New Public Space for Docklands

Its funny they are obviously testing out the slanted red poles because they put one up at the corner by the main road; one on its own slanted, I thought it had been hit by a car or something and was trying to work out how, but it makes sense now and the redness of it is very impressive.

The picture looks nice if a little busy, but, as is now the norm, they have taken a bit of a dock; for a docklands authority they really can’t stand open areas of water.

All the people in the picture; what are they doing do you think, its evening so maybe they are on the way to a concert but I hope they didn’t arrive early expecting to eat; the big problem with this as a public space is the single use edge buildings, a hotel on one side, the Leibskind building on another, I guess they’ll both have eateries and bars and an office block on the third. The Lincoln Centre is a bit like this, a lovely public space surrounded by in my view really beautiful auditoria and then not so much else so you tend to go, meet your date, see the opera and then back on the train north or south.

Notice the much more revealing picture of the Leibskind building; its a big blank box with a Leibskind motif in the form of the impressive atrium.

I do like this – a nice splash of colour instead of the usual grey and stainless steel.

More please.

The skateboarders should like it anyway!

The amusing thing about this is that there’s already a quite elaborate public space there, which will now be replaced – amunition for DDDA-bashers if they ever wanted it!! 🙂

Nice also to see a bit of green running through the new one.

Where exactly in GCD is this going to be? Trying to find it on Google Earth.. what road is it near?

I like this as well. The green area does look good and the red certainly stands out.

Morlan as I understand it the glass building to the left of the picture is joined on its other side to the apartment block which fronts both the gcd and pearse st. ie, this is along the west side of gcd with the hotel on the north of the square. the experimental red pole and sample red paving are located on the nw of that bridge they are going to replace.

Got it now, thanks.

The image of what’s proposed looks really cool.

The “lighting” poles have a distinctly Chinese feel (like those small garden candles you can get at the Asia Store). The image is still cheesy.

10 out of ten for the DDDA on this

One thing to note about the plan, according to Shane O’Toole in the Sunday Times, is that the piece jutting out into the dock does not yet have permission. The ‘inland navigable waterways’ are not within the DDDA’s remit. They are controlled by Waterways Ireland who still have to give permission for that element of the square.

Shane O’Toole’s ST article

Im sure that wont be a huge issue…its not a particularly large piece anyhow. I think the scheme looks great and to think the Abbey could have had all this by 2008 if they’d have accepted the DDDAs offer and not got lost in the political machinations. I think we’ll be lucky to see the new Abbey before 2012….in fact a 2016 project would be more realistic. But back to GCD. There are plenty of ground floor retail and restuarant units built into the new builds on the dock. All it takes is a few brave entrepeneurs I guess.

More illustrations
http://www.irish-architecture.com/news/2006/000014.html

Doesnt Ringsend look lovely.,… no flats or low grade highrises. Juts a simple almost pastoral scene

Those renderings are the business. It’s quite futuristic. This will be superb when completed. About time something like this happened down the docks, and a big international name involved too. More pleeze! The DDA have to be complemented in this case.

This area of the city’s landscape will have a few contemporary and visually striking jewels if they come to fruition. There will be this Libeskind piece, the curved glass roof of the new Lansdowne Road, the glass cylindered NCC and the twisting U2 tower. Quite a good little collection of modern landmarks. Include too the glass covered gasometer, the Point Depot makeover and the proposed new Abbey, whatever form it takes.

I like the extra pictures that were posted and I have to say it’s a great idea. I quite like it. It would certainly be a place I’d enjoy visiting. It should go well with the other plans for the area. It gets a thumbs up from me. It should look great at night according to those images.

the images are quite seductive. I like the colour and space projecting into
the river (although why is it skewed?), I think this could break down the
barrier between river and city to some extent (are they going to close off
the Liffey to stop the the tide? is that what im seeing to the right of the
image?)

I think libeskind is the weakest link in this one. his building (although an
improvement on the farcical earlier images) is a crying disgrace and screams
‘branded icon’. it looks like he has spent about 1 hour on the design and
someone from his office has overlaid the standard pattern on the roof. Im
concerned we’ll end up with a building of the same quality as his one on
Holloway rd in London. what relevance do the skewed lines have to the
dockhands, or in london or in a Denver shopping centre?

the Aries Mateus building looks like it has great potential could be one of
the best buildings in Dublin for a few years if its pulled off.

It seems to be the same sort of material as this used in Newcastle.
http://www.hughpearman.com/articles3/blue.html

I agree what?, that if the Mateus building comes off, it could ba fabulous piece. The whole square now has the chance to beome a fabulous public space – although will the DDDA treat it like their other “public” spaces, essentially private property?

Surely the banal building on the left ( the one fronting Pearse) is the weak point.

The libeskind is very interesting and should be a draw.

Provided it doesn’t fall over, of course.

at least the banal building on the left and the Mateus hotel can age and participate in the urban situation where libeskind’s inarticulate icon of apathy will never be able to do anything but dominate this space for better or worse.

it may look good when its brand new and in vouge (although in my opinion is that it already looks dated) but in a couple of years, when this kind of wilfull formal gymnastics is no longer trendy this building will scream louder than anyone wants it to.

Im not totally against libeskind, the jewish museum is a very impressive building, but he had 10 years to design that and has not produced anything approaching it in design integrity or sophistication since. especially not here.

The Imperial War Museum is quite impressive too.

It looks very impressive alright. The red carpet is extremely naff, to be quite honest, but i like the notion of it extending into the dock..the possibility of starts/dignitaries arriving to the concert hall by water is a very attractive notion, though perhaps not envisaged.

There was to be another “tall” building going up down in the south docks but was blocked by Nimbys. Would have been beside the old grain silo.

http://www.ireland.com/newspaper/property/2005/0203/2673775489RPARCFRANK.html

Would have added to the area, I thought. Good design too.

Can we keep the tall buildings discussion to the Dublin Skyline thread? fergalr- in a nutshell, if you looked at that one you’d see that the issue isn’t simply Nimbys and the IGS opposed to height at all costs.

Based on the link posted by Paul, I wonder just how red the red carpet will be- it seems that the quantity of glass in the mix is limited by structural considerations, so just as in Newcastle, where the blueness of the ‘carpet’ was debated, we might end up with a pink carpet rather than a red one. Or perhaps a Mateus Rosé carpet? 😮

What sort of shops will they have here I wonder?

ctesiphon – as mentioned above, there seems to be a same of the red paving down on the corner by pearse street along with a sample of the red pole – the redness of the red pole is very impressive, i didn’t know you could easily get such red red, the paving is less impressive.

Can someone get us a photograph?

@notjim wrote:

ctesiphon – as mentioned above, there seems to be a same of the red paving down on the corner by pearse street along with a sample of the red pole – the redness of the red pole is very impressive, i didn’t know you could easily get such red red, the paving is less impressive.

I saw the red pole on saturday when I went for a walkabout around the south docklands, but didn’t see any red paving. Perhaps because it’s not that red? Also, pedestrian access around there is pretty limited at the moment due to construction of the building that will form the south edge of the square. (I should probably admit that part of the reason I posted the comment about the pinkness of the proposed ground treatment was the temptation to make the Mateus Ros

Has the new red Liffey barge ceased operating already?

