Meanwhile….
- This topic has 17 replies, 10 voices, and was last updated 21 years, 2 months ago by Aken.
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February 17, 2003 at 12:38 pm #706019urbanistoParticipant
Over here in London it is Day 1 of the congestion charging scheme and it all seems to be going smoothly so far. Interestingly Belfast is one of 30 other UK cities considering the scheme. Its only a matter of time before Dublin gets in on the act.
You might be interested to know that Ken didn’t need to litter the city with and excess unsightly signs posts and columns to mount the cameras on. Mr Keegan take note….!
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February 17, 2003 at 1:38 pm #724712ewParticipant
I do hope it goes smoothly for him. If this scheme fails it’ll be years before it gets tried again. Fingers crossed!
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February 17, 2003 at 2:24 pm #724713d_d_dallasParticipant
Isn’t it already in operation in some historical city centre in the UK? How is that going?
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February 17, 2003 at 2:54 pm #724714bigjoeParticipant
oxford i think has something in operation for a few years now.
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February 17, 2003 at 3:05 pm #724715urbanistoParticipant
Its Durham actually. They have a World Hertitage Site in the city centre and the traffic was destrying it. Apparently it decreased the traffic levels by 70% and the charge is only £2. Most people are positive about it although it was only a small core area.
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February 17, 2003 at 6:25 pm #724716d_d_dallasParticipant
Great to hear traffic dropped by 70% – but does that mean a like for like increase in public transport usage into the centre or does it mean people “rat run” around the outskirts, or just not go in at all?
Probably not an issue if the area is a small one. But 8 sq miles of central London… -
February 17, 2003 at 7:37 pm #724717dc3Participant
The Durham test case is only a tiny area, in the very centre near the cathederal and castle.
The London test, when we we see it properly with the schools back next week, is much more mbitious.
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February 18, 2003 at 8:26 am #724718ewParticipant
Is school traffic such an issue in central london? Here it’s very much a suburban problem.
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February 25, 2003 at 4:11 pm #724719urbanistoParticipant
Well, it was baited breath yesterday as the school half term came to an end and normal rates of traffic returned. however, once again traffic in London was down by 25% and the streets looked unnaturally empty. It’s truly amazing the difference the congestion charge is making. In fact there is even talk of Transport for London or TfL (the body overseeing the charge) being worried that not enough people will choose to pay the charge and that they will loose money! TfL however are responding that (a) it will be 6 months before they can truly make a judgement on the charge and (b) its all about decreasing congestion and air pollution rather than making money anyhow.
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February 25, 2003 at 5:39 pm #724720d_d_dallasParticipant
Any statements on how the money is to be spent?
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February 25, 2003 at 8:18 pm #724721AnonymousInactive
To be spent on buses and bus lanes. Because the underground railway network is already running beyond capacity at peak times.
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February 25, 2003 at 8:20 pm #724722Paul ClerkinKeymaster
Sounds like its working. What’s it like on the ground there Hugh?
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February 25, 2003 at 8:35 pm #724723AnonymousInactive
Although I have a car, I hardly ever drive into the centre anyway, (always go by tube outside the rush hours) so the only difference this makes to me is a pleasanter atmosphere when I’m in town.
Being in the centre feels like they said it would – like the school holidays, when roads are quiet, but all the time. Except in Oxford Street, which has long been closed to private vehicles but is still nose-to-tail buses and taxis.
Can’t speak for the roads around the periphery, which some said would become choked with people taking evasive action. I haven’t heard of this happening.
I’m amazed it’s been so successful, because I thought a charge set as low as £5 would hardly put anyone off. A return tube fare is £4, after all.
My guess is that the charge has put off the casual, non-essential drivers for the moment, but that they’ll creep back slowly and the numbers will rise. If so, all the mayor needs to do is raise the charge a little, and they’ll all go away again.
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February 26, 2003 at 10:08 am #724724urbanistoParticipant
Yesterday the mayor ruled out raising the charge for another 10 years – which seems like a hostage to fortune. He suggested that the scheme was proving more sucessful than expected. However, this is the same mayor who was asking for the scheme to be judged only after 6 months so it might be wise if he takes his own advice and leaves such decisions until then.
Which brings us back to whether the charge would be any good for Dublin. The Northside people had a piece on it with most people reacting positively.
There are the usual commenst about overpriced, overinsured, overtaxed cars being made to pay yet more. The same voices complain about the QBCs taking up a disproportionate amount of road space. But my view is that the die hard road lobby (as opposed to the average driver) just refuses to see any of the logic behind OBCs and improved access for public transport. They will complains that public transport just isn’t good enough to entice them from their cars. But the fact is public transport can’t improve without dedicated road space and that means QBCs and removing one-user cars from the road through restrictions (like O’Connell St) and congestion charging.
Of course, I also accept the arguement that public transport must dramatically improve if it is given priority over cars on roads. And that means CIE gettings its finger out and using some imagination and forward thinking.
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February 26, 2003 at 12:52 pm #724725Rory WParticipant
There’s too much of the I pay my (one of the lowest rates in europe) taxes and reserve the right to park/drive/runover people where ever I choose in this country. No such thing as civic mindedness…
CIE is destroyed by a combination of bad management, selfish, intransigent and lazy unions and political interference as well as the fact that joined-up-thinking has never struck this important company. Leadership is badly needed in this area
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February 28, 2003 at 1:27 pm #724726GrahamHParticipant
I think that simply the effort that people have to go to to pay the London charge is putting people off, rather than the amount. I know it’s only a trip to the local shop but people are oh so very lazy…
I agree, the Conor Faughnan types need to wake up to the fact that things need to get worse for motorists before public transport (if ever) improves.
Does anyone have any idea what those fat middle-aged men employed by CIE, who stand on tracksides and platforms, gawking at every train going by, actually do? Does CIE recieve charity tax exemption status? Clearly it must. Perhaps these are the ‘architects’ of Connolly’s terminal. -
February 28, 2003 at 2:30 pm #724727urbanistoParticipant
Its easy to pay the congestion charge. you can pay by phone, on-line (although there have been complaints about the site crashing), by mobile phone (similar to the way parking is paid for in Dublin) and in local shops. How much easier can you get!
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March 8, 2003 at 6:48 pm #724728AkenParticipant
As far as i can gather the people who stand on the platforms (along with the majority or Bus Eireann drivers) are employed by CIE to make you feel stupid and small any time you require assistance.
Also, they are paid by Lottery money (so that’s wheres it goes) and are in league with the men who dig holes in the middle of busy roads and stand in them for a day or two fill them up only to dig them up again.
The government came up with a plan to have them all killed harvest their organs (thus shortening waiting lists) but it was scrapped because we couldnt send the empty bodys to landfill and we dont have an incenerator!
As for congestion charging, i dont think we should charge for driving in the city center, as it seems toll roads are becomming more popular (we wont ba able to look at our cars without being charged) Unless something is dont about public transport, LUAS willsort out the city center but what of the thousands of people who live as far out as Miltownpass etc who have no choice but to drive in to the city.
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