Luas running after 12am
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Just read that Brennan wants the Luas to run after 12, to “bring home late-night Dublin city revellers.” This will be very handy for me, just have a few questions though, do you reckon prices will be increased after say 12 am? What’s going to happen to the taxi drivers? I mean theyll probably lose some business from the smoking ban, but the Luas running after 12 will surely take a fair few potential customers. If business starts getting bad do you reckon theyll become cheaper or just leave the industry? What are your opinions? Also read the metro is getting the go ahead, I can guarantee you if it werent for Brennan and his persistence this wouldnt be the case, wed probably get an extra bus or two!!!!! Anyway hes the article re. Luas
TRANSPORT Minister Seamus Brennan has told the agency responsible for the Luas that he wants the service to operate into the early hours to bring home late-night Dublin city revellers.
It emerged yesterday that when the service is fully up and running in June, the trams will stop running at 12 midnight.
Mr Brennan watched the first Luas tram to cross the new cable-stayed Taney Bridge in Dundrum and the historic Nine Arches Viaduct at Milltown on the Sandyford-city centre line yesterday.
These were the first trams to cross the old Harcourt St commuter rail line since it was closed down on New Year’s Eve, 1958.
Rail Procurement Agency (RPA) spokesman Ger Hannon said yesterday that the scheduled service times for both the Tallaght and Sandyford lines were 5am-12 midnight. But the minister has told the RPA they should operate much later because there are so many people who want to get home from the city centre during this time, the Irish Independent has learned.
However, Mr Hannon conceded that the operating times could be extended if there was sufficient demand.
The minister said that the Luas was costing €32m per kilometre, and insisted that this was in line with costs of other tram systems in France, Italy and Spain and elsewhere in the world. He was a lot more confident now than he was six months or a year ago that the June deadline for opening the Sandyford line and the August deadline for the Tallaght leg would be met.
Mr Brennan acknowledged Dublin had looked like a building site during construction, but predicted that once the service was open he would be besieged by people looking for Luas lines.
Mr Brennan said he had campaigned vigorously since the 1970s for the re-opening of the Harcourt Street line.
“We are witnessing another important milestone on the way to bringing alive again a highly efficient and regular daily commuter service along the old Harcourt Street line after a gap of 46 years,” he said.
“The modern trams and efficient system will also further enhance Dublin’s reputation as one of Europe’s most progressive and cosmopolitan cities.”
The 9km line is due to start in June and will have 13 stops, with a journey time of 22 minutes. At peak time there will be a tram every five minutes in both directions. Each 40-metre tram has the capacity to transport 310 people, adding up to 25,000 passengers a day or nine million a year.
Yesterday, the first test run was attended by a small group of local senior citizens who fondly remembered travelling on the old Harcourt Street trams in the 1950s, when the cost of a monthly ticket was 19 shillings.
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LUAS won’t run after 12am. In fact it will likely end up closing at 11.30 just like the buses. The reason? The houses along the route won’t be able to sleep. Traveling along a narrow street the tram will have to honk and grind its way along the street. Forget the guff about ‘silent’ trams – that’s untrue. Trams do make noise, a lot of it. I lives along a tram route in Amsterdam, so I know a lot about trams. In the mornings I always woke up with the sound of the first tram rumbling along the (wide) street. I can only imagine in horror how loud the tram will rumble and shake traveling past those tiny terraced houses just after the fourcourts stop. The compo claims from traumatised residents, fed lies by the RPA, will be astronomical.
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Originally posted by Barry Long
LUAS won’t run after 12am. In fact it will likely end up closing at 11.30 just like the buses. The reason? The houses along the route won’t be able to sleep. Traveling along a narrow street the tram will have to honk and grind its way along the street. Forget the guff about ‘silent’ trams – that’s untrue. Trams do make noise, a lot of it. I lives along a tram route in Amsterdam, so I know a lot about trams. In the mornings I always woke up with the sound of the first tram rumbling along the (wide) street. I can only imagine in horror how loud the tram will rumble and shake traveling past those tiny terraced houses just after the fourcourts stop. The compo claims from traumatised residents, fed lies by the RPA, will be astronomical.Yes but the trams in Amsterdam are much older, heavier and rickety are they not?
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The noise and that is something that cannot be judged until they’re up and running.
