Metro North-South

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    • #710540
      Gaudi
      Participant

      Seems like pretty good suggestion. Airport to Sandyford, good route, plenty of capacity and cheaper than current proposal. Maybe just a bit late in the day..

      From Indo today

      Metro rethink ‘could save taxpayer €1bn’

      By STEPHEN O’FARRELL
      Monday May 11 2009
      ‘Only 12 additional houses would be acquired’

      REDRAWING the route for Metro North would reduce the cost by €1bn while streamlining public transport, says a top consultant.

      The alternative route, unlike the €5bn Metro North plan, would connect to the Luas green line and provide the first north-south transport corridor through Dublin, running from beyond Swords all the way down to Sandyford.

      The plan, designed by engineer Gerry Duggan who devised the existing Luas routes, will be put to a Bord Pleanala oral hearing on Metro North when it resumes next month.

      Mr Duggan suggests that huge savings can be made by reducing the amount of tunnel boring required.

      Known as ‘Metro North-South’, Mr Duggan’s option would also carry more passengers than Metro North and solve the capacity problems of the Luas green line by using longer and wider trams.

      Plans for the Luas BX interconnector to link the existing two lines could also be scrapped, while construction works on St Stephen’s Green would be reduced from five years to a maximum three years.

      Mr Duggan said adopting the Metro North-South proposal would add just one year to the current project’s completion date. “It would make vital savings for the exchequer, by eliminating the need for the proposed Luas BX interconnector and reducing tunnelling costs,” Mr Duggan told the Irish Independent.

      “This can be achieved by reducing the amount of tunnelling required in the north city, by starting the tunnel in the grounds of Clonliffe College, Drumcondra rather than north of Ballymun, as proposed by the Rail Procurement Agency.

      Limited

      “Indeed, anyone who has ever sat in the upper stands in Croke Park and looked north over Hill 16 will be aware that the view is of virtually continuous parkland, which permits the construction of a Metro line from there to the airport with limited tunnelling.

      “The line can be routed through parkland, undeveloped sites used for the construction of the Port Tunnel and along the extensive grass shoulder of the Swords Road, from Whitehall to Coolock Lane before crossing over the M1 into Santry Demesne under Northwood Ave and then over the M50, to join the RPA’s proposed Metro North alignment to the airport and Swords.

      “Only 12 additional houses would have to be acquired to complete Metro North-South, which is similar to the number acquired to develop the Luas Red Line and Iarnrod Eireann’s Kildare line four-tracking project.”

      Mr Duggan’s proposal also provides for Metro stops on each of the key orbital routes in the north city at Griffith Ave, Collins Ave and Oscar Traynor Rd/Coolock Lane.

      By providing frequent shuttle buses along these routes a ‘fishbone system’ can be provided, as recently recommended by Veolia, the operator of the existing Luas services and a bidder for the Metro North project.

      The metro would no longer run through the heart of Ballymun, but a station would be placed within walking distance of the area. Dublin City University’s stop would also be moved slightly further away from the campus, from a distance of 300m to 600m.

      It would also connect Beaumont Hospital and Clonshaugh Industrial Estate to the Metro and provide for pedestrian accessed stops at Northwood Ave, Shantalla Rd and Richmond Rd.

      A Department of Transport spokeswoman said it would be inappropriate to comment on an alternative route while the planning hearing was ongoing.

      – STEPHEN O’FARRELL

    • #807154
      Anonymous
      Inactive

      @Gaudi wrote:

      who devised the existing Luas routes

      ‘Top consultant’, eh? I believe he invented sliced bread too. To be honest, I stopped reading when I got as far as this line.

      Same story, virtually word for word, appeared in one of those morning freesheets, which suggests regurgitation of a press release.

    • #807155
      Anonymous
      Inactive

      Stupid to bypass DCU, nearly 10,000 mostly daily users missed out on

    • #807156
      Anonymous
      Inactive

      I admire the effort…

      To be honest with you the luas is slow and gets caught up in all kinds of things…
      (And you cannot take your bike on it)
      But it does improve the air locally

      It is interesting how the RPA are referring to it as a metro now not metro north…

      not the U2 line or something…

    • #807157
      Anonymous
      Inactive

      Well the problems with this idea are:
      Cabra, Phibsborough, Finglas and the new DIT campus(22,000 students) will lose their luas connection.
      Ballymun and DCU will lose their metro stations in favour of Coolock Lane!
      by moving the line eastwards as is suggested (this was one of the origional route options), this will mean that alot of the stations will be inside walking distance of the already existing DART line.