Not that I know of, GregF. I haven’t seen it in operation, but neither have I heard that it’s been discontinued. If your question is on foot of my pic above, I may have misled you- that’s a bit of graffiti on a temporary hoarding near the proposed square. Some local wag’s opinion rather than any particular fact. A bit like the one below.:)

that entire project is totally over rated. I have yet to see anything that is exciting, big or new. maybe if they have a go at the port relocation we will actually see something of consequence

I agree in terms of what has been delivered thus far however projects such as this proposal as well as:

The Macken St bridge
U2 Tower
Aries Hotel
Liebskind Theatre

have the potential to prove us wrong

For the record, here (above) is the original public space (where the new one is going to be) as it appeared on the cover of the DDDA’s 2003 Draft Master Plan (view looking east – you can see Millenium Tower through the jets of water). But, went down there during the week to see it again only to discover it’s already been demolished!! (below – view looking west). Very clever DDDA – demolish the existing one before releasing plans for the new one 😉 .

It was quite a nice job too. I walked through it once. It had a nice polished stone wall on the north (south-facing) edge, with seating below – would’ve been a suntrap.
Stll, we shouldn’t begrudge because the new one looks good, if a little fussy in the overhead views.

A few pics from this afternoon (saturday). Though it looks like the pole is disappearing out of the top of the first pic, it actually stops right at that point- look closely. Reminds me- must get a haircut.

Definitely red rather than pink – how hard wearing is it?

Hugh? Do you know how well the blue carpet in Newcastle wore?

Those bricks look worn already but I’d say they’re just mock-ups.

Seems pretty hard wearing, and certainly not much softer than your standard concrete or stone paving slab- it seems to be a combination of red stones (old glass?) and small grit/gravel set into a red concrete mix, giving a slightly two-tone look. The light grey blotches on the surface at the edges (lower right pic) are probably just from the cutting of the existing slabs with a circular saw to insert the red ones. But it does raise the issue of how much the red material would show up stains.
But yes, red not pink. Shame- I liked my joke.:(

Dont forget that its still a building site down at GCD hence all that grime and dirt. Mind you seems wverywhere is like that these days.

so it says in the original article that the ddda found they had more space than expected for this square, hence the redesign. how come?

I think there was an access road along the edge of the dock.

Yeah that’s right – the earlier one (recently demolished) didn’t go all the way to the water like the new one does.

They look like painted breeze-blocks but that’s probably just because they’re mock-ups. Certainly the potent colour is encouraging. How often will their bulbs be replaced in the red poles???

Overall a great scheme – the red part reminds me of the ‘Liffey’ set into the Eurovision stage of 1994, though how I remembered that is a matter perhaps best left ignored…
It turned red on occasion, making it strikingly similar…

Eh, anyway…the Libeskind building just doesn’t excite me, not least as I find it near-impossible to relate to conveniently vague, glossy CAD renderings, especially when illuminated and depicted at night.
It does look like it will date rather quickly, though doesn’t every building have to go through a bad patch before being loved again?
Still, the ‘quirkiness’ does come across as overly contrived I think, but mainly the massing which is rather ugly with that giant arse on it. I thought we were trying to bring down obesity in this country.

Are those red slabs for real or are they just testing them out at the moment? I’m not sure about the quality of those ones shown above.

As I said before, they’re most probably just mockups.

God, those red lamps stick things are awful. Saw the one by the bridge on Ringsend Rd last night. Might aswell be a series of internally illuminated Spar signs. The metallic pole with the reflected electric blue (i.e. what is there already) is much better and far subtler. Are DDDA afraid there’ll be nothing to catch the eye down GCD so they have to resort to this retina searing spectacle?

@Morlan wrote:

As I said before, they’re most probably just mockups.

I missed that one.

Yes, the red pole is ‘on’ at night, as you can see in the photo below. But beware – the camera has not reproduced the effect at all; what looks like an orangey light there is actually a deep, brilliant red – every bit as red as appearing in the CGI at the start of the thread. I have to say I think it looks really good.

The mast with blue light also looks good (better than it does in the photo).

Wow, just had a look on http://www.airesmateus.com – (go to projectos / urbanos)at the designs for the hotel. Whilst somewhat vague and arty the illustrations and plans really conjure up something very very innovative and exciting. I’m happy that the checkerboard pattern is actually part of the structure and programme of the building rather than just a style gesture. It’ll also be interesting to see those solid elements extrude right into the building (at least until the standard issue hotel net curtains are fitted).
The building on the opposite side of the square is actually looking a lot more interesting in reality than it does in any of the illustrations above. The breakup of the glazing is much better and the glass supporting “fins” seem to be coated with that weird colour changing film – they look golden from one angle and blue/purple from the other…

BTW, has anyone else seen the model photos on http://www.daniel-libeskind.com/projects/pro.html?ID=46 ?

Looking forward to this. I work within sight of it..toook a wander over a few days ago – those poles are huge! It’ll be interesting to see it when completed. Hopefully not a target for the grafitti gobsheen Grift who has scrawled over every wall in the vicinity. 10 years behind bars I’d give him and his ilk.

The opinions raised so far seem to be pretty positive towards this scheme. Why?

The whole design looks kind of weird, a sort of grand red avenue that doesn’t go anywhere. The deliberate high angle of presentation to reduce the overbearing impact that Leibskind’s theatre will have on the square is deceitful to say the least. The experience at ground level will be somewhat different….. It would be interesting to see a plan of the proposed square – the geometry appears to echo Leibskind’s arbitrary use (and now tired abuse) of the “meaningful angle”.

Whilst it may have the current “fashionable” type of façade the Aries Mateus building looks for all intents and purposes like a 1970’s car park (or is it a subtle reference to some of the 1950’s public housing schemes that used a checkerboard pattern to give some form of interest?).

Whilst the quality of a Martha Schwartz branded design appears to be beyond questioning, the question that keeps recurring to me is why such a grand civic gesture here – what purpose does it serve? All the best riverside spaces I can think of are walkways along the water. There is a reason why St. Marks square doesn’t open directly onto the water and also why it’s surrounded by an arcade….

@patrick24 wrote:

a sort of grand red avenue that doesn’t go anywhere.

It’s a permanent red carpet leading into a theatre , how could you not think that was cool ?

You are on to the right track. What is build behind and to the side of the theatre will determine whether the entire square works, but we shall have to see.

As a Munster man the more of Dublin that is red…….

Ms. Schwartz, according to Wikipedia, “also takes inspiration of the geometry of her designs from the cemetery located directly outside her residence, in which fake flowers constantly adorn the landscape.”

Anyone who has visited an Irish cemetery would probably not use this as a starting point for a civic piazza…

It’s very easy to be flippant about this whole thing but mankind has been creating urban landscapes for a long time and its pretty obvious what works and maybe what does not. After all, it’s not rocket science.

Whilst I wouldn’t want to deny Ms. Schwartz her 15 minutes of fame this constant search for the “shock of the new” invariably leads to an answer that only lasts 15 minutes. Fashion does not equate to Art.

Sometimes the pragmatic or the obvious is a good place to start (or finish!). As Ivor Cutler said, God rest his soul, “Imperfection is an end; perfection is only an aim.”