The passenger numbers using the existing nightlink services wouldn’t suggest that late night LUAS services would be commercially viable.
Given that it is a private service these ‘late night’ services could be very short lived outside of holiday times and weekends.
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Originally posted by Morlan
Yes but the trams in Amsterdam are much older, heavier and rickety are they not?
I lived along Tram 1 and and Tram 17. These are new trams that only came into service last year. They are almost identical in design to the RPA’s trams.
When moving along a narrow street you see the tram does shake. Members may have seen the section of tram in Amsterdam between Konigsplein and Leidseplein (Tram 1,2,5). When people are walking in the vicinity of the tram the driver is required to honk the (shrill) horn to warn of its presence. Not even the soundest sleeper would be able to get some kip while the trams were grinding and beeping every five minutes; never mind the drunkards who’d be hanging around the stops. Trams don’t run after midnight in Amsterdam for this reason.
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Originally posted by Peter FitzPatrick
i disagree, was nearly run down by a test tram last week in Belgard, couldn’t hear a damn thing … was surprised at how quiet they are, gliding along … sure there is some sound, but its not much …When in open suburbia the noise level is quite acceptable. There is no foot traffic to contend with so the horn remains unhonked. But inching through a narrow street the tram will not only vibrate the pavement but the horn wil have to be honked to warn street users a tram is passing. In any event the tram has to honk its horn while approching, while doors are closing, and while leaving each stop.
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The LUAS trams have two aural warning systems.
A shrill car-type “horn” for danger situations, and a lovely, electronic, but very melodious sounding “bell” which chimes softly to let pedestrians know that the tram is coming.
They used the latter when inching through Windy Arbour last week – a lovely sound, don’t know how they managed to make an electronic bell sound so nice!
Gabriel
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Originally posted by Gabriel-Conway
The LUAS trams have two aural warning systems.A shrill car-type “horn” for danger situations, and a lovely, electronic, but very melodious sounding “bell” which chimes softly to let pedestrians know that the tram is coming.
They used the latter when inching through Windy Arbour last week – a lovely sound, don’t know how they managed to make an electronic bell sound so nice!
Gabriel
Saying the horn sounds melodious is very subjective. I know i’m subjective too and I say the sound is odious.
But going on the Amsterdam feeling – and my sentiments will be shared by anyone living along an urban tram route – nightlink trams will = nightmares for the residents along the city centre section of the Line A
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Originally posted by Peter FitzPatrick
think your exaggerating things Barry …well he is irish. scaremongering is the most excercised political tool here dont you know?
did you hear all the publicans in ireland are going to fight the smoking ban and go to war? and that nearly a hundred million eastern europeans are going to come over here and rip up our celtic tiger for a kebab and ruin us all? even more terrifying is the rumour that ian paisley still has political sway and will be president of ireland by 2005? sometimes i despair
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The passenger numbers using the existing nightlink services wouldn’t suggest that late night LUAS services would be commercially viable.
DIASPORA – are you mad? The late night bus service must be one of the most successful transport initiatives introduced in Dublin. Anytime I have used them (which has been a lot) they have been extremely busy. There is massive demand for late night transport – just look at the queues for taxis
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Quote “The late night bus service must be one of the most successful transport initiatives introduced in Dublin. Anytime I have used them (which has been a lot) they have been extremely busy.”
I’m not so sure that they are Extremely busy, yes they run at a profit but only because the fares are much higher.
Most nitelinks in my experience have about 30 passengers this is not enough to justify trams with a capacity of 200+ passengers on purely commercial grounds.
Quote “There is massive demand for late night transport – just look at the queues for taxis”
Getting a taxi hasn’t been easier in a decade, deregulation of the taxi market has now been halted because taxi drivers were threatening in many cases doing other things. Where they could have a reliable source of income. Not trying to defend taxi drivers they had enough gravy, but if the bottom fell out of the market they’d all exit and persue other careers
I am in favour of late night LUAS but I wonder will a private operator run the service at a loss. Which I am sure it would be from Sunday to Thursday, not too many passengers to the Naas Rd at 3AM on a tuesday night. :rolleyes:
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Nottingham is due to open in March. They have had some complaints about noise from their Trams. The extract below comes from http://www.britishtramsonline.co.uk/news.html
I think its likely that similar issues will arise here in Dublin.As far late night running its a commercial decision as far as Connex are concerned. they will want to balance patronage with costs for drivers, Control Room staff additional maintenance and cleaning. The Light Rail Orders allow running 24hrs if needed.