      This plan only seeks to cut costs, not improve services. As we should know in Ireland already, cutting corners to save money is not a good idea when it comes to infrastructure.

      although I agree in principal to having a direct link between the green line and the metro. The rest of this plan is not very palitable for the commuter.

    • #807158
      admin
      Keymaster

      @The Indo – I’m hoping the ‘transport consultant’ is aware that the dart exists wrote:

      and provide the first north-south transport corridor through Dublin

      So the north south DART line has been wiped off the map then ? Whenever the inevitable decision is made to extend metro north 20 years from now and plough up the green yet again, it should of course head west.

    • #807159
      Anonymous
      Inactive

      Eh there will be a direct connection between theGreen Line and Metro North. At Stephen’s Green – i’m farily certain we discussed it here. And also it is policy to have a Metro from the Airport to Bray eventually. The rest is just bollox – “devised” the Luas??? I’m sure the team of planners and engineers that made up the DTI in 1994 would be thrilled to read that

      In any case the hearing can only judge the application before them. Consideration of this route is beyond it’s remit as far as I know…

    • #807160
      Anonymous
      Inactive

      The part of this proposal which makes complete sense is scrapping the BX line and and linking Metro North to the Luas. If they just dug up a little bit more of Dublin city centre, they could effectively turn the Luas into a metro and you have your north-south line. They could fund it with the money they save by foregoing the ridiculous duplication which the BX line represents.

    • #807161
      Anonymous
      Inactive

      Linking MN to the Luas is NOT “part of this proposal” – it’s part of every proposal since 2001

    • #807162
      Anonymous
      Inactive

      So you’re telling me that I could hop on a train at Dublin airport and go all the way to Sandyford without changing trains? That’s news to me!

    • #807163
      Anonymous
      Inactive

    • #807164
      Anonymous
      Inactive

      No, not yet. And under Duggan’s proposal you wont either.

    • #807165
      Anonymous
      Inactive

      @rumpelstiltskin wrote:

      The part of this proposal which makes complete sense is scrapping the BX line and and linking Metro North to the Luas. If they just dug up a little bit more of Dublin city centre, they could effectively turn the Luas into a metro and you have your north-south line. They could fund it with the money they save by foregoing the ridiculous duplication which the BX line represents.

      The original DTO propoal, gutted in Transport 21, was to run the metro line from just north of Bray, Sandyford, Dundrum, tunnel from ranelagh into city and northside to airport/ swords. I’m not sure they’re even giving themselves the option with continuing on and linking with luas the way the st stephen’s green terminus is designed.

    • #807166
      Anonymous
      Inactive

      SD i think they are – any future Metro South would emerge around Ranelagh as originally intended. What happens way out around Ballyogan where there’s a whole rake of crossings is anyone’s guess, if Metro is still to be segregated rail?

    • #807167
      Anonymous
      Inactive

      @SunnyDub wrote:

      The original DTO propoal, gutted in Transport 21, was to run the metro line from just north of Bray, Sandyford, Dundrum, tunnel from ranelagh into city and northside to airport/ swords. I’m not sure they’re even giving themselves the option with continuing on and linking with luas the way the st stephen’s green terminus is designed.

      Since the MN tunnel actually ends in the southeast corner of Stephen’s Green, there won’t ever be a need to dig it up again. I presume any extension would sink a whole at the Iveagh Gardens – though it’s been pointed out that this is where we should be digging MN from.
      @alonso wrote:

      SD i think they are – any future Metro South would emerge around Ranelagh as originally intended. What happens way out around Ballyogan where there’s a whole rake of crossings is anyone’s guess, if Metro is still to be segregated rail?

      I always assumed the part beyond Sandyford was never a goer for upgrade to Metro. They’ve certainly designed it that way.

    • #807168
      Anonymous
      Inactive

      Yep, as far as I know, the T21 plan was abandoned and the extension is unsuitable for metro; the route past Sandyford “visits” as many green fields as possible on it’s way and has not been built to accommodate the planned wider carriages to support metro type capacities. If some of the Green line ever gets metrified, then Sandyford will be as far as it can go. I very much doubt this will ever happen; the RPA seem far more interested in dedicating themselves to developer-led extensions into countryside of the existing overburdened disconnected lines.

