Developments in Cork

@A-ha wrote:

Having noticed that people are not taking an active interest since the opening of individual threads to replace our last Cork thread, I thought I would start a new one dealing with all aspects of Cork City, Metropolitan Area and County. I hope that this new thread will be used for Cork developments that don’t fit into the Transport or Docklands threads as I would like to see both of them being used also.

🙂 Well done A-ha, those other cork threads were in danger of falling off the radar they got so few people showing interest.

Well done ! Those sub-divided threads lacked focus and it was a stupid idea closing the “Developments in Cork thread in the first place”.

Absolutely. Those individually tailored, topic-specific threads totally lack focus. In fact, they are so conducive to bluster and wandering off-topic as to make one long for the days of the clear head, logical progression, and varied debate of the Cork threads of yore.

🙂 😎 I’m happy to have a proper Cork thread back

Thanks for taking the initiative AHA. Clearly the individual threads were not working! Nobody is going to open up an individual thread for the often small, seemingly insignificant bits of news that pops up on the ‘Developments in Cork’ threads- despite the fact that it all adds to creating one of the livliest threads on the site.

CCC have voted to dispose of that site on Popes Quay for the princely sum of one euro. In fairness, this talk of getting thousands for the site was a bit of a red herring given, to my knowledge, CCC had never owned the site up until the short time when they transferred the site to its new owner.
What I think is more relevant to this thread is the erection of a new wall/fence around the site. Does this destroy the view of the Civic Thrust building? Does it even having planning? Any info?

Hope adm will not try to spilt up this new tread as Cork needs a source for all the gossip, its being a quite 2 weeks !!!

@Radioactiveman wrote:

CCC have voted to dispose of that site on Popes Quay for the princely sum of one euro.

Is that legal I had always understood the minimum legally enforceable consideration to be £1 which unless the law has been changed discounting this figure it could be in trouble.

@Radioactiveman wrote:

Thanks for taking the initiative AHA. Clearly the individual threads were not working! Nobody is going to open up an individual thread for the often small, seemingly insignificant bits of news that pops up on the ‘Developments in Cork’ threads- despite the fact that it all adds to creating one of the livliest threads on the site.

CCC have voted to dispose of that site on Popes Quay for the princely sum of one euro. In fairness, this talk of getting thousands for the site was a bit of a red herring given, to my knowledge, CCC had never owned the site up until the short time when they transferred the site to its new owner.
What I think is more relevant to this thread is the erection of a new wall/fence around the site. Does this destroy the view of the Civic Thrust building? Does it even having planning? Any info?

:rolleyes: The wall and railing was erected without planning, rentention was applied for with a senior planner recommending refusal, this was overturned by the “senior” planner and granted.
Retired city architect, Neil Hegarty appealed the grant of premission and Mr. Keohane withdrew from ABP.
The city manager proposed selling the site to Mr. Keohane for 1 euro which was passed by councillors last night by 21 votes to 5.

So what happens the wall/fence now?

@Radioactiveman wrote:

So what happens the wall/fence now?

😉 To quote the city manager, “that will be taken care of soon”

@A-ha wrote:

A €1…. did somebody bid for it on eBay or something. I would have gone to €1.25, but that would have been my limit. That’s such a shame though. I really wanted to get to see that project through. Whats planned for the area now then?

😎 Nothing, the site is to stay as is, which is a HUGE improvement on what was there before.
Selling the site to Mr. K. was a great idea, the way it was carried through by the city manager and sold for 1euro is a scandal for the city and a huge (unnecessary) embarrassment for the buyer.

well done indeed. I am intrested in whats happening down in cork but some of those threads were way to long

@kite wrote:

😎 Nothing, the site is to stay as is, which is a HUGE improvement on what was there before.
Selling the site to Mr. K. was a great idea, the way it was carried through by the city manager and sold for 1euro is a scandal for the city and a huge (unnecessary) embarrassment for the buyer.

Who is Mr Keohane and why did he get hold of that building for just one euro?

@PTB wrote:

Who is Mr Keohane and why did he get hold of that building for just one euro?

😮 Mr. Keohane is a well known (and respected) property developer and business man in the city. He turned what was an ugly eyesore into a beautiful landmark building.
I feel sure he would have been prepared to pay a fair price to enhance his property, but as the city manager confirmed on radio today (96fm), it was Mr.J.X. Miller (Civic Trust) and Mr. Joe Gavin, (City Manager) that instigated the deal from day one.
Shame that it is Mr. Kehoane that ends up with egg on his face on this issue.

just wondering with the dunnes redevelopment on pana, is all the 14000sq metres for dunnes or will they be letting out some of the floors?

@daniel_7 wrote:

just wondering with the dunnes redevelopment on pana, is all the 14000sq metres for dunnes or will they be letting out some of the floors?

All Dunnes…….

Why will Maryborough Hill be closed to two way traffic for nine months to one year? Wait till the schools go back, then the fun will start…….

Can any one help?:confused:

And what about the “Second council official suspended over land deal” can any one put more light on this?

And well done to A -ha this is the best Thread, please keep it going:cool:

Frinailla’s Victoria Cross scheme has been approved subject to conditions. Haven’t had a chance to look at them yet. Code is 216418 of anybody wants to check pleanala.ie

@shrink2cork wrote:

Why will Maryborough Hill be closed to two way traffic for nine months to one year? Wait till the schools go back, then the fun will start…….

Can any one help?:confused:

It’s going to be closed til 2007 because they are widenin the road there.

@jdivision wrote:

Frinailla’s Victoria Cross scheme has been approved subject to conditions. Haven’t had a chance to look at them yet. Code is 216418 of anybody wants to check pleanala.ie

The IE had a story on this on Monday, ABP overturned their own inspector yet again to grant planning, anyone else feel that the frequency of appeals being overturned is alarming?
http://archives.tcm.ie/irishexaminer/2006/07/11/story7985.asp

@kite wrote:

The IE had a story on this on Monday, ABP overturned their own inspector yet again to grant planning, anyone else feel that the frequency of appeals being overturned is alarming?
http://archives.tcm.ie/irishexaminer/2006/07/11/story7985.asp

I think they have a point, though I am glad of some of the approvals.

Where is Lexington?

Holiday I hope – no sign of him here lately since the thread was split up ?

@Spinal Tap wrote:

Holiday I hope – no sign of him here lately since the thread was split up ?

He was around earlier in the week. By the way is anybody else having private message trouble? I got two email notifications that I had pms in my account but when I logged on there was no sign of them. I needed them for something I was doing workwise

surely dunnes aren’t going to take 140000sq ft on pana, when you put it in perspective with tescos in wilton which was, not sure if it still is the biggest supermarket in the country at 32000sq ft?

I agree. I only realised that that Dunnes was there two or three years ago. I always seemed to float past it and not really notice it. The first time I saw it i looked in and it wasn’t very busy but on my way back to the bus stop I looked into the Merchants Quay one and twas packed. I dont it does much buisness.

School of music from very far away.

The fact Dunnes have two outlets in close proximity in Cork City is perfectly standard and is common around the world. The two outlets serve (at the moment) wildly different purposes. The redevelopment of its Patrick Street store and surrounding space will see the company push its image into the realms of Roches and Debenhams- with whom it really wants to compete, not its historical competitor Quinnsworth/Tesco.

So, as one Cork retail giant makes even more progress, another looks set to disappear from the retail scene, and our major cities for good. Media reports this morning suggest that Debenhams are almost certain to acquire the lease of all of Roches Stores properties. This includes prime department stores in Waterford, Cork and Limerick amongst others.
Roches move out of retail has been on the cards for many years, with the stores now merely a collection of individual third party retailers such as Topman, Pull and Bear, etc. ‘Roches’ has for a good many years been just a name over the door.

Its unfortunate that another Irish Retail giant is to dissapear and it is also unfortunate that Patrick Street will become further cleansed of any link to Cork’s retail past. It makes the realisation of Dunnes’ Patrick Street development even more important.

@Radioactiveman wrote:

The fact Dunnes have two outlets in close proximity in Cork City is perfectly standard and is common around the world. The two outlets serve (at the moment) wildly different purposes. The redevelopment of its Patrick Street store and surrounding space will see the company push its image into the realms of Roches and Debenhams- with whom it really wants to compete, not its historical competitor Quinnsworth/Tesco.

So, as one Cork retail giant makes even more progress, another looks set to disappear from the retail scene, and our major cities for good. Media reports this morning suggest that Debenhams are almost certain to acquire the lease of all of Roches Stores properties. This includes prime department stores in Waterford, Cork and Limerick amongst others.
Roches move out of retail has been on the cards for many years, with the stores now merely a collection of individual third party retailers such as Topman, Pull and Bear, etc. ‘Roches’ has for a good many years been just a name over the door.

Its unfortunate that another Irish Retail giant is to dissapear and it is also unfortunate that Patrick Street will become further cleansed of any link to Cork’s retail past. It makes the realisation of Dunnes’ Patrick Street development even more important.

Its a pity to lose the indidgenous Cork retailers from our main streets as Dublin could now be Nottingham or Leeds with its “High” street Uk rertailers.We have very little in Cork city to attract tourists and a unique streetscape with local retailers is always something worth having.Roches move must have been on the cards for a long time as their Wilton store is stuck in 1978 !

Personally I think that there are way too many Dunnes Stores around Cork.Asuperquin or a few more M&S would be a nice change.

@Spinal Tap wrote:

Its a pity to lose the indidgenous Cork retailers from our main streets as Dublin could now be Nottingham or Leeds with its “High” street Uk rertailers.We have very little in Cork city to attract tourists and a unique streetscape with local retailers is always something worth having.Roches move must have been on the cards for a long time as their Wilton store is stuck in 1978 !

Personally I think that there are way too many Dunnes Stores around Cork.Asuperquin or a few more M&S would be a nice change.

Not sure about Superquinn, but M&S definitely. I agree, it is a pity Roches are bowing out.

@A-ha wrote:

Maybe they are going to use some for offices. I can’t see Dunnes operating 140000 sq ft…. especially when there is one across the road in Merchants Quay. Perhaps they might close that when they open the new one. The one in MQ would make a great H&M.

Dunnes homewares collection will probably take up a significant amount of the space there, then there’ll be the usual drapery and grocery. Sounds about right to me.

😮 Following on the vote taken last year to ban residential units over 3 stories, proposed by FF’s Cllr. David McCarthy (passed by two thirds of councilors but never implemented by city manager, Mr. Joe Gavin) another proposal in the same vein is to be voted on tonight, a motion by Cllr. Mary Shields FF is to call for a blanket ban on units over 3 stories in Cork.
“Fianna Fail the developers friend”…not in Cork city it would seem?

@kite wrote:

😮 Following on the vote taken last year to ban residential units over 3 stories, proposed by FF’s Cllr. David McCarthy (passed by two thirds of councilors but never implemented by city manager, Mr. Joe Gavin) another proposal in the same vein is to be voted on tonight, a motion by Cllr. Mary Shields FF is to call for a blanket ban on units over 3 stories in Cork.
“Fianna Fail the developers friend”…not in Cork city it would seem?

Hahahahah, you can only laugh. This is a joke right? Some people are so ignorant, so conservative, so old-fashioned it amazes me. This is such a generalisation, just like the generalisation of speed limits, in being non case-specific resulting in excrusiatingly and exceedingly slow speeds on wide safe roads!
This is so lame.

@phatman wrote:

Hahahahah, you can only laugh. This is a joke right? Some people are so ignorant, so conservative, so old-fashioned it amazes me. This is such a generalisation, just like the generalisation of speed limits, in being non case-specific resulting in excrusiatingly and exceedingly slow speeds on wide safe roads!
This is so lame.

😡 Agreed, but when a councillor that would have been (until now) very much pro-manager starts jumping on the CSD bandwagon you can only wonder how long city management can hold the line?

and presumably Debenhams in Mahon point would be unsustainable if they have a large footprint in the city centre as well?

alchemys initial planning application to clear the former CMP site was due a decision yesterday i think, any word? it went to further info so that prob pushed it out a bit

Ballincollig is much better served by a Dunnes than an M&S. Like it or not Dunnes serves the everyday needs and caters for all whereas Marks is very much the upper end of the market.

@A-ha wrote:

another Next wouldn’t go a stray in the city centre. The one there at the mo is sh*t..

Next always is, it’s the most overrated retailer in the world. I’ve been in far bigger ones than the one in Cork and unless they were to bring in their homewares (which is way overpriced for what it is) there’s nothing you’re missing out on.

@A-ha wrote:

Next always gets bad press for just being another British high street retailer. But some of the ones in places like London and Birmingham don’t even resemble Next over here. Large stores with twice the amount of goods for sale, including furniture. I’ve never seen a Next over here selling furniture. I always thought Woolworths would do well here, but they left the Irish market years and years ago.

Woolworths left at a time when the Irish economy was going down the tubes.

@Spinal Tap wrote:

Its a pity to lose the indidgenous Cork retailers from our main streets as Dublin could now be Nottingham or Leeds with its “High” street Uk rertailers.We have very little in Cork city to attract tourists and a unique streetscape with local retailers is always something worth having.Roches move must have been on the cards for a long time as their Wilton store is stuck in 1978 !

Personally I think that there are way too many Dunnes Stores around Cork.Asuperquin or a few more M&S would be a nice change.

Very little in Cork, what about the English Market, an absolute gem that Dublin would love to have!!

@anto wrote:

Very little in Cork, what about the English Market, an absolute gem that Dublin would love to have!!

Mr & Mrs Spinal Tap picked up 2 Dutch tourists thumbing from Cobh to Cork on Saturday last and they were asking us what there was for tourists in Cork City.They had done the English market,Shandon,St.Finbarrs and the city centre area in a whole morning ! They loved Cork and thought it was a great city after 3 days in Dublin and being ripped off at Oxygen which was a dissapointment for them but there was nothing for them to do here and keep them in the city apart from bars and restaurants shops etc.We directed them to Kinsale,Clonakilty etc.

Cork needs more visitor attractions :-

Outdoor spaces / parks ah la Park Guell Barcelona
City Quays under utilised for proper paving seating landscaping ( cars parked right up to river ) massive potential.
Maritime Museum in the docklands.
Indoor Aquarium similar to the one in La Rochell France
Arts Museum / Venue like Gateshead or dare I say it Bilbao Guggenheim !
Feel free to add to list

Cork has the jobs,Population and wealth to support a vibrant arts and cultural scene but need to wake up to whats happening internationally in cities of a similar size across the rest of Europe.

B.T.W. Are’nt the new railings at Penrose Quay great next to the new sculpture installation ? They make you realise how bad the railings are across the rest of the City’s quays.

A lot of the Cok’s tourist attractions are at the edge of the Metropolitan Area – Midleton Distillery, Cobh Heritage Centre, Blarney Castle. One thing that Cork needs is a 2/3 day public transport pass (possibly including reduced entry to attractions). Cork City could make a great base for visiting such places, but at the moment this is impractical.

I’ve seen similar schemes in place in Helsinki and Madrid and there’s no reason it couldn’t work here.

Some great ideas about city attractions there.

One thing I’d love to see here – every Saturday in Recoleta (Buenos Aires) the local artists, crafts-people put up stalls around the paths of the local park. There was some great stuff there, rugs, mats, pictures, sculptures, musical instruments, mates (a traditional kind of tea cup). So you could wander around the paths to do some buying or just browse, or hang around the green areas where there were entertainers – comedy acts with family participation, capoeira etc.

A corner of Fitzgerald park would be ideal for such a regular event. Surely there would be a lot of interest from local artists. (Just as long as they’re not just hawking plastic shamrocks and “Kiss me, I’m Irish” t-shirts!)

@Spinal Tap wrote:

Mr & Mrs Spinal Tap picked up 2 Dutch tourists thumbing from Cobh to Cork on Saturday last and they were asking us what there was for tourists in Cork City.They had done the English market,Shandon,St.Finbarrs and the city centre area in a whole morning ! They loved Cork and thought it was a great city after 3 days in Dublin and being ripped off at Oxygen which was a dissapointment for them but there was nothing for them to do here and keep them in the city apart from bars and restaurants shops etc.We directed them to Kinsale,Clonakilty etc.

Cork needs more visitor attractions :-

Outdoor spaces / parks ah la Park Guell Barcelona
City Quays under utilised for proper paving seating landscaping ( cars parked right up to river ) massive potential.
Maritime Museum in the docklands.
Indoor Aquarium similar to the one in La Rochell France
Arts Museum / Venue like Gateshead or dare I say it Bilbao Guggenheim !
Feel free to add to list

I’d always point visitors in the direction of The Cork Gaol in Sundays Well, the Museum in Fitzgerald park, the ogham corridor in UCC and St.Finbarres Cathedral. For a city the size of cork, I believe we have our fair share of visitor attractions. That being said, Spinal Tap has come up with a good Wish List for the city in terms of attractions. I’d add to that as follows:
A national interactive science museum
A national events centre

Notice I said national. There is no reason why national institutions should not be based in Cork, or for that matter Limerick or Galway, etc. This government is determined to decentralise pen-pushers without decentralising any of the good stuff!
Feel free to add to the list and we’ll come up with some sort of top 10.

@Radioactiveman wrote:

I’d always point visitors in the direction of The Cork Gaol in Sundays Well, the Museum in Fitzgerald park, the ogham corridor in UCC and St.Finbarres Cathedral. For a city the size of cork, I believe we have our fair share of visitor attractions. That being said, Spinal Tap has come up with a good Wish List for the city in terms of attractions. I’d add to that as follows:
A national interactive science museum
A national events centre

Notice I said national. There is no reason why national institutions should not be based in Cork, or for that matter Limerick or Galway, etc. This government is determined to decentralise pen-pushers without decentralising any of the good stuff!
Feel free to add to the list and we’ll come up with some sort of top 10.

The current Government is going to get a big surprise in Cork at the next election I’d say as the second city does’nt get a major government department in decentralisation and I voted for them the last time !

Cork Airport debt fiasco.
1 airbridge farce.
Broadband access.
Delayed funding for school of music / Cork 2005.

Killarney has beaten us to the National Events Centre and best of luck to them as they had the guts to do it whilst the second city procrastinates.

4.2 million people in the country and the balance shifts even more to the east coast.

Add to list of ideas for Cork and we will get a top ten.Innovation and feasability required i.e.something that is a success elsewhere and we could do with (not the usual Starbucks & H&M stuff ).

Indoor winter sports centre

Cso just out still looking at it and to me it shows that the city realy have to sort out the boundary issue as it realy is
affecting how people perceve cork. This is a great city that has a real good feel about it at moment with all thats
planned in next few years i’d imangine that for next census the population for city will be way up from current low level.

________ _____ Persons 2002 _|_______ 2006________ Male ________ Female ________ Change ________ Percentage change

Cork ___________ 447,829 ________ 480,909________ 240,470_______240,439 ________ 33,080 ________ 7.4
of which

Cork City _______ 123,062 ________ _119,143________ 58,214________ 60,929 ________ -3,919 ________ -3.2

Cork County ______ 324,767 ________ _361,766 ________182,256 ________179,510 _______36,999 ________ 11.4

@Spinal Tap wrote:

Indoor winter sports centre

I dont know about that one! Why not just build the much needed long awaited years delayed 50,000 seater STADIUM on Pairc ui Chaoimh for concerts & matches. Its just so do-able and not a finger being lifted.

Someone sugggested getting some sort of an open air market going in Fitzgerald Park. I’d prefer somthing closer to the cith center. With the new Grand Parade there’l be a big pedestrian area to the east side of the street. You could put two rows of stalls facing each other down the lenght of it. You could also possibly put a canopy over the area between them also to protect people against the irish weather.

Visitor attractions:

::Some plazas in the new docklands would be very nice indeed for performing arts and all that stuff. If a new theater was built there and perhaps a comtempoary art gallery that would be great, especially if the gallery was really striking and got some paintings by some well known artists in it.

:: A maritime musuem. Obvious given the cities location. It would be great if there was a few ships lined up along the quayside like the Jeanie Johnson and the Asgard.