JJ
“28 sites in Nottingham are to see noise tests undertaken following complaints received from residents over the disturbance the Nottingham Express Transit trams are causing. It has led bosses at NET to saying that double glazing may be required for homes, at the expense of the tram company. Of the 28 locations 6 are places where residents have complained with the remainder being in public places such as the Old Market Square. The main noise worries appear to be at the Noel Street junction where two lines diverge and it is this junction which is the cause of the majority of the complaints. Some local residents have spoken to the Nottingham Evening Post saying that the noise and vibrations have recently got so bad that tiles have fallen down off the roof and that the problem isn’t only the trams on the track but is also partly the use of the bell at the junction. The other main area for concern is in Cinderhill where fencing has recently been erected to help protect from the noise. Despite these noise concerns the Nottingham Tram Consortium have said that they have only received 25 complaints about the noise in the past year. Mike Casebourne, Project Director, said “we’re pretty sure we’re going to wind up insulating half a dozen properties near the Noel Street crossing and a couple of homes where Noel Street joins Gladstone Street.” The cost would be around £16,000. “
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Quote “Despite these noise concerns the Nottingham Tram Consortium have said that they have only received 25 complaints about the noise in the past year.”
A deluge on the scale of the Army deafness claims will arise here, even if they are quite silent. My concern would be that the double glazing could be PVC on a lot of historical properties
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I live close to a the Cork-Dublin mainline in Co Kildare. Trains are constantly passing at speeds up to 100mph(160kmph). I dont feel I should be compensated, nor do I think those close to tramlines should receive extra money because someone chose to provide them with a top class transport system on their doorstep
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Originally posted by niall murphy
I live close to a the Cork-Dublin mainline in Co Kildare. Trains are constantly passing at speeds up to 100mph(160kmph). I dont feel I should be compensated, nor do I think those close to tramlines should receive extra money because someone chose to provide them with a top class transport system on their doorstepIrish Rail is notorious for its infrequency. There are no passenger services between 9pm and 6am. Your house could not be as promximate to the railtrack as it would be were you living along the section of LUAS between Fourtcourts and Jervis.
Go down there yourself; take a look at the track alignment (beside the footpaths adjacent to people’s front doors) and it will dawn on you that the trams will indeed make life intolerable for residents of this section of Line A
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Quote “How much has the value of their houses increased because of their proximity to the Luas.”
Not very much, Because it already had a huge centrality premium embedded due to its a, Centrality and b, proximity to the Four Courts.
That would be a very valid argument if it were another kilometre or two away or if the system actually connected with the Dublin 2 office district.
It is widely accepted that the DART line has greatly benifited property values in places like Raheny and Shankhill. But how much effect has it had on Westland row vs Adealide Rd?
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I’d suspect that an extra few K would be tacked on to the asking price!
Although I do agree I did feel sorry for whoever lives in those cottages between the Four Courts and Capel St. I hope they all have net curtains.
I remember going up in that glass lift in Smithfield a couple of years ago. We were all standing gazing out as it passed up by the windows of Chief O’ Neills hotel when suddenly we were face to face with a poor girl undressing in one of the bedrooms. I dunno who was more embarrassed!!
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I feel quite strongly about the unconnected nature of the LUAS system. I live about 200 metres from Line B about 300 metres from the proposed Charlemount stop.
It is absolutely useless to me as it doesn’t connect to anywhere that you would go to regularly and couldn’t walk to. Many evenings I have come back from Belfast arriving into Connolly and said ‘why doesn’t the bloody LUAS connect?’
That is why I was determined to thrash this particular thread, it was an attempt to backslap Breanann for considering the potential for luas running later than existing services.
It should run late but it should also have been running late nights and not five years late.
It should operate late in a connected and integrated system.
It should be operated late by either Dublin Bus and Irish Rail, who would run it late even if it loses money. On the basis of societal benifit.
How can the state transport company be expected to operate at financial equilibrium or better if they are left only with loss making routes? :rolleyes:
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The solution was obvious: Line B should have terminated in Connolly via Dawson Street, College Street, Pearse Street and Tara Street.
