My architect won’t listen to me.

I would talk to the RIAI – they have an arbitration service I believe

why is he asking fo rmore money if his first design was unnacceptable???? is he familiar with the requirements of your local authority?

i would concur with pauls advice, assuming he is riai approved….

My advise to the poster is to firstly check if he is RIAI registered or not, and perhaps ask the RIAI for advise. You need to raise the issue with the architect if budget and time are important, which they usually are!

I’m afraid that if I involve the RIAI (he’s a member) I’ll be setback again by several more months.
What would they do exactly?

He is asking for more money because (I presume) the payment I made him to draft initial plans was months ago, and now that he has to re-do things he wants another payment.

He is on a fixed-price contract to get Planning Permission. I paid him 25% of that fee so far, but we have gotten nowhere and he wants more to continue.

I appreciate your advice.
Is payment normally made in advance of work, or after it is completed?
I don’t get paid in my job until my work is done.

architects working under an RIAI contract are usually paid in stages, which amount to stages 1, 2 and 3 up to planning which can be invoiced at various times in design development and the planning process.

if you can document where the errors on the part of the architect have taken place and where your concerns as a client have been raised, you may get some satisfaction from the institute in the form of an informal arbitration on what is fair in this case.

@Meccano wrote:

He is on a fixed-price contract to get Planning Permission. I paid him 25% of that fee so far, but we have gotten nowhere and he wants more to continue.

So if the project doesn’t getting Planning Permission you don’t pay?

architects working under an RIAI contract are usually paid in stages, which amount to stages 1, 2 and 3 up to planning which can be invoiced at various times in design development and the planning process.

Right. But is the payment normally demanded before the stage is done, during the stage, or after it is done?

if you can document where the errors on the part of the architect have taken place and where your concerns as a client have been raised, you may get some satisfaction from the institute in the form of an informal arbitration on what is fair in this case.

I’ve kept every email and piece of correspondence.

So if the project doesn’t getting Planning Permission you don’t pay?

No thats incorrect, as I already explained.

I don’t want to give him any more money until he starts listening to my requests, and actually produces something I want. Last time I paid him he proceeded down his own path and ignored or laughed off my complaints about what he was doing. Obviously he was secure in the knowledge that he had my money and I couldn’t do a thing about it. I don’t want that to happen again.
This has taken 4 months already, and I have nothing to show for it.
Nothing.

@Meccano wrote:

Right. But is the payment normally demanded before the stage is done, during the stage, or after it is done?

after it is done. inception fee after inception. sketch design fee afer sketch design. agreed design fee after agreed design. planning application fee after lodgement of application. the fee would not usually be dependent on a grant of planning, as the work has already been completed.

give up him! it is not the only way use Architect to get planning, there are some Interior Architects, Architecture Tech, they also can work for you.:) 🙂 🙂
to be a good architect must be a good person at first!
I think!!!!!

Chao Chen:) 🙂 🙂

@Meccano wrote:

So if the project doesn’t getting Planning Permission you don’t pay?

No thats incorrect, as I already explained.

.

what you said was “He is on a fixed-price contract to get Planning Permission”

that, to me, means exactly what munsterman thought. Perhaps the problem is that you’re not explaining yourself in general?

I wouldnt be too focused on the posters semantics… most clients would use the same phrasing.

The percieved problem here, in my opinion, is that you seem to want to design the dwelling…
@Meccano wrote:

I engaged him to design a house, which I had very clear ideas about. I gave him detailed instructions….

some architects have issues regarding the input the client has into the conceptual design, after all they are the trained professional. Maybe im wrong about this???

Has his total concept been shot down, or certain aspects of it (ie height? fenestration? etc)… is the design modern whereas you want traditional ??

To be honest, if his initial design has been shot done in a pre-planning meeting then it shows a lack of understanding, by him, with the councils requirements…. if this is case, and the concept was driven by him and not you, then he should not be requesting extra fee to redesign what was considered unacceptable.

without knowing any of the particulars of this, it may actually be the case where the architect is trying to pursue a forward and innovative design, which would be commendable,….. and is hitting the usually obstructions of a cenophobic council and inelastic client.

