Dunkettle

Dunkettle now going to an oral hearing, the decision date was revised from July to 20 October but the oral hearing is down for 24th-27th Nov in Rochestown Park Hotel

@Pug wrote:

Dunkettle now going to an oral hearing, the decision date was revised from July to 20 October but the oral hearing is down for 24th-27th Nov in Rochestown Park Hotel

Surely this development will not go ahead for at least 5 – 10 years in the current climate.

Oral hearing on this starting today i think, the devt might not go ahead for ages but getting planning on the land will massively increase the value of the land so developers probably eager to get planning

The Oral Hearing in question (PL04.233061) has been deferred until further notice to allow the Board to seek further comments from the National Parks and Wildlife Service. All parties were notified of the position, although ABP did not remove the incorrect details from its website until today.

thanks for the info – i’m sure all parties will be even more thrilled with the delay

@Pug wrote:

thanks for the info – i’m sure all parties will be even more thrilled with the delay

The longer it drags out the better as this will not be built for years.

The land must be worth only agricultural values really at this stage

Will it all end up in NAMA ?

Dunkettle Oral Hearing now scheduled to start 2nd March.

you would imagine that O’ Flynns will not dream of building in the current climate, its just to add value to their lands, which would probably mean that cork county council wont get any development contributions to upgrade the road network which means Dunkettle will stay in the current sorry mess its in:eek:

Correct me if I’m wrong Pug, but hasn’t the reason for refusal to date mainly been the inadequate road network? I understood that the roads were to have been upgraded sometime during the last development plan and are still in the same state. O’Flynn can’t get permission until the roads are upgraded – the council / NRA have no money to do the roads – catch 22.

The sad thing is that a park and ride for the rail line at Dunkettle has been refused because the NRA intend at some point, maybe, in the future, perhaps, in the right climate etc doing a ‘red cow’ on the interchange. So until they’ve made up their mind everything is stalled.

Joined up thinking how are you!

well, it was part of the reason you’re right, there was a few other things in there. I take your point though, there is no joined up thinking, you have the council trying to do something with the road, the NRA jump in (instead of both of them sitting down together to sort it, which would actually fulfill the purpose of both the council and the NRA which is the usually forgotten and ignored reason of benefiting public transport ). In the meantime the council dont have the funds and nor do the developers so the land will remain static until the oral hearing result. Even if that produces a decision, the lands may remain static as the developer may not have the funds, which means the council cant get the contributions from them and thats under the assumption the NRA have agreed to anything at all. Meanwhile the traffic at Dunkettle grows and grows. Classic Ireland in a nutshell 😮

@Pug wrote:

well, it was part of the reason you’re right, there was a few other things in there. I take your point though, there is no joined up thinking, you have the council trying to do something with the road, the NRA jump in (instead of both of them sitting down together to sort it, which would actually fulfill the purpose of both the council and the NRA which is the usually forgotten and ignored reason of benefiting public transport ). In the meantime the council dont have the funds and nor do the developers so the land will remain static until the oral hearing result. Even if that produces a decision, the lands may remain static as the developer may not have the funds, which means the council cant get the contributions from them and thats under the assumption the NRA have agreed to anything at all. Meanwhile the traffic at Dunkettle grows and grows. Classic Ireland in a nutshell 😮

The whole scheme will be shunted into NAMA anyway even if it is a positive result for O’Flynns subject to roads upgrade etc.

I just find it amazing that a rail based park & ride which could potentially take a lot of the cars coming from the north and east is refused on the basis that the interchange may be upgraded in the future – apparently the NRA just weren’t sure if they would need part of the proposed car park – just in case they do. Sustainable mass transit options should override road based.

Its likely that the park & ride would remove at least some of the traffic and give some breathing space for the roads into the city centre, at least in the short/medium term…… but I guess that would mean planning beyond the next election……

Problems with capacity at the Dunkettle interchange have been brewing for very long time – if the NRA don’t get their act together soon, there will be no scheme of any size built around the north or east of cork for some time to come….. so much for CASP!

Exactly Crock – if the interchange doesn’t improve then the LAPS in Carrigtwohill and Midleton cannot proceed. So CASP is dead in the water.