@patrick24 wrote:

Ms. Schwartz, according to Wikipedia, “also takes inspiration of the geometry of her designs from the cemetery located directly outside her residence, in which fake flowers constantly adorn the landscape.”

Anyone who has visited an Irish cemetery would probably not use this as a starting point for a civic piazza…

Unless you count Wolfetone Park 😉

@patrick24 wrote:

As Ivor Cutler said, God rest his soul, “Imperfection is an end]

Cripes, patrick24! I’ve been feeling pretty sad all day since finding out Ivor left us on Friday, but didn’t think I’d see a mention of him here even though he’s one of my favourite ‘spatialists’ of all time (for want of a better term).

The Bend, by Ivor Cutler

He saw the bend in the road and
wondered why it was there as the
field on either side was flat. Not only
was it flat, it undulated. Then a gang
of navvies in fine spirits must have
given vent to their creative needs. It
was a harmless place, and was the
better for a bit of character, God bless
them.

RIP 15th Jan 1923 – 3rd March 2006. Sorely missed.

There are so many different images of Liebskind’s Performing Arts Centre floating around that it’s impossible to guess what it will actually look like. The model photos that I linked to in a previous post (which look fantastic) are marked 2004 so I’d assumed that they had been superceded by the much less interesting images of a metal clad/glass front object as shown in the rendering of the square.
However, Sunday’s Tribune published a supplement on the dockland developments including an image of the PAC which looks much closer to the model version than the metal version – and it included the red pavement, angles on the ground etc.

Model Images:

And the initial image used to illustrate the proposal:

One problem I can forsee with Grand Canal Square is that it is east-facing.

Best if a public space can be south or west-facing to get those important afternoon and evening sunlight hours, but especially one fronting water. You should be able to linger by the water with the evening sun in the distance, but instead the sun will be disappearing behind the big Performing Arts Centre on summer evenings, leaving much of the square in shadow …… pity.

@Devin wrote:

but instead the sun will be disappearing behind the big Performing Arts Centre on summer evenings, leaving much of the square in shadow …… pity.

and that shrill Irish summer breeze 🙁

Keeping an eye on this development out the window here and they have piled a load of muck up outside, loads of activity. Seems to be motoring.

Dublin’s Docklands — a Spectacle in Red, Green and Blue
http://www.landscapeonline.com/research/article/7487

Work is indeed progressing well, walked past the other day and loads of the posts are up, with their red cladding. They still look very “plastic” and sorta disney in a way, but will look very impressive lit up. The red resin landscaping and angular seats/planters are also coming along.

p.s.

These acupuncture sticks look familiar ? 😉

“Though the first phase of construction does not include a dock extension over the water, the landscape architects are hoping and planning for the extension and a continuation of the red carpet. If it comes to pass, it will also have red underlighting to glow on the water.”

This has to go ahead, anyone know why its not included in the first phase, is permission required ?

The extended platform is integral to the overall design, the red pathway looks stunted & out of proportion if it stops at the dock side …

Ah here I was looking forward to seeing the ‘Red Carpet’ effect. They should actually extend it so the Viking tour can’t get past.

@Peter FitzPatrick wrote:

“Though the first phase of construction does not include a dock extension over the water, the landscape architects are hoping and planning for the extension and a continuation of the red carpet. If it comes to pass, it will also have red underlighting to glow on the water.”

This has to go ahead, anyone know why its not included in the first phase, is permission required ?

The extended platform is integral to the overall design, the red pathway looks stunted & out of proportion if it stops at the dock side …

Permission is required from Waterways Ireland who are the body responsible for the Grand Canal, not the DDDA.

Related: A team have started dismantling the old machinery house on the bridge here (its called MacMahon Bridge) hopefully signalling the start of its refurbishment. Section of the pavement all along Pearse street are slowly (but surely) being relaid and it also seems a new unified lighting scheme is planned to give the street a much needed upgrade.

was thinking it was something like that alright adhoc … so why don’t they just apply ! ? the way its put in the landscapeonline article, it sounds like it might be tackled towards the end of the job, shwartz & ddda should be pushing heavily for this.

at least things are progressing, any finishing date yet ??

Everything of worth in the city will be completed by 2013

@ The Denouncer wrote:

Everything of worth in the city will be completed by 2013

Cities are never completed. If they are they are dead cities.

I’m not sure how recent this satalite image is, perhpas only a few weeks.

Is this what it appears to be?

Duncan had an article on this and the rest of the docks on About the House on RTE on Tuesday night. The docks content looked good overall. They had the DDDA big nobs on too who talked about the U2 tower and the Point Depot proposals.

It’s not that recent – the site for the Alto Vetro tower on Pearse St. hasn’t been cleared yet.

@Andrew Duffy wrote:

It’s not that recent – the site for the Alto Vetro tower on Pearse St. hasn’t been cleared yet.

That image doesn’t show the site of Alto Vetro – this is the NW corner of the main basin

… but it comes from Google Earth, and that lets you scroll around the place.

The satellite images are regularly four to six months behind

@jdivision wrote:

The satellite images are regularly four to six months behind

Yes, I was down that direction couple of weeks back and they’ve made a lot of progress with the new square… and it also looks like they have started on the Mateus Hotel….

There were kids skating around the square yesterday, presumably they found a gap in the fencing.
So if that continues expect the metal seating to be all dented before it’s open to the public.

They are flying ahead with this. You can walk through part of it.

Wow, excellent – thanks for those.
It looks so exciting, and like it’s costing a bomb! The poles are a bit taller than I expected.
It’s evident already that there’s going to be a superb standard of finish.

Yes, thanks Devin. 🙂 I had a glimpse of it from the DART at Grand Canal Dock yesterday evening.

In your first picture it looks like they have started on these:

Seems to be a large series of shapes that appear to sink into the ground. Seating and mingle areas, maybe? I’m probably wrong though. What are they?
Judging by the surface design of two shapes in that first photo, it looks like they will deter the skateboarders anyway.

I can’t see the old GCD chimney stack in your second photo 😮

I assume it’s just hidden behind that 6 story shaft? 😮

The chimney stack is still there! Yes I walked through this on Wednesday, looking good..all the poles were lit up on Monday evening, and looks like its going to be a great addition to the docks. Wonder when they’ll get permission and start work on the section that seques into the water.

That lawn looks superb. Look at the lushess and greeness of the grass. I hope they maintain it like that. This should look cool when it is finished.

It’s all very exciting. There’s not many buildings in Dublin by internationally reknowned architects, so to have a building by Daniel Liebeskind is a major boon for the architecture in Dublin.

This looks great. For once there is something that delivers on its early promise and resembles the architect’s renderings. Will definitely add a bit of light and colour to the docklands. 🙂

I really like the landscaping… the red poles look really good when lit at night. Libeskind is one of my favourite architects, however im not all that fascinated with his addition to GCD… i prefer the hotel to the right.

Quelques Autres:

The last photograph shows the point at which the plane is supposed to extend into the water. While I agree that it could be a nice “feature”, I think it may have been economised out of the project. To be perfectly honest I don’t really think it is neccessary, as it offers little in terms of usability.. (Diving board?!)…

At the same time though, the paving hasn’t gone down there yet, so it may yet happen. I do have some photos of all the pylons/pillars lit up. I’ll endeavour to upload them in a few days.

