Dublin skyline
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@JPD wrote:
Sadly how true the docklands represents the biggest lost opportunity ever
Its strange that Belfast has no problem building high e.g Lanyon place and now the Titanic quarter but Dublin does…it does not make a lot of sense
@jimg wrote:
the DDDA are venemently opposed to anything taller that suburban office park style six story buildings.
This has been (rightly so I think) pointed out so many times, but you tend to gloss over the central point at this stage – is it actually DDDA policy to keep to 5/6 storeys, with ‘landmarks’ shooting up from that backdrop, or is a higher 10ish storey carpet going to be built in these newer phases, for the ‘landmarks’ to stand against?
I found this http://www.merchantsgate.ie , what do people think? There appears to be one landmark tower of 19 storeys. Anything is bound to be better than the bog standard stuff going up these days. Every time i look out at the docks from the train going into Connolly it always depresses me. It looks like there’s nothing there. Even with all those cranes on the opposite side of the river, there seems to be nothing going up higher than a few floors. So much lost potential as far as i’m concerned, but i know other people feel differently.
A 29 storey building called Obel seems to be planned for the quays in Belfast. It looks impresssive. It’s a pity there nothing similar under construction in Dublin. Does anyone know when work is due to start on Alto Vetro or Montevetro, or the ‘The Park’ in Carrickmines? Thanks
Graham, the reason this has been overlooked is simply because this talk from the DDDA about tall “landmarks” is a relatively recent change of tune probably in response to the rising criticism of their model of development. In the fifteen or so years they’ve been in charge, they’ve managed to cover the most of the prime development locations in the docklands with suburban office park style blocks and boring monolithic appartment blocks none of which rise above six stories. It’s bit of a cop out to now claim that this horrible pattern of development was part of a grand plan. Their earlier documents made it explicit that they would not tolerate tall buildings. It’s an dreadful wasted opportunity. Their neanderthal planning model has created the economic conditions which encourages sprawling development (City West, Park West, et. al were all started after the DDDA were handed responsibility for the docks) and is also now putting pressure on the rest of Dublin to accomodate high buildings in inappropriate areas. They have singularly failed to create an URBAN area when a cursory look at other cities that have developed new self sustaining urban areas whould have shown them how to do this. They deserve all the criticism they get. No-one will ever again have the opportunity to implement a grand plan in Dublin unless they reclaim huge chunks of Dublin bay and even then it will be like some American city where the new “downtown” is five miles away from the traditional centre. They’ve blown it big time.
I agree wholeheartedly. I think the DDDA may be realising it too with what was to be a flagship in contemporary architecture and modern city life for Dublin and Ireland is turning out to be a non event. There’s kinda an air of desperation when ye see the posters that they have up on hoardings promising the proposed twisting U2 tower and the Daniel Leibeskind centre for something or other. Wow! The Dublin Docks is one big joke of a development, almost painting by numbers for very slow learners. One of Its so called focal point s, Custom House Square and it’s environs etc… is really fucking awful. So much money invested and spent and with so little to be excited about. (Custom House Square will look like Dorset Street in 20 years time)
Maybe Peter Coyne and Co should take a little trip back home to Britain and get a little bit of inspiration, flair and vision. Britain is a shining light at the mo with it’s exciting new architecture popping up throughout it’s land.
The Dublin docklands redevelopment is undoubtedly a shameful waste of what was once a sparkling opportunity, but what interests me greatly is that even the most conservative voices on this board agree that taller buildings are acceptable, even desireable, in the docklands yet the DDDA in their supposed wisdom have taken the opposite view. Why is this? How have we managed to put the most conservative people in the country in charge of one of the most important developments in our capitals history?
What I’d really like to know is who are these architectural Puritans? And most importantly what is their reasoning behind the barrack-like developments that they’re foisting upon the docks? I have yet to hear a good argument from them as to why taller buildings are unacceptable in the docklands. Has anyone had any correspondence or read any literature from the DDDA about this matter?
For what it is worth, Leon Krier spoke last year in the DDDA. Krier is an advocate of a city of between 4 and 5 storey buildings. It does appear, however, as stated above, that they are starting to move away from this model on the south of the quays. I also think that in the early days of development local communities lived in fear and dread of a Canary Wharf type of development.
DDDA think they will have the most stunning waterfronts in the world,
they should start a comedy show ! in the middle of grand canal dock,
THe most stunning flat building you will ever see,
tourist look up at the skylline ??the developers say ,there it is! not up there down there at sea level?
anyway,
point is flat flat flat square , reectangler whatever boring!away from the docks , i found a pic of a bid project on james joyce dtreet , near conolly station i think?