      I’m not even that interested in what is being proposed here. The route selection process is over; Duggan should have made a media issue of this a year or two ago and maybe it could have been compared and evaluated with the other route options. At this stage, the story represents newspaper column filler only.

    • #807169
      Anonymous
      Inactive

      Implementation of this plan would represent one of the most serious errors which could be committed in the efforts to achieve an integrated transport network for Dublin.

      Building a line between between Sandyford and the Airport/Swords, which would already run relatively close to the current DART line, would render it effectively impossible to eventually connect areas like South-Western Dublin (including well-populated areas like Tallaght) and North-Western Dublin (including well-populated areas like Finglas) into an integrated network in which most journeys on the rail network would require just one change.

      For a city which intends to develop a rail network, and which is effectively faced with a clean slate upon/under which to build it, it would be a monumental mistake.

    • #807170
      Anonymous
      Inactive

      Bring in the Germans!

    • #807171
      Anonymous
      Inactive

      Stupid idea – lets save money by routing it away from where people live – tit

    • #807172
      Anonymous
      Inactive

      from F McD in the IT

      THE TIMETABLE for Metro North has been thrown into further doubt by An Bord Pleanála’s decision to request detailed additional information from the Railway Procurement Agency (RPA) on key aspects of the project.

      An RPA spokesman conceded yesterday that the board’s request “will result in a delay” in determining its railway order application, but he said the agency would be “working flat out” to meet the October 1st deadline for submitting the new information.

      “RPA is examining the implications of this delay and will be meeting the shortlisted bidders in the near future to discuss the programme for the final tender stage”, he added.

      The application for a railway order was submitted to An Bord Pleanála last September. An oral hearing opened on April 1st but was adjourned on April 29th to give the planning inspector time to digest new information submitted by the RPA.

      Following this examination, the board has now sought more information on the project. The RPA had expected a decision from An Bord Pleanála on its railway order application by September 4th.

      If approved, the two shortlisted consortiums would then make their final offers, one of which would be chosen for submission to the Government before Christmas.

      Now it seems improbable that the appeals board will make a decision before the end of this year, even if the RPA meets the October 1st deadline.

      The board’s further information request seeks more details about the environmental impact on “sensitive” properties such as the Rotunda and Mater hospitals, the Fitzwilliam Hotel on St Stephen’s Green and Corpus Christi national school in Drumcondra.

    • #807173
      Anonymous
      Inactive

      2050? rte… we can lay some high speed cables aswell

    • #807174
      Anonymous
      Inactive

      2050? rte… we can lay some high speed cables aswell

      :confused:

    • #807175
      Anonymous
      Inactive

      I think he’s suggesting that since RTÉ have made some rumblings about selling some of their land for development, we should look at extending Metro “North” Out as far as Donnybrook?

    • #807176
      Anonymous
      Inactive

      coz it’s Miiiiiiiiiiiles from the DART and has a shit bus service?

    • #807177
      Anonymous
      Inactive

      @alonso wrote:

      coz it’s Miiiiiiiiiiiles from the DART and has a shit bus service?

      It’s about halfway between the DART line and the Green Luas line. It’s also well servedby the 46a QBC which has a less than 5 minute frequency

    • #807178
      Anonymous
      Inactive

      yeh i was being sarcastic. RTE staff can walk from Sydney Parade and can hop straight on a 46A-E, 84(X) and a myriad services from many parts of Dublin. The case for Metro to serve what is not a large site anyway, is one that should be confined to missarchi’s basement

    • #807179
      Anonymous
      Inactive

      @alonso wrote:

      yeh i was being sarcastic. RTE staff can walk from Sydney Parade and can hop straight on a 46A-E, 84(X) and a myriad services from many parts of Dublin. The case for Metro to serve what is not a large site anyway, is one that should be confined to missarchi’s basement

      Agreed…

      Anyone for gulf?

    • #807180
      Anonymous
      Inactive

      Forgive me for being a noob on this issue, I was just wondering:

      Are there no plans for a metro line to cover the major tourist hotspots of the city, and create new ones? It seems at present to be more or less designed for commuters and people getting to the airport.