The building on the left of the square continues to grow on me. The cladding/glazing shimmers interestingly no matter what the quality of light is, and it should act as an enticing backdrop to the pillars. A “Fresh” shop is opening in it sooner rather than later; That should help activate some of the space in and around the Basin, and not before time too.

@Devin wrote:

Looking at that picture, with One George’s Quay and Liberty Hall far off in the distance reminds me just how far that part of town is away from everywhere else. I’m personally over the moon that this part of Dublin, that’s frankly been neglected up until now is getting lots of life into it. It must be a apin for the neighbours with all the mess and noise and concrete but it should be fantastic once it, the U2 Tower, Lansdowne Road are completed and the IGB gets a great revamp. I think this is going to be THE place to be next decade.

Just took this tonight – not too far from Martha’s original design. It seems they’re keeping those lights on more regularly now. Work is well under way on the extension out into the dock, and Fresh – a fantastic fresh food/supermarket has opened for business with deli, bakery, butcher, nice wine selection etc. Ely HQ has been kitted out in the last few days, and they plan to open in early January. Seems as though the area is finally coming to life…:D

Wow, great shot Radar. Very chic. You really get a sense of the scale from that angle. Didn’t realise how powerful the green strips were going to be but they’re pretty hot too. looking forward to checking this out. 😎

surprised to see how quickly all this is going ahead & great to hear that the extension in to the dock itself is actually under construction, its an essential part of the design … thought it might have been left on the shelf.

Thanks for the pic Radar, looks great.

Oh god. All that light makes me feel queasy.
And I don’t mean ‘intellectually queasy’- I mean physically queasy. Maybe it’s the contrast from the night-time photo?
I hope it’s better during the day.

Just remember: what happens in the Docklands, stays in the Docklands. BTW, great photo, Radar.

Yes Radar, very nice, but I suspect you’re connected to the project 🙂 and have access to manipulated images, as it’s impossible to photograph those poles in their true red colour, as anybody who has tried will know – they just come out as a lurid orangey-yellow.

Ah, the sceptics – maybe they could gimme a job though!
Funnily enough, they haven’t turned those lights on since I took that photo. They have been lighting up McCann Fitzgerald’s new headquarters on a regular basis – looks good – Vegas style as Manifesta appropriately put it!

Had another stroll past the glowsticks on the docks this morning and was surprised to see the red colored illumination inside each pole is not static. There appears to be a beam of red light inside each pole that undulates upward in a subtle wave pattern. It was a bit eerie as I hadn’t noticed it before. My first thought was, ‘cool’ and my second, alas, was ‘lava lamp’. The photos obviously can’t capture the effect but it’s well worth a look.

A digression here, but I’m wondering with all of this optimistic light-show business going on, are we going to see another unsavory, revisionist name change for the area? I don’t know if this is the idealist or the ironist in me, but I hope the name ‘Misery Hill’ will remain attached to this brilliantly lit strip. Though in light of some other developments (renaming townlands after shopping centers), I’m a little worried. I’ve never actually seen a ‘Misery Hill’ sign anywhere and it’s omitted in certain city maps. Is this going to quietly slip away in a heap of rubble and fanfare?

Those house across the water are a balls. They should be all demolished and replaced with 8 story apartments or something imaginative.

Couldnt agree more. This particular development has the potential to be Dublins version of Circular Quay in Sydney, with the new theatre being Dublins own Opera Houae…and then you look across at that tip. Surely something is planned for that side, they cant leave those houses exposed surely?

I’m not an architect or anything, but I live inthe docklands – and I think the new McCann Fitzgerald headquarters and those crazy red sticks in the docks are the best thing to arrive in the area in *ages*. I took a walk down to see them yesterday and they look just great! Congrats to whoever gave the go-ahead for them – they’re just brilliant.

Now, let’s see a new design for that Mill opposite the grand canal docks to match the quality of the buildings being built across the road!

@Maskhadov wrote:

Those house across the water are a balls. They should be all demolished and replaced with 8 story apartments or something imaginative.

Sure it’s only where the poor people live. Hardly the type of resident we should be trying to encourage, right? And the handy thing is that, because it’s local authority housing, it should be easy enough to just give them a shove.

Because places are all about buildings, not people, right?

*** *** ***

manifesta-
I haven’t heard any plans to change the name of Misery Hill, but that’s not to say that it’s not being planned. Still, if we’re airbrushing the established local population out of the area, maybe we should go the whole hog and airbrush the history too?

‘Misery’. It just sounds so, well, poor.

https://archiseek.com/content/att…1&d=1164040899

Those house across the water are a balls. They should be all demolished and replaced with 8 story apartments or something imaginative.

@johnfp wrote:

Couldnt agree more. This particular development has the potential to be Dublins version of Circular Quay in Sydney, with the new theatre being Dublins own Opera Houae…and then you look across at that tip. Surely something is planned for that side, they cant leave those houses exposed surely?

Architecturally speaking those buildings actually offer alot more than much of the rubbish being built at present around the docklands. Go and have a look at them. You might be suprised.

I wouldn’t be surprised Phil. The city has an awful lot of work to do. Some of the parts of the city are horrendous.

We can relocate those people who come from a lower social economic background to brand new units somewhere else in the city. I’m on about the buildings across the water not the people.

You say that it is not the people, yet it seems that in replacing the ringsend flats you would move the people who live in them! Just so your view down Grand Canal Docks canal can be ‘improved’.

@Maskhadov wrote:

We can relocate those people who come from a lower social economic background to brand new units somewhere else in the city.

And if they don’t want to move…?

(I also agree with Phil that the buildings aren’t bad at all, having been outside them this weekend, though I think the social side of your argument requires more attention than the aesthetic.)

I thought this was to be one of the most important areas of the city for art. Those flats don’t enhance the experience. Neither does a bunch load of scangers coming over in track suit bottoms begging for money so they can buy some dutch gold.

@Maskhadov wrote:

I thought this was to be one of the most important areas of the city for art. Those flats don’t enhance the experience. Neither does a bunch load of scangers coming over in track suit bottoms begging for money so they can buy some dutch gold.

Not sure where you heard the thing about art from, but what does it matter when your views (as expressed in the second sentence) are clearly based on massive generalisations.

They could just put a line of 20 foot neon poles in front of all those ‘flats’ so they can’t be seen.

@Maskhadov wrote:

Those house across the water are a balls. They should be all demolished and replaced with 8 story apartments or something imaginative.

Surely in the Irish context ‘8 story apartments or something imaginative’ is a perfect example of an oxymoron! 🙂

ok, obviously some people here have a vested interest in keeping the flats. I was just pointing out that they look crap in comparison to what they are trying to build the other side of the water

Not vested interest, just interest. Unless you consider caring about your city ‘vested’.

And whether or not they look crap (as you know, I don’t think they do), I can’t agree that they should be removed just so something more (ahem) befitting the area can be installed. Enough of the historic fabric of the docklands has been swept away to make the retention of the remaining layers all the more necessary.

Ireland is a capitalist society. You will find at the end of the day something will be done to obscure that particular section in order that the development may be completed to a high standard. This may well involve those particular residents being re housed in a differernt part of the city . I`m not saying it`s right, more that it is the nature of the beast. In trying to showcase the city , it`s an inevitable consequence of almost any new development . (see across the river at the IFSC ) If we were talking about say Socialist Stockholm here, such extremes don’t exist and as such there wouldn’t be an issue but this is Celtic Tiger Oireland, and if you get in the way, then tough. Money talks, and unfortunately bullshit walks.