This would’ve had the added benefit of ridding the city of cars traveling South-bound to Stephen’s Green, thus freeing up the historical/tourist quarter. It being Ireland, there was no political will to do this so we’re left the LUAS shambles.
That said, I don’t think it’s vital that the lines interconnect. The common assumtion – especially in the media – is that the LUAS is a ‘train’ stoping at ‘stations’
Sorry, guys. It’s a humble tram. Tram/Rail interconnections – yes. Tram/Bus – yes. Tram/Tram – no need. It’s like suggesting a connection between the M50 and the Cork Ring Road – just because they’re both dual carraigways.! Absolutely illogical.
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Go down there yourself; take a look at the track alignment (beside the footpaths adjacent to people’s front doors) and it will dawn on you that the trams will indeed make life intolerable for residents of this section of Line A
Hi, I’m a long time reader of this forum and first time contributor.
This Luas scaremongering is becoming ridiculous. I live in Melbourne where trams are an every day part of life.
A tram passes by right my house with a request stop outside my front door. Trams start running at 4:40am and finish at 1am. These trams are much older than those Dublin are getting, but even so the noise is very inoffensive and everyone on the route young and old wants them there because they provide an excellent and reliable service. Why will Dubliners be any different?
Additionally from what I can make out (number of lines aside) the design of the Dublin system will be far superior to the system here where stops are too frequent (100m in places) and the trams doors are not at platform level.
Wait until it starts and then ask those people along Line A if their lives are intolerable…I expect they will be the same as everyone else in Dublin and will be demanding extensions to the network ASAP. -
Quote “but the politician’s inaction is often just a result of the publics ‘nimby ‘objections”
In general I agree Peter,
In the case of the routing decisions on the Tallaght Line you are spot on.
But the entire re-examination of the entire process in 1997 by O’Rourke was motivated by god knows what. They had already got the consultants reports, but they needed more consultants reports. LUAS could have been operational a full three years earlier i.e. 2002
Thats not scaremongering thats real politik something sadly lacking at present.
As for Breannan he was quoted last week as saying ‘I have more confidence in the deadlines now than I had a year ago’
Another Banana skin is just waiting for a comment like that.
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On a recent visit to South County Dublin planning office I was intrigued to see the original Light Rail order drawings on display at the planning office public reception which showed the full LUAS scheme as envisaged by the engineers complete with connection through Dawson Street and College Green and one depot. It stuck me that we employ professional engineers and designers to prepare schemes then end up with people like Mary O’Rourke and Seamus Brennan making politically motivated decisions that make no sense adn end up costing us dearly.
Yet we never learn and BTW don’t expect the Metro to be any different !
😡On a lighter note and just to cheer myself up here’s a nice picture of the Tram crossing the Nine Arches. There’s a sight to see !!!
JJ
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Fantastic image JJ
I like Peter also hope that Dawson St/ College Green is reconsidered. But back to the late night theme it would appear to contravene government policy what with earlier pub closing and now this on rte.ie:
“Killybegs fishermen angry at Govt order
February 20, 2004
(09:37) Fishermen in Killybegs have demanded the withdrawal of what the Chief Executive of their organisation describes as ‘a daft order’ by the Department of the Marine.
The Department has ordered fishermen not to unload catches at night, which Sean O’Donoghue of the Killybegs Fishermen’s Organisation, says is an incredible way of making life difficult for fishermen.
As well as the Killybegs fleet, boats from several ports around the coast are landing catches of herring, mackerel and horse mackerel, into the Donegal port.
Traditionally they have been able to land catches around the clock, but the Department of the Marine has issued an order limiting landing to the hours of between 8am and midnight. It says this is due to EU regulations.
Mr O’Donoghue disputes this. He says the EU requires catches weighed, but does not restrict the hours of landing, which he blames on industrial problems within the Department for which fishermen are being penalised.”
My buddy Mick in Killybegs will not be happy
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Originally posted by JJ
On a lighter note and just to cheer myself up here’s a nice picture of the Tram crossing the Nine Arches. There’s a sight to see !!!
JJAmusing to hear 98FM state (incorrectly) that the tram passing over the viaduct was the first non steam train to run across.
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