Mr Voting Machine’s Transport Plan
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i wonder will people be concerned about cracks appearing in their homes and business when they start to dig out the tunnels for the metro? i remember hearing a saying once… “people in ireland who own land also own anything under it right down to the core of the earth”. this rule does not apply in all countries though because in some countries there is always a gap to allow for tunnels and so on. how do they get out of that one here so? i don’t know whether it’s true or not.
Ho Ho Ho……and barrel of rhum….!!!
May I take this opportunity to humbly recommend a “Cracking Good Read” to go alongside Mssrs McDonald and Nix`s weighty tome..?
Its not strictly about Dublin,nor about Architecture yet it DOES manage to encompass an understanding of and fondness for that very topic….
My Lords,Ladies and Gentlemen I give you……..“THE BUS WE LOVED”
By Travis Elborough.
Published in London by Granta.All I can say is try to accquire a copy and have a read of it…….if only to doff your hat at the memory of those who actually had a feeling for the principles of good design and the vision to make it happen….. 😮
alpha, i amn’t sure this is an important point, in countries where you don’t own the land under your house, you still get compensation if tunnelling puts cracks in your walls and conversely, the bit of the underground you own that the tunnel goes through isn’t actually worth very much.
I feel that the emphasis put on the CPO’s of sub strata is a little wide of the mark.
Taking the interconnector it will go underground somewhere west of Inchicore engineering works travel directly under CIE propertyuntil it reaches the Guinness holding and will be at a considerable depth before it reaches any of the smaller holdings to be acquired.
At those types of depth there is likely to be about 4 days of vibration disturbance when the bore machine is directly underneath a property. The compensation amounts payable will be extremely small except those to large holdings such as Guinness or say the Stephens Green Shopping centre. There will be no account taken of the surface values as sub-strata has no locational advantage that translates into a financial value.
If a tunnel is bored under curtilage alone the payments will be in the order of 625-1000 euro if it hits a return payments will be in the order of 3000 euro rising to 5000-7500 for travelling under the main body of the structure.
I imagine that like the Port Tunnel the professional fees and costs of holding the enquiry will exceed the compensation payable. It is interesting that little or no structural damage was recorded on the port tunnel route and the few claims actually recorded related to boring at a depth that will not be present in this rail project.
The Port Tunnel is looking more like a fiasco every day with leaks and insufficient roof concrete – if DCC have to pay another 400m euro as the contractors want (despite a design/build contract!) it will seriously damage the interconnector’s chances.
Has anybody heard of the outcome of the investigations into the somewhat fortunate Break-In at the site offices in Whitehall where a stolen JCB was apparently employed to demolish some portakabins n stuff…
No big deal cept that in the process some documentation of “Importance to the Councils rebuttal of the consortium`s claims” miraculously disappeared…..These Northside gougers have a well developed sense of whats valuable…!!! 🙂 🙂 🙂Looks to me like a decent enough thread to add into the planning section of the forum Paul. What do you think? Would any of the posters mind, any opinions? Might be nice to get a couple of transportation threads rubbing together in a sub-area of the Irish planning section. Any merit in an idea like that? I mean, since getting around by whatever means of transport, seems to be a sore point for many people now. And heck, we live in one of the most expensive places on the planet – which normally means you get something above the average for your money – except in our case that is. I can already see the Irish planning section, beginning to lose a sense of its own identity. It would be a good idea, in my personal opinion to tie it up better right now, from the point of view of its own future development. A Transport section, a conservation section, a sustainable design section – couple of sub-headings like that may not go amiss – and serve to keep a few good threads, taking different ways to look at the same thing – together, and make a kind of synergy between different ways to look at some things. Like transport for instance.
Just a thought.
Also, as it is the new year I decided to bring this up: A lot of people who find themselves in Irish media at the moment, seem to have appointed themselves as ‘experts’ on the built environment. I am thinking in particular of a few people from the RIAI side, and while they add a lot to the debate. They also make some quite outlandish claims on behalf of every Irish person that ever lived. Like, one in particular that struck me as taking too many priveleges: “The Irish were spoiled by poverty”. I mean, it is a very convenient re-writing of history for a certain group of individuals who are big and powerful within the RIAI. They talk about the Christian brothers ‘writing the history’, but Architecture isn’t far behind the clerical figure heads, in recent times. When you listen to them in the media.
Brian O’ Hanlon.
Bits of a nice piece in Irish Times article, last April by Sheila O’Flanagan.
The man and I decided to do the retail experience last weekend. [break] So we made the trip out to Dundrum Town Centre (which, of course, is not actually the town centre at all but just the much vaunted shopping centre) on the basis that this was where the retail pulse now existed and it should be able to fulfil all our shopping needs. We did it by public transport, choosing bus and Luas to get us there. At the Luas station we had the option of buying an integrated bus and Luas ticket but the bus driver could only sell us a single bus ticket. I know the integrated ticket thing is supposed to happen soon but why can the Luas do it already and not the bus?