I wouldnt be too focused on the posters semantics… most clients would use the same phrasing.

Yes, thanks for understanding – and I’m reluctant to be too specific, he could be reading this!

The percieved problem here, in my opinion, is that you seem to want to design the dwelling…

I certainly want a large input. I’m going to live in it.

some architects have issues regarding the input the client has into the conceptual design, after all they are the trained professional. Maybe im wrong about this???

When I hired him he seemed agreeable enough – but he changed as soon as he was engaged. His first drawings were so different from what I had in mind that I was actually shocked – and shock turned to despair when he refused to revise them and actually told me that ‘no-one ever criticised my work before’.

Has his total concept been shot down, or certain aspects of it (ie height? fenestration? etc)… is the design modern whereas you want traditional ??

The site is awkward – and what he attempted to do (besides being not what I wanted) was also obviously going to overshadow adjacent properties. I had met the planner myself before hiring an architect. I already knew what they would accept on the site, and even I could tell that this guys idea was not suitable. I was proved right – but only after he ignored my protests and went right ahead with his own preference.

To be honest, if his initial design has been shot done in a pre-planning meeting then it shows a lack of understanding, by him, with the councils requirements…. if this is case, and the concept was driven by him and not you, then he should not be requesting extra fee to redesign what was considered unacceptable.

Thanks to sw101’s concise answer I now know that I won’t pay another penny until he gets it right – for me.

without knowing any of the particulars of this, it may actually be the case where the architect is trying to pursue a forward and innovative design, which would be commendable,….. and is hitting the usually obstructions of a cenophobic council and inelastic client.

It is a contemporary design. That is what I wanted, and the planners had already seen my own idea and approved it.
The architect ignored the obvious solution and pursued one which (IMHO) was ugly, a poor use of space, and doomed to failure due to its impact on the local buildings.

I sit here now not knowing whats going on in the guys head. I’m not paying him until he produces – and I have no idea if he’s even working on the project any more.
What a bloody nightmare!

‘no-one ever criticised my work before’.

seems artistic ego has got in the way. Had a similar experience recently myself. Total nonsense.

What did you do Alonso?

it was a very different scenario and a very different, waaay more minor issue, which was far more easily resolvable. It was just the ego element of your problem that reminded me, not the actual nuts and bolts of the problem you have.

@Meccano wrote:

The architect ignored the obvious solution and pursued one which (IMHO) was ugly, a poor use of space, and doomed to failure due to its impact on the local buildings….I sit here now not knowing whats going on in the guys head…I have no idea if he’s even working on the project any more.
What a bloody nightmare!

If your relationship/ lines of communication are that poor, I think ciai’s advice might be best –
@ciai wrote:

give up him!

Might be worth the while just to let him go – you dont owe him cash, and it seems that for whatever reason your + his ideas are all at odds witheach other. If it were me, I’d let part on good terms, take a few weeks off + then look at it all agian. Best of luck either way. The only thing that I’m a bit confused by though is that you said “the planners had already seen my own idea and approved it.” :confused:

Have you all sat down and discussed the situation through calmly and clearly? It would be far better to sort it out among yourselves. Two issues have to be sorted out, money and design.
No more monies should be handed over before both are dealth with. Ive seen this before and a nice long chat normally sorts it out. He had his reasons for the proposed design let him explain them. Im sure he was acting for your best interests.
I would be fairly sure that he will take on board your ideas and listen to what you have to say from here, however if not, change architect.
It is not uncommon to pay for architectural services in advance by the way. There are practices however who do not require cash up front.

Hutton, I presume they approved it in principle, and didn’t “rule it out” from the outset at pre-planning. As you probably already know, a pre-planning understanding doesn’t in any way mean a grant will be forthcoming.

I’m a tad flabbergasted at this fella’s total lack of professionalism. At the end of the day, he should know what pays the bills. It’s fine to suggest and prod clients but to completely depart from their wishes smacks of negligence, and downright idiocy. I can only presume he’s self employed and has no masters above him waiting for the fees?

I agree with Hutton and ciai. Perhaps give him one more chance, if he’ll do so without charge. If not, it may be time to have the ‘it’s not me, it’s you’ conversation.