::An observation tower. Cork dosn’t really have any vantage points. And theres plenty to be seen if you’ve ever looked down on the city from lofty Montenotte or culturally not-very-lofty Gurranabraher. There are a few solutions to this.
1. Build a new, striking tower somewhere. Where, I’m not sure. It would want to be close to the city centre but not intrude on the low character of the city centre. I’m thinking somewhere near the bus station. It could also create a new landmark for the city. Twas done in london with the London Eye Observation Wheel
2. Build a land based observation place on the northside hillside. It would be cheaper but would however, give a lesser view.
3. Moor a balloon somewhere. I’ve been on the one in Parc Andre Citroen in Paris. It was great fun and gave a great view. There was plans to do this in Dublins Temple bar but I’m not sure where this got
4. Use Eglington street tower or some possibly upcoming docklands tower. I’m not sure if Eglington street could be used as it is a residential toweran the occupants may not like this. If there are other towers to be built..who knows? The County hall already functions as an observatory of sort. It has leased the top flooor to a catering company for parties and the likes.
5. Build a replica Eifell Tower a few feet shorter than the original and call it ‘The worlds tallest model of the Eifell Tower’. Two attractions for the price of one!

What would be equally silly would be to rename the city Leprechaun City and thus fill the place with naieve but hopefull and wealthy Americans. Hire a few midgets and we’ll be raking in the cash. With rakes.

I need less alcohol.

paul montgomerys plans for the former esso muskerry station on western rd have had further info requested.

I would greatly doubt that Ryanair would buid their own airport. It totally goes against their low-cost ethos. The cost of such a development would be, and I cant really give anything near an accurate estimate, huge – the aquisition of large tracts of land( the old aredrome alone site will not be of much use I imagine as it probably only ever took up the space used to land small one and two seater planes), bribes for councillers, building a runway and a cheap ‘terminal’. And I doubt the poeple of Killeah would like to live next to an international airport. They’re gonna fight it tooth and nail if this really happens.

bribes?

work has begun on the former Irish International Trading site at South terrace. Its only on the corner yet but I assume work on the development of the Breastcheck faciity to be built there is about to commence.

@A-ha wrote:

Will someone please tell me what the story is about all these rumours to do with Ryanair buying land in Killeagh where the Old Aerodrome used to be? I’ve heard talk about it everywhere, but nobody seems to know the full story. From what I hear so far, they are planning to use it as an airport. Without laughing, can someone gimme some more info. It sounds so crazy I can’t believe it, but I’ve heard it from lots of different people. (I’ve posted this in both the Developments and Transport threads…… I really want to find out as much as possible).

I think more people have seen/met Michael O’Leary in Killeagh over the past while than saw moving statues in Ballinspittle some years ago.

There has been a serious breach of planning regulations at a development on College Road.
“Cliffords” shop (well known to generations of students) as well as no.’s 1 and 2 Westbourne, College Road have (over the weekend, surprise, surprise) been reduced to rubble to make way for a new development on the site. Planning permission for such demolition has not been granted.
PP was recently conditionally granted (04/28769) for the demolition of a portion of the existing shop and the dwellings and to construct 4 no. terraced townhouses along Highfield Avenue. With regard to the properties 1 and 2 Westbourne it was intended to convert these into 4 no. apartments.
Permission had previously been refused by CCC and ABP for the development of 8 no. student apartments on 4 floors at 1-3 Westbourne, College Road.
The applications were made by a Ms. Ann Clifford.

The Planning Department at CCC can be contacted as follows, if you feel this merits a complaint:
Telephone: + 353 21 4924321 / 4924324 / 4924325 / 4924720 / 4924722 / 4924723

Fax: + 353 21 4924706

e-mail: planning@corkcity.ie

@Radioactiveman wrote:

There has been a serious breach of planning regulations at a development on College Road.
“Cliffords” shop (well known to generations of students) as well as no.’s 1 and 2 Westbourne, College Road have (over the weekend, surprise, surprise) been reduced to rubble to make way for a new development on the site. Planning permission for such demolition has not been granted.
PP was recently conditionally granted (04/28769) for the demolition of a portion of the existing shop and the dwellings and to construct 4 no. terraced townhouses along Highfield Avenue. With regard to the properties 1 and 2 Westbourne it was intended to convert these into 4 no. apartments.
Permission had previously been refused by CCC and ABP for the development of 8 no. student apartments on 4 floors at 1-3 Westbourne, College Road.
The applications were made by a Ms. Ann Clifford.

The Planning Department at CCC can be contacted as follows, if you feel this merits a complaint:
Telephone: + 353 21 4924321 / 4924324 / 4924325 / 4924720 / 4924722 / 4924723

Fax: + 353 21 4924706

e-mail: planning@corkcity.ie

My brother lives in the area and he was complaining about this at the weekend. He’s already contacted the council, as have I.

@Radioactiveman wrote:

There has been a serious breach of planning regulations at a development on College Road.
“Cliffords” shop (well known to generations of students) as well as no.’s 1 and 2 Westbourne, College Road have (over the weekend, surprise, surprise) been reduced to rubble to make way for a new development on the site. Planning permission for such demolition has not been granted.
PP was recently conditionally granted (04/28769) for the demolition of a portion of the existing shop and the dwellings and to construct 4 no. terraced townhouses along Highfield Avenue. With regard to the properties 1 and 2 Westbourne it was intended to convert these into 4 no. apartments.
Permission had previously been refused by CCC and ABP for the development of 8 no. student apartments on 4 floors at 1-3 Westbourne, College Road.
The applications were made by a Ms. Ann Clifford.

The Planning Department at CCC can be contacted as follows, if you feel this merits a complaint:
Telephone: + 353 21 4924321 / 4924324 / 4924325 / 4924720 / 4924722 / 4924723

Fax: + 353 21 4924706

e-mail: planning@corkcity.ie

😮 Happens all the time in Cork, remember Mr. Tracy and the listed Church in sullivans quay that “disappered” over a weekend without as much as a slap on the wrist from CCC. People that carry on in this fashion should be in jail.
Planning in Cork is a joke from the City Manager down.

any one got any pics of the blarney golf resort?

A very recent image of the new Cork School of Music.

and an image of the finished project.
“With an area of over 12,900 sq.m., will be the first purpose built building of its kind in Ireland, consisting of specialist tuition areas, rehearsal hall, live recording studio, drama suite and lecture rooms. The school was the first educational PPP project undertaken by the Irish Government.
Forming its heart and rising up five storeys at the centre of the school is the concourse, providing circulation and visually connecting the many inter-related activities of the school.”

Good to see this project making real progress given its disasterous start.

@A-ha wrote:

I read that Debenhams will take over all Roches Stores except the ones located in Wilton and Nutgrove. Roches on Pana will become a Debenhams, but it is likely that Marks and Spencer will take over the one in Wilton.

Would M&S bother with that tho assuming they’re only just updating the Merchants Quay store?

@Radioactiveman wrote:

A very recent image of the new Cork School of Music.

and an image of the finished project.
“With an area of over 12,900 sq.m., will be the first purpose built building of its kind in Ireland, consisting of specialist tuition areas, rehearsal hall, live recording studio, drama suite and lecture rooms. The school was the first educational PPP project undertaken by the Irish Government.
Forming its heart and rising up five storeys at the centre of the school is the concourse, providing circulation and visually connecting the many inter-related activities of the school.”

Good to see this project making real progress given its disasterous start.

Was there meant to be a new pedestrian bridge from the new SOM to the School of Commerce ?

@THE_Chris wrote:

Would M&S bother with that tho assuming they’re only just updating the Merchants Quay store?

Yes, M&S is in aggressive expansion mode at present

O’Callaghan Properties have applied for changes to their retail park at Mahon Point to facilitate PC World & Currys at Units 5 & 6.

Where is Lexington ?

Most people have probably seen these already but I only came across them recently. Both need IE to work properly.

Cork Corp planning inquiries.
Cork County Council Planning inquiries,

Both are map based & show you where has an application which you can then get full details of.

Work is currently ongoing at the “Bachelors on the Quay” site on, funnily enough, Bachelor’s Quay in the City to convert it for use by the Cope foundation for office, educational and training use.
Next door to this, an application for planning permission is due to be lodged by Cork Christian Trust for the remainder of the retail space in this mixed use development. Said retail space has remainded as empty as the rest of the building is ugly since it was built almost a decade ago.
CCT are seeking permission to convert the space; which fronts onto Bachelor’s Quay and Grattan Street, for use as seminar, office, radio studio, cafe and reatil use. This would seem to tie in with the social/community based uses planned for the neighbouring unit and in the abscence of any likely retail activity at the site, is surely a welcome development. Anything is better than looking at those boarded up units.

Boarded up units are one thing – but North Main St does not need another charity shop.

@A-ha wrote:

Do you know when PC World and Currys are to open? I’ve been wanting to know for ages, but can’t find it on the net anywhere. :confused: Maybe he is on holidays, most people are this time of year. :rolleyes:

There is a planning notice in the Examiner today for the signage and ancillaries etc for both Currys and PC World in MP Retail Park.

And about time too:

Micheál Martin TD, Minister for Enterprise, Trade & Employment today (Friday 28th July 2006) announced that the Government has approved the establishment of an interdepartmental project team, led by the Department
of Enterprise, Trade and Employment, to develop proposals for the
redevelopment of Haulbowline Island. The project will transform Haulbowline and the lower Cork Harbour making it an attractive place to work, live and do business.

Commenting on the announcement Minister Martin said “The project envisaged for Haulbowline would be among the largest projects in the State since the development of the Financial Services Centre in Dublin”

Commenting further Minister Martin said “This 44 acre site has the potential to be the most attractive waterside site in Europe. Haulbowline has unique attractions including the National Maritime College and the UCC Marine Research Centre. These and its longstanding marine traditions, will form the basis for a complete redevelopment plan which will:

Transform the environment in Cork, particularly in the Lower Harbour

Dramatically improve the quality of life for the surrounding communities in Ringaskiddy and Cobh

Allow for a more balanced employment mix between manufacturing, office and leisure jobs in the lower Cork Harbour

Among the type of facilities it could include are

16,000 square metres of office space
Approximately 200 apartments
A Marina with up to 225 berths and a Club House
A 300 bed Hotel
A Maritime Museum
A landmark building which would become a renowned feature for Cork as a whole.

Concluding Minister Martin said “ This project will be of huge significance not just to Haulbowline and the lower harbour area but to the city and county as a whole.”

This for real?Wow!I’m excited…

it’s for real

Excellent news 🙂

As it looks like horgan quay is going to get the event centre does anyone know what the story is with mahon point and the planned trade centre there? As im sure initial plans hade this under construction by now along with the leisure centre to the back but theres no movement at all? Is it true to that the planned hilton hotel is not going ahead either if the trade centre falls apart?

I think they need to sort out Mahon points ridiculous traffic problems before they go stuffing more buildings there 🙂

Queue for Tescos went all the way from the entrance right back to the dual carriageway the other day. Crazy. Luckily I was going to B&Q.

Just wondering but could anybody find a picture of Merchants Quay pre shopping centre ?

I dont have a pic, but I remember it being a bit of a run down hole there before they built it.

The reason it was a “run down hole” is that the site assembly practically took decades to complete and hence the neglect.

The quay used look alot like Patricks Qy acros the river in terms of scale, but with more businesses fronting on to the quayside.

@THE_Chris wrote:

I dont have a pic, but I remember it being a bit of a run down hole there before they built it.

And after they built it…

@Micko wrote:

Just wondering but could anybody find a picture of Merchants Quay pre shopping centre ?

Have been looking for one of those for ages. To no avail. The examiner published a picture in an article they did comparing the ‘new’ Merchants Quay and the old one, about a year ago. Sadly, I forgot to keep the picture.

Sorry for going off topic here but i am curious about a development that appears to be beginning on the Blarney Road just at the junction with Harbour View Road in Hollyhill there appears to be a new site entrance and earth moving work in progress. Is this to be a residential development?

Most developments in Cork are cheap and badly designed. We are building a short term future that will lead to problems for the next generations. We are also killing the character of our once beautiful city. We are killing our opportunity to be a considerate and beautiful travel destination. We are killing the future of our economy. We should be building high quality buildings not badly designed ones. The problem is we are not running a democracy here and we dont have even the expertese of our planning officers (if somewhat limited sometimes it is a valid system to protect the publics interest) to rely on. Cork is a subtle 18th and 19th Century Urban landscape.

New buildings require a certain response to this. A good designer will analise this and adhere to the rules to benefit the continuation of a masterful set of rules set down in the past few thousand years by experienced urban designers. But no we (some architects) know it all now and we dont need to analise history or respect existing urban environments. What is good for Serbiton is good for Cork. What is limited in the imagination of Developers is limited in the imagination of their architects. Developers are supported by the city managers office. Why does the University maintain a high standard but the City cannot. What we have in Cork is limited to the mediocraty of those running the City and those developing it. What we see are their, limited ambitions and their limited imaginations. Their greed and egos are leading the way for the future problems of our children and the destruction of this once beautiful place. We are not getting the architecture of the Tate Modern, we are getting the architecture of a buisness park in Serbaton. It has got to stop.

I have read numerous planning recommendations, by planners lately where their comments (constructive in many cases) are ignored and the planning applications are granted. Yes we should be promoting as much development as possible and creating a development environment but we should not just grant everything without looking at redesign or modification where inappropriate. The Council and City Manager should realise that they are destroying the city and should at least take the advice of the paid professionals that we are all supposed to rely on.

The Lonely Planet guide calls Irish people tacky. People in Dublin describe development in Cork as low class, plastic and tacky. We can hardly disagree with them.

Please look around at the stage set that is the centre of Cork and become aware of what was trying to be achieved by its original concept. Public bildings were clearly positiond and the general mass of buildings has a considerate calmness that creates a stage set of considerable grace and proportion. While the planners and architects are largely ignored, Cork is run by people who have no real education in the field of planning and urban design. Goodbye Cork. Hello Serbiton. Hello Marbella. Goodbye education. Hello ignorance. Goodbye democracy. Hello greed, deceipt and hello to corruption. We are not overestimating. There is no equality in Cork, no freedom, no brotherhood. There is no democracy. There is hardly a free or educated press. Recently the city manager sold a portion of the city centre on Popes Quay to a property developer to park his cars for 1 euro. Though the area is of significan value to the city as an open space. The Civic Trust supported this. They should resign.This was public land since its development in the 18th Century. Planning files have gone missing. It gets worse. Go and ask for the planning file for 6 and 7 Lapps quay in the Planning Department. See what you get. Go and look at the planning file for 21 Lapps Quay.

@republicofcork wrote:

I have read numerous planning recommendations, by planners lately where their comments (constructive in many cases) are ignored and the planning applications are granted. Yes we should be allowing as much development as possible and creating a development environment but we should not just grant everything without looking at redesign or modification where inappropriate. The council and city manager should realise that they are destroying the city and should at least take the advice of the paid professionals that we are all supposed to rely on.

republic of cork, please give examples of the recommendations of planners which were ignored. The City Manager has attempted to drag the planners out of the 18th century. They haved kicked and screamed and want to stay as unambitious and as unexciting as possible. The planners sadly have no wish to help in the creation of an exciting vibrant city. The cats’ vomit at Victoria Cross – from the Victoria Mills to the excremental trident at the Kingsley – give no grounds for hope of imagination from our most illustrious planners.

Whats so interesting about the files on 6/7 Lapps Quay ?
Reading between the lines on your “rant” I think that you are upset with a.Planners. b.Politicians c.Architects.d.Developers.

Apart from a few generalisations could you be more specific about which developers / developments ?

Compared to Dublin / Limerick / Galway and most of the UK Cork has escaped the worst of the building boom over the past 10 years and the central island area of the city is in good nick developing nicely apart from the obvious Merchants Quay / Bus Station and North Main St. shopping centre etc. eyesores.

Peoploe in Dublin describe development in Cork as low class, plastic and tacky. We can hardly disagree with them.

Funnily enough this is how most people would describe developments in Dublin as well. This is a national problem and I agree with Spinal Tap that we have escaped the worst of it.

Kyrl’s quay is my pet hate of the celtic tiger era developments in Cork. That Multistorey carpark should count as a crime against the people of Cork.

The University are far from free of blame, the science building is an absolute monstrosity, and houses the most uncomfortable lecture halls in the known world. (The geography building is class 🙂 )

@kesey wrote:

republic of cork, please give examples of the recommendations of planners which were ignored. The City Manager has attempted to drag the planners out of the 18th century. They haved kicked and screamed and want to stay as unambitious and as unexciting as possible. The planners sadly have no wish to help in the creation of an exciting vibrant city. The cats’ vomit at Victoria Cross – from the Victoria Mills to the excremental trident at the Kingsley – give no grounds for hope of imagination from our most illustrious planners.

Lets face it the planners are only ok. the education of a planner doesnt really give a true appreciation for urban design or architecture and current zoning policies are creating enormouse social and transport problems. But the regeneration of the city is something they have been trying to work on. The city owns much public space and like it or not the regeneration of Patrick Street and the Grand Parade will help Cork. The repair and reinforcement of areas of public space is a tried and tested form of regeneration of cities. In combination with this simple buildings like Soho Bar on the Grand Parade will help to regenerate life and interest in the city. Thats what we are trying to do? Isnt it? Aren’t we trying to reinvent the cist like Bristol or Newcastle or Barcelona? To give it new life?………….but we are not, we are handing it over to developers.

Look at the file for 21 Lavitts Quay. The recomendations of the planners and public professionals were to reduce the height of the building and relook at the architectural expression. This building has seriously damaged the continuation of the quay, the setting of listed buildings and the riverscape as a whole. It did not need to be that way and a sensitivly designed building here could have greatly contributed to the environment of the city and equally to the pocket of the Developer and the CV of the City Manager. In his wisdom though the City Manager ignored the appointed Government Professionals and in the interests of nobody but the Developer, who stood to make huge profits either way, granted permission for the building. Therefor the opportunity for the city generally to have a positive influence from this building has been missed and the protection we get however frustrating and even inept it might be from paid professional public servants is lost. So we have nothing but the taste and stupidity of a developer combined with the ego and self promotion of a Manager………and the City will suffer long term. What a missed opportunity for the city and in reality a greatly missed oportunity for the developer. In the long run this crude building which is all vulgar show and no substance will not hold its value. This is example number One.

Here is number Two:
Railings went up in front of 51 Popes Quay in Cork City Centre, enclosing a piece of public ground. It is a wedge shape created by the straightening of the river which used to run at an angle. It is an exciting public space of huge potential to the city. The railings went up over Chrismas of 2005 while the Planning Dept was closed. Planning was sought to retain them and was reccomended for rejection for many reasons: style, planting, suburbanisation of the space, bad design etc and the fact that it enclosed public land for the private use of only one individual! This area is right in the centre of Cork.

The City Manager makes many mistakes by ignoring valid comment and professional recomendations on particular sites. The City council go along with this. It would be like the Government allowing the President to overrule one bill after another.

Sean Keohane is the owner of the property that railed off public land for his private car parking. He is a developer and is trying to develope other areas of the city.
The Civic Trust house is next door. It is an exceptionally rare building of about 1740.
The Civic Trust has not notably been active in Cork recently. It is run by John Miller. John has no training in architecture or history and is an Accountant. John likes to park his car in front of the Civic Trust house when he arrives at work. He might say the buildings are vulnerable and his experience is limited to the idea of providing railings. Railings and a car park for his car.

An application for planning to retain the railings at 51 Poes Quay and add them to the Civic trust house at Number 50 the Civic Trust house was made. It was approved by the City Manager ignoring the recomendations not to do so by the planning department.
The decision was appealed so the application was withdrawn by Mr Keohane and the Civic Trust. No doubt all parties knew that Bord Pleanala would not allow the transfer of public space to private use or the inappropriate design of the railings in proximity to an 18th C. building.

A new tack was presented……………the manager proposed to sell the land to Sean Keohane of 51 Popes Quay first, to presumably strengthening his situation in terms of planning to retaint the railings.
The manager argued to the Council and against protest…………..it was voted to sell the land to Sean Keohane for….1 euro.