After the bus and Luas trip, the man and I were falling apart with hunger and so we checked out the eating emporia. Unfortunately – because there are plenty of food outlets – we chose the one where they were making sandwiches to order and the time from queuing to receiving was 25 minutes. [break] The 160 cm fitted sheets were as elusive at Dundrum as they’ve been everywhere else in the city and so we backtracked to St Stephen’s Green, called into a few more shops in a somewhat haphazard and very uninspired way (I bought shoes though – somehow I always end up buying shoes) and then completed our global experience by nipping in to Salamander in Andrew Street for a bottle of red wine and some almost authentic tapas. The 123 (without a doubt one of the best bus services in Ireland) back to Marino got us within striking distance of home and then we collapsed in front of the telly.
Did anybody go onto the http://www.transport21.ie/map.html website. It seems its only has 2 pages one the home page and the other one the map and thats it. You cant click on any of the links if you do it will lead to either 1 the homepage or 2 the map. There doesnt seem to be anyting else on this site. Do they not want the public to get information on it?
I got this from another website and since this discussion took place on the 20-21st of June the overall http://www.transport21.ie website has been taken down; this is not a good omen
Hardly surprising really when one considers great chunks of the NDP remain unfulfilled…….Still no sign of the extra Buses promised to Bus Atha Cliath.
Mr Cullen now has so many pieces of leglislation to “Bring to Cabinet” that he will need a messenger boys bike….Perhaps he should have chosen Bloomsday to load it all up and pedal up to Kildare St….
Anyone know how to spell Muppet ?? 😡After a few days reading about Mr Transport Plan’s voting machines, how nice to be able to get back to his current task.:) This is from today’s Irish Times.
@The Irish Times wrote:
Metro line stop for city plaza urged by RPA
John DownesThe proposed new metro line linking Dublin city centre with the airport should have a stop located in the main plaza of the “underused” Department of Education buildings in Marlborough Street, according to a submission to the Railway Procurement Agency’s (RPA) public consultation process from city centre traders.
The Dublin City Business Association (DCBA) believes that if located under the plaza, the north city centre metro station could accommodate large numbers of pedestrians exiting and entering the metro.
The Department of Education is due to move to Mullingar within three years as part of the Government’s planned decentralisation process.
In its submission supporting the proposed central route for the metro, business association chief executive Tom Coffey says that with a footfall of 60 million per year already, O’Connell Street would become too congested if a metro stop were to be located there.
The association’s members include Arnotts, Boots, Dublin Bus, Marks and Spencer and Roches Stores, employing more than 25,000 people in the city centre.
In previous correspondence with the association, the RPA has expressed concerns about space constraints in the Marlborough Street plaza.
If approved, it may necessitate the acquisition of extra buildings and demolition work, it also believes.
However, this is something which the DCBA disputes. It believes a metro station at the main plaza might drive development and economic activity east of O’Connell Street, and create a “joined-up” economic area from Smithfield to the IFSC.
On the south side of the city, the business association wishes to see a stop at St Stephen’s Green, which is in line with the intentions of the RPA.
“This [Marlborough Street] location also has the advantage that it is within a two to five-minute walk of O’Connell Street, the quays, and the Luas IFSC, and hence in the heart of the central business district transport hub,” Mr Coffey said.
His comments are contained in the association’s submission to the second round of public consultation on the metro north route, sent to the RPA last week and seen by The Irish Times.
“It is also between O’Connell Street and the Docklands, which is an area with significant potential for development of new business and customer growth.”
The association also claimed that it is the “norm” in European cities for the main street to be reserved for pedestrians, buses, bicycles and shoppers’ cars.
The adjacent streets are then used for light rail and metro, it added.
© The Irish Times@Seamus O’G wrote:
After a few days reading about Mr Transport Plan’s voting machines, how nice to be able to get back to his current task.:) This is from today’s Irish Times.
While I think the “Marlborough Plaza” is a wonderful idea. I think iot will do wonder for the area. 🙂
However in regards to the light metro system stop, this is a very poor idea. And just when you thought the RPA started to understand the term ‘intergrated’ when they proposed the Light metro to have a stop at Druncondra Train station.
I love to see somebody comming from the Red Luas line (lets say from Tallaght) heading to the airport, wheeling their luggage over 350meters in cold, wet & windy winter evenings, and for them to turn around and say, “Oh I am so happy that they but the light metro stop so far from the Luas stop. I really do enjoy getting cold and wet.” :rolleyes:
But then again, this isnt really suprising. The current Airport Stop proposal requires you to walk 750 meters from the Great Souther hotel to the front door to the airport terminal. They must have forgotten that our winter weather is cold wet and windy. 😡
As for city centre businness mixing with public transport planning, well just go back to the time when city centre business but pressure on the then minister for transport Mary O’Rourke, to not join the Red and Green Luas line. Great Idea that was. :rolleyes:
@Irish Independent, Today wrote:
Metro to save millions by banning tunnelling payouts
HOUSEHOLDERS and businesses affected by work on Dublin’s new underground Metro won’t get a cent in compensation for extensive tunnelling under their property.
