Dublin: it isn’t that ugly

Older Dubliners are very self-deprecating – suppose it stems from the fact that Dublin genuinely was falling down around their ears in the 60s, 70s & 80s – particularly those latter two decades.

The negativity is now vented through litter, dirt, on certain types of people, on certain areas of the city etc.
But the place has come on in leaps and bounds and many parts of it are exceptionally beautiful, most parts being very pleasant. It is a different place even to that of 5-7 years ago.

To an outsider I’d say Dublin does have an air of a provincial British city in terms of its built environment; I can see it in the faces of tourists every day, but anyone who knows anything about these two nations will notice just how different Dublin is – on a host of levels, not least its architecture which has a uniquely Irish tinge to it, even if it has its roots in UK design.

To try to see the city from an outsider’s perspective all you have to do is remember what you thought of the place as a child – it always works for me. In terms of the scale of the city, not knowing its history or its geography or its people, and in terms of defining the place through key buildings and the general blur of the streetscapes, a child’s view comes very close to that of a newcomer.
Now unfortunately all I remember is a gritty, scary, smelly dump of a place littered with derelict sites and propped up buildings which doesn’t bode to well for my theory, but that was quite a few years ago…

Sure Dublin’s great 🙂

Boyler I love your passion for one so young, there go I in the seventies. If you had been around then would your blood have boiled.Yes,indeed Dublin is an attractive city- but so much potential was lost because of gombeenism, and cowboy deals. Might I dare to add that the protagonist, said gombeen folk, and cowboys, were probably not born and bred in the city.

this is an interesting thread- as someone who is a dubliner and left the country for economic reasons in the 80s(like so many of my generation) and then returned to my home town i have to say that it heartens me greatly that someone of Boyler’s generation says that he loves Dublin.

i don’t live in Dublin at the moment ,however, it gives me great joy to return to the city every other month or so and see how it is improving- the Luas, new bridges, new apartment buildings enabling people to live in the city, the HARP plan refurbishing O Connell Street , new bars, new restaurants and the people from all over the world thronging the busy and mostly pedestrianised streets-
There is a great deal of mispaced nostaglia for the Dublin pre- 60s- we hanker after the faded grandeur and forget the appalling sqaulor. The much maligned Ballymun Flats were built to house people who lived in appalling conditions in the former spendid georgian mansions we so fondly disremember-

the glory age of Georgian Dublin ended in the Act of Union 1800- the city went into decline from then in terms of building fabric and wealth and it is only now that we are turning it around with (mostly) appropriate and sensitive architecture-

when i was 15 Dublin looked like a bombed out city andTemple Bar was one big dark area of dereliction that was dangerous to walk through at night-(it might still be regarded as dodgey today with all the stag parties and all but at least people are having fun!)

cities grow and change and it is good to see that Dublin has not been preserved in apsic, but has gone through a period of decline(as happens all over the world) to come out looking good, friendly and maybe even intersting.

Thomond Park, there will always be poor planning decsions and poor examples of architecture to point out in any city in general , however , the visual environment in Dublin is greatly improved and is to be welcomed. you may say that no-one is saying that Dublin is a dump, however, that is not the case in general conversation and in parts of the media as outlined above by Boyler.

as for our lost georgian heritage , which was lost during the ruinious period of the 70s and 80s ( as outlined in Frank McDonalds book cited above) it is gone and gone forever. It is a great pity, however, we must not dwell on it, and we should focus on the rentention and approproate refurbishment of what is left.(which is quite substantial actually)

the georgian period architecture was the result of great wealth, confidence and the will of a few powerful men, who in creating a “modern ” capital a mile east from it’s medieval core transfomed the city . We are doing something similar now , but in a more modest and contextual manner as befits our pluralistic democracy and planning system based on equal rights of all citizens to object.

therefore, you may not like everything that is happening (or not happening)in Dublin , however, it is very positive in the most part.

I’m not so sure Graham

The IFSC, and the Jervis and Stephens Green shopping centres are about the only modern commercial buildings that people in great numbers ever speak positively about. Even the Central Bank divides people greatly, ask people about developments within their localities and you will very often hit a raw nerve particularly in relation to the lower grade of contemporary apartment development.

I see where you are going with Burlington Road and I would add the old RDS Cattle grounds now the AIB Bankcentre to that as being prime examples of good planning. I differ with Frank McDonald on Burlington Road no City can be sustainable with gardens that size so close to the centre of the Office district.

I don’t go with Baggot St and Stephens Green was planning of the worst order as these areas have always been very much prime, you wouldn’t expect the Bank of Ireland to locate its HQ just anywhere. This runs entirely contrary to urban economic theory which suggests that slightly sub-prime areas should have been developed as a spillover to functioning districts in boom times.

The best example of this is the Taunusanlage district of Frankfurt that was a genuine urban renewal project, it features cutting edge architecture from the 1960’s 70’s 80’s 90’s and early this decade. It was entirely outside the existing office district but became one of the leading financial districts in Europe. Most of the correct places for development were overlooked for 30 years and areas such as Burlington Road, Ballsbridge, IFSC, Barrow St and Grand Canal Quay only started perform in to the 1990’s and the latest Docklands stuff going up is low on height and downright bland in some cases. For me the best commercial buildings in Dublin post 1960 are still phase 1 of the IFSC or Central Bank how sad is that?

Whats sums it all up for me is Clanwilliam Square that was developed in the late 1980’s at two storeys when the site could have accomodated 7-8 storeys comfortably.

Going forward planning has to be monitored as closely as ever there are the fridges on Grattan Bridge there is also the vastly overscaled Capel Building which is an ugly lump in my opinion and was only successful becuase it had capital allowances. There was also a near miss with The Gaiety Centre and the recent loss of the Ormond Hotel.

Times haven’t changed as much as some people think.

Graham,

The Ormond Hotel is about to be taken down with barely a whimper and an endorsement from ABP, outside the Squares and Upper Mount St can you get much more historical than Upper Ormond Quay in the view of Grattan Bridge?

The Capel Building is on the Junction of Capel St and St Marys Abbey it is 8 storeys over ground and has a huge footprint and virtually no design quality, red sandstone style composite panels, dark glass it is Houston Business Park c1978 in general appearance.

graham/thomond park,

your debate seems to hinge around one basic point- should the city of dublin development happened outside the historic core(as in the Frankfurt example cited above, and many other examples in Europe, Paris, Amsterdam etc..) or in the city centre itself( London, Berlin)

my own view is that Dublin is too small to have two cores and i enjoy the fact that administrive, business , retail , social and most importantly residential life occurs in the city centre- Dublin is a vibrant living city because of this and i beieve that this is what is attractive to visitors rather than any grandeur.

in order to have this kind of town, then a lot of old stuff gets pulled down- and some of it regrettably- however most of it was dross and this makes the way for possibly better contemporary architecture.

however, a lot of what we are doing in replacing dross with dross- this has to be conceded, however, on balance, i think that the city has never looked better – it has a smile on its face rather than a frown