Having investigated the land from historic maps and from local people i am positive this area was always public space and used as such. When the civic trust house was being developed a few years ago it was left unfinished by the City Council.

This would not happen in say…..France, because they have a democracy, they do things in the interests of the greater good not the exploitation of public assets for individual people at the expense of others.

This situation is rotten to the core. It is entierly undemocratic and demonstrates the flaw in the City Manager system in Ireland and also the lack of any serious Civic Trust in Cork. Cork is being ripped to shreds at present. The sise of the city may limit it intellectually. We also have no free press as the local papers often have development issues themselves.

At the very least these actions are dishonest and are related to influence peddling? At worst they are much more and we may only imagine what else is going on. When will the government intervene as it has done so before on realising that the system is not working in Cork?

Lavitts quay has an extremely rare building that was once the Lavitt Gallery. Watch as the City Manager allows it to be destroyed. We are nearly the richest country in the world and we cant build well in an urban environment and we cant integrate our heritage with development. We are limited here to the single cow farm ambitions of a few unqualified people. It is a crying shame for our City and this Country and it will ensure the development of this country as a one City State and Cork as a place of provincial mediocraty. So many of us are ashamed of this City and those who represent us. We are ashamed because they don’t represent us. They represent themselves.

Corruption is described as dishonesty.
Dishonesty is a term which in common usage may be defined as the act of being dishonest; to act without honesty; a lack of probity, to cheat, lying or being deliberately deceptive; lacking in integrity; to be knavish, perfidious, corrupt or treacherous; charlatanism or quackery.
Dishonesty is the fundamental component of a majority of offences relating to the acquisition, conversion and disposal of property (tangible or intangible) defined in criminal law.

corruption (uncountable and countable; plural corruptions)
The act of corrupting or of impairing integrity, virtue, or moral principle; the state of being corrupted or debased; loss of purity or integrity; depravity; wickedness; impurity; bribery.
Political corruption, corruption of a political system through bribery, intimidation, extortion, vote buying, destabilization, or influence peddling

Great posts, republicofcork – I think there are a lot of people who would agree with your overall sentiments on developments in this country, but few who could express themselves as well as you have done here.

OK, first of all I’m not an architect or an architecture/planning student. I’m only a guy who’s interested in this stuff but a complete amateur so I’m probably missing something. I don’t get why people hate 21 lavitt’s quay so much. Most people I know seem to like it and think it has nice details and such. I don’t think it’s particularly brilliant but it does take the attention away from the horrendous opera house. I actually wouldn’t mind those houses in front being torn down (they look like they’re in terrible condition anyway) to make way for a building with an element even taller than 21 lavitts quay. At 8 to 9 stories max that would make a nice peak between 21 LQ and the opera house.

I agree that some really terrible crap is being built in Cork,

and some even more terrible stuff

but I do think there are developments which are quite good, far better than the two above. I really like what’s been done with the county hall. It actually looks quite decent and about a million times better than what was there before. Sorry, I didn’t take a picture of the top but I think it’s got some nice detail now.

I took a good few photos the other day since I wanted to test my new camera so I decided to take a load of pictures of various places in Cork, a good few of which were of construction projects 😀

The new school of music:

Another piece of crap, I don’t know what it’s called but those tiny pvc windows are terrible, also the cowshed type roof sticking out doesn’t help. I’ve seen these shed-type roofs popping on other buildings in other places, I’ve no idea why anyone would want a roof like that, maybe they want a bit of a country feel in the building 😀

New boole extension. Will have to see how it looks

I can’t remember what this one is, I even go to UCC but still don’t know

I’m limited to 10 pictures so I have to make more posts, sorry.

More student apartments (they do seem infinitely better than the trash next door)

Not related but I like this picture I took 😀

The new juries development. Pity about the taller part that was axed, they got rid of the only element that added some spice to this thing. It’s OK now but way too uniform by my liking.

City hall extension, a combination of some very good but also some very crappy elements, hopefully the end result will look OK.

Can’t remember that this is called but I remember commenting on it, looks good from this angle. Decided I wouldn’t bother taking a picture from the other side 😀

Another building around that area:

Clarion, City Quarter and that O’Flynn Construction building (don’t know what it’s called). These 3 buildings look good together I think, not great but good. As you might have guessed I’m not a fan of uniformness and I think that some variation in height would have been nice. I’m not asking for a 100-storey skyscraper but the main critisism I have for the Dublin docklands is the uniform height and I hope this doesn’t happen here too. I wouldn’t mind seeing some more bold projects coming up though, something like that kennedy’s proposal (really hope it gets built :D)

Scultpure in front of the clarion:

Across the bridge from the opera house:

I’ve found that most people who have an interest in architecture like this building while everyone else hates it with a passion.

And phase 2

I’m actually going to Finland tomorrow…

but from Dublin airport 😀

Wow – Jurys was knocked down to be replaced by it’s modern day equivalent. Awful.

@d_d_dallas wrote:

Wow – Jurys was knocked down to be replaced by it’s modern day equivalent. Awful.

Happily, I think that the picture of the new Jurys does the building an injustice. The bricks and mortar look considerably better than the photo which gives the edifice a very fragile and el cheapo look.

lol who designed the new Jurys. What an idiot.

OK, firstly I must commend Malec on his extensive photographic tour of some of the new developments around the City. That sort of thing, along with the heartfelt comments from RepublicofCork are what this thread needs to keep it lively and interesting.

With regard to RepublicofCork’s comments, I don’t know if I entirely agree with all of the points made. I’d agree that there seems to be certain very high profile cases where the advice of planners (both at CIty Council and ABP) has been completely ignored by the Manager. My own pet project, City Square/Lady’s Well in Blackpool is a case in point. However, I think it is to go a bit far to suggest that because a decision was taken which was counter to the position you would take (or took), that there is wide spread corruption going on involving City Council and developers. I’m afraid I simply don’t subscribe to the conspiracy theories and the demonising of developers as a group.
Cork is a merchant city and the vast, vast majority of what is now the historic stock of buildings which we should rightly protect were built by merchants/landowners or what we would now call developers. Developers (although it may not seem like it) have a limited budget with which to construct a building. They have no wish to get involved in lengthy, drawn out negotiations with planning authorities and they generally have no wish to disturb local residents. For that reason, most major projects in the city are of a reasonable standard when they reach Navigation House. Some are excellent and others are poor. To be fair, the majority of the rubbish is weeded out pretty fast. For example, the early proposals for the Capital Cinema site and the Cornmarket Centre site. What we’re left with are solid, decent, mostly well designed buildings which add to an area. Whether you love them architecturally or not is not the point. You either like it or you don’t: some love the new Carrolls Quay apartments, others don’t. Some people (God help them) actually like the Victoria Cross apartments, others do not. I would argue that Victoria Cross was a bad mistake by planners, but I would not suggest that it was part of some conspiracy to scar that part of the City. Nobody needs the hassle of CSD, who quite reasonably, are on guard against other developments in the area.
Republic asks the question as to whether we are trying to “reinvent the city like Bristol or Newcastle or Barcelona?”. And thats that problem: we hold up cities such as Bristol as some sort of utopia for architects everywhere despite the fact that there has been some terrible buildings constructed in these cities in the past few years. Not every single building in these cities are worldclass. Some are excellent, some are poor, most are average. Don’t get me wrong, in our planning we should always strive for high quality, but we should not have unreasonably high expectations!

As for the 50/51 Popes Quay situation, there should be no railings there. Full stop. Even the planners agree on that. I’m not particularly bothered who “owns” the land. I’d suggest that it is not of much recreational use to the City, the most you could do is site a park bench there! Its use is as an open space in which to display the superb Civic Thrust building. I’d suggest we will see the unauthorised railings removed in the near future.

As for Jury’s, its a very fine development. Exponentially better than its predecessor and will provide a pleasant vista heading west from the City Centre.

Any images of the new Cork airport terminal?

no photos till ye cough up 160 million. 😀 😀

Check out the pics on this link:

http://cork-spotters.com/photo/displ…e.php?pos=-289

and http://www.corkairport.com

Nice to see the bilingual signage in ‘Aerfort Chorcaí’

radioactiveman it is true that most developers are well meaning but there are a few that consistently drive their projects in a worryingly self serving way. With this well maening could be a description for a psychopath too so it doesnt abslove people of responsability. The difference with what is occuring now and the past is in the scale of what is happening now. Before good and bad buildings were built and the majority of the fabric could have absormed the odd small scale misconceived building. Now developments are huge and act like an oil spill that is just too big for the environment to take without serios intervention. We do need to look at what architecturally makes up our city and we need to educate ourselves about it and respect it. Like it or not the two Victoria cross buildings that so many people hate have much more in common with the Civic Trust House in terms of design than almost any recent building in the city. They have a clay applied facade and flush windows and a severe minimalism based on careful proportioning of elements. All also use the best of known technowlogy of their time. U may hate them but these buildings are intellectually very similar to that tradition which is admired throughout the world as IrisGeorgian architecture and design. A quiet version of these buildings on Lavits Quay designeed by this Architect would be very welcome. Perhaps we could argue about the scale or location of the Victoria Cross buildings but given teir incredibly minimal detailing and proportions they are some of the best and most contextual buildings in the city. Their quiet simple form is Irish and it is humble and without overt devices or decoration. In all nature form does follow function. These buildings and the Civic Trust House are beautiful. 21 Lavitts Quay is a mutant. It is cheap and nasty and ignorant of its surroundings. It could barely be worse than it is. It is like the cheapest christmas decoration I have ever seen. That it sits in the same vista as St Mary’s Church is a crime. The development at Jurys is only marginally better though lets face it how could it be worse. The architectural expression here is remarkably similar to that of the ESSO garage next door. Have a look at it. Perhaps O’Callighans are trying to be contextual after all!!!!! Ha Ha.

Speaking of the new jury’s it reminds me very much of the new Jurys Croke Park hotel with the same exterior finish which makes me wonder do jurys have a desgin standard for all their new hotels or is there a similar design team involved in the new Cork hotel. They tring to make their hotels the same no matter where you go.

ABP have granted permission to Meteor Communications Ltd. for the retention of antennae and dishes within the steeple and bell tower of St. Nicholas’ Church on Cove Street, Cork. This overrules the decision of the City COuncil who refused permission for retention saying it would, “compromise the integrity of the bell tower and steeple and introduce a stringent feature which would seriously injure and be out of character wit the important architectural features and the historic fabric of the structure.”
The church building, which is a protected structure, has been deconsecrated and is currently undergoing conversion to office space for the use of the Probation Service.
The application sought to retain six antennae which were mounted in the top opes of the steeple, facing west, east and north; to retain microwave dishes at the second floor level behind new louvre screens of the bell tower; and various related fixtures and fittings.
The ABP inspector reported that the antennae were “conspicuous in the views from within the area and detract from the architectural integrity of the steeple. In effect, the antennae block up the openings, (from the inner side) and the material in which they are fabricated is incompatible with and detracts from the ashlar limestone fabric and decorative detail of the steeple. The removal and replacement of the existing louvres at second floor is considered an unessential removal of historic fabric. “
Despite the inspector reccomending refusal, the board overruled this, citing the need to improve the mobile communications network in the country.

Image of the steeple of St.Nicholas’ Church, with antennae clearly visible in opes:

Speackin of antannae / dishes etc anyone notice the 2 sattelite dishes mounted on a pole on top of the newly refurbished County Hall ? Not much thought put into their location as they are a bit obvious and spoil the lines of the rooftop extension.

The new railings at the Beamish and Crawford site on South Main Street have been mentioned here before. They are pretty appalling by any standards and detract hugely from what is a beautiful building. A poured concrete wall has been topped with bog standard galvanised steel railings, and then large square bars have been inserted in the gaps in between. Not alone those it look bad, it indicates some level of incompetence that the architect/engineer could not build a wall and find some railings to match.
They were being painted earlier today, so maybe there’s more to come. I’ve attached some images of the monstrosity below.
Its a tiny point, but take a look at the fleur de lis on the large supporting bars- if these had been omitted the look of the whole thing might have been improved- at least everything would have been at a uniform height.

A decision is due to made by teh end of this month on Frinailla’s plans for the former Good Shepherd Convent in Sunday’s Well. The company submitted an application in February to construct 274 residential units in the former religious institution and its grounds. The original buildings are to be conserved, with modern extensions demolished to make way for 26 apartments in the building itself. Within the grounds, it is proposed to xonstruct 10 apartment buildings which range in height from 8 to 3 storeys. 10 3-storey townhouses are also proposed. A 3 level basement carpark is also proposed.
Further information was submitted by the company, after a request by the planning authority. This submission was made at the start of July. Third party submissions have also been lodged by a number of interested parties, including local residents and An Taisce.
The central part of the convent, including the chapel was badly damaged by fire a number of years ago, prior to Frinailla purchasing the site. This was after protracted attempts to obtain planning permission for a large number of student apartments on the site. The site was also previously owned by UCC who had some interest in making it the base for the university’s Arts faculty.

i just wanted to say that im really sick of these small minded people going on about putting a cap on building heights to 3 storys! This is a ridiculous theory and they should really come to there senses and realise that they are living in a CITY and these developments are inevitable and a city which is currently under a building boom and that in most cases the land prices wont make developments under 3 storeys viable and anyway where suited high rise buildings make a city more attractive and feel more like a city and if there going to proceed with there small minded theorys in which they dont like development really, cause thats what it comes down to, why dont they shag off and move to the country or evan to a town somewhere where their theorys will have some meaning! Are these people for real really!?

@corkdood wrote:

Sorry for going off topic here but i am curious about a development that appears to be beginning on the Blarney Road just at the junction with Harbour View Road in Hollyhill there appears to be a new site entrance and earth moving work in progress. Is this to be a residential development?

The 200+ affordable houses under construction behind Our Lady’s hospital are to be complemented by some social housing units built by CCC with the entrance along the Blarney Road across from the Harbour View Road junction. Traffic lights are planned at this junction to ease traffic.
I think this may be the development you mentioned in your post.

Will the lights work or cause problems?

Daniel

The theory behind limiting height in this case is not that tall buildings should not be built per se in fact most locations are suitable for taller buildings and parts of the docklands could accomodate buildings as high as you like.

In this case the concern is that the Convent which is an attractive buildings would no longer be the dominent faeture in the local area and be obscured by buildings that are less attractive. The design of these ones seems good though and I’m sure there will be a premium over more mundane units being built else where.

@republicofcork wrote:

Perhaps we could argue about the scale or location of the Victoria Cross buildings but given teir incredibly minimal detailing and proportions they are some of the best and most contextual buildings in the city. Their quiet simple form is Irish and it is humble and without overt devices or decoration.

I am no architect nor designer, I play music so have some shred of creativity. Those buildings are absolutely AWFUL. Maybe the plan was that all the yellow bricks together makes up one giant yellow brick and the browny/reddy ones below it are worse. It was a glorious chance to 6/7 storey a fabulous gateway building. This business about keeping a city flat is in the dark ages. Its not feasible given the increase in sprawl. Although Cork is one of 2 cities where the population falls. Maybe the fact that there is nowhere to live in the 3 storey capped yellow brick buildings that are built. Its only my own opinion but they look dreadful. If thats the humble quiet simple Irish form then architect schools curriculum needs to be changed from the Wizard of Oz.

Roches Stores exits retail business
(RTE NEWS)

August 08, 2006 10:35
One of the best known names in the Irish retail business, Roches Stores, is to sell 10 of its 11 stores, though it will continue to own the properties. 90 jobs will go as a result of the move.
British department store chain Debenhams has confirmed that it will take over nine of the outlets in the Republic of Ireland. The stores are: Henry Street in Dublin; Blanchardstown; Blackrock; Tallaght; Patrick Street in Cork; Limerick; Tralee; Galway and Waterford. Debenhams is paying €29m for the stores’ assets, and will lease the properties from Roches.
Marks & Spencer has acquired the Roches outlet in the Wilton Shopping Centre just outside Cork City, while Roches’ home and gift store in Nutgrove in Dublin will close with the loss of 14 jobs. The company’s support office in Sandyford in Dublin will also shut with the loss of 77 buying and administrative jobs.
Roches, which employed 2,000 people at the 11 stores, says the remaining staff will transfer to Debenhams and Marks & Spencer.
Debenhams already has stores in Dublin, Cork and Newbridge. It plans to convert the new outlets over the next six to 12 months. The Wilton store will open in Spring 2007 and will be Marks & Spencer’s 15th in the Republic.
A statement from Roches Stores said the deal was subject to Competition Authority approval, but full transfer of the stores was expected by September 6. All stores will trade normally as Roches Stores up to this date.
It said its main aim was to sell the business as a going concern to protect the maximum number of jobs

@kite wrote:

The 200+ affordable houses under construction behind Our Lady’s hospital are to be complemented by some social housing units built by CCC with the entrance along the Blarney Road across from the Harbour View Road junction. Traffic lights are planned at this junction to ease traffic.
I think this may be the development you mentioned in your post.

Thank you for that. I had thought that it was going to be a private development. Didn’t Coleman Brothers get permission for some housing in the area?

@Radioactiveman wrote:

Roches Stores exits retail business
(RTE NEWS)

will debenhams now move out of mahon point? hardly sustainable to have city and suburb is it? unless they lease the majority of town out to other brands maybe – but they sort of do that already.

@Pug wrote:

will debenhams now move out of mahon point? hardly sustainable to have city and suburb is it? unless they lease the majority of town out to other brands maybe – but they sort of do that already.

Precisely, there’s little if any difference in brands. That said the Dunnes Stores to Mahon Point instead of Debenhams rumours have been circulating for years – I wonder whether that can happen because Tesco usually have a noncompete clause in their leases

Also heard rumours about Pennys occupying the space. That would be terrible… If they were to leave, we would need something much bigger than Dunnes or Pennys, John Lewis or Arnotts maybe…

They are just rumours! I have heard that Debenhams is doing well in Mahon Point, and that it’s keeping the rest of the centre going! They must have signed a lease for a set period of time. Owen O’Callaghan will be looking to extend the centre after the long awaited Academy St. development.

Actually, there hasn’t been much said about that development since the 1st draft of pics were released a while back.

Also, there still are a couple of units empty in Mahon Point (I think so anyways – near the Debenhams end on the ground floor) – strange that they haven’t been snapped up yet!

that penneys rumour has been going around since MP opened. Debenhams will be in Mahon for another while yet as they have invested so much in the fitout of their store.

When debenhams do open in the city centre it will allow more people to see the range of goods they do offer. A lot of people are put off by the designers at Debenhams advertising campaign and think the goods will be pricey but thay also have their own label goods which are not too pricey. they may then make the trip down to MP. Some Cork ppl are set in their ways and will not go shopping anywhere else other than the city centre

@corkdood wrote:

Thank you for that. I had thought that it was going to be a private development. Didn’t Coleman Brothers get permission for some housing in the area?

Coleman’s are building the affordable housing with the entrance at the junction of Blarney / Harbour View Road, the affordable housing entrance is planned 200mtrs to the East opposite the GAA club on Blarney Road.
A 10 – 15% ratio is planned ie. 200+ affordable / 20-30 social mix.

@Pug wrote:

will debenhams now move out of mahon point? hardly sustainable to have city and suburb is it? unless they lease the majority of town out to other brands maybe – but they sort of do that already.

:confused: What now for the expantion of the Wilton Centre and the Howard Holdings / Mr. J.O’Ds plans to redevelop the overpriced (when they bought it) site. Tesco are said to be stand alone independents on the East side of the site but rumour was that Howard/ O’D had bought the rest INCLUDING Roches ??

Dunnes Stores have got the green light for the development of their Patrick Street store after no appeals were recieved by An Bord Pleanala in the alotted time after CCC granted permission for the development. This followed significant alterations from the original design.

@kesey wrote:

Happily, I think that the picture of the new Jurys does the building an injustice. The bricks and mortar look considerably better than the photo which gives the edifice a very fragile and el cheapo look.