Alonso I think your right for the most part but I wouldnt bother even giving the architect another chance – he’s departing too much from the clients brief. TBH neither would I bother having a “its not me,its you” conversation as theres nothing to gain, and at this stage the architect is likely to only take offence. I am still puzzled though by a client rolling out the design ideas at the pre-plans; the architects job I would have thought?

@henno wrote:

I wouldnt be too focused on the posters semantics… most clients would use the same phrasing.

.

it is most certainly not arguing over semantics. If a client asked me to agree to a fee on grant of planning I’d tell them where to go

This should be reasonably simple to clear up. When you engaged this architect, after having an initial consultation, after discussing the project and what you expected and having agreed fees – all as per standard advice on the RIAI website – you both sat down and agreed on the wording of the letter of appointment and both signed up to this accordingly. This will be the first thing looked at in any arbitration situation. Otherwise, of course, it’s your word against his. What does your appointment agreement say?

Have you all sat down and discussed the situation through calmly and clearly? It would be far better to sort it out among yourselves. Two issues have to be sorted out, money and design.
No more monies should be handed over before both are dealth with. Ive seen this before and a nice long chat normally sorts it out. He had his reasons for the proposed design let him explain them. Im sure he was acting for your best interests.
I would be fairly sure that he will take on board your ideas and listen to what you have to say from here, however if not, change architect.
It is not uncommon to pay for architectural services in advance by the way. There are practices however who do not require cash up front.

In truth, I find him a poor communicator. He waffles a lot. And I mean – A Lot.
Having a conversation with him is like wrestling with a grumpy octopus. He’s all over the place, never stcks to the subject. God I must sound like a picky bastard *sigh*. You’d have to try for yourselves to know what I mean.
Its all shockingly unprofessional, thats all I can say.

Hutton, I presume they approved it in principle, and didn’t “rule it out” from the outset at pre-planning. As you probably already know, a pre-planning understanding doesn’t in any way mean a grant will be forthcoming.

I wanted to meet the Planners BEFORE choosing an architect, because I needed to know if they would accept a contemporary building or not. Their opinion would influence my choice of architect.
I had clear ideas of the building I wanted, Even had drafted 3D models on Google Sketchup. I went in alone. The Planner was positive to the point of enthusiasm. That then allowed me to hire an architect to realise that plan – unfortunately, he had his own plans.

I’m a tad flabbergasted at this fella’s total lack of professionalism. At the end of the day, he should know what pays the bills. It’s fine to suggest and prod clients but to completely depart from their wishes smacks of negligence, and downright idiocy. I can only presume he’s self employed and has no masters above him waiting for the fees?

Yes he’s self employed. And seems to be a one man band too.

I agree with Hutton and ciai. Perhaps give him one more chance, if he’ll do so without charge. If not, it may be time to have the ‘it’s not me, it’s you’ conversation.

I can see myself in court with him if I sack him. He seems to think he’s owed money, so I presume he won’t just let it go.

it is most certainly not arguing over semantics. If a client asked me to agree to a fee on grant of planning I’d tell them where to go

Rather nasty comment that – given that the fee arrangement was HIS idea. Obviously other architects work differently to you.

This should be reasonably simple to clear up. When you engaged this architect, after having an initial consultation, after discussing the project and what you expected and having agreed fees – all as per standard advice on the RIAI website – you both sat down and agreed on the wording of the letter of appointment and both signed up to this accordingly.

Nope, none of it was ‘standard’.

This will be the first thing looked at in any arbitration situation. Otherwise, of course, it’s your word against his. What does your appointment agreement say?

It says nothing about him getting paid just when he feels like it!

@Meccano wrote:

I can see myself in court with him if I sack him. He seems to think he’s owed money, so I presume he won’t just let it go.