@The Denouncer wrote:

They could just put a line of 20 foot neon poles in front of all those ‘flats’ so they can’t be seen.

Are you being serious?

ok, obviously some people here have a vested interest in keeping the flats. I was just pointing out that they look crap in comparison to what they are trying to build the other side of the water

Maskhadov, no vested interest for me either! As I said earlier, these buildings are alot better than alot of what has been built in the docks in recent years. As with many similar developments of their era, they are good examples of high density urban living that have stood the test of time.

Ireland is a capitalist society. You will find at the end of the day something will be done to obscure that particular section in order that the development may be completed to a high standard. This may well involve those particular residents being re housed in a differernt part of the city . I`m not saying it`s right, more that it is the nature of the beast. In trying to showcase the city , it`s an inevitable consequence of almost any new development . (see across the river at the IFSC ) If we were talking about say Socialist Stockholm here, such extremes don’t exist and as such there wouldn’t be an issue but this is Celtic Tiger Oireland, and if you get in the way, then tough. Money talks, and unfortunately bullshit walks.

That does not make it right.

Originally posted by Phil
Are you being serious?

No.

Yeah The Denouncer, it’s probably better that those lights are left on west side of the dock anyway so the new developments don’t ruin the view from Ringsend 😉

Whilst it is bad to say it I have to say that the view to Ringsend is not inspiring at all and detracts completely from what is trying to be done in the Docklands area. Buy the people out and demolish the whole lot IMO. This is where a world class quarter really should be in Dublin and would provide scope for skyscrapers and the like. Like I say its not nice to say but its true.

I am amazed and frankly appalled by some of what I am reading here.

@Maskhadov and the other demographic designers, would you not think the obvious solution is to build brand spanking new apartments on the site of the current Ringsend flats, and then rehouse the current residents there. Then it would all fit in perfectly, the current residents would get more modern homes, and the current community in Ringsend would not be disrupted by the wholesale removal of a huge chunk of its residents.

the days of gentrification by removal are long gone. Anyone suggesting otherwise has not been paying attention to patterns of urban development in the post war period. This policy failed (see west Tallaght for example) and should never happen again. There is nothing wrong with those flats as far as I’m aware. Some LA housing of that era is far superior accomodation than many of the private apartments built in Irishtown/Ringsend since, both space wise and visually. Ringsend is a living inner suburban district with a long history. Obviously it’s not all good, (I remember goin through from the Point years ago with a few mates and being chased through the town, they caught one of my mates and mugged him at knife-point, so I’ve first hand experience of these “scangers” so eloquently referred to earlier.)

Some of the posters here belong in Thatcher’s London Docklands, not our Dublin Docks. Darkman please define “world class quarter”? What’s a world class place to live in if it is devoid of character, history and it’s people, wholly populated by a transient, single class?

@alonso wrote:

What’s a world class place to live in if it is devoid of character, history and it’s people, wholly populated by a transient, single class?

I see nothing appealing about the flats in Ringsend at all. Sometimes its better to call a spade a spade. It is not an area the vast majority of Dubliners would consider visiting for very obvious reasons. No I would rather it did not remain like that. Demolish the whole lot and start again.

Rinsend is a place to live not for outsiders to visit. Calling a spade a spade is not the same as calling in the bulldozers…

Well… I think Ringsend can be both, no? Rather than just, y’know, a local village for local people?;)

darkman-
Are you putting up the money to buy the residents out? Are you going to find them alternative accommodation? Are you going to go house to house and say ‘I think your building is ugly – and everyone’s entitled to their opinion – so if you don’t mind, please move along. You really are dragging down the tone of the place. I know your sort have been treated badly down through the years, but if you don’t mind just one more punch in the guts… See, you’re spoiling my view.’

Jeez, but SimCity has a lot to answer for. Or was it those old black and white war movies where generals shunted tanks around on a big map while hidden safely in an underground bunker?

I was down there during the week and for those who don’t know, the flats are beyond the Dodder with a nice parcel of unused land betwen the Grand Canal Basin and the (west side of the) Dodder. So they could build a ‘nice’ looking block of apartments / office, whatever and no one would have to move anywhere and the Grand Canal Dock redevelopment would be visually agreeable from all vistas. 😀

ctesiphon, as we all know , Royston Vasey was inspired by Residents Associations in nearby Sandymount!!! This is a local low-density, upmarket, unchanging, obstinate, obstructionist nimby suburb for local low-density, upmarket, unchanging, obstinate, obstructionist nimby people… I think we should demolish housing on Strand Road as they obstruct the view from the multicoloured council housing off Sean Moore Road.

I heard Tesco want to redevelop in Sandymount Green to a (gasp) 3-5 storey apartment and retail development. 2 chances lads, 2 chances. I await the “High Rise Horror” headline in Lifetimes or the Southside News. They’re fcking apoplectic about the S2S cycleway as well. How offensive can a cycletrack be?? anyway I rant…

I must say that I find it deeply worrying as to how normalised the idea of destroying the Ringsend flats seems to be in the minds of those posters proposing it. It is as though the way Dublin City Council have treated many other Local Authority housing schemes in recent years has made it seem natural that whole communities should be completely uprooted and torn apart in the interest of the ‘image of the city’. What is remarkable is how the views originally expressed about the existence of these buildings seem in reality to be based solely on posters generalisations of life in Ringsend rather than any aesthetic judgement of the buildings in and of themselves.

I agree, Phil. Personally, I think that the Ringsend flats are flawed, perhaps. But I’d never advocate their destruction in the interest of “putting something imaginative” there. They have Integrity and character. They are of Dublin and it’s past. The Ringsend Flats really do feel like they belong as part of the Docklands, which is more than can be said for most of the (decidedly) average, bland gated flats* which are being inserted into the Urban fabric.
With regards to the “Improvement” of the area, by removing the established community, however much you might dislike their existence in a “world class city quarter”, they are a part of this city just as much as anyone else, and there are families living there, IN THE CITY. This is what all Urbanists want and strive for. It is a stated objective of Dublin City Council. If you advocate the removal of these people, to be replaced by transient 1-2 bedroom apartments, then I strongly disagree with you.

*In fairness, they could be a lot worse. They do ignore their context quite spectacularly, although this is probably as a result of Developer pressure, and the ineptitude of DDDA to Masterplan with any conviction.

If you advocate the removal of these people, to be replaced by transient 1-2 bedroom apartments, then I strongly disagree with you.

As I have being trying to indicate in my last few posts on this matter, I would strongly disagree with wholesale removal of established communities anywhere.

If you don’t like the view of the flats then why did you buy your apartment there? Do you think the world revolves around you. Those communities were there long before you arrived and will probably be there long after you’ve moved on. If you buy anywhere in Dublin 1,2,3 and large parts of 4 chances are you will be living somewhere within a short walking distance of a local authority housing scheme. get over it or commute from somewhere more to your taste. And by the way I can’t think of a single thing in the docklands that’s world class. It’s blandness personified.