FYI they’re open jointed terracotta tiles on a Techrete panel

@Radioactiveman wrote:

Dunnes Stores have got the green light for the development of their Patrick Street store after no appeals were recieved by An Bord Pleanala in the alotted time after CCC granted permission for the development. This followed significant alterations from the original design.

Is that a first in recent memory? A major development thru planning and appeal with no appeals!?

The appeal against the decision made on the 16th December, 2005 by Cork City Council to grant permission to Grangefield Developments Limited for the construction of two bedroom apartments to the ground floor as an alteration to a permitted development has been refused by ABP.
It was considered that the proposed development, which involves the loss of the proposed landscaped courtyard which was an integral part of the development permitted under planning register TP 04/28014, would deprive the overall development scheme of adequate, convenient, effective and usable private open space and would as a result constitute a substandard form of development for future occupants.

I’m at home for the next few days and was thinking, if I get bored I might go out and take some pictures again. Are there any particular developments you’d like me to visit, of course provided they’re within walking distance. I live near the city centre and I don’t mind walking a bit, last time I went out to the county hall, that’s about the maximum amount of walking I’m willing to do 😀

If you could – I’d love to see some pics of Lavits Quay – there’s alot of talk about it but I haven’t seen it in a good while. The Cornmarket Street development from the Tesco carpark view point might be a good one too! 😀 The last pic posted from that site was couple of months ago – it would be interesting to see what progree has been made! 😎

AND – if you’re willing to walk to the Count Hall – perhaps you could get a few snaps of the Kingsley dev. and the latest from the Jurys site! :rolleyes:

@rebel_city wrote:

If you could – I’d love to see some pics of Lavits Quay – there’s alot of talk about it but I haven’t seen it in a good while. The Cornmarket Street development from the Tesco carpark view point might be a good one too! 😀 The last pic posted from that site was couple of months ago – it would be interesting to see what progree has been made! 😎

AND – if you’re willing to walk to the Count Hall – perhaps you could get a few snaps of the Kingsley dev. and the latest from the Jurys site! :rolleyes:

If you can make it to the City Hall car park and tak the lift to the top level take a few picks of the O’Flynn Construction Eglington St. site and the new City Council Offices.

@Radioactiveman wrote:

There has been a serious breach of planning regulations at a development on College Road.
“Cliffords” shop (well known to generations of students) as well as no.’s 1 and 2 Westbourne, College Road have (over the weekend, surprise, surprise) been reduced to rubble to make way for a new development on the site. Planning permission for such demolition has not been granted.
PP was recently conditionally granted (04/28769) for the demolition of a portion of the existing shop and the dwellings and to construct 4 no. terraced townhouses along Highfield Avenue. With regard to the properties 1 and 2 Westbourne it was intended to convert these into 4 no. apartments.
Permission had previously been refused by CCC and ABP for the development of 8 no. student apartments on 4 floors at 1-3 Westbourne, College Road.
The applications were made by a Ms. Ann Clifford.

The Planning Department at CCC can be contacted as follows, if you feel this merits a complaint:
Telephone: + 353 21 4924321 / 4924324 / 4924325 / 4924720 / 4924722 / 4924723

Fax: + 353 21 4924706

e-mail: planning@corkcity.ie

Well, the wholesale demolition of College Road rumbles on. In addition to the incidents noted above a few weeks ago, this morning I noticed that demolition work was on going at the south west corner of the very same junction (i.e. junction of College Road, Highfield Avenue and Gaol Walk).
Numbers 61 and 62 College Road are two more charming, vernacular houses, regarding which a number of planning applications have been processed recently:: permission was granted for 2x 3 bed semi-detached houses on a site fronting Highfield Avenue and to the rear of these houses (05/29358); also, permission has (quite amazingly in my view) been granted for the demolition of number 61 College Road (05/30036). Whoever granted such a permission should hang his/her head in shame.
Number 61 is currently being demolished.
So, in the space of just a few weeks, a very fine array of houses fronting onto a busy junction, which were of decent, local architectural importance have been needlessly dmolished.

Map of the College Road, Gaol Walk Junction
Indicated in red on the map is the approximate site of the first incident-former Cliffords shop, etc.
Indicated in blue on the map is the approximate site of the second demolition (in progress).
I’ll try to post more images later.

@malec wrote:

I’m at home for the next few days and was thinking, if I get bored I might go out and take some pictures again. Are there any particular developments you’d like me to visit, of course provided they’re within walking distance. I live near the city centre and I don’t mind walking a bit, last time I went out to the county hall, that’s about the maximum amount of walking I’m willing to do 😀

If you’re flying in a few pics of the airport with people actually in it would be great.
Cornmarket street development is definitely of interest from the coal quay side.

And how about a picture of Grand Parade now that redevelopment has begun.

Any one know how Frinailla’s development is developing (old Grand Parade Hotel/Sir Henry’s)?

Any decision made on the new library yet? Has the new hotel on the Mall/Parnell Place gone into construction?

All Pics will be very much appreciated.

@phatman wrote:

Not sure about Superquinn, but M&S definitely. I agree, it is a pity Roches are bowing out.

Superquinn would be a great addition to the city – if you’re prepared to pay a little more you get great quality…;)

@Spinal Tap wrote:

Mr & Mrs Spinal Tap picked up 2 Dutch tourists thumbing from Cobh to Cork on Saturday last and they were asking us what there was for tourists in Cork City.They had done the English market,Shandon,St.Finbarrs and the city centre area in a whole morning ! They loved Cork and thought it was a great city after 3 days in Dublin and being ripped off at Oxygen which was a dissapointment for them but there was nothing for them to do here and keep them in the city apart from bars and restaurants shops etc.We directed them to Kinsale,Clonakilty etc.

Cork needs more visitor attractions :-

Outdoor spaces / parks ah la Park Guell Barcelona
City Quays under utilised for proper paving seating landscaping ( cars parked right up to river ) massive potential.
Maritime Museum in the docklands.
Indoor Aquarium similar to the one in La Rochell France
Arts Museum / Venue like Gateshead or dare I say it Bilbao Guggenheim !
Feel free to add to list

Cork has the jobs,Population and wealth to support a vibrant arts and cultural scene but need to wake up to whats happening internationally in cities of a similar size across the rest of Europe.

B.T.W. Are’nt the new railings at Penrose Quay great next to the new sculpture installation ? They make you realise how bad the railings are across the rest of the City’s quays.

what about UCC buildings and grounds and the Art Gallery there…

admittedly the thread has moved on but I haven’t checked in in a while….

Anyone know anything about the new residential development beside Garryduff sports centre across from Foxwood? They look almost complete but I can’t find anything aout about launchdates or prices or anything….

Thanks for the idea of taking pictures from the top of carparks. I didn’t think of that and I’ve been wanting to see the eglinton street site properly for a while. I did feel like a gimp going up to the 5th floor just to take pictures of a hole in the ground, I didn’t get any stares though 😀
I was actually on my way to the bus station since I went to Killarney last night. The bus was full though so I had to wait an hour for the next one, what better way to spend a free hour than to take a few photos (well not quite an hour since I had to buy myself some food, etc)

From the top of the city hall:

The eglinton street site, just a hole right now. The hole where the tower’s supposed to go is 2 times as deep as the rest though.

I keep forgetting what this building is called. The picture I took of this a few weeks ago was from the good side, this is the part I don’t like.

The city hall extension from some not so usual angles:

From the paul street carpark:

I didn’t have any time to get proper photos of 21 lavitts quay but I did my best 😀

Proper pictures of the cornmarket street development.

Once again Malec, you have outdone yourself!

I’m particularly glad to see the images of the Cornmarket Centre. Just gives you an idea of how close they’re excavating next to St.Pauls Church and those houses off Coal Quay…precision stuff (or not so precise since they made a wall fall down a few months ago 🙂
Fabuloously quirky views of the City hall extension also with the School of Music in the background.

@Radioactiveman wrote:

Once again Malec, you have outdone yourself!

I’m particularly glad to see the images of the Cornmarket Centre. Just gives you an idea of how close they’re excavating next to St.Pauls Church and those houses off Coal Quay…precision stuff (or not so precise since they made a wall fall down a few months ago 🙂
Fabuloously quirky views of the City hall extension also with the School of Music in the background.

Are Habitat taking the Paul St.church in the cornmarket Street development ?

@Spinal Tap wrote:

Are Habitat taking the Paul St.church in the cornmarket Street development ?

While we’re on the subject of the Cornmarket Centre, I’ve managed to finally get some images of what the finished product will look like.
From a retail point of view, it’ll comprise 17 retail units on 2 floors over basement on a c.1.5 acre site comprising the old Guy and Co. site and St. Pauls Church. The development will offer units ranging from 93 to 3716 sq.m for food fasion and entertainment uses.
There will be two large retail units at basement level (c. 1000 sq.m. each) along with parking for 66 cars.There will be five units facing on to Cornmarket Street at first floor level (the largest being 753 sq. m.). There will also be a mall area at this level with physical linkages to St.Pauls which will house a retail unit.There will be three retail units on a mezzane level with more on the second floor.
There are lots of rumours as to who is going to take some of the larger units, but they remain that at the moment. Irish and European are handling the retail letting.

It’ll be great to see St. Paul’s Church put to some use. It is a cool building and such a waste at present.

Wow! Those pics look great! Can’t believe it got planning permission! I hope the stalls on the street are upgraded and maybe some of the English market co’s operating stalls there too! We’ll wait and see! The whole of town will have a great feel to it – from Emmet Place / Academy St – Paul St, all the lanes onto Patrick Steet down to the Grand Parade / Emmet Place & Cornmarket Street! Can’t wait! 🙂

@rebel_city wrote:

Wow! Those pics look great! Can’t believe it got planning permission! I hope the stalls on the street are upgraded and maybe some of the English market co’s operating stalls there too! We’ll wait and see! The whole of town will have a great feel to it – from Emmet Place / Academy St – Paul St, all the lanes onto Patrick Steet down to the Grand Parade / Emmet Place & Cornmarket Street! Can’t wait! 🙂

😎 The photos are great. I believe that CCC have plans to increase by way of license the number of stalls on the Coal Quay as well as requiring those already present to upgrade.
Should be one of the best streets in Cork when finished.

@kite wrote:

😎 The photos are great. I believe that CCC have plans to increase by way of license the number of stalls on the Coal Quay as well as requiring those already present to upgrade.
Should be one of the best streets in Cork when finished.

And thats not even counting the impending development of the Coal Quay Bar/Loft site, as well as the area surrounding the Bridewell.

@Radioactiveman wrote:

And thats not even counting the impending development of the Coal Quay Bar/Loft site, as well as the area surrounding the Bridewell.

What is planned for that site? I always felt it had some of the most underused potential in the city.

Also, is there any chance that the damage to the right hand side of the facade from when a vehicle entrance was put in will be fixed?

In the short term, there is nothing planned for the Loft Site, and both the furniture company and the bar continue to trade successfully. In the medium to long term, I believe it is reasonable to assume that the site will recieve considerable attention from developers.
Im not sure of the damage you are referring to.

@Radioactiveman wrote:

Im not sure of the damage you are referring to.

Stealing one of malec’s images…

The area inside the red circle was once a continuation of the arches along the rest of the facade. The ugly square entrance was put in place when it was briefly used as a cash and carry 30 years ago or so.

Looking at that image, the loft side of it desperately needs the clean up that was done on the Coal Quay Bar side.

🙁 Apologies for going off topic but the loss of Roches Stores started me thinking what was lost to Cork over the years, and what replaced same.
My top five would be;
Smiths Stores, now Gentleman’s Quarters
Cudmore’s, now Vodafone
Munster Arcade, now Penny’s
Pavilion Cinema, now HMV
Woodford Bourne, now McDonalds
Anything to add to this?

Anybody remember that supermarket on North Main Street where Mahers/Cummins is now? Started with a B I think. Anybody?

Bennetts, thats the one. Thanks.

that was a great department store! Got my 1st Holy communion dress there.

Lots of demolition work currently going on at the O’Callaghan site to the east of OCP’s Landmark development on Lavitt’s Quay. The site is composed of 15, 16 and 17Lavitt’s Quay as well as the former Cork Examiner Garages to the rear, on Half Moon Street. The space created by the demolition some years ago of 18 and 19 Lavitts quay is also part of this site.

After many seperate applications for components of thsi site, the whole site has been brought together under the OCP banner. No planning application has yet been submitted for the site. I believe number 17 is a listed building.

Anybody know OCP’s plans for the site?

17,18 and 19 Lavitt’s Quay, Cork

Did TCH not already have planning permission to construct an office block on that site. OCP took it on as part of the Academy Street deal I thought.

@THE_Chris wrote:

THE LOBBY BAR

🙂 Ah yes, forgot about that, remember going there on many occasions…can’t ever remember leaving.

Best pints in the city 🙁

@Spinal Tap wrote:

The Original Reardens Bar Washington Street now a massive “superpub”
Egans Patrick Street now Jack & Jones
The Launderette McCurtain St now a barbers.

If we could only lose Singers Corner – what a neglected eyesore.

😉 I understand this property is on the market with J.D.Sullivan & Co Auctioneers, so things could be happening.

Does anyone have any info/pics of the Munster Arcade in its hey day?

CCC have granted permission to Irish Nationwide to convert number 34 St. Patrick’s Street (with frontage onto Cook St.; currently vacant) to banking use and join the ground floor unit up with its current base at number 33.Extensive cahnges are to be made at upper levels for office use.
This follows years of applications concerning 33, 34 and 35 (former Burgerland, now Monsoon) as Irish Nationwide tried to expand their premises. The council’s insistance that the conversion of retail to financial on the street was unwelcome was the main stumbling block.
In submissions, concerns were raised that the door at number 34 be retained in the development, as there is ‘good reason’ to believe that it is the original 1920’s entrance. It was also argued that there has been no changes to the development plan since the last refusal and the conversion from retail to financial should not be allowed.
Indeed, the planners report reccomended refusal on the grounds thatthe development would “result in the loss of a preferred retail use on the prime retail frontage in the City Centre“.
As is becoming all too familiar, senior planners and managers within Cork City Council have taken the decision to ignore the advice of their planners. The planners are not perfect, but at least they adhere to democratically established development plans!
The development was granted with conditions which rule out the proposed limestone shopfronts and retain the existing painted cement-rendered front and 1920’s doorway. Importantly, the ‘zig-zag’ detail which survives on no.33 around the doors and windows is to be replicated at no. 34. It was present on number 34 before being rendered over at some stage.
So, maybe a defeat for proper planning, but at least they paid some attention to the architectural merit of the building by refusing the boring new limestone shopfront and conserving the original features.

@Radioactiveman wrote:

So, maybe a defeat for proper planning, but at least they paid some attention to the architectural merit of the building by refusing the boring new limestone shopfront and conserving the original features.

😮 I agree with your comment “a defeat for proper planning”
Just how dull and boring do our city fathers want Patrick St. to be?

@Radioactiveman wrote:

The new railings at the Beamish and Crawford site on South Main Street have been mentioned here before. They are pretty appalling by any standards and detract hugely from what is a beautiful building. A poured concrete wall has been topped with bog standard galvanised steel railings, and then large square bars have been inserted in the gaps in between. Not alone those it look bad, it indicates some level of incompetence that the architect/engineer could not build a wall and find some railings to match.
They were being painted earlier today, so maybe there’s more to come. I’ve attached some images of the monstrosity below.
Its a tiny point, but take a look at the fleur de lis on the large supporting bars- if these had been omitted the look of the whole thing might have been improved- at least everything would have been at a uniform height.

UPDATE
Obviously due to my vigorous campaigning on the matter 🙂 , Beamish and Crawford have sprung into action. The railings are now being painted, the unsightly metal bars are being removed and the poured concrete is being clad to give it ‘ye olde stone wall’ look.
I’ll put up an updated picture when I can get it, but I’m not sure such a finish is appropriate here. Wouldn’t good quality brickwork or render have been more in keeping with this almost industrial location?

Celebrated and Controversial Architect Will Alsop to Speak in Cork
“Creating buildings and spaces that continue to give pleasure in the future is one of our responsibilities [as architects].” Will Alsop

Avant garde architect Will Alsop, whose distinctive and controversial buildings provoke opposing reactions from critics, his fellow architects and the general public, is sure to trigger vigorous debate when he speaks in Cork this autumn. The British architect will explore the process of architecture as an act of change in his lecture as part of the Creating a Cultural City Lecture Series in Millennium Hall, Cork on Tuesday 17 October 2006 at 7pm.

Presented by the Cork City Council Arts Office, the Creating a Cultural City Lecture Series seeks to encourage an investigation into the role of culture in cities and the creative capacity of urban spaces. Established in 2004, the series has already hosted an impressive array of speakers to date including Charles Landry, Constantin Chiriac, Franco Bianchini and Professor Sir Peter Hall and continued earlier this year with independent arts producer and co-founder of the London International Festival of Theatre (Lift), Lucy Neal. It is hoped that the lectures series will engage cultural practitioners; the wider cultural community; urban planners; business, civic and political leaders and the general public in debating the role and potential of creativity in our cities.

Will Alsop is one of the most prominent UK architects. His practice is an international operation guided by the principle that architecture is both a vehicle and symbol of social change and renewal. The philosophy extends from the design of individual buildings to embrace broader principles of urbanism and city development. Alsop follows a parallel path as an artist, feeling that it is a discipline inseparable from architecture. He was a tutor of sculpture at Central St. Martins College of Art & Design, London, for several years, has held many other academic posts, and actively promotes the artistic contribution to the built environment.

The lecture by Will Alsop is the first of two lectures in October presented by the Cork City Council Arts Office with support from the Arts Council of Ireland. Details of the second lecture will be announced in the coming weeks. Admission to the lectures is free.

Further information is available from The Arts Office, Cork City Council on 021 492 4298 or via email at arts@corkcity.ie.

On a seperate note – a few posts back I mentioned the use of boardwalks on the quays in Cork – like in Dublin – would be good. Yesterday in Dublin I was walking up town from work and I took the boardwalk route (usually go a different way), it was an experience to say the least! I had to walk past a few groups of people who were eh… a bit intimidating! I was thinking this is majorly dodge! Then on the news this morning, and also on eveningecho.ie, there was a report that the Gardai are cracking down on anti-social behaviour and drug dealing on the Dublin boardwalks! Supposedly over the past few months they have gone down hill big time! Meant to be used to regenerate the city centre and for tourists but that hasn’t gone to plan! Just thought I’d bring it up! 😮

@rebel_city wrote:

On a seperate note – a few posts back I mentioned the use of boardwalks on the quays in Cork – like in Dublin – would be good. Yesterday in Dublin I was walking up town from work and I took the boardwalk route (usually go a different way), it was an experience to say the least! I had to walk past a few groups of people who were eh… a bit intimidating! I was thinking this is majorly dodge! Then on the news this morning, and also on eveningecho.ie, there was a report that the Gardai are cracking down on anti-social behaviour and drug dealing on the Dublin boardwalks! Supposedly over the past few months they have gone down hill big time! Meant to be used to regenerate the city centre and for tourists but that hasn’t gone to plan! Just thought I’d bring it up! 😮

😮 Had the “pleasure” of walking the boardwalk in Dublin last June in the company of a 6’6″ member of the Gardai. It was not an experience i would care to repeat with or without his company.
Until the bleeding hearts brigade are sorted and these “ladies and gents are fed to the fish in the liffey, or locked up Irish cities will never have the luxury of being truly European.