Hmmm that’s unfortunate – there’s nothing more that I can add other than to revert you to Paul’s comment at post no. 2. Best of luck with it anyway, and avoid the courts if you can 🙂

meccano, wearnicehats point is that an architect is never engaged to GET planning permission, .. the engagement is only ever to apply for the permission……. in my opinion its only semantics and a usual error used by clients, once its explained to them they understand fully….. as you clearly do…..

no architect would be stupid enough to work on a ‘no foal no fee’ basis……..

i must say that from what youve described you clearly have spent a long time thinking about and designing your own dwelling… this is probably a major issue for him…..

in my opinion i would terminate any contract you have with him, quoting difference of understanding of brief (you want him to draw up your design, he wants to design his own)….

ask him for a quotation for work to date (keeping in mind you dont have anything workable, … and ask for a consise breakdown of expenses and fees)………. do this in writing…… pay him and leave amicably…..

then maybe consider engaging a professional that will ‘draw up’ your design and prepare the planning application….. this may not be an architect……

wearnicehats, im showing my inexperience here, but would it not actually be in the favour of the client if no letter of appointment is signed???……. wouldnt that work against the architect in court proceedings???

i must say that i work on 80% fee to planning and remaining 20% if planning granted. in light of some comments here i don’t think that it’s too bad but maybe not particularily sane on my part. which means i collect 80% when i lodge for planning. it is not my main breadwinner so that is why i can.
ego seems to be a big problem everywhere in our profession and now that the title has gotten constricted it will play an even bigger part.
if you have done your design then all you need is a cad monkey to draw it up. an engineer would be fine for this job or in the case of my home town, the local construction teacher.
oh! be careful about your design and particularily if the planner likes it. it doesn’t mean that it’s a good design. it may be brute ugly, not work well or not address other factors. i know it’s your design so sorry if your offended but as, i think arsene wenger, put it ” everyone thinks they have the prettiest wife at home”. i will say that he shouldn’t have laughed at your imput/concerns about his design.

A cad monkey! Charming

my thoughts exactly Stephen…..

and im sure any engineers reading that wouldnt like to have their professional skills and knowledge described on a par with a construction teacher in a local school….

Lol

for planning it is to be honest. well in the area i’m from anyway.

there is this one application that actually recieved planning that looked like a child had drawn it. and it was from a qualified engineer. in most cases the teacher is better than the local engineers.

@henno wrote:

my thoughts exactly Stephen…..

and im sure any engineers reading that wouldnt like to have their professional skills and knowledge described on a par with a construction teacher in a local school….

Yeah, well “civil engineer” – a contradiction-in-terms, a bit like “military intelligence” :p

if you ” designed ” the house yourself as you say then the person who offered to “draw up ” the design for you is by definition not an architect

6th February 2007, 02:10 AM #10
wearnicehats
Registered User

Join Date: Aug 2006
Posts: 107
Re: Fees
Look, it’s very simple.

You find an architect who is willing to do one-off houses. Lots aren’t – myself included – because single home clients are, quite frankly, a total nightmare. Assuming you find one, go through the plans / 3D / whatever you have. If the Architect fancies the job then he will put forward a fee proposals for the work

Prior to this happening, you two will have to have agreed the scope of those works ie do you want a planning scheme, do you want construction drawings and no supervision, do you want full supervision. This can take several meetings and – get this – you will rarely be charged for this!!! Try getting a solicitor to do that.

When dealing with a um, ah, thorough client as yourself the fee proposal should be detailed and the scope of works even more so. If your scheme is in anyway complicated and if the Client is likely to quibble over money, a wise architect will include for both structural and quantity surveyors, for which you will be expected to pay.

With regard to the fee, we could shite on all day over this so just beat whatever you can out of the poor sod. You can also set out what you want it to cover – just the building shell or shell plus fittings etc. Bear in mind that what you pay for is what will be certified

Meccano, looking back at your post from February where you complained about architects fees, it sounds like you did not heed wearnicehats advice from then to have a detailed fee proposal.

Presumably you have shopped around and gone for the lowest price (probably well below the old RIAI recommended percentages) and just agreed it on a shake of hands and now come a cropper.
A cautionary tale for all…..

@pico wrote:

Meccano, looking back at your post from February where you complained about architects fees, it sounds like you did not heed wearnicehats advice from then to have a detailed fee proposal.

Presumably you have shopped around and gone for the lowest price (probably well below the old RIAI recommended percentages) and just agreed it on a shake of hands and now come a cropper.
A cautionary tale for all…..

Hi Pico. I thought I’d revisit this thread to update you on my situation.

