmainham Gaol and The Royal Hospital.

    Any comments…. “Come on Bolton St. lead the way” …you were never known to a quiet retiring band of architects/conservatives in my student days.

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