@kite wrote:

😮 I agree with your comment “a defeat for proper planning”
Just how dull and boring do our city fathers want Patrick St. to be?

thats a disgrace! they seem to be really worried about the lack of short break tourism in the city alright ! They go and turn one of the most central prime units on the main shooping street in the city into a bank? Theres no justification for that, especially when there is numerous new developments lying vacent for this type of use and a need for good retail space in the city centre and they go and do that, cant get over that decision!But back to before the change of use, everyones always saying that theres not enough big premises for the big names in the city centre and this was a good example of a prime unit and was lying vacent for months and still not taking over, can anyone explain this? Everyone has there own opinion but I just cant come to an answer , theres plenty of perfect units around that are just simply not been taking over and i dont see this happening in other cities like dub, lim or galway!? take lapps quay,lavits quay, camden quay,gearges quay,hickeys on maylor st and evan mahon point? :confused:

@Radioactiveman wrote:

UPDATE
Obviously due to my vigorous campaigning on the matter 🙂 , Beamish and Crawford have sprung into action. The railings are now being painted, the unsightly metal bars are being removed and the poured concrete is being clad to give it ‘ye olde stone wall’ look.
I’ll put up an updated picture when I can get it, but I’m not sure such a finish is appropriate here. Wouldn’t good quality brickwork or render have been more in keeping with this almost industrial location?

Well done it is good to see that your persistance has paid off and it was well directed those buildings are as good an example of their type in the Country.

BTW

It is surprising to see a bank take such a high cost pitch

@daniel_7 wrote:

thats a disgrace! they seem to be really worried about the lack of short break tourism in the city alright ! They go and turn one of the most central prime units on the main shooping street in the city into a bank? Theres no justification for that, especially when there is numerous new developments lying vacent for this type of use and a need for good retail space in the city centre and they go and do that, cant get over that decision!But back to before the change of use, everyones always saying that theres not enough big premises for the big names in the city centre and this was a good example of a prime unit and was lying vacent for months and still not taking over, can anyone explain this? Everyone has there own opinion but I just cant come to an answer , theres plenty of perfect units around that are just simply not been taking over and i dont see this happening in other cities like dub, lim or galway!? take lapps quay,lavits quay, camden quay,gearges quay,hickeys on maylor st and evan mahon point? :confused:

:confused: Just what is happening with Hickeys on Maylor St?
City Manager, Joe Gavin explaining the 23% increase in vacant space in the city centre mentioned that the considerable floor space in Hickeys was giving a skewed view of vacancies in the city yet nothing has been reported on this site in recent times.
Am I correct in recalling that Brideview Developments had an interest in the site?

Build shops, not more flats dammit.

@daniel_7 wrote:

thats a disgrace! they seem to be really worried about the lack of short break tourism in the city alright ! They go and turn one of the most central prime units on the main shooping street in the city into a bank? …….this was a good example of a prime unit and was lying vacent for months and still not taking over, can anyone explain this? Everyone has there own opinion but I just cant come to an answer , theres plenty of perfect units around that are just simply not been taking over and i dont see this happening in other cities like dub, lim or galway!? take lapps quay,lavits quay, camden quay,gearges quay,hickeys on maylor st and evan mahon point? :confused:

First of all, I don’t agree with CCC that an extension to an already existing bank on St.Patrick Street is a proper planning decision. It is against the thrust of the City’s development plan and reduces the City’s ability to compete with out of town development.
The reason why this spot was vacant for so long was simple due to the time needed to put this application together and get it sorted. The vast majority of vacant spaces on St.Patrick Street are also vacant because they are components of much larger retail developments in the pipeline. For example, the units to the west of Burger King are parts of the fledgling Capitol Cinema Development and the units near Academy Street are in waiting for a positive decision by planners on OCP plans for the block.
Indeed, in my view, things are going to get worse in St. Patrick’s Street – Grand Parade before they get better. You’ve got:
1. Dunnes Stores redevelopment (one entire city block, planning granted, work to begin before the end of the year)
2. Academy Street Development (Almost two more city blocks]Well done it is good to see that your persistance has paid off and it was well directed those buildings are as good an example of their type in the Country.

BTW

It is surprising to see a bank take such a high cost pitch[/QUOTE]
I may have over emphasised my role in this 🙂

I can’t remember who asked for images of 21 lavitt’s quay but here they are, nothing too spectacular.

And also, now that they’ve starting knocking down these houses, does anyone know what will be built here? I remember seeing a hideous redbrick and blocky proposal for this site, hope that’s not the final version

@Radioactiveman wrote:

I passed South Mall/Parnell place late last week. Work is underway at the Corbett Brother’s site at 17, 18 Parnell place and Beasly St. With listed facades to the Parnell place side, the demolition work looked a bit brutal for my liking…part of one of the facades is now missing!

Real pity about the facade, I preseumed it was protected, so it was a surprise to see it come down. Apologies about the quality, took it on my phone…

By some miracle of grace, I think it did. Surprisingly it did not strike me the last day I was in town but I will check later in the week

Kyte!

The following link will take you to a collection of directories for Patrick’s Street running from c. 1800-1980.

http://images.google.ie/imgres?imgurl=http://www.askaboutireland.ie/image_medium%3Fasset_id%3D5145&imgrefurl=http://www.askaboutireland.ie/show_narrative_page.do%3Fpage_id%3D3066&h=264&w=150&sz=26&hl=en&start=1&tbnid=ZFedkwTBupJElM:&tbnh=112&tbnw=64&prev=/images%3Fq%3Dpatrick%2527s%2Bstreet%2Bcork%26ndsp%3D20%26svnum%3D10%26hl%3Den%26lr%3D%26sa%3DN

Facades of 17, 18 Parnell Place are on the RPS

http://www.corkcity.ie/ourservices/planning/developmentplan/pdf/Volume2.pdf

Presume this is a botched demolition job and they will have to reinstate. From what I saw of the Beasly St portion on a sunny bankholiday monday recently, they weren’t being too careful at that end either.

Shame to carefully retain those facades for so long for this to happen.

@d_d_dallas wrote:

Facades of 17, 18 Parnell Place are on the RPS

http://www.corkcity.ie/ourservices/planning/developmentplan/pdf/Volume2.pdf

Presume this is a botched demolition job and they will have to reinstate. From what I saw of the Beasly St portion on a sunny bankholiday monday recently, they weren’t being too careful at that end either.

Shame to carefully retain those facades for so long for this to happen.

If the full buildings were properly protected instead of being allowed to fall apart this would not have happened. Facade protection, in my mind, is the illusion of conservation. What is going to end up there now? Re-builds of preserved facades?

@malec wrote:

And also, now that they’ve starting knocking down these houses, does anyone know what will be built here? I remember seeing a hideous redbrick and blocky proposal for this site, hope that’s not the final version

OCP are about to go to planning for a three storey retail development here with a retail unit at basement level. Design is by Wilson Architects. Number 16 (the central brown building) is to be retained.
Great view of the Crawford extension in this image.

@phatman wrote:

Real pity about the facade, I preseumed it was protected, so it was a surprise to see it come down. Apologies about the quality, took it on my phone…

The tool responsible for this should be beaten to within an inch of his life!! How long have these lasted, only for this to happen?
I’d suggest you contact Navigation House with your com[plaints but, frankly, you’d be just pissing against the wind!

@Radioactiveman wrote:

6. Citi Carpark site (permission granted, waiting for pigs to fly before we get liftoff here, it seems)
!

Is this the one off Grand Parade, if so development is likely to be delayed because as far as I know it’s owned by the Kenny Group which is currently selling its entire portfolio.

@A-ha wrote:

I was thinking the other day about the sale of Roches to Debenhams. I was wondering does anybody know will the supermarkets in Roches that are currently run by SuperValu be affected? Will they carry on as usual or are we to expect them to be taken over by another supermarket. I remember alot of talk a few years ago when Roches wanted to leave the food retailing sector. M&S took over some, SuperValu took over others, but word was that both Sainsburys and Superquinn were in the bid for them. What will happen to the existing stores and when can we expect Roches to close down in Cork?

A lot of people are worried about the Toilet scenario now. Face it, everyone that is in Cork goes for a piss in Roches. Noone uses the Tesco ones on Paul Street cos you have to pay. The public ones next to the Lee are too scary to go in.

So whats going to happen when the Roches ones get closed? Theres gonna be a lot of people wetting themselves.

go for a posh piss next door in BT’s

@Radioactiveman wrote:

There has been a serious breach of planning regulations at a development on College Road.
“Cliffords” shop (well known to generations of students) as well as no.’s 1 and 2 Westbourne, College Road have (over the weekend, surprise, surprise) been reduced to rubble to make way for a new development on the site. Planning permission for such demolition has not been granted.
PP was recently conditionally granted (04/28769) for the demolition of a portion of the existing shop and the dwellings and to construct 4 no. terraced townhouses along Highfield Avenue. With regard to the properties 1 and 2 Westbourne it was intended to convert these into 4 no. apartments.
Permission had previously been refused by CCC and ABP for the development of 8 no. student apartments on 4 floors at 1-3 Westbourne, College Road.
The applications were made by a Ms. Ann Clifford.

The Planning Department at CCC can be contacted as follows, if you feel this merits a complaint:
Telephone: + 353 21 4924321 / 4924324 / 4924325 / 4924720 / 4924722 / 4924723

Fax: + 353 21 4924706

e-mail: planning@corkcity.ie

😡 Good to see the enforcement section of CCC are living up to their usual “high standards”:o
The foundations are poured and blocks are on site.
Has retention been allowed by CCC?, or has it been applied for?

@daniel_7 wrote:

Theres no justification for that, especially when there is numerous new developments lying vacent for this type of use and a need for good retail space in the city centre and they go and do that, cant get over that decision!But back to before the change of use, everyones always saying that theres not enough big premises for the big names in the city centre and this was a good example of a prime unit and was lying vacent for months and still not taking over, can anyone explain this? :

Basically large scale retailers won’t locate in places like Lavitts Quay because the footfall is insufficient. They want to be on Patrick Street. Unfortunately regarding the unit you’re discussing it’s too small for their requirements – you’ve got to remember by the time Mahon Point was completed its units were already too small for most retailers – over the last two to three years most of them have nearly doubled their minimum size requirements. The units in the extension will be significantly larger. Fashion retailers are all stocking larger ranges now and a lot are doing higher margin goods like homewares etc. A lot of them are therefore waiting for Academy Street – as already stated by me deals for the two major units are basically signed and ready to go subject to planning.

@jdivision wrote:

Basically large scale retailers won’t locate in places like Lavitts Quay because the footfall is insufficient. They want to be on Patrick Street. Unfortunately regarding the unit you’re discussing it’s too small for their requirements – you’ve got to remember by the time Mahon Point was completed its units were already too small for most retailers – over the last two to three years most of them have nearly doubled their minimum size requirements. The units in the extension will be significantly larger. Fashion retailers are all stocking larger ranges now and a lot are doing higher margin goods like homewares etc. A lot of them are therefore waiting for Academy Street – as already stated by me deals for the two major units are basically signed and ready to go subject to planning.

😀 Does bigger always mean better for the consumer, or the city? I would not think so.

@jdivision wrote:

Basically large scale retailers won’t locate in places like Lavitts Quay because the footfall is insufficient. They want to be on Patrick Street. Unfortunately regarding the unit you’re discussing it’s too small for their requirements – you’ve got to remember by the time Mahon Point was completed its units were already too small for most retailers – over the last two to three years most of them have nearly doubled their minimum size requirements. The units in the extension will be significantly larger. Fashion retailers are all stocking larger ranges now and a lot are doing higher margin goods like homewares etc. A lot of them are therefore waiting for Academy Street – as already stated by me deals for the two major units are basically signed and ready to go subject to planning.

I understand what your saying but there is still no excuse for units to be lying vacant in lets say mp, surly they should try and get someone to take them over and the unit on pat st was fairly big if you were ever in there, thats why i was saying that it was finally a unit that was big enough for these retailers but yet its being turned into a bank. If planning was granted, what are the plans for the citi car park site and whats the story with the grand parade hotel ? Also, anyone knoe when a decision is due on the libary and sullivans quay?

Harry Crosbie is in discussions with a Cork Developer (OCP) Regarding a 2,500 – 3,000 seater venue in Cork with Mahon being one of the 2 possible sites for the proposed development.

@daniel_7 wrote:

the unit on pat st was fairly big if you were ever in there, thats why i was saying that it was finally a unit that was big enough for these retailers but yet its being turned into a bank.

By Patrick St standards maybe but not by fashion retailers standards. The ideal situation would have been one of them taking the unit and also taking the NIB one with NIB moving somewhere secondary. Re: Frinailla, they should still apply for apartments in the knowledge that it would probably be passed by ABP. Am getting more and more worried by this CSD crowd. í´m based in dublin so don´t know enough about them but as an unelected and unaccountable body they appear to be wielding far too much influence.
Re: Harry Crosbie, that was in The Sunday business post last sunday

Was just reading about the huge plans for both Limerick docklands and the proposed new Galway port. It said Limerick is a 40acre site and Galway has 32acres. Does anyone know what the size of the area up for development in the Cork docklands?

It also said that for Galway the proposal is to make it the “Sysbey Harbour” or Ireland – which would be great for the west of Ireland. Haulbowline island really needs to get a push and used as a landmark for Cork Harbour! 😎

@rebel_city wrote:

Was just reading about the huge plans for both Limerick docklands and the proposed new Galway port. It said Limerick is a 40acre site and Galway has 32acres. Does anyone know what the size of the area up for development in the Cork docklands?

😎

Cork’s Docklands cover an area of 166 hectares of land on both banks of the River Lee, with 4 kilometres of waterfront.

@kite wrote:

Cork’s Docklands cover an area of 166 hectares of land on both banks of the River Lee, with 4 kilometres of waterfront.

Speaking of Docklands any word on Werdna’s application ?

Is the Horgans Quay application any nearer being lodged ?

Doyles Warehouse behing on the Albert Quay /Albert Street and the other smaller warehouses on Albert Quay ?

@jdivision wrote:

By Patrick St standards maybe but not by fashion retailers standards. The ideal situation would have been one of them taking the unit and also taking the NIB one with NIB moving somewhere secondary. Re: Frinailla, they should still apply for apartments in the knowledge that it would probably be passed by ABP. Am getting more and more worried by this CSD crowd. í´m based in dublin so don´t know enough about them but as an unelected and unaccountable body they appear to be wielding far too much influence.
Re: Harry Crosbie, that was in The Sunday business post last sunday

I was actually thinking of the monsoon store across the way because diesal had that aswell for a short while before they took it over but that unit is actually fairly small alright!

Some new pictures:

Boole extension, progressing well:

The jury’s development:

Don’t know what the name of this is but it’s terrible:

The school of music:

City hall extension, it’s actually shaping up to be nicer than I thought it would be, I’ll wait for the finished product to judge:

BTW, what the hell are these yokes they’ve put on top of it? They look extremely cheap and stick out over the top of city hall, anyone know what their purpose is?

Clarion area:

Was it the whole facade that was supposed to be preserved but some idiot hit it by accident? Or was it just the bottom that’s supposed tobe kept?

Suspected arson attack in Co Cork (RTE NEWS ONLINE)
28 August 2006 10:48
Garda

@malec wrote:

Some new pictures:

The jury’s development:

<>

gah… whoever designed that needs lynching.

@Radioactiveman wrote:

This sounds so familiar, a contentious planning application, opposition from local residents, a well known building, lack of any adequate security and a mysterious fire…..lets all ponder that for a minute!!

What was the planning app for ?

@Radioactiveman wrote:

Suspected arson attack in Co Cork (RTE NEWS ONLINE)
28 August 2006 10:48
Gardaí in Co Cork are investigating a suspected arson attack on the former John Barleycorn Hotel in Glanmire.
A fire, which broke out at around 3pm yesterday, completely gutted the hotel. It was the second blaze at the building in a week.
The former hotel was bought earlier in the year by a property developer.
However, locals have complained that since the closure the site has become a magnet for vandals.
-END-

This sounds so familiar, a contentious planning application, opposition from local residents, a well known building, lack of any adequate security and a mysterious fire…..lets all ponder that for a minute!!

:rolleyes: Moving statutes, spontaneous combustion…welcome to Ireland.

Stephen Rodgers reports in today’s Examiner: AN Bord Pleanála is to hold a second oral hearing on a long-running planning application for a 17-storey tower block in Cork City.

Limerick-based developer Werdna’s application to build a 304-apartment complex in nine-storey blocks, a 17-storey tower, a central plaza with retail units and a promenade in Water Street, has been in the planning system since February 2005 and followed a previous application for a 19-storey development in May 2004.

http://www.irishexaminer.com/irishexaminer/pages/story.aspx-qqqg=ireland-qqqm=ireland-qqqa=ireland-qqqid=11922-qqqx=1.asp

@THE_Chris wrote:

gah… whoever designed that needs lynching.

I don’t really have any strong opinion on the Jurys development but I have been doing a lot of trawling of Archiseek since joining up. I’ve decided now that, when anyone – on any thread – posts a subjective response, I’m going to ask why, if only to see if they actually have any design nouse or are just a big gob.

So……why?

🙂 Frinailla’s very attractive proposal for the former Good Shepard site on Blarney Street / Sunday’s Well is due a decision today from CCC. Fingers crossed for a positive outcome.

@wearnicehats wrote:

I don’t really have any strong opinion on the Jurys development but I have been doing a lot of trawling of Archiseek since joining up. I’ve decided now that, when anyone – on any thread – posts a subjective response, I’m going to ask why, if only to see if they actually have any design nouse or are just a big gob.

So……why?

It looks to me like a tower block on its side. Jurys has to the the most boring, unoriginal design that I have seen in Cork so far. Aside from that, it just plain looks bad.

@THE_Chris wrote:

It looks to me like a tower block on its side. Jurys has to the the most boring, unoriginal design that I have seen in Cork so far. Aside from that, it just plain looks bad.

😮 I agree with you, and others THE_Chris….but Jury’s could be worse!!, like this]http://www.peoplesrepublicofcork.com/modules.php?op=modload&name=News&file=article&sid=519&mode=thread&order=0&thold=0:mad:[/url]

😎 The Bishop of Cork, Dr.John Buckley, has appointed Michael O’Flynn, MD of O’Flynn Construction to advise on what would be the best use to put the lands of Farranferris Collage.

@THE_Chris wrote:

It looks to me like a tower block on its side. Jurys has to the the most boring, unoriginal design that I have seen in Cork so far. Aside from that, it just plain looks bad.

Wow, Hugh Pearman must be shaking in his boots.

The photos of it aren’t that great but the one of the glazed corner looks interesting – I assume that that is the lift core? A hotel by definition is repetitive so the bedrooms will always be so. It’s hard to see but are the windows of the bedrooms projected? I know it’s not brick because I was dealing with Techrete on another job. This leaves you with the public areas and the circulation areas to express which they seem to have done. I remember doing some work for Jurys a few years back and, believe me, they don’t splash much cash. It looks like it would have benfitted from a set back top floor – planning issue? Anyway, I haven’t seen the hotel the flesh and I can’t form any opinion based on fuzzy photos but I’m going to be in Cork next month so i’ll be able to take a more informed view then.

Anyone know what has become of Lexington? Has he been posting his news updates on another forum as he did during his last absence from Archiseek?

@corkdood wrote:

Anyone know what has become of Lexington? Has he been posting his news updates on another forum as he did during his last absence from Archiseek?

:confused: Lex has not been posting on the other forum.
😎 Frinailla received permission today on the Good Sheperd site with conditions.

@wearnicehats wrote:

Wow, Hugh Pearman must be shaking in his boots.

The photos of it aren’t that great but the one of the glazed corner looks interesting – I assume that that is the lift core? A hotel by definition is repetitive so the bedrooms will always be so. It’s hard to see but are the windows of the bedrooms projected? I know it’s not brick because I was dealing with Techrete on another job. This leaves you with the public areas and the circulation areas to express which they seem to have done. I remember doing some work for Jurys a few years back and, believe me, they don’t splash much cash. It looks like it would have benfitted from a set back top floor – planning issue? Anyway, I haven’t seen the hotel the flesh and I can’t form any opinion based on fuzzy photos but I’m going to be in Cork next month so i’ll be able to take a more informed view then.

The Jury’s redevelopment is very much a 21st century version of what it replaces. Cheap cheap cheap. Only this time on a larger more repetitious scale. Given the layout of the site, this has a damaging impact on most of Lancaster Qy. Incidentally Jurys are not the developers, it is OCP who are to blame for not splashing much cash at this.