Its been over a year – and so much has changed!

Firstly, I sacked the useless muppet who gave me all the grief.
I got my Planning Permission, and then hired an engineer to work up the drawings.
A breath of fresh air, a practical guy. No airs or graces, and no lip.

I moved into the house 2 weeks ago, and I’m very happy with it.

Meanwhile I see that my architect friend has had his other ‘major contract’ flop. All work stopped on the site before the foundations were dug. I expect he’s sufferring now, like so many others in your business. Perhaps he’s gone bust. Good riddance.

Looking back on YOUR comment, one can see now the ARROGANCE and HUBRIS of your profession, and I admit to feeling a warm glow inside that you also are probably now on your uppers.
15% flat rate fees on a residential dwelling? You were creaming it for too long. What a gravy train it was for you.

All gone now.

Pity it didn’t happen earlier.

@Meccano wrote:

Hi Pico. I thought I’d revisit this thread to update you on my situation.

Its been over a year – and so much has changed!

Firstly, I sacked the useless muppet who gave me all the grief.
I got my Planning Permission, and then hired an engineer to work up the drawings.
A breath of fresh air, a practical guy. No airs or graces, and no lip.

I moved into the house 2 weeks ago, and I’m very happy with it.

Meanwhile I see that my architect friend has had his other ‘major contract’ flop. All work stopped on the site before the foundations were dug. I expect he’s sufferring now, like so many others in your business. Perhaps he’s gone bust. Good riddance.

Looking back on YOUR comment, one can see now the ARROGANCE and HUBRIS of your profession, and I admit to feeling a warm glow inside that you also are probably now on your uppers.
15% flat rate fees on a residential dwelling? You were creaming it for too long. What a gravy train it was for you.

All gone now.

Pity it didn’t happen earlier.

You can’t judge an entire profession based on your experience of what you yourself called a USELESS muppet.

From re reading this thread, your architect seems to have been a particularly inflexible and unprofessional character.

However, it also seems that you had the house pretty much fully designed and purely needed someone to draw it up and lodge it for planning permission. There was obviously a misunderstanding as to the function of the architect and this is why a very clear definition of scope of works is always extremely important. Everyone needs absolute clarity about their role in the project.

You also clearly do not understand the amount of time and effort needed to design and build a house – their budgets make it extremely difficult for an architect to profit from doing one off houses – even when ‘creaming’ 15% fees.

Your final comments are discourteous and churlish in the context of half of our profession – many with families, mortgages etc – now in the dole queues . Just because you’re feeling bitter and resentful for your own mistaken choice of a bad architect don’t tarnish the rest of us with the same brush and it’s horrible to wish poverty and hardship on anyone.

I was almost sympathetic untill I read your very unnecessary, petty and childish last post, and have come to think that it was you, rather than your architect, who was suffering from “ARROGANCE and HUBRIS”.

Jebus H!….

All I’ll say on the subject of architect selection is refernces! (Sometimes – possibly like in the case of Meccano, it is advisable for the architect to get references on their prospective clients :))

I came on here a year ago at my wits end, looking for advice. All I got was cat calling and abuse.
Now the shoes on the other foot. Don’t expect my sympathy.

You’re right. I had 80% designed the house. The muppet was told to work up the other 20% and submit planning – that was VERY CLEARLY explained during the hiring process, in my written Brief, and in the initial face to face meetings. I supplied plans, 3D models, a Survey, and minutes from a pre Planning meeting I’d had.

But instead, after 6 weeks, he presented me with a building which was not only utterly and fundamentally changed from my instruction, but was subsequently rejected by the Planners, as I told him it would be. Even as a lay man I could see it was doomed. But this prima donna refused to listen, ploughed on anyhow, and was rejected by the Planner at a subsequent pre Planning meeting. That wasted 3 months of my time, and the delay probably cost me several tens of thousands in the property downturn/bust.

I thought I was unlucky with this twit, but I’ve had friend after acquaintance after builder tell me how much strife they’ve had from architects.

Here’s my advice to those of you wishing to survive in business.