A new law kickstarted yesterday by the Government put a nil value on land below 10 metres.
The timing could not have been better as the exact route of the Metro – from Dublin city centre to Swords via Dublin Airport – is due to be announced by Transport Minister Martin Cullen as early as tomorrow. Environment Minister Dick Roche said the end of underground compensation will potentially save “both time and money in the Metro project”.
It means the millions in compensation paid out to householders and businesses as a result of the Dublin Port tunnel underground tunnelling will not be repeated during the Metro project.
It has been confirmed that the new Metro line will run underground from St Stephen’s Green through the Grafton Street area, past the gates of Trinity College and down Westmoreland Street to O’Connell Bridge. From there it will continue underground to the revamped Mater Hospital, and underground stations at Drumcondra, Griffith Avenue and DCU.
From DCU, the agency’s preferred route is overground to two stations at Ballymun, Metro Park and on to the airport, where it will run underground again.
From the airport, it will travel overground to Fosterstown, Swords Estuary and finally the terminus in Lissenhall. One of the city-centre station’s entrances is to be located on the northside, possibly at Bachelors Walk, the other on the southside of the river. The Railway Procurement Agency believes that underground mining will reduce traffic restrictions during the underground works at the station. These are set to start in 2009.
Meanwhile, rogue builders with a history of unfinished or badly left estates will be refused planning permissions under new laws approved yesterday in a new planning and development act.
The minister kickstarted section 9 of the Act which will enable planning authorities to withhold planning permissions from rogue developers on the basis of past history of non-compliance and not completing housing estates.
“Any such abuse of our planning code cannot be tolerated,” said Mr Roche yesterday.
“In the past, some rogue developers have been getting away with not doing their jobs.”
Until now, planning authorities have been required to prove an applicant’s history of non-compliance with permissions or conditions of permissions before the High Court before they could act.
Burden
The new measure reverses the burden of proof and should make it easier for local authorities to tackle bad developers, insisted the minister.
Other important provisions approved yesterday include new powers for An Bord Pleanala to deal with appeals made primarily, or solely, with the intention of extracting money from the applicant.
Mr Roche said occasional spurious and groundless appeals were an unfortunate feature of our system.
“They pervert our democratic processes and divert time and resources away from dealing with authentic and justified appeals,” he said.
Treacy Hogan
I remember reading that there was some chancer in Booterstown who was claiming compensation for damage to his house caused by the port tunnel works.:D
It also looks like they may be sticking a station on the metro under the actual river. Does anyone know of a precedent for this elsewhere?
@TLM wrote:
Westminster station is also under the Thames i think.
Doesn’t seem to be quite under the river, though it is close, according to this link:
http://www.raeng.org.uk/news/publications/ingenia/issue9/Mair.pdfThanks also Constat – can’t find anything on St. Michel-Notre Dame, apart from it being the location of a terrorist attack in 1995.:eek:
@Transport21 website wrote:
CULLEN WELCOMES OFFICIAL OPENING OF DUBLIN PORT TUNNEL
20th December 2006
More >>CULLEN OFFICIALLY OPENS KINSALEBEG REALIGNMENT ROAD PROJECT
8th December 2006
More >>CULLEN TURNS SOD ON N7 NENAGH / LIMERICK 38KMS ROAD PROJECT
7th December 2006
More >>CULLEN OFFICIALLY OPENS FIRST SECTION OF THE N6 KINNEGAD TO KILBEGGAN ROAD PROJECT
5th December 2006You’ve got to ask, if you look at the details of the press releases on the front page of the website for “Transport21”, at http://www.transport21.ie, whether the whole thing is about transport or whether it’s about Martin Cullen.:D
yeh funnily enough i was on that site the other day and came to the exact same conclusion. He’s not a Minister for Transport, He’s a publicity hungry egotistical incompetent fckwit whose achievements can be collated on a postage stamp and whose mistakes would require another internet to discuss:
Cullen forgets the Bray Metro in T21
Cullen omits Tallaght-City Metro
Cullen takes almost a year to approve the Kildare Route Project
Cullen takes 6 months to read a 30 page report on the DTA
Cullen then forgets the DTA for a while
Cullen farts about with BX
Cullen gives Dublin Bus 20 buses in 5 years
Cullen allows property developers to determine Transport Strategy
Cullen likes roads
Cullen opens roads
Cullen gets re-elected
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