……

@d_d_dallas wrote:

The Jury’s redevelopment is very much a 21st century version of what it replaces. Cheap cheap cheap. Only this time on a larger more repetitious scale. Given the layout of the site, this has a damaging impact on most of Lancaster Qy. Incidentally Jurys are not the developers, it is OCP who are to blame for not splashing much cash at this.

😡 The blame for this joke is with the “professional” planners of Cork City Council.
You cannot blame OCP for asking for maximum profits, but CCC to sell the city short is unforgivable:o

Frinailla Ltd. have been granted permission for their redevelopment of the former Good Shepherd convent in Sunday’s Well.
The proposed development provides for the conservation of the original Home, Convent and Orphanage buildings and their conversion to 26 no apartments, including 7 no. 3 bedroom apartments and 19 no. 2 bedroom apartments. The proposed development also makes provision for the conservation and conversion of the existing Gate Lodge to a 2 bedroom dwelling. The proposed development includes the construction of 10 no. apartment buildings which range in height from 3 to 8 storeys and consist of 237 no. residential units including 37 no. 1 bedroom apartments, 165 no. 2 bedroom apartments and 35 no. 3 bedroom apartments. The proposed development also provides for 10 no. 3 storey, 4 bedroom townhouses. Parking for the development will be primarily provided in a 3 level basement car park.

A large number of conditions have been laid down, including:
Reduction in height of some apartment buildings.
A conservation programme to be established for the historical elements of the site.
All sash windows to be refurbished, with any new windows being justified.
Extensive conservation throughout the historic buildings.
Reduction in parking spaces.

@corkdood wrote:

Anyone know what has become of Lexington? Has he been posting his news updates on another forum as he did during his last absence from Archiseek?

he last logged in last week – he has pretty regularly – obv has nothing to say

Just noticed in the Sunday Business Post today that the latest big idea from Estate Agents is that parents should buy property for any of their kids going to college. They suggest that place in Blackrock/Mahon called Eden as being perfect for this in fact! Not exactly convenient to UCC/CIT though. I assume things aren’t going as well for sales there as expected if they’re resorting to this approach?

@opus wrote:

Just noticed in the Sunday Business Post today that the latest big idea from Estate Agents is that parents should buy property for any of their kids going to college. They suggest that place in Blackrock/Mahon called Eden as being perfect for this in fact! Not exactly convenient to UCC/CIT though. I assume things aren’t going as well for sales there as expected if they’re resorting to this approach?

:rolleyes: Was wondering what was going on in the “garden’ of Eden?
The affordable side of this development seems to be delayed (deferred) to the future as well.
How could this development compete with the Section 50 (tax free) scams in the vicinity of the UCC mafia?

Perhaps they got mixed up with Eden Hall Student Apartments on the Model Farm Road?

@Dieter wrote:

Perhaps they got mixed up with Eden Hall Student Apartments on the Model Farm Road?

You are right Dieter, that is most likely what happened.

I read over the weekend that Michael O’Flynn of O’Flynn Construction has been asked by the Bishop of Cork to come up with proposals for the future use of Farranferris school and grounds. According to the article i read any development work will not be carried out by O’Flynn Construction.

I wonder what will become of the place. There was talk at one time of a third level campus for the northside of the city but I wonder if thats really needed these days with falling class sizes etc.
I suppose apartments are a likely outcome.

@opus wrote:

Just noticed in the Sunday Business Post today that the latest big idea from Estate Agents is that parents should buy property for any of their kids going to college. They suggest that place in Blackrock/Mahon called Eden as being perfect for this in fact! Not exactly convenient to UCC/CIT though. I assume things aren’t going as well for sales there as expected if they’re resorting to this approach?

Sales are up more than any other newspaper in Ireland and readership increase is even higher. It was probably that that was the only potential scheme sent in by the agents contacted. The number 10 from Skehard Road does stop nearly outside UCC

I noticed that Tesco Paul Street seem to be relocating some of its stock, freeing up the off-license section at the western side of the store. Presumably refurbishment is about to commence. Will we see a virtual or real linkup being made with the St.Paul’s Church ediface of the Cornmarket Centre which is just across the lane from this section of the Paul Street Shopping Centre/Tesco store? Both shopping centre’s are owned by OCP.

Any info?

@jdivision wrote:

Sales are up more than any other newspaper in Ireland and readership increase is even higher. It was probably that that was the only potential scheme sent in by the agents contacted. The number 10 from Skehard Road does stop nearly outside UCC

fair play to the estate agents trying to make a quick few bob, obviously appealing to those parents that are partiularly wealthy with loads of money given the prices that are being asked in eden.

@Pug wrote:

fair play to the estate agents trying to make a quick few bob, obviously appealing to those parents that are partiularly wealthy with loads of money given the prices that are being asked in eden.

😮 I got the shock of my life when they came out. Had thought about maybe buying at home but that ended that.

😎 Now that the CSPCA applied to Cork City Council to build an Animals Home of 640 square metres and Boarding Kennels of 210 square metres in Mahon what is to become of their site on Clontraf Street?
This site and those adjoining will be a great addition to the high value development of the city if developed sensibly.

@kite wrote:

😎 Now that the CSPCA applied to Cork City Council to build an Animals Home of 640 square metres and Boarding Kennels of 210 square metres in Mahon what is to become of their site on Clontraf Street?
This site and those adjoining will be a great addition to the high value development of the city if developed sensibly.

OCP owns the site, will be used as part of a larger office scheme

OCP dont own the Cornmarket St Development – the O Donoghue Ring family own it.

I’d say OCP have plans to acquire the dogs home site as they have bought the Reliance bearing site last year.

Some recent photos of that Beasley Street development….site demoltion was ongoing and the lads were busy knocking down these two facades…I particularly liked the window detail on one of the buildings.
Not sure if all the facades were removed however as I left Cork the day after I took the photos. Am sure Lex posted images earlier in this thread of the proposed boutique hotel that will be going up in its place.

@lisam wrote:

OCP dont own the Cornmarket St Development – the O Donoghue Ring family own it.

I’d say OCP have plans to acquire the dogs home site as they have bought the Reliance bearing site last year.

O’Callaghan targets CSPCA building near Cork bus station
Sunday, March 26, 2006 – By Neil Callanan
Cork developer Owen O’Callaghan is in talks to acquire the Cork Society for the Prevention of Cruelty to Animals building on Clontarf Street in Cork. O’Callaghan confirmed last week that he is trying to buy the building as part of a site assembly of properties in the area with the intention of developing a 9,290 square metre plus office block.

The first part of the acquisition involved the purchase of the Reliance Bearings site on Anderson’s Quay and O’Callaghan is also in talks to acquire two other properties there.

The site is at the edge of the city’s docklands area, which is set for a major regeneration, and is opposite the bus station.

It is also close to the Merchant’s Quay shopping centre, which was developed by O’Callaghan. ‘‘We have a site where we could relocate the animals’ home subject to us coming to an agreement to acquire the site,” O’Callaghan said.

Thanks for deleting my post. People might have seen it and become hopelessly confused….and then where would be? sigh:confused:

Radioactiveman, I think it was moved to another thread.

https://archiseek.com/content/showthread.php?p=56300#post56300

@corcaighboy wrote:

Some recent photos of that Beasley Street development….site demoltion was ongoing and the lads were busy knocking down these two facades…I particularly liked the window detail on one of the buildings.
Not sure if all the facades were removed however as I left Cork the day after I took the photos. Am sure Lex posted images earlier in this thread of the proposed boutique hotel that will be going up in its place.

It’s a real shame the way they’ve been “allowed” to crumble. It’s a waste of time having a Protected Structure policy if developers let them fall to the ground without recrimination.

@who_me wrote:

It’s a real shame the way they’ve been “allowed” to crumble. It’s a waste of time having a Protected Structure policy if developers let them fall to the ground without recrimination.

😡 …or knock them down over a weekend, remember the Church / Sullivans Quay?
This practice seems to be CCC policy as there is cash in development levies, not in protecting what we have as a stand alone city .The entire city will end up like a “samey samey” copy of some UK high street thanks to Mr.Gavin & Co. 😮

AIB Bank in Blackpool are to close their existing branch on Watercourse Road and move the business to the new Blackpool Retail Park.
The Branch on Watercourse Road was the subject of a planning application more than a year ago when the bank wanted to demolish the existing building and build a modern replacement. THis application was approved by CCC, only to be appealled by local TD Kathleen Lynch. This appeal was subsequently upheld by An Bord Pleanala.
The news of AIB’s relocation has not yet been made public and will no doubt worry locals who already see Blackpool Retail Park/Shopping centre draining the older, more established districts of shops and services.

Not too sure A-Ha. I heard almost a year ago that BOS had done a deal to buy the ESB retail shops around the country but obviously that didn’t go ahead.

@corkdood wrote:

Not too sure A-Ha. I heard almost a year ago that BOS had done a deal to buy the ESB retail shops around the country but obviously that didn’t go ahead.

Are you saying that no ESB shop in the country has been converted over to a BOSI branch??

I can’t speak for the whole country but I know the former ESB shops in Cork City and Ballincollig are still vacant and BOS have moved into a new new in the main street in Ballincollig.

@corkdood wrote:

I can’t speak for the whole country but I know the former ESB shops in Cork City and Ballincollig are still vacant and BOS have moved into a new new in the main street in Ballincollig.

Planning has to be sought for change of use which has delayed things a bit. The deal happened alright. Not all the shops are suitable for bank branches though so those ones will be flipped on.

Does anybody have any information on the new architecture degree course in UCC. How many lectures are in CIT for example.

OCP own the old ESB shop in Academy St, it will be part of their new retail and residential development which is at the planning stage at the moment

😮 Concerns were rightly raised at a recent meeting by Cork City Councillors regarding foot dragging by some stakeholders on the proposed city docklands development.
Issues raised included the passing of five years without serious planning applications being lodged, and the prospect of another five years or so before the first stakeholders blink and take what is on offer money wise rather than wait to see if a few more euro can be extracted.(CCC’s lack of a determined blueprint for the area may have a lot to do with this deadlock ?)

CIE, and the Port of Cork were mentioned at this meeting, POC member Cllr.Colm Burke raised the issue of POC needing 150 million to relocate to the lower harbor (up from 110 million from when the POC made a submission to CCC some months ago), meanwhile the POC listed building on Custom House Quay is at the point of collapse.
It may be worth more as a site than to restore / redevelop this historic Cork building?

City Manager, Joe Gavin stated that out of the 8 major stakeholders involved in the docklands, 3 had reached the point of appointing architects and engineers to put forward proposals. BUT some Councillors said that this may be too little too late if Haulbowline Island gets the nod for an IFSC centre as proposed, which would probably make the docklands the biggest white elephant and waste of money in the states history!!
😮

DAT partnership have been given permission by CCC for their development of the triangualr site near the bus station, bounded by Clontarf Street, Lower Oliver Plunkett Street and Dean Street.
Originally planned as a 9-storey, modern design, the building will be reduced to 7 storey by condition. An Taisce have submitted an obsevation, and it is unknown as to whether the decision will be appealled to ABP.

🙁 After following the great “Dublin historic paving disbelief” thread, I feel it is sad that the historic paving in Cork is suffering a similar fate, replacing the paving outside Cork City Hall with Patrick Street leftovers instead of affecting a proper repair to what was there is sad.

@kite wrote:

🙁 After following the great “Dublin historic paving disbelief” thread, I feel it is sad that the historic paving in Cork is suffering a similar fate, replacing the paving outside Cork City Hall with Patrick Street leftovers instead of affecting a proper repair to what was there is sad.

Kite – Have been following that threat as well and it is shocking to see what they are doing re the old paving in Dublin. Alas, Cork does not have much good quality paving at all, and what little granite paving we do have has been left to fall into disrepair. Having said that, although the Patrict’s street paving is not to everyone’s taste, I quite like it. Hopefully, it will be maintained and not be ruined by a combination of black chewing gum marks, or wilful destruction by the utility companies. Re the City Hall paving, here is a shot I took of the new paving they were laying in August. Is this granite quarried locally or is it what the Dublin thread was referring to as Chinese White Granite?

Corkdood – BoSI have converted some of the Dublin ESB shops to bank branches, e.g. there is one in Dun Laoghaire and I think Stillorgan also.

Some pictures I took over the weekend of the Beasley Street and City Square developments. City Square is the regeneration/redevelopment project down in blackpool.

The final picture is of the Jacob’s Mill roof. Not only is it completely out of preportion with respect to the surrounding buildings, it also seems to be made from a type of corrugated sheeting. The stuff normally associated with agricultural outbuildings and light industrial units. It’s amazing how the developer got away with this. Corrugated neck, I guess.

@ISI wrote:

The final picture is of the Jacob’s Mill roof. Not only is it completely out of preportion with respect to the surrounding buildings, it also seems to be made from a type of corrugated sheeting. The stuff normally associated with agricultural outbuildings and light industrial units. It’s amazing how the developer got away with this. Corrugated neck, I guess.

😮 Do CCC have ANY planning enforcement officers,or do development fees rule planning in Cork?
Whoever signed the permission on this development should be fired without a pension and imprisoned. Fu*^ing mafia running the city!!:mad:

Fire this morning in the R&H Hall building. Nobody hurt I don’t think..

Was this building down to be knocked as part of the development of the docklands? It’s a bit of an eyesore…

X B

I think that high buildings were going to be allowed in this area anyway but another fire on a future development site in Cork ?Sundays Well,Crows Nest site and now this ?

@X Boil wrote:

Fire this morning in the R&H Hall building. Nobody hurt I don’t think..

Was this building down to be knocked as part of the development of the docklands? It’s a bit of an eyesore…
X B

Could somebody please explain to me what this event has to do with Developments in Cork (the title of the thread)? It would appear to me that it is quite the opposite of development (unless you take the PDA 2000 definition of ‘development’ as including demolition- but that’s stretching that definition a bit). Wouldn’t it belong more properly in the Cork Docklands thread?

@ctesiphon wrote:

Could somebody please explain to me what this event has to do with Developments in Cork (the title of the thread)? It would appear to me that it is quite the opposite of development (unless you take the PDA 2000 definition of ‘development’ as including demolition- but that’s stretching that definition a bit). Wouldn’t it belong more properly in the Cork Docklands thread?

What do you care ?
Since the “Developments in Cork” thread was split up anyway this place has gone to pot.
BTW it is a development in the Docklands area which is a massive future development projects.

Does anyone have any information about the proposed development at Ardmanning House in Togher (i.e. what would go in there retail/apartments/a new bar etc.). Also, who are the architects and are there any images available?

@Spinal Tap wrote:

What do you care ?
Since the “Developments in Cork” thread was split up anyway this place has gone to pot.
BTW it is a development in the Docklands area which is a massive future development projects.

I think it is fair to say that this thread is very difficult to follow. It seems to jump all over the place with people disccusing retail most of the time. Interesting issues (such as those recently highlighted about paving) get buried in the back pages before anyone gets a chance to discuss them properly. Then when they are raised again it is hard to follow the origins of the discussion.

@ctesiphon wrote:

Could somebody please explain to me what this event has to do with Developments in Cork (the title of the thread)? It would appear to me that it is quite the opposite of development (unless you take the PDA 2000 definition of ‘development’ as including demolition- but that’s stretching that definition a bit). Wouldn’t it belong more properly in the Cork Docklands thread?

1. It’s a significant event in the city which will have an effect on the timeframe in which we can hope to see serious development in the south docks.
2. These buildings are the skyline of the inner harbour and today’s fire will presumably lead to their loss. Now whether that is a good thing or a bad thing is debatable but it is development related nonetheless.
3. The image itself gives a good view of the south docks/kent station site and shows why the Manor Park Homes development urgently needs to get off the ground.
4. Finally, corkdood thought it was something interesting and went out of his way to make a positive contribution to the thread. Fair play to him.

Who are you ctesiphon? The thread police?

@phil wrote:

I think it is fair to say that this thread is very difficult to follow. It seems to jump all over the place with people disccusing retail most of the time. Interesting issues (such as those recently highlighted about paving) get buried in the back pages before anyone gets a chance to discuss them properly. Then when they are raised again it is hard to follow the origins of the discussion.

No more so than the O’Connell Street thread which has discussed the Liffey boardwalk and the College Green area in extensive detail. It’s also nearly 10 times bigger than this one. On the foot of somebody who wasn’t a regular poster and perhaps reader of the thread — might even have been you?? — complaining about the previous Cork thread, it was locked. Posts like yours are likely to do it again. Regular readers had no problem following that discussion and enjoyed it – it’s no coincidence that the number of posts has fallen since then and the best and most regular poster has stopped posting entirely. New threads were brought in, the majority of which died a death. Search this thread to find info you’re interested in – It’s pure laziness to say it’s too difficult to follow.

@jdivision wrote:

No more so than the O’Connell Street thread which has discussed the Liffey boardwalk and the College Green area in extensive detail. It’s also nearly 10 times bigger than this one. On the foot of somebody who wasn’t a regular poster and perhaps reader of the thread — might even have been you?? — complaining about the previous Cork thread, it was locked. Posts like yours are likely to do it again. Regular readers had no problem following that discussion and enjoyed it – it’s no coincidence that the number of posts has fallen since then and the best and most regular poster has stopped posting entirely. New threads were brought in, the majority of which died a death. Search this thread to find info you’re interested in – It’s pure laziness to say it’s too difficult to follow.

I have no issue with the size of threads. At times the O’Connell Street thread has gone slightly off topic, but in general has been used to discuss the issue at hand. I also have no real difficulty with threads that are used as a means to discuss general issues about a city if there is no point in opening a new one. The original of this thread was closed after I made a comment regarding it. I am not entirely sure if was related or not, but it probably was (Incidently, I dont see why the fact that I dont regularly post on this thread is an issue in this regard either. In fact there is no thread that I would consider myself a regular poster to). I stand by it as the latest incarnation of it has actually been better in that at least transport (for example) now has its own devoted thread. I siimply feel that certain issues raised here could have their own thread instead of jumping all over the place. It is not out of laziness that I say this. It is just out of frustration of opening it to see what is meant to be a discussion ending up being a series of mainly disjointed comments. If you are in to that, so be it. But I simply felt it should be questioned.

@phil wrote:

I stand by it as the latest incarnation of it has actually been better in that at least transport (for example) now has its own devoted thread. .

That had already been proposed by Thomond Park, who had volunteered to do it, on the prevous Cork thread prior to it being locked. he just hadn’t had time before it was locked.

The nature of the discussion on this thread is somewhat disjointed if you are not reading the thread regularly, people post new info, others respond to previous points. However, that’s the nature the three main development in Cork threads have taken and that’s helped make them so popular. New info goes up, people return to old points etc.

Ironically I would argue the paving element shouldn’t have appeared in this thread at all. It has little revelance to Developments in Cork.

@jdivision wrote:

Ironically I would argue the paving element shouldn’t have appeared in this thread at all. It has little revelance to Developments in Cork.

That is the exact point. There are also a few other topics that are raised that would be better served by their own threads. I am not trying to have a go at it on the whole, but it just seems that important issues can get buried in it. I see why it is this way in that it has been since the start of the ‘Look at the State of Cork’ thread a few years back, and it therefore seems like the logical place to raise an issue, when in many cases, if given the chance, it could become the subject of its own thread. The Cork Docklands thread is an example of this in that I am sure as future developments take place there it will be used more.

Hopefully this’ll get the thread back on track 🙂

I’ve taken a few more pics of the juries development, that glass part on the front is starting to look pretty good I think.

BTW, will these buildings have maybe restaurants, etc at the ground floor? It doesn’t look like there’ll be any extra entrances apart from the main ones so most likely the area around the buildings will feel dead, unlike what’s shown in this image:

Anyone know what’s going on with this development? I remember hearing that the choice was between this and another design and that this got chosen. Is it still going ahead? Pity if it isn’t since this definitely was one of my favourites.

Also can anyone tell me where this one will be? I can’t remember, one of the nicer ones aswell I think.

@malec wrote:

Also can anyone tell me where this one will be? I can’t remember, one of the nicer ones aswell I think.