When designing a private dwelling;
LISTEN to the clients requirements.
FORGET your own flights of fancy.
RESPECT the Client – he pays your salary.
FOLLOW the Clients instructions.
DON’T ARGUE or tell your client you know better, unless you have sound structural reasons.
CUT your inflated prices. That’ll happen anyhow, do or die.

@Meccano wrote:

I came on here a year ago at my wits end, looking for advice. All I got was cat calling and abuse.
Now the shoes on the other foot. Don’t expect my sympathy.

Having just re-read this entire thread from the top, I fail to see where you got any ‘cat calling and abuse’. Could you highlight some examples?

It appears to me that this thread drew a number of less frequent posters out of the woodwork who provided you with some sound, sensible and free advice. What you chose to do with that advice – which you specifically requested, don’t forget – was up to you.

With respect, I think many here will do with your advice – unsolicited, lest it need be pointed out – exactly what you did with theirs, except in their cases they’d be right to do so. As a non-architect, presumably it doesn’t apply to me.

Thanks for dropping by with the update. If we need another, we’ll be in touch.

Don’t worry. It was a thoroughly experience I’ll never repeat. Thank god I don’t have to.

I never got into meccano more brio…

http://au.youtube.com/watch?v=lwf7m8_upLo&feature=related

not my style but brio more or less

http://au.youtube.com/watch?v=0R16_37lE3o&feature=related…

then the Christmas present running circles around santa…

http://au.youtube.com/watch?v=IzYcMCSy8pI

then the sheep

http://au.youtube.com/watch?v=LhplyPl14HA

Meccano architects are human…
Have you ever had an architect as a client?
If you don’t plan you plan to fail!
I don’t trust dentists! on that note I’ll shut my mouth 🙂

explains the stock market crash…
http://au.youtube.com/watch?v=rC8VzVmNPOI&NR=1

Could we have a look at the house? A planning ref would do.

@goneill wrote:

Could we have a look at the house? A planning ref would do.

yeah a few pics would be nice to end this thread. 😉

@Meccano wrote:

I came on here a year ago at my wits end, looking for advice. All I got was cat calling and abuse.
Now the shoes on the other foot. Don’t expect my sympathy.

You’re right. I had 80% designed the house. The muppet was told to work up the other 20% and submit planning – that was VERY CLEARLY explained during the hiring process, in my written Brief, and in the initial face to face meetings. I supplied plans, 3D models, a Survey, and minutes from a pre Planning meeting I’d had.

But instead, after 6 weeks, he presented me with a building which was not only utterly and fundamentally changed from my instruction, but was subsequently rejected by the Planners, as I told him it would be. Even as a lay man I could see it was doomed. But this prima donna refused to listen, ploughed on anyhow, and was rejected by the Planner at a subsequent pre Planning meeting. That wasted 3 months of my time, and the delay probably cost me several tens of thousands in the property downturn/bust.

I thought I was unlucky with this twit, but I’ve had friend after acquaintance after builder tell me how much strife they’ve had from architects.

Here’s my advice to those of you wishing to survive in business.

When designing a private dwelling;
LISTEN to the clients requirements.
FORGET your own flights of fancy.
RESPECT the Client – he pays your salary.
FOLLOW the Clients instructions.
DON’T ARGUE or tell your client you know better, unless you have sound structural reasons.
CUT your inflated prices. That’ll happen anyhow, do or die.

Sounds to me like you actually didnt require an architect at all !!!

All you required was someone proficient in CAD to draw up ‘your’ design and submit for planning…. cap in hand ‘yes sir, yes sir, three bags full sir’….

Thats like going into a doctor with a pain in you arm, and when he tells you youve a heart problem, you tell him to shut up and concentrate on the pain in your arm!!

@Meccano wrote:

I came on here a year ago at my wits end, looking for advice. All I got was cat calling and abuse.
Now the shoes on the other foot. Don’t expect my sympathy.

Here’s my advice to those of you wishing to survive in business.

When designing a private dwelling;
LISTEN to the clients requirements.
FORGET your own flights of fancy.
RESPECT the Client – he pays your salary.
FOLLOW the Clients instructions.
DON’T ARGUE or tell your client you know better, unless you have sound structural reasons.
CUT your inflated prices. That’ll happen anyhow, do or die.

