Irish say no to PVC windows

That really is the case though. In the more developed east you’re used to seeing the mistakes made in the 70s and 80s with aluminium, cheap timber and early PVC – you gloss over it as you do with much of the inappropriate development from these times.

But when you see tons, literally tons of plastic being installed post 1995, i.e. in the past ten years across the western side of the country, the mind boggles as to the ignorance of local authorities, property owners and the planning system as a whole.
Other European countries like Sweden seem to have put legislative safeguards in place in the 1970s, while even today in this country we still can’t control what’s happening to older stock.

I’ve said it before, but what is the Dept of Education doing about the hundreds of schools around the country replacing sash windows with PVC? They have a direct role to play here in safeguarding architecturally worthy school buildings, and in being environmentally pro-active. The scourge of PVC in 1890s-1940s school buildings is one of the worst aspects of the plastic invasion. Suppose you really cannot blame schools for wanting comparitively maintenance-free frames considering their often shoe-string budgets, but PVC’s use in schools is particularly inappropriate given the wear and tear they recieve and the difficultly in repair.

Regarding the Tidy Towns, they do have this to say in their information pack:

“The major threat to the overall architectural character of a town or village isn’t necessarily from large one-off developments, but through the day-to-day activities of property owners and occupiers. Try and avoid these potential causes for damage:
. The replacement of timber windows by P.V.C, particularly in historic buildings
. The use of varnished timber instead of paint
. Removal of the traditional plaster finish and pointing-up the stone or brickwork behind – this destroys local traditions and can cause long term damage to the fabric of the building
. Installing “pseudo traditional type shopfronts” which ignore local context and characteristics
. Removal of old boundary walls and outbuildings.”

I think a little stronger language is in order than ‘try to avoid’ :rolleyes:
The Tidy Towns has a mahor role to play also in protecting older buildings from PVC – conservation is a heck of a lot more than window boxes, heritage lanterns and parish pumps surrounded by geraniums.

I think their concern for the problem is summed up perfectly by their current billboard campaign – think it’s the one with a guy with paint all over his face and a whitewashed cottage in the background. And what’s that inserted into the window aperture?……

Bob, there are plenty of other threads about those subjects you mentioned. This one is about PVC.

@Maria wrote:

I would put a photo of my terrace on here to show the awful things people have done to these beautiful houses but I think it would upset too many people. 🙁

Your neighbours or people here? I wonder… 😉

As for keeping the glass, there’s little reason why you shouldn’t be able to. Indeed the restoration of windows often only needs the years of paint stripped back and the odd timber or two replaced, especially the bottom rails of sashes which can be dodgy due to water accumulation.
But by and large you should be able to retain the majority of the original sashes themselves, let alone just the glass!

Will get quotes over the next week or so and let you know how I get on. Since reading this thread I now look up at every building and see the white plastic! I honestly didn’t notice how common the ugly pvc windows had got. The North Circular Road is awash with dodgy windows!

Thanks again for the tips and comments I’ll let you know how I get on and maybe post a picture of the completed job (in possibly 5 yrs time depending on cost) and show up my neighbours for the pvc vandals that they are!

Cheers
Maria

A very good page Andrew thanks, though a bit more balance would be welcome in favour of PVC dare I say – accuracy is everything with such comparisons.
There is no doubting the low-maintenance appeal of the product – this is at the end of the day what the vast majority of its market wants it for.

The site makes a very good point when stating ‘the average house changes hands every 7-10 years’ – at present this is why the negative aspects of PVC are remaining hidden for the moment, simply because very few people have yet to live in a house long enough to experience the plastic’s twilight years!
You move into a shiny new first-time development with new PVCs, then move on to a second hand house that’s just ‘had the windows done’, and third time round move to a house with 70s timber or something that needs replacing and so more new PVC goes in. The nasty hidden side of the product will only hit home in 10/20 years time.

Some of the truly astounding misinformation that’s on the internet here from a page entitled:

“What are the advantages of Vinyl Windows?”

“One of the well-known advantages of vinyl windows is their superb degree of insulation. When compared with aluminum window frames, vinyl keeps in heat during winter but seals your rooms from heat during summer.”
(Fails to mention timber is equally effective)

“Even if you spend money to replace your existing windows with vinyl, you can likely make up this cost in energy bills in a few years. When paired with double-paned glass, the costs could be significant. The windows are even recyclable for those who are concerned about the environmental impact of construction waste.”
(Oh please – and who exactly recycles these yokes? The majority go straight to landfill)

(I love this one below)
“They are inexpensive to manufacture and install, since they fit into the existing spaces for your windows without changing your walls.” (!!!)
(But of course – you have to demolish half your house to install timber :rolleyes: )

(And this)
“You can choose how many panes your windows have, how they open, the width of the sill or trim, and their locking mechanism.”
(All impossible with other products I’m sure)

(This below is just unbelievable)
“Vinyl windows resist dirt, stains, mold, scratches, and dents. The exterior casing won’t fade or wear under ultraviolet sunlight. This means vinyl windows will last far longer than aluminum or wood.”
(Very simply patently untrue)

Good luck with your windows Maria 🙂

Here’s another good document:

http://www.environ.ie/DOEI/doeipub.nsf/0/17407b65c95d10d280256f0f003db979/$FILE/windows.pdf

Probably not although the cost of such detailed work in Ireland is prohibitive to all but a few domestic projects, that is why it is such a pity to see special windows replaced or any windows replaced on a building with special windows, once in the UK I spotted a magnificent set of windows not unlike those on Tailor’s Hall on the front of an otherwise quite plain Queen Anne period building, to my horror someone had replaced the less impressive side gable windows with PVc. To make matters worse the building was in an old colliary town on quite an elevated site from which the PVc proportions were evident from 100m. On closer examination it was possible to see deposits of run off from the cleaning had accumulated in the mitred joints and while the PVc was quite white the joints were dark grey and very noticeable. This can be another potential problem that a lick of paint would solve on timber windows but with PVc there is no solution.

That’s unbelieveable!
On D’Olier St!
In 2005!
On a Wide Streets Commisssion streetscape!?!

The audacity of the owner or tenant, and the cheek of the PVC company who one can be guaranteed knew exactly what they were at! 😡

On closer inspection you can see why they did it – the lower sash on the right was as good as detached from the frame:

Pity the image couldn’t be better – was taken on a banjaxed 1m camera.
Yes the image was taken on the 1st or 2nd (probably 2nd) of February 2005 – if you need anything else I’ll be happy to oblige.

This is a practice that still seems to be commonplace – the insertion of PVCs into the uppermost floors of Georgians where they supposedly won’t be seen – there’s even quite a few on Merrion Square that seem comparitively recent!

It’s the loss of original fabric that gets me – you’d think original stock in the city centre would be immune from this sort of thing in this day and age 😡

I know that Paul Lawrence and Karl Crowe are reputable. In terms of the whole list, I imagine that, by virtue of being listed in a register of conservation practicioners, there won’t be many chancers there.

Bolgers fit the Ventrolla system; strips of draught/noise proofing inserted between the sash and its case – It has a good name.

Re: Double glazed sashes. I’ve seen it done quite well and I’ve seen it done very badly. But it always tends to look a bit ‘clunky’.

get some heavy curtains!!!