Looking at the buildings on their own, I think they are quite pleasant architecturally. However, I think peoples’ perceptions are altered by the rundown nature of the surroundings. It would be nice if the graffiti covered walls and barbed wire next to the dock were knocked and the area opened up and turned into a promenade with planting, mature trees etc with benches to sit on. As it is its just grim and uninviting.

Nice photo jackwade,epic Dublin view. I’ve always admired these flats, they’re Amsterdam school for goodness sakes, anyone calling for their removal is mad, leave them alone….

Anybody know if they’ve started on the U2 tower yet ??

Or the new bridge, Macken street ??

Thanks.

They’re lovely buildings – Simms was a great asset for the Housing Department….
Here is more of his work: https://archiseek.com/search/search.php?template_demo=&site=&path=&result_page=search.php&query_string=herbert+simms&search.x=0&search.y=0

What looks wrong in that photo is the wall – that needs to be removed.

@shaun wrote:

Anybody know if they’ve started on the U2 tower yet ??

Or the new bridge, Macken street ??

Neither yet, shaun. Soon…:rolleyes:

Also, thanks jackwade for the pic. Certainly helps the discussion for those not familiar with the buildings.

yeh nice to see a good pic of proper oul Dublin. They’re bloody good, esp those to the right. A great example of Dutch-style flats, like North Strand and the neglected and destroyed Sheriff st.(probably for the best, in that case) Although could you imagine those ESB towers gettin PP these days. Visulaise the before and after photomontage using the above pic.

The section that goes into the water is well underway, currently extending about 20 metres into the water from what I can see, test poles are up on it too but under wraps. They seem to be working non-stop on it, that went up pretty quick.

I only just happened upon this Ringsend debate – seem to have missed it first time round. I fully echo the arguments supporting the retention of these flats (or aportments loike) and more importantly the community they house. On both counts, why would you want to replace this area? Even if the whole community was simply lifted elsewhere, whatever attendant problems it has will be transferred with it – so that’s hardly an argument. Similarly why would you want to replace architecturally interesting, if not entirely distinguished in places, Amsterdam housing with more of Dockland’s sameness?

It is odd how people can have such different opinions, but for me this housing is one of the best assets of the south docklands. It presents the most intriguing vista of reassuring, glowering hulks of houses, with that imposing skyline of grand chimney stacks piercing the cityscape. And even if this community isn’t to ‘one’s taste’:rolleyes:, it could in any event be argued that this enclave of housing looks its best when seen from a distance, especially from the north bank where it appears rather suddenly and incongruously in view, with ranks of red brick blocks huddled together, the colouring nicely contrasting with the water and greenery all about.

Quote of the Month 😀

@ctesiphon wrote:

Are you putting up the money to buy the residents out? Are you going to find them alternative accommodation? Are you going to go house to house and say ‘I think your building is ugly – and everyone’s entitled to their opinion – so if you don’t mind, please move along. You really are dragging down the tone of the place. I know your sort have been treated badly down through the years, but if you don’t mind just one more punch in the guts… See, you’re spoiling my view.’

Jeez, but SimCity has a lot to answer for. Or was it those old black and white war movies where generals shunted tanks around on a big map while hidden safely in an underground bunker?

@Radar wrote:

Just took this tonight – not too far from Martha’s original design. It seems they’re keeping those lights on more regularly now. Work is well under way on the extension out into the dock, and Fresh – a fantastic fresh food/supermarket has opened for business with deli, bakery, butcher, nice wine selection etc. Ely HQ has been kitted out in the last few days, and they plan to open in early January. Seems as though the area is finally coming to life…:D

Woah, that looks sooo good. Imagine what its going to look like in Christmas 2007 when its all finished with red and green seasonal colours. It’ll be a part of the city we won’t have to dress up for the Lord’s Birthday.

This piece of architecture is turning out as I suspected as being a piece de theatre of building work. it confirms by conviction that the Grand/Royal Canal Docks Area is going to be THE place to be in the next decade.

piece de theatre indeed!

funny they’ve built the plaza before the theatre.

@fergalr wrote:

funny they’ve built the plaza before the theatre.

@ctesiphon wrote:

Isn’t completing the plaza before the performing arts building a bit like hoovering the shed before commencing the woodwork?

]https://archiseek.com/content/showthread.php?t=3124&page=3[/url])

I look at those pictures and i think eurotrash (the tacky lights not the flats!)

This place is looking more and more manic by the day.

some pics taken by ‘ake’ today … nearly finished by the look of things …

Hey i was down at this new space recently, it quite interesting that they’d go ahead and finish this before the theatre has even started. Havnt made up my mind whether its tacky or kinda cool..only time will tell i guess.

Can anyone explain to me though what the stairs going under the plaza lead to? a public toilet perhaps? The stairs are in the steel feature on the right hand side of ake’s first photo?? (obviously not to clear from such a distance but anyone who’s been down there should know what im on about)

Also can anyone explain the type of construction being used on the 5* hotel in the background of the photo above-its a huge steel frame around the concrete cores

@shed wrote:

Can anyone explain to me though what the stairs going under the plaza lead to? a public toilet perhaps? The stairs are in the steel feature on the right hand side of ake’s first photo?? (obviously not to clear from such a distance but anyone who’s been down there should know what im on about)

Theres an undeground carpark under the square.

for the glass bottle site and surrounding development land, could they not extend the interconnector or metro and use a cut and cover method, before the land is developed?

@stira wrote:

for the glass bottle site and surrounding development land, could they not extend the interconnector or metro and use a cut and cover method, before the land is developed?

They’re planning on extending Luas to it instead

(ake)

Nobody’s commented on that redbrick block, it destroys the whole north view of the basin. Why have a block with a 100% glass façade beside a block with 80 redbrick façade ? It looks terrible.

looks fairly cheap alright, it actually looks like the stick on kind … just to clarify ake took pics. 😮

Oh right, thanks for the pics ake!

I was down there the other night, and it looks great on many levels and dubious on others. Obviously there’s a heck of a long way to go yet, but a few things do stand out as odd. The raised flower beds/seating blocks break up the space in a big way, acting as major impediments to pedestrian movement. They may make sense from a helicopter or a rendering, but at ground level they make the space feel a bit chaotic and disjointed – at the minute at least you get no sense of a plan or logic to these yokes. You can’t appreciate their role in the square from ground level as some are quite high, creating a warren of walkways like a maze. Maybe when we get to see a clean sweep of them they’ll make more sense.

The same can definitely be said of that horrible car park shed though, as pictured above: a major blockage at the entrance to the square from the south, and concealing the view of the new theatre and wider square as you round the corner. It’s bizarre that it has been dumped where it has.

But the lighting sticks are very cool, and the chequerboard pattern in them is a nice subtle touch. The underseat lighting is also very sharp, if a bit too bright and the green a bit gaudy. Of course the big concern with all of this is maintenance, maintenance, maintenance. How often are these LEDs going to be assessed and replaced? Once a single unit blows out of the thousands upon thousands in use, the entire host sequence is ruined. Indeed already there’s a walkway light blown outside the new supermarket. And one need only wander down the quays afterwards to observe what this place is going to be like in a few years time – there are tends upon tens of LEDs blown and units untended, while there are countless numbers of the older incandescent tree and walkway uplighters blown all round the c.2000 campshire walks. Is this going to be the fate of the plaza too?