LISTEN to a client’s requirements. Then follows the extrapolation of a brief and mutual understanding of same. Advise the client of your opinions and / or reservations at all times.If the Client has the house designed and wants you to draw it up point him in the direction of a drawing service

FORGET your flights of fancy – discuss the design options with the Client, all within the budget available. If the Client has the house designed and wants you to draw it up point him in the direction of a drawing service

RESPECT the Client – he pays your salary. RESPECT the client’s wishes and fulfill your duty of care under the terms of the agreement. Respect the notion of good, well mannered, relevant design. Advise the client of your opinions and / or reservations at all times. If the Client has the house designed and wants you to draw it up point him in the direction of a drawing service

FOLLOW the Clients instructions. insomuch as they are relevant, well considered and in keeping with regulations and good, well mannered, relevant design. Advise the client of your opinions and / or reservations at all times. If the Client has the house designed and wants you to draw it up point him in the direction of a drawing service

DON’T ARGUE or tell your client you know better, unless you have sound structural reasons. Every single tiny section of a normal design process requires dialogue and understanding between both parties. If the Client has the house designed and wants you to draw it up point him in the direction of a drawing service

CUT your inflated prices. advise the client under the terms of the agreement what they will receive for the fee agreed. You can – both – always walk away

if you look at this thread you’ll see that most of the advice – mine included – was to engage in a relationship that was mutually beneficial. The key word here is mutual – something that you don’t seem to do. It appears that your experience was just a meeting of two similarly intransigent individuals when all you really wanted was a living breathing pencil to hold

I don’t need your sympathy and if anything this confirms my resolve – stated many times over many threads – that I would rather work in a chipper than deal with one-off residential work of any description. And I fully expect to be unemployed by easter.

I’ve tried to read this thread, but I keep getting stuck on this bit

@Meccano wrote:

15%

Is that a typo, or did he say FIFTEEN PERCENT ?

As noted a couple of years ago by PVC King (or was it Thomond Park…), the accuracy of Google ads is sometimes akin to landing a 747 on a sixpence.

Copied from the top of this page 5 minutes ago:

@ctesiphon wrote:

the accuracy of Google ads is sometimes akin to landing a 747 on a sixpence

Lollers 😀

@gunter wrote:

Is that a typo, or did he say 15%

I was wondering about that too…

Well he could have employed David Grant Architect and got a few houses in the back garden. and one on the front too.

As an architect I would have been reluctant to take on someone else’s design due to the obvious liability issue. The architect would be taking on full responsibility and would, therefore, open themselves up to be sued based on someone else’s work – A small but important point.

This is not meant as a criticism of your design (I have no idea what it is like) – in any case, your architect should have fully explained this to you as being an issue.

LISTEN to the voice of Architectural integrity and not to your client’s prosaic requests based on a combination of base knowledge and inflated sense of import
FORGET your client’s incessant voice. It is a tedious but necessary evil on the righteous path toward Architecture
RESPECT Architecture. Not your client. Do not bear witness to false idols
FOLLOW the righteous path to Architecture This is the true path. Do not be disorientated by client requests
DON’T ARGUE with the voice of Architecture .It is the voice of truth. All other voices are but distractions sent to test.
CUT the head of anyone who stands in the way of the righteous path toward Architecture. Ignorant and tedious foes line the righteous path toward Architecture. Anyone slain on this route shall not be seen as an offering to Architecture.

@what? wrote:

LISTEN to the voice of Architectural integrity and not to your client’s prosaic requests based on a combination of base knowledge and inflated sense of import
FORGET your client’s incessant voice. It is a tedious but necessary evil on the righteous path toward Architecture
RESPECT Architecture. Not your client. Do not bear witness to false idols
FOLLOW the righteous path to Architecture This is the true path. Do not be disorientated by client requests
DON’T ARGUE with the voice of Architecture .It is the voice of truth. All other voices are but distractions sent to test.
CUT the head of anyone who stands in the way of the righteous path toward Architecture. Ignorant and tedious foes line the righteous path toward Architecture. Anyone slain on this route shall not be seen as an offering to Architecture.

😀 – your dead right! Hope Meccano does not see this – I can just see steam coming out his ears and then an explosion.