      Wouldn’t stations at Temple Bar, Grafton Street, College Green, Heuston Station and St James’s Gate be a great addition to getting around the city? And are there station planned for the docklands? And wouldn’t a station in the new Museum District in Smithfield by like an extra shot of adrenaline into the area, helping it become a real, organic cultural quarter for the city?

      Sorry this is probably all out there I just can’t get my head around all the different plans etc.

      EDIT: Also want to echo missarchi’s thought in another thread about the metro:

      @missarchi wrote:

      I would also like to see bullet trains run through the inter connector every hour cork > Belfast

    • #807181
      Anonymous
      Inactive

      @Yixian wrote:

      the new Museum District in Smithfield etc.

      What new Museum district? I haven’t heard of this!

      Check out the interconnector/ Dart underground it covers some of the locations u mentioned above and integrates with other modes of transport to connect the others 🙂

      http://www.irishrail.ie/projects/dart_underground.asp

    • #807182
      Anonymous
      Inactive

      @ac1976 wrote:

      What new Museum district? I haven’t heard of this!

      Check out the interconnector/ Dart underground it covers some of the locations u mentioned above and integrates with other modes of transport to connect the others 🙂

      http://www.irishrail.ie/projects/dart_underground.asp

      I just read about it recently: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Museum_District,_Dublin,_Ireland

      It sounds to me like ust the sort of thing Dublin needs, I could easily see it becoming Dublin’s answer to Southbank if the city plays it’s cards right.

      And I hadn’t even heard of the underground DART plan! All these developments in Dublin.. it’s so hard to picture how it will all come together. I don’t actually live in Dublin at the moment but I plan to, and I follow these boards with excitement at the prospects of a city I already love becoming even better.

      But I’d be really disappointed if they get this Metro plan wrong. Is the plan not to create a London/Paris style underground transport service to get people to the main hubs and attractions of the city quickly? Having stations on a service like that at places like Temple Bar and Grafton Street and the docklands etc. would really bring the whole city together and make the area served by each station all the more iconic.

      And it really all has to come together as a cohesive network that anyone, be them from Dublin or Beijing, can just take as being “the Dublin Underground”.

      If it turns out to be just an express link to the airport and suburbs… that’d be a huge shame.

      So this DART line will interconnect with the metros? Will it have stations along these streets like the London underground? Maybe this will effectively be the circle line to the more utilitarian North and West lines?

      *enters a lucid dream*

      Ding! “Welcome to – Museum, exit here for the National Museum and… Tate Dublin” 😉 😉

      *watches as crowds of excited tourists funnel out.

    • #807183
      Anonymous
      Inactive

      yixian, try not wear out your welcome before you even get here.

      I wouldn’t trust Wikipedia, especially on this topic as I dont think there is anything behind that. The areas named, National Museum and collins sq are not even in Smithfield anyway. You should check out the Dublin City Development plan, which may be still in draft on http://www.dublincity.ie and forget about wikipedia

    • #807184
      Anonymous
      Inactive

      All the same I just hope metro north, west and this DART underground can come together as a unified underground and provide access to all the areas anyone would want on a typical day out or holiday to Dublin. I know Dublin is a small city but as a frequent visitor I almost feel like the more stations in the city centre the better, the one issue I have with Dublin is even it’s city centre still feels just slightly disjointed. Am I wrong to say that?

      You guys know 100x better than me, I am just trying to learn about the city and what it’s becoming.

    • #807185
      Anonymous
      Inactive

      All the info u need about DARTUnderground is in this video:

      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k_M6JyxNnDY

      here’s a map of the proposed network some of which already exists

      http://transport21.ie/Maps/Transport_21_Maps/Navigation.html

      It includes 3 luas lines:

      Lucan to Trinity
      Tallaght/CityWest to Connolly/The Point
      and
      Broombridge to Bray

      Also 2 Metro lines

      Swords to St Stephen’s Green
      and
      Tallaght to Dardistown via Blanch and Clondalkin

      And 2 Dart lines:
      Drogheda to Hazelhatch
      and Greystones to Maynooth/Pace

      some of the luas extensions are already under construction. You can find out all you want about the planned new lines at http://www.transport21.ie

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