And the thing about the plaza is that its whole crisp effect relies on a pristine maintenance of the public domain and technical features. Without this it’s going to end up an embarrassment, akin to a an 80’s shopping centre in Milton Keynes or a once-proud decrepit town centre ‘civic regeneration’ project. It’s essential it’s kept looking good.

Yeah, maintaining the lighting on this square will be a big job, and let’s hope the DDDA will look after it well. You don’t seem to have much faith, Graham – This isn’t the DCC Lighting Department!

…some 50 of these light sticks will be scattered across the red carpet, the designers also want to program in various lighting effects.

The colorful lighting will add a theatrical experience to the space. Around the segments of the red carpet will be red LED light bands; around the base of all the planters will be green LED bands.

There will also be a series of stone block benches at the waterfront edge with linear white LED bands leaking out of the cracks where they are split.

Free summer concerts in the outdoor disco!

http://www.analogconcerts.ie/

(FYI- Konono No.1 know how to bring the party. Pray for sun.)

if the lights are actually LED’s they shouldn’t need much replacing … most tree up lighters aren’t.
Doesn’t look like the the old LED’s do so well 120m up though.

The Irish Times said the square is open, so does this mean it is complete? If it is, I think it’s a major disappointment. By day it looks tacky, and by night it is at best unremarkable. Some of the stonework is nice though. The “red carpet” of resin-glass looks like someone just painted the ground red. What looked spectacular in the rendered image has zero impact in real life. At least that’s my impression. I read about one of her designs in the UK that used blue resin glass that turned out greyish, but I haven’t seen any pictures. Has anyone seen this design? I wonder if this material might have been considered unsuitable, and if the red paint is here to stay. At least the light sticks look ok at night, but overall, this is really unimpressive.

The hotel seems to be coming along nicely and the floor plan on the upper floors is taking shape. Still no sign of the cool stonework. I hope the theatre looks good when it appears.

With regards to the hotel, and courtesy of Manuel Aires Mateus website, here are some details of the hotel:

The aim of the project is to create an urban site, more than just designing a building. The proposal searches to found a brand new distinctive place, inside this vast area of future and sudden growth.
The project strategy is to establish a clear and powerful mark in the city. This mark is on the one hand a reference to Ireland’s topography and geology, and, on the other, a precise proposal for a unique urban settlement at Dublin’s Docklands.
The project is therefore simultaneously bonded to a primary natural condition and a refined civic ambition. But, most of all, the project takes an opportunity for reflecting on human life, its necessities, possibilities and wishes.

I think their text speaks more about the project than their imagery.. what is going on in this cavernous space.. will it be secure?.. heated? controlled -i.e. no skateboarders – ? or is it just a hotel lobby, with them having left the furnishings out of their admittedly cool renders.

For some reason those renders remind me of some surreal Orwellesque vision of the future.

So what is the story with the purple woman, has she just been trysting with the suited dude or did she fall off a balcony?

I think she’s passed out drunk..

@Paul Clerkin wrote:

I think she’s passed out drunk..

Hmmm. And there was me thinking it was an overdose of ecstasy.

this is Dublin – its Scrumpy Jack

does anyone else think the 2nd image is like one giant game of celebrity squares?

purple dress girl looks like she’s been rohypnoled by the peter reid lookalike in the black suit

He looks more like a Bond villan.OH DEAR LORD NO! Hes killed Bond’s girl and with her goes the code to the vault in Zurich! At least it was a happy death for her.

Also making an appearance in the top photo are Paul Smith from Maximo Park and JP MacManus

Not forgetting Ralph Fiennes a la ‘The Avengers’ also in the top pic.

I’m worried about the Libeskind theate – his newly completed ROM in Toronto is disappointing – I’m afraid that the finished product in Dublin will similarly fall short of the images and hype.

Images of the finished ROM
http://canada.archiseek.com/news/2007/000149.html

Its difficult to judge the finished product set against this ‘render’

Libeskind is certainly hit & miss, lets hope his Dublin commission lives up to the renders.
Swartch’ design takes much of its inspiration from Libeskind’s propsoal, indeed they are almost interdependent, successful execution of both is essential.

I Haven’t seen the finished landscape design yet, i hope the overall scheme hasn’t fallen at the first hurdle.

Liebeskind smacks of half-arsedness. He’s become a brand, with cities vying to get him to design a building for them. He’s starting to take up the ubiquity associated with the Hilton Hotels before they were everywhere. I suppose its what the cities want though. Frank Gehry once said something about how any of his clients nowadays would be very dissappointed if he produced something which didnt look like the Guggenheim Bilbao.

Personally I think that Zaha Hadid should be building this building.

Took some photographs when I was in town at the weekend,

and more…

Great pictures!

@ake wrote:

Great pictures!

Shame about the square!

Is there even a water feature in the square:confused: Or is it just full of concrete and read poles.

If you look at the second from last picture, you can see that there are a number of holes in the marble. I believe these are to become fountain nozzles. It isn’t operational yet, however.

I think it’s quite successful really. A bit more green wouldn’t have gone amiss, but it is being used quite intensely already as a place to sit around in. It fulfills it’s original intent: to give life to the area.

The pictures look great, but give a misleading to the look of the place. Alot of the work is decidedly substandard. The stone paving is poorly laid, and the materials chosen in some cases sub-DIY (the green benches in particular will be flaking in no time).

But then again the speed by which the original square was reconfigured to look like this should be indicative…

…this reminds me of a student project …..or something you might find in a provincial city in china- parts of it are very tacky…..but worst of all it is patchy….i thinkk the planting is good, but again regimented, leaving the vast amount of the space looking cold and unwelcoming….also i don’t think the red carpet looks good- it appears pink and faded…and how long before it be becomes a polka dot pattern with gum….. what is the libeskind-esque wire mesh structure???

@CM00 wrote:

If you look at the second from last picture, you can see that there are a number of holes in the marble. I believe these are to become fountain nozzles. It isn’t operational yet, however.

I have seen this water feature turned on on a few occasions.

Stop complaining people, the square looks well! (Maybe not as well as in the renders, but things rarely do)

Those green lights look like that cheap tacky disco rope imo.
Not a fan of the red poles either but each to their own and all that.

@Starch wrote:

what is the libeskind-esque wire mesh structure???

Car park entrance, afaik.

I do like the selection of plants.

Yeah, you can see that they havn’t gone with the same landscaper who plonks 2000 saplings at motorway interchanges. I say plonks rather than plants because many of them end up falling down and dying due to half-arsed planting.

Crosbie firm buys €100m theatre being built in Dublin docklands
The Irish Times

Dublin entrepreneur Harry Crosbie’s Point Village Company has bought the 2,200-seat theatre currently under construction at Grand Canal Square in Dublin’s docklands. The €100 million theatre is the third major performance venue planned for the docklands, following the redevelopment of the Point – also owned by Mr Crosbie – and the planned move of the Abbey Theatre to the area. The new building was originally promoted by the Dublin Docklands Development Authority. It was designed by architect Daniel Libeskind, who designed the Jewish Museum in Berlin. Libeskind was also involved in designs for Ground Zero in New York. The proposed name for the venue is the Canal St Theatre, and it will host major international shows including ballet, opera and drama.

http://www.ireland.com/newspaper/ireland/2007/0703/1183326714225.html

Is there anyone who feels like I do, that the red flooring there lacks any attractive finishing?
The floor of my local Garage looks similar!
Would a glazed surface not have given a little more class?
:rolleyes:

If Harry Crosbie has bought the new Liebeskind venue I suppose this will be completed before the Point redevelopment starts, else there’ll be no place in the docks for concerts, etc…

Mmm, I wonder. I thought the Point Depot itself was being shut for it’s re-gig this autumn. I wonder would he consider keeping it open in it’s currenty guise until the Liebskind theatre is open ? That’s going to be a couple of years though.