That is Frinailla’s Blackpool / Watercourse Rd development, not surprising you cant remember, most of Frinailla’s designs look like they were drawn on a beer mat:o …:cool: The Good Shepard, Sundays Well being the exception

Oh right, I think I know which one it is now. I think this might be the one that I saw the other day, it was up 1 floor I think, will try to take some pics next time. Looks better than juries IMO.

Lane Homes have applied to Cork City Council to demolish the former Lovett’s Restaurant in Douglas and propose to construct 10 one bed, 23 two bed apartments over 2, 3, and 4 storeys.

@kite wrote:

Lane Homes have applied to Cork City Council to demolish the former Lovett’s Restaurant in Douglas and propose to construct 10 one bed, 23 two bed apartments over 2, 3, and 4 storeys.

Is this Lovett’s on the Well Rd? Firstly I never heard it was closing and secondly, as it is an old (18th Century?) country house I’d be amazed if it was being knocked…..

@kite wrote:

That is Frinailla’s Blackpool / Watercourse Rd development,

With AIB blackpool closing down, what are the chances of Frinailla taking it in as part of their watercourse rd development? Would be hilarious if after all Kathleen Lynchs objections to their site, that they bought the AIB site which moved because they were refused planning on an objection put in by……..Kathleen Lynch.

New Park N Ride facility going in at the Dunkettle Roundabout in the North East corner on the land between the roundabout and the Ibis hotel. I don’t go that way in the morning but I thought it was fairly choked with traffic already. Presume they will have some sort of system so the cars queueing to get in wont block everyone else.

@Pug wrote:

With AIB blackpool closing down, what are the chances of Frinailla taking it in as part of their watercourse rd development? Would be hilarious if after all Kathleen Lynchs objections to their site, that they bought the AIB site which moved because they were refused planning on an objection put in by……..Kathleen Lynch.

No, I think AIB have their heart set on a move to the retail park in Blackpool. Unfortunately banks don’t really want to deal with the general public anymore, so they figure the closer they get to their business clients and the further they get away from real people the better 🙂 but that’s another day’s argument!

So, what with this fire at R&H Hall (delibrately started according to some reports), will we see the development of this area move forward at a quicker pace, or not? I know CCC had been in negotiations with all landowners in the docklands. I think it was on here that I heard that at one time, CCC had planned to move the City Archives (now located in Blackpool) to a new site, close to these silo’s. Now that would have been some progress!

I’ve mentioned this before, but we really need a full on Cork Docklands Authority to oversee this whole development and actually get it moving. I know CCC have set up a docklands directorate, and that’s a start, but we need to see national involvement and that of high profile business leaders and developers.
Perhaps some clever politician will set something up before the upcoming election. Could be a real votewinner for Cork!

Didn’t the city archives only move from South Main St to Blackppol recently?

@Pug wrote:

New Park N Ride facility going in at the Dunkettle Roundabout in the North East corner on the land between the roundabout and the Ibis hotel. I don’t go that way in the morning but I thought it was fairly choked with traffic already. Presume they will have some sort of system so the cars queueing to get in wont block everyone else.

Pug – I was under the impression that the park n ride was going in at North Esk (next to or on part of the railway owned land at their container terminal).
The attached aerial picture gives an idea of the area concerned, and a busy spot it is too given that you have the entrance to the tunnel, the intersection of the busy Dublin and Waterford roads, and the Cobh & Midleton railway.

Furthermore, Little Island industrial estate lies just to the east. To the north western corner, there are plans for several hundred houses in the grounds of Dunkatle House (not too sure what the status of that planning app is presently). If anyone is up to it, feel free to highlight the particular areas by highlighting the various elements in the photo.
Incidentally, I have several more aerial photos of Cork Harbour and given the recent debate about this thread, I am not too sure whether to post them in this thread, the transport thread, or the Cork Harbour thread! The photos cover all aspects and thus would most likely be relevant to all of the above although they would probably be best grouped together IMO. Suggestions on a postcard please before I commit any cardinal sins and breach posting etiquette;)

@browser wrote:

Is this Lovett’s on the Well Rd? Firstly I never heard it was closing and secondly, as it is an old (18th Century?) country house I’d be amazed if it was being knocked…..

Tis indeed I think it came up for sale about two or three months ago.

Correct me if I am wrong, but I believe the park and ride is going here::

@Radioactiveman wrote:

Correct me if I am wrong, but I believe the park and ride is going here::

I had understood it to be on the site of the North Esk freight sidings, which is just to the east (right) of the picture.

Todays examiner has it earmarked as the location of the Old Dunkettle Railway station, as hilighted in the above photo.

Idiots. Absolute, complete, idiots.

1) Putting a P&R facility at the main intersection between the N8 and N25. The traffic is bad there already. With this, the P&R, the 700 houses to be built on the green space in the left of the picture, the NORTH RING ROAD and we have a disaster waiting to happen.

2) Long term plans to freeflow that roundabout. How the hell are they going to put slips in with a dirty great facility there?

I really wonder sometimes what these people are smoking.

A far better thing would be to buy part of the car storage plant near the Glanmire roundabout. Traffic not so bad, its not built at a bloody BOTTLENECK and the carpark facility is almost there already. Solving the railway line crossing wouldnt be too bad either.

Some idiots in the planning office though, jeez.

@THE_Chris wrote:

Idiots. Absolute, complete, idiots.

1) Putting a P&R facility at the main intersection between the N8 and N25. The traffic is bad there already. With this, the P&R, the 700 houses to be built on the green space in the left of the picture, the NORTH RING ROAD and we have a disaster waiting to happen.

2) Long term plans to freeflow that roundabout. How the hell are they going to put slips in with a dirty great facility there?

I really wonder sometimes what these people are smoking.

A far better thing would be to buy part of the car storage plant near the Glanmire roundabout. Traffic not so bad, its not built at a bloody BOTTLENECK and the carpark facility is almost there already. Solving the railway line crossing wouldnt be too bad either.

Some idiots in the planning office though, jeez.

I agree with your views on this P&R The_Chris.
Who owns the land for the P&R?

@THE_Chris wrote:

Idiots. Absolute, complete, idiots.

1) Putting a P&R facility at the main intersection between the N8 and N25. The traffic is bad there already. With this, the P&R, the 700 houses to be built on the green space in the left of the picture, the NORTH RING ROAD and we have a disaster waiting to happen.

what will really wreck your head is that it took them ages to come up with the plan and “years of lobbying” to put it there as per the examiner

They originally considered that area you were talking about where the cars are stored but decided against it. Thats a smashing idea about taking over the already existing spot where all the cars are stored already but i would imagine that whoever owns that would be looking for serious market values on it. Here is the piece from the examiner

Location of park-and-ride facility to be changed

Iarnr

The other two options were SO MUCH BETTER. What the hell were they thinking.

Money MUST have changed hands here, what a dumb decision.

@Pug wrote:

He said it would be of great benefit to workers from Glanmire, one of Cork’s biggest suburbs. “There will be a half-hourly peak-time service from the Dunkettle station which will mean that people from Glanmire will be able to use the park-and-ride and take the train to either Cork City, Carrigtwohill, Cobh or Midleton, where a lot of them work already. It will take a lot of people off the roads,” Cllr Gilroy said.

No it wont, those people will clog up the roads DRIVING TO THE PARK AND RIDE.

Any other country would have, say a free bus going from Glanmire to the P&R. Not here, you’ll have to drive to the bloody thing.

ah fair play to glanmire, they have their councillors doing something.

Now all they need is a park and ride for ballincollig,ovens and bishopstown and another for Carrigaline,Crosshaven and Douglas and another for Mayfield, Blackpool and Ballyvolane(having just stopped the one in Tinkers Cross quite rightly due to idiotic location).

@malec wrote:

Hopefully this’ll get the thread back on track 🙂

I’ve taken a few more pics of the juries development, that glass part on the front is starting to look pretty good I think.

[IMG]

I was in Cork 2 days ago and I had the chance to get a good look at this as I was walking to UCC. I think it looks very well – the glass lift shaft defines the corner and what I didn’t realise is that the vertical glazing to the bedrooms is actually set in a bay window format so the facade is much more modelled than I had previously thought from the photos. I managed to grab a yellow coat who was working on the new bridge (dodgy stone by the way). Apparently the protruding piece at ground floor on the photo is the bar and the large glazed area to the end (opposite an abandoned petrol station) in the restaurant. Both the bar and the restaurant open out onto a terrace area that wraps around the front and side on the river bank which, judging from the angle of the sun when I was there, will be nice in the summer evenings. You wouldn’t miss the entrance canopy either!

Here is an interesting letter from today’s olim Cork Examiner:

22 September 2006

Airport well below best international standards

CORK airport marketing manager Kevin Cullinane (Irish Examiner letters, September 18) says their aim is to deliver a “quality travel experience” to best international standards.

Is he serious?

He tells us the new airport terminal is three times bigger than the old one. So what? The old one had a viewing area — the new one does not. But it does have overpriced bars and cafés — and passengers still get wet boarding flights.

Mr Cullinane says passengers have benefited. How?

There is no parallel taxiway and landing aids have not been improved. Cork must be the only airport in the world that employs a diverter — are we not diverting enough already?

Cork Airport Authority will have to improve its performance. Hardly a week goes by when we don’t hear of an airline pulling out or reducing services.

The board should stop admiring their new building and start talking to the airlines while we still have them.

There’s a lot to do if Cork is to come anywhere near the best in Ireland, never mind the world.

Francis O’Mahony
Callas
Berrings
Co Cork

Click here for irishexaminer.com stories before this date

The new Terminal at Cork Airport is lovely to look at and inside, it’s large and relatively well laid out. Certainly it could do with more (working) air bridges, but we’ve got to realise that the airlines themselves are the ones which won’t use them!

The main problem I see with the airport at the moment is that for all its new finery, it is still staffed by people who are at best, work shy!
What’s the point in having a huge bank of check in desks if there’s only one person to check in a flight. Queues are the inevitable result.
What’s the point in having four new baggage reclaim carosels if you’ve got one guy to unload the plane and transport them to the terminal and laod them on the carosel. It doesn’t help that yer man thinks he’s in some sort of slow bicycle race either.

Forget about a new terminal, just get new (and more) staff.

nice building I’ll say..but the arrival area is way to small for what would want to be an international airport. It doesn’t allow the casual tourist to accommodate with the Irish / Cork “like” environment. The transition is impulsive and abrupt. That would be my only comment.
I am not sure but did they build any new runaways?

🙂 Cork City Manager declares Cork 2005 a huge sucess.
Cork City Manager reported to Council members tonight on the 2005 year of Culture

Re: European Capital of Culture 2005
Economic Assessment

We commissioned Dr. Moloney of University College Cork to carry out an economic assessment of the contribution of tourism and conference business to Cork City and its hinterland in respect of the years 2003, 2005 and 2006.
The report for 2003 was published in 2004 and gave a baseline against which we can measure the economic success of ‘Cork 2005

Visitor Numbers:
The preliminary figures for 2005 are now to hand. They indicate that visitor numbers in 2005 were 1,137,000 higher than in 2003. In 2003 the total of all visitors including overseas and domestic amounted to 3,006,000. This number had increased to 4,243,000 for the year 2005 which represents an increase of 38%

Revenue Generated:
The direct financial contribution from visitors in 2003 was €324m. In 2005 this amounted to €414m an increase of €90m representing a 28% increase.
Within these overall figures the report indicates that same day visitors in 2003 numbered 2,574,000 and generated €122m. In 2005 tnere were 3,751,000 same day visitors generating €158m.

National Comparison:
On the national level total visitor numbers in 2005 including domestic trips were 7% higher than in 2003. Revenue earnings in 2005 were 7.5% higher than in 2003.
The respective figures for Cork City and its hinterland at 38% and 28% greatly exceed the national figures and can for the most part be attributed to the successful promotion of Cork 2005.
It is clear from the returns that ‘Cork 2005’ was an outstanding economic success and greatly exceeded what we might have reasonably expected. Our total revenue investment in Cork 2005 was €17m. The extra €90m earned in 2005 was the immediate economic return but ‘Cork 2005’ has laid foundations for continuing benefits into the future. We must build on these foundations. We now have a physically more attractive centre city with the renewal of St. Patrick Street, Oliver Plunkett Street and Grand Parade. We have added to our cultural infrastructure with the provision of the new Glucksman Gallery, the extension to the Cork Museum, the Lifetime Lab, the new Civic Archives, the Astronomy Centre at Blackrock Castle and the new School of Music. Several new hotels have been built and plans are well advanced for a major increase in the volume and range of retail provision in the city.
Many of the cultural initiatives started in 2005 are continuing – the Frank O’Connor Short Story Prize, the Ceili Mor, the Ocean to City boat race, the Lee Swim and Opera 2005.

A marketing partnership has been established to promote tourism and conference business and plans for a large indoor events centre are being actively pursued. A physically attractive city, good cultural infrastructure, good retail provision and good access are essential ingredients for the development of urban tourism.

I would like to thank the members and staff of Cork City Council, the Board and staff of Cork 2005, the Arts Community, the Business Community and the Department of Arts, Sport and Tourism for their imput in making Cork 2005 such a great success.

A report has been commissioned on the impact of Cork 2005 on art and culture in the city from Dr. Benadette Quinn of Dublin Institute of Technology. This report and the full economic report from Dr. Moloney will be available by November.

J. GAVIN CITY MANAGER 25th September 2006

😮 ABP have deferred a decision on Barry O’Connor’s Crows Nest redevelopment until January 2007.

And take a look at this from this morning’s Irish Independent:

Council to unravel knitted-map saga

A KNITTED map of Cork, which cost a staggering €259,000 to produce for the city’s Capital of Culture year, may have to be sold to avoid running up massive storage bills.

Cork City Council is to hold a special debate on the 2005 EU Capital of Culture programme, which included the commissioning of the knitted map, a project slated by some as a breathtaking waste of money.

The map is currently in storage.

While the overall programme has been hailed as a tremendous success by city manager Joe Gavin, having generated tourism revenues of more than €90m, there is increasing controversy about the knitted map.

Even the whereabouts of the map is the focus of controversy, with councillors demanding to know precisely where it is stored and how much it is costing.

The project – which was criticised even before the Cork 2005 programme commenced – emerged as one of the single most expensive items during the EU Capital of Culture celebration.

Three years ago, when the knitted map venture was first unveiled amid fanfare by Cork 2005 officials, some presumed the proposal was only a hoax.

But it proceeded to the funding stage. However, the knitted map, which was finally produced, was so large that it was regarded as unsuitable for display in any major public venue.

Privately, sources within the council have admitted that any approach to sell the map would be greeted “with relief”.

We are now well after 1 April!!!

@Praxiteles wrote:

And take a look at this from this morning’s Irish Independent:

Council to unravel knitted-map saga

A KNITTED map of Cork, which cost a staggering €259,000 to produce for the city’s Capital of Culture year, may have to be sold to avoid running up massive storage bills.

Cork City Council is to hold a special debate on the 2005 EU Capital of Culture programme, which included the commissioning of the knitted map, a project slated by some as a breathtaking waste of money.

The map is currently in storage.

While the overall programme has been hailed as a tremendous success by city manager Joe Gavin, having generated tourism revenues of more than €90m, there is increasing controversy about the knitted map.

Even the whereabouts of the map is the focus of controversy, with councillors demanding to know precisely where it is stored and how much it is costing.

The project – which was criticised even before the Cork 2005 programme commenced – emerged as one of the single most expensive items during the EU Capital of Culture celebration.

Three years ago, when the knitted map venture was first unveiled amid fanfare by Cork 2005 officials, some presumed the proposal was only a hoax.

But it proceeded to the funding stage. However, the knitted map, which was finally produced, was so large that it was regarded as unsuitable for display in any major public venue.

Privately, sources within the council have admitted that any approach to sell the map would be greeted “with relief”.

We are now well after 1 April!!!

😮 And to add to Cork’s embarrassment the map will go on show in Philadelphia USA for a number of months. It is then expected to tour parts of America’s east coast before returning to a permanent home in Cork. Thankfully the Kinsale Road landfill site is not yet at full capacity!

Clearly, J. Gavin’s megalomaniac bid to rival the Bayeux Tapestery!!

@Praxiteles wrote:

Clearly, J. Gavin’s megalomaniac bid to rival the Bayeux Tapestery!!

Plus, other then the President who was the patron, Cork 2005 had 16 members of the Board, 32 staff, 6 manning the information centre, 11 consultants, and 9 interns, 74 in total.

@kite wrote:

Plus, other then the President who was the patron, Cork 2005 had 16 members of the Board, 32 staff, 6 manning the information centre, 11 consultants, and 9 interns, 74 in total.

That and all the Bayeux stitchers much have consumed most, if not all -and indeed a bit more than – the direct income of 320 million Euro. So, Cork’s rejoinder to the Norman invasion of England will probably end up costing the City!

Kite, you forgot the carol concert in Cork Cathedral with all the good and the great attending under the baton of Gaybo – including Johnny Buckley in a fetching blue geansai. Maybe the knitted map of Cork could be hung up in the Cork Cathedral – it would at least relieve the dullness left after Richard Hurley and Alex White. Otherwise, I am all in agreement for sending it towards the Kinsale Road infill – if it would be big enough to take it all!!

Have you any idea of the number of sheep involved and what it cost to persuade them to molt their fine fleeces?

Did anyone hear how the Water Street development oral hearing went. I heard it was on this week?

@yorktown wrote:

Did anyone hear how the Water Street development oral hearing went. I heard it was on this week?

ABP have pushed the decision date out to 24 November apparently. Long time since the planning was lodged on 17 May 05. Personally I think ABP are trying to withdraw gracefully now, I cant see how they have a leg to stand on re objections given O’ FLynns 17 storey tower going up right across the river.

😡 A relatively small development consisting of a new 3 storey building containing 6 no. 2 bedroom duplex apartments, 1 no. 2 bedroom apartment and 3 no. 1 bedroom apartments with associated open space, bin store enclosure, car parking, site & ancillary works at Looney’s Cross Wilton has been refused by CCC, one of the reasons being devaluing property in the area.
The way the anti apartment brigade in Wilton are carrying on (supported by some councilors) it’s a wonder anything is getting built out there.
Shame on CCC for bowing to the CSD group and ill informed Councillors.

@Pug wrote:

ABP have pushed the decision date out to 24 November apparently. Long time since the planning was lodged on 17 May 05. Personally I think ABP are trying to withdraw gracefully now, I cant see how they have a leg to stand on re objections given O’ FLynns 17 storey tower going up right across the river.

Personally, I wouldn’t be surprised if South Docklands received a much easier passage though planning than those on the North bank. Although I haven’t seen any rendered images, but I can’t imagine the Water St. development is going to do much for the view of the attractive “Northern Ridge” (as lexington put it) from the South Mall/city hall/South Docklands area.

@corkdood wrote:

Speaking of Cork redevelopment and regeneration, that site there looks fairly bleak, underdeveloped and underutilised area. Maybe its just the slight darkness in the photo but that area looks like it could do with a decent bit of building, crane-work and densification.

Where is that area in relation to Cork? I’m not that familiar with the positioning of landmarks in Cork, is it near the centre, or out Midleton/Blarney/Glanmire/Cobh way:confused:

The building on the left is the railway station on the Glanmire road. Behind the buildings on the right is the river.

Its in the middle of the city.

I agree sort of. I’d like to hear more about various proposals since that’s what interests me the most. Not to offend anyone but I come here since I’m interested in development and new architecture in Cork city (and elsewhere), not about whether some new store will become a supervalue or a centre. 🙂

I’ll try to go out and take some pictures tomorrow if I have the time. Hopefully the weather will clear up.

By the way I remember hearing about a 10-storey building proposed somewhere near the shell station near the R&H hall. Anyone have news on that one?

@malec wrote:

By the way I remember hearing about a 10-storey building proposed somewhere near the shell station near the R&H hall. Anyone have news on that one?