@dave123 wrote:
DDDA think they will have the most stunning waterfronts in the world,
they should start a comedy show ! in the middle of grand canal dock,
THe most stunning flat building you will ever see,
tourist look up at the skylline ??the developers say ,there it is! not up there down there at sea level?
anyway,
point is flat flat flat square , reectangler whatever boring!Dave, this is actually where buildings of various heights exist and are proposed. You would have a point with regards the north Docks, but there actually does seem to be an attempt being made here to vary what is happening.
Dave James Joyce St was once known as Corporation St and is the continuation of Store St where Busaras is, this area has been redeveloped very successfully between buildings completed and others under construction or planned.
Re The docklands I really think that John Rogersons Quay was the perfect spot for taller buildings as virtaully no-one lived there thus eliminating most potential objections, there is a stretch on the opposite bank on North Wall Quay that should be looked at in terms of taller buildings.
What may happen as time goes on is that existing buildings may at the end of there leases be re-developed as taller stand-alone towers, the presence of a residential element in mixed use development s does however make this more difficult but take for instance AIG House just at Spencer Dock (the one that looks like a giant Pvc conservatory), it is a small site with a floor plate of say 1,500 sq m. At some stage land values will have risen to the point where a taller office building will no longer be marginal.
Sadly I don’t think Dublin will ever get a decent skyline, we are stuck with the IFSC type development pattern becuase no-one had the vision to develop them and those that proposed them were shot down.
Did you see the last of the tall buildings series on the BBC the other week TP? In Hong Kong they featured what must be the most extraordinary property market in the world via the case of a development of what I think was two 80 storey residential towers at the shoreline. They were are just nearing completion after a few years of building, but are already set for demolition as the value of the site has gone up so much that new even taller buildings are more profitable!
From a distance at least it seemed almost the equivalant of demolishing the Petrona Towers!Yes it does seem as if things are changing with the DDDA on the south bank (as usual the northside left with the worst development :)). Certainly the likes of AIG House are dismal in height terms by anyone’s standards – sure they’re lower than lots of the existing city!
Some elements of and off Mayor St have proved to be a pleasing standard height I think, such as Excise Walk, and that rubix cube of apartments opposite the NUI.
The 8/9-storey level I think provides the best of both worlds – the opportunity for high density as well as powerful tall(ish) architecture, whilst also retaining a human scale.
There’s no little reason why this level could not be achieved as the minimum height for the majority of the Docklands, with ‘landmark’ developments puncturing this.No I missed the HK skyscraper programme, my loss by the sounds of things, that would never happen here because the initial schemes proponents wouldn’t have the ability to admit they were wrong.
The Rubix-cubed blocks are called Clarion Quay and are very well designed the way they created the plaza for the College and the wide passage to the side of the hotel really provided very high quality amenity space with the minimum of land used. The biggest pity is that very little of what will go into the South docklands will be as high a standard despite having had the opportunity to learn from this development.
Regarding scale I couldn’t agree more.
i find it odd that erection work hasn’t begun on either tara street, montevetro or quay lodge. i know it’s not called quay lodge anymore but i call it that as it’s easier to remember. according to some websites these buildings should be well under construction.
is there any tall buildings going ahead apart from the bloody boring 5 to 9 storey buildings that have been built already , anyway i garentee you that those building will be knocked in 20 years time if other real developers got their way to build higher buildings as the land values go up, and when there is know room in Dublin city centre , we will build in laois as the salution to our overcrowding, a never ending irish problem when it comes to anything they build!!!!! build first plan later , im sure blancherstown can have more sprawling estates
“when we get more money from developers building huge office park we will get money to spend building are infastructure with a few pot holes filled in” …………..@alpha wrote:
i find it odd that erection work hasn’t begun on either tara street, montevetro or quay lodge. i know it’s not called quay lodge anymore but i call it that as it’s easier to remember. according to some websites these buildings should be well under construction.
does anyone actaully know what the story is with Tara St I assummed it was the dart upgrade which was stalling that building
Well considering Tara St has recently been upgraded from cattle shed to hay barn, whatever happens it seems unlikely the station itself will get much treatment as part of the grander office scheme 🙁
😀 well thats is very irish is’nt it, im sure they will develop it when we have the altalntic tunnel is built and it will problay connect to Dublins grand intergrated public transport by then
@dave123 wrote:
😀 well thats is very irish is’nt it, im sure they will develop it when we have the altalntic tunnel is built and it will problay connect to Dublins grand intergrated public transport by then
an atlantic tunnel maybe…but a working public transport system in dublin would be pushing it way too far 😀
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