Some of the big concert promoters are looking to erect temporary structures (big tents) in the Phoenix Park and perhaps at the Museum of Modern Art while the Point is closed. No doubt other options will also be suggested.

As for Grand Canal Square – Hanby Wallace solicitors has signed up to move to one of the new buildings under construction in the area. Looks like this is turning into the new legal quarter.

So why is it always so? The DDDA had one of their festivals in gc square this weekend, the events looked very good, but, well, when they had the space designed oh a few months ago they obviously hadn’t thought that they would ever use it for something like this because the square looked a mess: to hold the event they had to string those crappy barriers everywhere, lots of them rubbing up against the crazy red poles and scuffing them, they also stuck signs on the red poles with cable ties. Why couldn’t the space had been laid out to allow it to be used for events without the crappiness?

I noticed on Sunday that many of the strips for the illuminated borders on the red sections are shattered.

so the square in full use, anyone go to these concerts over the weekend I applied for dl food didn’t get tickets though :/ http://www.analongconcerts.ie looking at some boards it seems connected people somehow won the lottery

looks ok http://www.flickr.com/photos/gtx2/
http://www.flickr.com/photos/bazhickey/837231135/

anyway gigs reviews good for dj food cinema orchestra good but a bit too laid for going on last nothing about the space?

I was at the Konono No.1 show on Saturday night and the Glenn Branca one on Sunday afternoon.

I agree with notjim- the square wasn’t meant for this sort of event. I’ve expressed reservations before about the usability of the square. It’s been one of my main concerns with the Schwartz design since the beginning. There’s just too much clutter, yet at the same time it’s too exposed as a performance space. No doubt this will change when the Libeskind theatre is finished, but sufficiently? I have my doubts, but we’ll see.

The really disappointing/annoying thing about the weekend was the excessive use of crash barriers everywhere, which added to the clutter without having any discernible benefits. It just wasn’t the sort of crowd that needed herding. I can only presume they were required by some insurance policy clause or other. Whatever about the need to restrict access to the ticket-holder area, there was no need to seal off access to the edge of the water and the seats. The quay is open year round, with no apparent problems, so why the need to do it for a concert? Apart from anything else, for many people attending it was their first time seeing the new works, and they wanted to walk out to the end of the red carpet and have a closer look at the magic wands, but couldn’t. Though given the damage that was done to the red poles inside the ticket-holder area, as noted by notjim, maybe the crash barriers were there to protect the poles from other crash barriers?

While there I did a highly scientific survey among my friends (mostly non-specialists, just regular citizens), asking what they thought of the place, and all but one said they didn’t like it. Opinions ranged from ‘Like a playground in a 1980s housing scheme in Barcelona’ (from someone who used to live in Barcelona) to the simple ‘cheap and tacky- I wonder how it will age?’ Some people did like the red poles, but the green lights fared less well. The planting was generally much liked.

One last thing- apparently they had to use an inflatable stage, as seen in the Flickr pics posted above, because the square has a limited load capacity due to the car park below. A bigger crowd, which would have created a better atmosphere, might also have been too much weight.

I was down there (albeit over at Ocean bar) during one of the gigs last week and had a few thoughts:

• The metal barriers completely ruined whatever positive visuals there were. They had this new, exciting open area, and promptly blocked it off to prevent what appeared to be a small and quiet crowd of people from… what? walking close to the water?
• The part of the square that extends over the water was blocked, i presume for insurance reasons, but it left the place looking a little ‘wrong’
• Red poles look interesting, they were brighter than I thought they’d be,interesting light patterns

Here’s some photos from the other day 2/8/07

Does anyone know what type of glass this is?

Excuse the redness of the poles – ISO was set incorrectly

The new bridge:

Some photos from the hoardings

I wonder why they don’t turn on the red lights in the ground that you can see in the hoarding photos Morlan posted. I saw them turned on once a few months back and they looked really great at night

The structural fins in the DMOD office building on the square are covered in a “dichroic” film which has the effect of reflecting and transmitting complementary halves of the spectrum of light, creating constantly changing fields of colour from different angles. The main glass facade uses standard solar glazing on the wide panels and a low reflectivity glass on the narrow bands. It’s a very effective combination and it transforms a fairly standard curtain walled office block into something a little bit ethereal and dynamic…

Is there a perimeter of red neon lighting around each red brick area?Looks as if this was cut from the original plans.Pity really as it would look quality with the green neon strips at night.
When do they expect to begin the hotel and concert arena?They’ll most likely make crap of the place when work begins.

@BTH wrote:

The structural fins in the DMOD office building on the square are covered in a “dichroic” film which has the effect of reflecting and transmitting complementary halves of the spectrum of light,

Thanks for that BTH. My father actually has several Dichroic Mirrors in his house which he used for RGB television projection. Very expensive pieces of kit!

@demolition man wrote:

Is there a perimeter of red neon lighting around each red brick area?
When do they expect to begin the hotel and concert arena?They’ll most likely make crap of the place when work begins.

The red stips are there, but not turned on yet.

I’m guessing that the delivery of construction materials will be made at the back of the theatre via Macken Street, so the main square should be safe.

The hotel, by the looks of it, will be finished by Christmas.

Oh my god, I must say I am absolutely in love with the place. It’s so nice and has a really good european feel to it. I shall definitely pay a visit to the square when I’m in Dublin next. Wow. 😀

So looks like the facade work has started on the hotel in grand canal square. I was under the impression it was supposed to be stone, but what is visible so far is some kind of white plastic. Could this be some sort of underlayer? Or have they just gone for the cheap option…

Looks like they’re being inconsistent with the powering on of the various lights.
Last time I was there the poles weren’t illuminated, but the red strips mentioned by Morlan above were.

@igy wrote:

Looks like they’re being inconsistent with the powering on of the various lights.
Last time I was there the poles weren’t illuminated, but the red strips mentioned by Morlan above were.

The lights have been off for the last week or so. The street lights are off in the adjoining street down to the liffey and along the liffey too, and I noticed that the green lights on the same side of the square were off but the other side were on. So hopefully this is a temporary electricity grid problem rather than ‘policy’.

On a related note it’s a shame they don’t light up the McCann Fitzgerald building anymore :(. It looked fantastic at night when lit up last winter.

There isn’t a raised eyebrow smiley is there?

http://ie.youtube.com/watch?v=xuAYG-DCRR0

Fancy promo…obviously shot when folk spill out onto the streets when on their lunchbreaks during the week…. It’s kinda a ghost town at the weekends.

It will be hard for it to remain a ghost town. Too many sharpy things in the way for the tumbleweed to blow properly.