Mature Tree Destruction by DCC

@publicrealm wrote:

Sorry if there is a more appropriate thread for this.

I have noticed many mature trees being removed in the area of Palmerston Road, Rathmines over the past while. I always assumed it had to do with public safety (or, more probably, fear of claims) but it seems to have accellerated recently.

Three lovely mature trees have just been removed from Merton Road, another at the junction of Merton with Temple Gardens and two more nearby on Palmerston Road?

I know that a big branch came off the Temple Gardens one in a recent storm – so maybe that was unsafe, and I noted that one of those knocked in the past day or so (on Merton Road) has a hollow section in its centre (presumably a bad thing?) – but can think of no reason for butchering the others – apart from roots lifting the footpaths.

(If roots lifting the footpaths is considered reason to remove such beautiful trees then dozens more may be in danger.:()

Anybody know what is going on here?

(I took photos of all trees (ex trees) but for some reason I cannot upload them – even though they are below the appropriate size limits?)

Fingers crossed that is the reason…..(and somebody notices some cracks appearing on College Green). 😉

Presume that is the reason, pity they wouldn’t take out some trees elsewhere!

I used to have relations living in Temple Gdns. Those trees are monuments. Big, beautiful giants.

@fergalr wrote:

I used to have relations living in Temple Gdns. Those trees are monuments. Big, beautiful giants.

Yes Fergair – they are magnificent – nothing like the College Green scenario – these trees form part of one of the definitive leafy suburbs.

Finally managed to get the pictures to upload – hopefully they give some idea of the context.

The first three pics are Merton Road, fourth pic i Palmerston Gardens and the last two Palmerston Road. All within 100-150 metres.

The little white dog in pic no 1 is mine – mourning the loss of two of ‘his’ trees – (caught between two stools as it were).

Reminds me of Dogmatix.

I mentioned this in a recent thread regarding an enclosed square in Smithfield. Trees age and become overmature. When trees become overmature in an urban context they can become unsafe and bits start to fall from them. Overmature trees can usually be identified by ‘stag horning’ which is the term for the die back at the tips of branches. With care and judicious pruning overmature trees can live for many years more (as evidenced by the two large trees behind the campinile in Trinity College), but its expensive, and usually only considered in public parks due to the space available. Street trees, even the Lime and Horse Chestnut in and around Palmerston Park, live shorter lives than parkland trees due to the pressures that they are under. 150 years would be a good innings. Parks Departments operate a tree management system in more mature areas which generally runs along the lines of incremental replacement rather than waiting for large portions of trees to reach overmaturity and die at the same time, which can have a significantly greater visual impact on streetscape, allees or avenues.

Based on this, and the life span of the trees, I think you can expect to see many more of the trees planted in Victorian Streets being incrementally removed and replaced over the next few years. Se Si.

I’ve no doubt that these trees are past their best in a constrained urban setting and agree that their removal is probably necessary at this point. However, I disagree with this notion of replacing a single batch of trees on an incremental basis when those originally planted were clearly intended to impressively line the street and age in tandem with one another.

This methodology, regularly employed in a half arsed manner, will only ensure that the impressive vistas created by a run of mature trees aging in tandem will be lost to the city as the originals are gradually removed, and haphazard tree planting takes its place.

The only option in such cases, is to remove all trees lining a street in a single effort and replace with reasonably substantial juvenile specimens, that will in just a 15-20 year time frame significantly enhance the streetscape once again, and ensure future generations can marvel at the gravitas that only a run of mature trees can lend a streetscape.

I hope we can do a little better than this.

https://archiseek.com/content/attachment.php?attachmentid=10325&stc=1&d=1275311030

Could they be pollarded?

Publicrealm: you need to contact DCC parks dept. Also consult what is in the area plan for Rathmines. A couple of these trees fell down in the last few years and they’re pretty big and there isn’t a lot of room for them to fall on Palmerston Road. It is really sad to see them go and everyone loves old Horse Chestnuts but time marches on.

Also try contacting the South East Area Committee of DCC for political representation for this road.

Two trees recently got the chop on Dartmouth Road, just off the east end of the square. Funny that they disappeared after one of the houses was renovated and occupied.

Someone putting a call into the council because the sun wasn’t shining?

@Service charge wrote:

Two trees recently got the chop on Dartmouth Road, just off the east end of the square. Funny that they disappeared after one of the houses was renovated and occupied.

Someone putting a call into the council because the sun wasn’t shining?

were these trees in someone’s demise? – if so, and if there isn’t a protection order on them it isn’t against the law to cut down a tree in your garden you know. I do know that several trees on dartmouth square were considered dangerous and also the canopy cover was actually causing future growth to be stunted due to light levels

‘Demise’? How victorian are you!