I am living on the fringes of O’Flynn’s proposed development. It is my sincere hope that the proposal in its current form or anything like it never sees the light of day… It is sheer utter madness and will obliterate Glanmire village, as well as causing traffic chaos. The roads are barely capable of taking the heavy traffic as it is, and no matter how you improve them, you can’t widen them to take more vehicles- The widening proposals that are there at the moment are for the provision of footpaths so that pedestrians don’t get mown down- These proposals I support as a father of two children.

Cork County Council are adept at destroying villages. Look at Douglas and Rathcormac to name just two- They are truly appalling examples of not just bad planning but no planning.

O’Flynn’s business “genius” is in buying land and building lots and lots of houses on it… Not exactly rocket science. Good planning requires ability to visualise and consider complex and subtle requirements. Not exactly O’Flynn’s (or Cork Co Co’s) forté.

The unfinished oral hearing into this development is to recommence on Tuesday 27th at Rochestown Park hotel – questioning of the NRA is one of the first items on the agenda. In the light of their recent appeal re mahon point developments, it will be interesting to see how much weight ABP give to their submission.

Crock, can you elaborate on your comments? Do you think the NRA have lost credibility because of their submission on the proposed Mahon Point development? I would be interested to hear your thinking.

The proposed development at Dunkettle has been refused by ABP.

http://www.pleanala.ie/casenum/233061.htm

Both the insector and the board went against it.

A major reason is that the Dunkettle interchange cannot take any more traffic. Obviously, this will affect any other proposed developments which could affect the Dunkettle interchange traffic. Logically, they should all be refused, e.g. any future Mahon Point developments.

Logically…….

@corkblow-in wrote:

I just find it amazing that a rail based park & ride which could potentially take a lot of the cars coming from the north and east is refused on the basis that the interchange may be upgraded in the future – apparently the NRA just weren’t sure if they would need part of the proposed car park – just in case they do. Sustainable mass transit options should override road based.

Its likely that the park & ride would remove at least some of the traffic and give some breathing space for the roads into the city centre, at least in the short/medium term…… but I guess that would mean planning beyond the next election……

I know this is an old post but anyway.

The problem here is that Dunkettle HAS to be upgraded. No matter how much ‘sustainable’ transport you can get, the fact is that interchange needs a major rework. It should never have been built as it is, it just doesnt have the capacity.

The Park & Ride is planned for a ludicrous place, right on top of the junction. A much better location would be the old freight yards near Little Island.

The problem with their plans is they want to put the P&R on the north eastern side of the Dunkettle Roundabout. We have looked at amateurish ways of upgrading the junction and it is almost completely impossible to upgrade without using that patch of land. The junction of the Cork – Waterford, Cork – Dublin and Cork South Ring (and eventually North Ring) junctions has to take priority over a sustainable transport solution in this case.

@Chris_533976 wrote:

I know this is an old post but anyway.

We have looked at amateurish ways of upgrading the junction and it is almost completely impossible to upgrade without using that patch of land. The junction of the Cork – Waterford, Cork – Dublin and Cork South Ring (and eventually North Ring) junctions has to take priority over a sustainable transport solution in this case.

Please elaborate?

@LOB wrote:

Please elaborate?

A bunch of us nerds on a forum got out Google maps and MSPaint and worked out ways to make every movement freeflow at Dunkettle. Its actually really difficult because you have the tunnel that cant be moved, the Glanmire roundabout, a railway line, Dunkettle house and some minor roads. Throw in a P&R next to it and it just cant be done. The only free land you have is really on the northeast.

FWIW here is what I came up with. Makes every movement freeflow but would be impossible to build as traffic diversions just dont exist. As you can see, there is no way to build this if the P&R is there.

anyone have an update on the ibis hotel site? It would be a disaster if it was to be revamped as a school, this is a brilliant site that would be perferct for a landmark building coming in from the dublin road? Its a brilliant location that is near a propsoed rail station and a massive area for growth in the city over the next decade. It is perfect for a tall landmark buiding as there is not too much around the site that it would be overshadowing and with the proposed rail station and the proposed dunkettle point site across the road it would be perfect for a new community type development along a line that is proposed for growth in the city by the city council. In the long term as well when the tivoli cargo site a little more towards town comes on the market when they eventually move down stream this will be a whole new area for the city and with a bit of forward planning could be a really exciting area for the city if some coucillers and developers got together and put a master plan for this area to take in glounthane, glanmire and little island together now and put in place procedures for this to happen on a gradual basis.Also on this area does anyone know what is happening with a site near silverspings where there is a lapsed planning permission for a petrol station with drive through restaurant and retail facilities?