They were on the public road.

The only apparent difference with the trees felled and the other trees on the road was that someone spent a million or two renovating the house close by. As soon as they moved in the trees quickly disappeared after 100 odd years.

Hmm. Lets be rational about this. The City Parks Department are not going to cut down trees which could be considered to be part of the overall character of a beautiful victorian square for no reason. While I may agree with the earlier points regarding the size and weediness of the replacement trees (which incidentally grow and become established quicker than semi-mature trees), I dont think that the Parks Department are that accommodating to allow for mature street trees to be cut down just because a nearby renovated house doesnt want them overshadowing their living room.

It may just have to be faced that the trees in this area are starting to reach the end of their lives. All trees die. Street tree management doesnt allow for the slow receeding of branches and suckering growth seen on ancient oak trees in parklands and demesnes. It perhaps might be better to elicit a response from the Parks Department via a Councillor as to the status of these trees, and others in the surrounding area, rather than murkily implying that they are being cut down to accommodate a single homeowner.

Excellent butchery job … the cheap sapling replacements are so apt!

I noticed alot of streets and roads in France last month lined with plane trees that had been severely pruned (through neccessity) mantaining the continuity of tree sizes . No reason why the corporation couldn’t do this here and keep a unified streetscape. As usual no thought put into anything.

Reported in Irish Times today:

Residents criticise council for felling trees without notice

DUBLIN CITY Council has been criticised for felling trees in Synge Street without notifying residents in advance or explaining why it was being done.

A council spokeswoman confirmed there were “complaints” and the matter was mentioned at the council’s area committee on April 12th and agreed by councillors. In such circumstances, residents “don’t have to be notified”, she said.

Unfortunately a lot of the concerns expressed for the fate of trees here and elsewhere is reactive.
I suggest that all local councillors in this case (and any of the other places where the choppers appear) be contacted by as quickly as possible by as many locals as possible and made aware that there will be a sustained outcry from a lot of angry people, with consequent vote loss potental, if the (often) petty issues of a few constituents or party contributors are entertained.

Roots in the basement – Hmmmm! Is it the Little Shop of Horrors we have here!

Its not the larger trees on the southern section of the street, but rather the smaller ones seen to the top of your photograph. The photograph accompanying the article on the IT website shows them more clearly. They are elms. These days they would have been planted with root protectors to stop the roots from impacting on the basements.

On the other side of this arguement do elm trees (taking into account their mature size of 30m+) not seem to be a bit big for a street of this width? Would hornbeam or something of similar size and spread not be more suited. On a wider issue I would have more problems with what I consider to be innapropriate street tree planting in the city as whole which is what leads to this happening at a stage that the trees are nearing maturity and are contributing to the streetscape. I have noted in many instances undersized trees (hornbeam/birch) along large streets, or trees with potential to grow enormous (lime) in narrow streets.

@David Murray wrote:

Its not the larger trees on the southern section of the street, but rather the smaller ones seen to the top of your photograph. The photograph accompanying the article on the IT website shows them more clearly. They are elms. These days they would have been planted with root protectors to stop the roots from impacting on the basements.

ah I see 😮 good! Surely those Elm’s weren’t 30 years old though?? Hard to imagine their roots impacting on basements at this point.

Hornbeams make for a nice street tree alright, but their tendancy to bolt in later years doesn’t do them any favours.

@David Murray wrote:

On a wider issue I would have more problems with what I consider to be innapropriate street tree planting in the city as whole which is what leads to this happening at a stage that the trees are nearing maturity and are contributing to the streetscape. I have noted in many instances undersized trees (hornbeam/birch) along large streets, or trees with potential to grow enormous (lime) in narrow streets.

Couldn’t agree more, there is little consistency or foresight. Given the positive impact an appropriate specimens can have on a streetscape it really deserves more planning than just throwing in whatever is available to them. In my own development, all gardens were planted with Lime’s, albeit very nice specimens, just 1.5m from front windows.

i see a few in eglinton road in donnybrook have also got the chop…

@aj wrote:

i see a few in eglinton road in donnybrook have also got the chop…

Maybe I am hopelessly desiccated and cynical – but I cannot help wondering if there is money in removing ‘problem’ trees and if the apparent increase in removals may be connected with the recession?

Are there reasonable checks and balances involved – or are some contractors allowed fairly free reign by an (overstretched! :rolleyes:) planning authority?

The Irish Times – Thursday, August 5, 2010

It said following a meeting yesterday between the council and local residents, it was agreed no further felling would be carried out on the remaining four elm trees until a replacement planting plan had been agreed with residents in the area