Heard nothing specific but the 10 storeys is the guideline height for the docklands as per the City Council Docklands strategy outlined over the summer

@Cathal Dunne wrote:

Speaking of Cork redevelopment and regeneration, that site there looks fairly bleak, underdeveloped and underutilised area. Maybe its just the slight darkness in the photo but that area looks like it could do with a decent bit of building, crane-work and densification.

Where is that area in relation to Cork? I’m not that familiar with the positioning of landmarks in Cork, is it near the centre, or out Midleton/Blarney/Glanmire/Cobh way:confused:

You are looking at Kent Station and the Docklands.

Blame the underuntilisation on the government as their lackeys CIE are the main landowner in this area.

This is an area that the City Council wants to redevelop into a new business hub. Manor Park Homes are in pre-planning for the majority of the site.

More from today’s olim Cork Examiner on the new terminal building at Cork Airport. I annot figure out why Academy St. is so obsessed with the subject:

02 October 2006

Airport experience leaves a lot to be desired — and improved

I RECENTLY used the new terminal at Cork International airport and this is a brief summary of our experience. In isolation, most of the following would have been acceptable.

First, the departure display board indicated a specific check-in desk for our flight to Tenerife but the said desk displayed Nice as the destination. I went to the check-in person, enquired as to what destination she was checking in and she said Tenerife. I pointed out that the display over the counter indicated Nice and she said she would have it corrected.

The queue for this flight had extended to the bookshop and had split in two directions. A member of staff tried to form a single queue by asking people who was there first.

Passengers for other flights had to divert through the bookshop to get through the crowd. Things got so crowded that the shop assistant asked passengers to move away from the newspaper stand as his customers were unable to find it.

Then, at the food hall upstairs, only one till was open. Customers in the queue were complaining and one woman asked why there was only one till open when there were three staff waiting to make tea/coffee. The girl operating the till did not understand the question, as she did not speak English.

In addition, the design of the counter along which you slide the tray with food and drink ends about six feet before the till, to allow for a passageway for staff.

So you have to lift the tray, walk for about three feet, and replace it back on the counter again at the till. This is unacceptable for a newly designed terminal.

At the bar in departures, no ice was available for our drinks.

On our arrival back from holiday at the airport, there were insufficient trolleys for the number of passengers. I asked an airport staff member where I could get a trolley and I was told they were “being collected at the moment”.

I eventually got a trolley, which was an obvious cast-off from Aer Rianta at Dublin Airport as it bore a sticker to that effect.

I informed the Aer Rianta member of staff at the information desk about the delay in trying to get a trolley and her response was: “We have had four flights arriving at the same time.”

As a member of our party was disabled (which would slow down the process of us getting settled into the car) I also enquired from the same information desk staff member whether a cashier was on duty at the exit (as the time between paying inside and paying at the exit may have exceeded the time allowed). I was told there was.

We proceeded to the exit to find there was no cashier and nor was there a response from the assistance call bell. A queue of cars had formed behind us at this stage as only one of the two exits was in use.

I had to phone Cork Airport from my mobile to get assistance. When the car-park attendant arrived, he said one of our party would have to return to the multi-storey car park with him to pay the fee.

During our walk back, in the rain (almost one full hour after we had landed), he told me only 400 trolleys were available for the whole airport and that “our hearts are broken from people complaining”.

Can anyone clarify whether Cork Airport really is an international one?

Adrian Moloney
Ennis Road
Gort
Co Galway

As i said before, it’s not the new Terminal building itself that is at fault. It is the too few staff and the ridiculous pennypinching which leads to underutilisation of airbridges, lack of new trolleys, lack of the correct number of check in staff, etc.
There’s little or nothing wrong with the airport design. It is the utilisation of the building which is causing the problems. I mean, seriously, how much to buy 500 new trolleys? then scrap the worst of the old ones and we’d have c.800 trolleys for customer use.

@Praxiteles wrote:

More from today’s olim Cork Examiner on the new terminal building at Cork Airport. I annot figure out why Academy St. is so obsessed with the subject:

I eventually got a trolley, which was an obvious cast-off from Aer Rianta at Dublin Airport as it bore a sticker to that effect.

I informed the Aer Rianta member of staff at the information desk about the delay in trying to get a trolley and her response was: “We have had four flights arriving at the same time.”

Cork international what?

The number of checkin staff on duty is not within the control of the airport, it’s the airlines or their handling agents.

Nevertheless, that letter is a disturbing read.

University Collage Cork’s prominence as one of the major players in development in the city may be under pressure if the contents of an open letter sent to staff members last week prove true. An extract from the 13 page letter on the above matter goes as follows;

The Finance Committee of the GB reported recently that the ‘unfunded’ capital deficit was 41.16 million euro. The same Finance Committee reported that UCC is likely to exceed its overdraft facility of 9 million euro on the current budget. UCC reported officially to the HEA that our current debts exceed 100 million euro. Within that 100 million, it is claimed that the 10.6 million borrowed for the Medical Building is ‘funded’, because UCC expects [in the future] to earn money from economic fee-paying students in medicine that will help pay off the debt.
Likewise, for approximately 60 million of the total debt, it is hoped that specified future earnings will help discharged the debts. None of these expectations of future possible income-streams changes the reality that:
(a) UCC is in debt to the tune of approximately 100 million euro;
(b) UCC currently pays a significant amount of its current income on interests charges;
(c) these debts will be passed on to the next generation and will seriously hinder developments because our future earnings are already committed to paying off debts incurred during your presidency. Can you confirm what UCC pays annually in interest charges on its total debts?
These figures vary from month to month, but the unfunded capital deficit has increased every year since you came into office as President. We now seem to have reached a crisis with the proposed IT Building. Can you confirm, or can you arrange for any of your officials to confirm, that the HEA and/or the Department of Education and Science has agreed to fund the costs [or some of the costs] of this building? If not, is UCC about to add an extra 60 million euro to its ‘unfunded’ capital deficit? 😮

I’d imagine they could generate quite a sum of money by putting the old greyhound track on the market. It is disgraceful that nothing has happened at such a prominent site for almost ten years.

@mickeydocs wrote:

I’d imagine they could generate quite a sum of money by putting the old greyhound track on the market. It is disgraceful that nothing has happened at such a prominent site for almost ten years.

Ascon / Rohcon moved on to the site 2 weeks ago AFAIK.
Diggers were working there last Friday.

@Spinal Tap wrote:

Ascon / Rohcon moved on to the site 2 weeks ago AFAIK.
Diggers were working there last Friday.

are they finally building the new BIS School?

New IT Centre. Anyone have a few renders to see how it’ll look like?

@malec wrote:

New IT Centre. Anyone have a few renders to see how it’ll look like?

The render was in the Irish Examiner 2 weeks ago – I think that Project Management are involved.
Nothing to get excited about.

@A-ha wrote:

Alot of talk over the supposed new M&S in Wilton. Will they close the deal or not is being questioned everywhere. However, another large retailer is said to be interested in the old Roches Stores unit…. but who could they be? Anyone know more information?

Oh and if it’s Dunnes…. don’t even bother telling me, thats the one thing I don’t wanna know!

I was of the understanding that M&S had little hope of ever getting the Wilton store as past posts on this thread (Lex as I remember?) mentioned plans for a “Landmark” building on the site next to the Wilton Roundabout, redevelopment of the existing RS into a mixed use 6 storey retail / residential units and a multi storey car park next to the Wilton Church

😮 SMC’s proposal for a six-storey private hospital near Dunnes Stores in Bishopstown has been refused by planners.
Planners refused permission because the project was too large and out of scale with the area.

@A-ha wrote:

Oh and if it’s Dunnes…. don’t even bother telling me, thats the one thing I don’t wanna know!

Penneys was mentioned

😎 It is hoped that the sale by CCC under the Derelict Site Act of a 0.16 hectare site on Beasley Street / South Mall and 18 Parnell Place to Michael and Kevin Corbett will kickstart development in this rundown area of the city.

😮 CCC have refused permission to Frinailla for the redevelopment of the Dennehy’s Cross garage showroom and former post office.
There were 3 objections to the proposel, An Tasice, the Parish Priest and as usual the CSD.
A victory for NIMBYism?

@Pug wrote:

Penneys was mentioned

Doubt if it’s Dunnes for Wilton, Tesco inserted a non-compete clause when it sold the centre so Dunnes wouldn’t be able to sell groceries there. The redevelopment option by the way does not affect the existing centre by the way.

Somewhat off-topic, but I liked these shots of the Opera House and the new apartment development on the opposite quay (Camden Wharf I believe, but please correct me if wrong). I know we have discussed the apartment building in detail here before, but I thought this photo would put it in some context as to its architectural merits or otherwise. The Opera House facade is a significant improvement on what was there before.

And this photo shows the Opera House and behind it the Crawford Art Gallery & School of Art. One of my favourite buildings in Cork.

😮 I agree that the Opera house is an improvement on what was there before, so would a lump of dog pooh!!

Is there any other country in Europe that would allow the Opera House or the apartments on Camden Quay (as per your photo) to be built within a mile of the Crawford Gallery?

Any developments on the potential shopping centre encorporating The Cineplex, Central Shoe store and a number of sides fronting St Patrick street ?

@kite wrote:

If the identity of his backers becomes public knowledge the shite will really hit the fan!!

So c’mon, out with the details. We promise we’ll keep it between us. And anyway, Cork could do with a good load of manure sailing gracefully by.

The Sunday Independent reports on the Debt Crisis in UCC.
THE PUBLIC Accounts Committee (PAC) is to ask severe questions of the Department of Education over issues in respect of the construction of an IT building at University College Cork (UCC) when the committee meets next Thursday.
The news comes as the Sunday Independent has learned that UCC has begun construction on a €65m IT building without full and final approval from the department or the Higher Education Authority (HEA). As a result, the college, which is in substantial debt, risks losing its capital funding. This would force it to assume the significant construction costs.
Full Exclusive story here http://www.unison.ie/irish_independent/stories.php3?ca=9&si=1702332&issue_id=14742

@kesey wrote:

So c’mon, out with the details. We promise we’ll keep it between us. And anyway, Cork could do with a good load of manure sailing gracefully by.

]http://www.irishexaminer.com/irishexaminer/pages/story.aspx-qqqg=ireland-qqqm=ireland-qqqa=ireland-qqqid=15393-qqqx=1.asp[/url]

The newly opened Cork City and County Archive Building on Great Willaim O’Brien Street is to be named the Seamus Murphy Building after a recent vote by CCC.
Seamus Murphy was a sculptor from Mallow who worked on Watercourse Road in Blackpool. He designed The Church of the Annunciation, Blackpool and completed most of the sculptural stonework in the building himself.
His work is also evident in many busts, plaques and commemorative stones (including gravestones) around the country, as well as numerous statue pieces. The 110th anniversary of his birth will take place in 2007 and this is part of CCC’s commemoration of that year.

New Archives Centre in Blackpool

Seamus Murphy

Blackpool Church, Seamus Murphy’s masterpiece

Interestingly, not a single token cut-stone on the building! Murphy believed the death knell for Cork stone-cutters was sounded by the building of Christ the King in Turner’s Cross. Maybe it would be a better idea to decide BEFORE hand with regard to whom a building is to be dedicated rather than after when there is little possibility of incorporating any sensitivity to the person honoured. However, I suppose we have to be grateful for small mercies.

😡 Fears that anti apartment paranoia in Cork is spreading to areas outside Wilton is confirmed by tonight’s Evening Echo reporting that Cllr. Terry Shannon has joined the NIMBY brigade declaring that high rise developments are not suitable for his area.
Cllr. Shannon spoke against apartments in city hall recently supported (surprisingly) by Jim Corr, Denis O’Flynn, Catherine Clancy, Ciaran Lynch, and Sean Martin, these beauties joined the usual anti’s such as McCarthy- Buttimer, O’Brien, O’Leary, Barry et al.

Proposed developments that are upsetting our poor councilors include;

Cormac Smith’s proposal for the demolition of Springville House, Blackrock and the construction of a residential development consisting of 29 No. apartments and 7 No. townhouses and parking for 40 No. vehicles with access off Bull’s Lane.

Lane Homes plans to demolish Lovett’s Restaurant and the associated stone boundary wall and construct 33 no. apartments consisting of 10 no. 1 bedoom apartments & 23 no.2 bedroom apartments over 2, 3, and 4 storeys.

Extinguishing part of the green area in Lake Lawn, Douglas to allow access for apartment development.

Redevelopment of the Ardmanning Bar, Togher Road.

Redevelopment of the Doughcloyne Hotel

How will urban sprawl ever be addressed with narrow minded fools such as these?:o

Actually, I’m still a little surprised that Lovett’s isn’t a listed building.

I have a little sympathy for the councillors in this case. High rise development is only appropriate in conjunction with decent public transport (or locations that are walkable to places of employment/retail/entertainment) and neither of the sites mentioned have that. If you put high-rise there and all the inhabitants have to use their cars, the consequence would be havoc on the local roads. And the roads in that portion of the city don’t have the capacity of the ones around Wilton.

High rise along rail lines, bus routes (with at least a bus every 10 minutes) or potential future light rail routes is acceptable, but it’s not appropriate in all locations.

@jungle wrote:

I have a little sympathy for the councillors in this case. High rise development is only appropriate in conjunction with decent public transport (or locations that are walkable to places of employment/retail/entertainment) and neither of the sites mentioned have that.

High rise along rail lines, bus routes (with at least a bus every 10 minutes) or potential future light rail routes is acceptable, but it’s not appropriate in all locations.

If the councillors actually did something about the transport in the first place we wouldnt be having this argument. Councillors are in effect powerless and should either be abolished or a full review of their duties and expenses should be completed.

You have to have sympathy for Lake Lawn, there should be no green areas extinguished. My general point is that I agree completely that the transport links need to be in place before the high rise in the suburbs takes place, but there should be no reason why there cant be high rise in town.

Douglas is a nightmare for traffic and until something is done about it, then it will just get worse, I dont see the councillors trying to sort it out, they have to rely on teh NRA which is completely out of their hands.

@kite wrote:

The docklands should provide us with a well designed area for high rise apartments if Councillors and Management of CCC ever get off their backsides and make things happen.
Almost 10 years on and the docks area is still like a pigsty:o

Could it be argued that allowing suburban high-rise (low-medium-rise :rolleyes: ) is damaging the Docklands plan?

must say I think knocking Lovetts is a disgrace. When you look at some of the stuff that is listed (apparently the old science building in UCC is!) its amazing this isn’t.

Just generally, is it that post-Lexington this site doesn’t capture all the development news in existence or have things gone this quiet? the city needs something big to happen asap (CIE are you listening).

@browser wrote:

must say I think knocking Lovetts is a disgrace. When you look at some of the stuff that is listed (apparently the old science building in UCC is!) its amazing this isn’t.

Just generally, is it that post-Lexington this site doesn’t capture all the development news in existence or have things gone this quiet? the city needs something big to happen asap (CIE are you listening).

From the following link it looks clear that Irish Rail are not going to carry out the original plans 🙁

http://www.irishrail.ie/news_centre/news.asp?action=view&news_id=198

@mhenness wrote:

From the following link it looks clear that Irish Rail are not going to carry out the original plans 🙁

http://www.irishrail.ie/news_centre/news.asp?action=view&news_id=198

Why does nobody kick up about this kind of thing? We were supposed to get a reconfigured station on the quay thus bringing it much nearer to town. The main bus station was to move there too with Horgan’s Quay being a feeder station. It was supposed to be a huge project, not a €4m temporary fix-it.

I’m telling you, we really should declare Independence down here and take our oil/gas reserves to our new State. The chances of getting any proper infrastructural investment in this Country anywhere other than Dublin are zilch (and no, a road linking Dublin with Cork is not infrastructural investment in Cork. Our “National” roads merely link Dublin with everywhere, that is it). In fairness to the Dubs, fair play if they can get away with siphoning the nation’s taxes for their own use. I just cannot believe the rest of the country, including “Rebel” Cork, is so docile when it happens.

Rant over. Have a good weekend.

@mhenness wrote:

From the following link it looks clear that Irish Rail are not going to carry out the original plans 🙁

http://www.irishrail.ie/news_centre/news.asp?action=view&news_id=198

A major redevelopment of Kent Station for 4 million!!
A house extention in some parts of the Country would cost more.:eek:
I assume that figure as printed in the Echo is a misprint?

Almost two years after the first suggestion of a land swap in one of the south’s most affluent housing suburbs, Douglas Golf Club members in Cork are to meet developers Castlelands Construction in early 2007 to be shown ambitious plans for a “two-for-one swap”, with two, 18-hole Robert Trent Jones II-designed courses, all on 400 acres of land off the Carrigaline Road. By Tommy Barker in today’s IE
Full story here;
http://www.irishexaminer.com/irishexaminer/pages/story.aspx-qqqg=ireland-qqqm=ireland-qqqa=ireland-qqqid=15813-qqqx=1.asp

@kite wrote:

A major redevelopment of Kent Station for 4 million!!
A house extention in some parts of the Country would cost more.:eek:
I assume that figure as printed in the Echo is a misprint?

I don’t think it’s a misprint. If you look at the list of things they are proposing to do, they are only a subset of the original plans where they said they would create a plaza at the back of kent station so travellers could walk straight towards the city centre over a new pedestrian bridge. I don’t see even an ambiguous suggestion that they are going to do this in the article. 🙁

@mhenness wrote:

I don’t think it’s a misprint. If you look at the list of things they are proposing to do, they are only a subset of the original plans where they said they would create a plaza at the back of kent station so travellers could walk straight towards the city centre over a new pedestrian bridge. I don’t see even an ambiguous suggestion that they are going to do this in the article. 🙁

😮 God help us one and all if this is true.
CCC have a lot to answer for in allowing this type of third world piecemeal development…an utter, utter embarrassment for Cork City and the overpaid muppets running planning in Cork

Bloody idiots. Stupid, useless idiots.

First thing they need to do is say to hell with the carpark and rebuild the station, before the whole thing falls down.

Look at the ceiling next time you’re waiting for a train and you’ll see what I mean.

whats the story with kent station? I thought they were planning to turn it around to face the river and expand it to the size and standard of heuston station!? It nows seems like they have setteled for a small scale redevelopment which is after getting me thinking and it seems this is always the case in Cork, we never seem to be ambitious and think big when it comes to building and development and this can be seen by the mindless fools who keep fighting high rise developments (3 storys, in fairness they go on about Cork being a exciting vibrant developing european city and they fight developments over 3 storys)!I really cant stand these people, why dont they shag off to a village or small town somewhere if thats the way they want to it because you cant have both and Cork is going to struggle and lose its location as the second city with people like this holding it back! Another example is the event centre which is a really important development for the city for the above reasons and really has to be sorted out fast before limerick gets there first and again we aim for a 5000 seat centre and limerick plans a 8000 seater and the point is to double its capacity which proves my point!if there was any ambitious developers and city planners there they would work to get Cork a 8-10,000 multi purpose seater centre like the odessy in belfast which would be the most benificial to the city! Just on this point aswell and iv mentioned this before but I was in Limerick the other day and it seems a much more developed city and I just cant understand this? I was in the roxboro,castletroy area and it was much more developed than anywhere in Cork id say, there was shopping centres,food outlets retail parks with stores that are not evan in Cork yet and I just cant understand this for a place that at least has double the population and to make matters worse they will probably get the conference centre before us aswell the way its going! Just wondering does anyone have an answer to this, is it the city planners holding Cork back or are the developers just not ambitious enough or whats the story?:mad:

For all his faults Mr. Joe Gavin has been absolutely consistent in his drive to provide Cork with a conference centre and has identified the area surrounding Kent Station as his preferred location for same.
I wonder if the developers who expressed an interest in building the centre will be but off the idea by the piecemeal development of Kent?
CIE’s heel dragging on their site has caused nothing but trouble for the Manager and the city, I feel the past history on this site (O’Callaghan / Coveney) is making them slow to commit to redevelopment.

@kite wrote:

For all his faults Mr. Joe Gavin has been absolutely consistent in his drive to provide Cork with a conference centre and has identified the area surrounding Kent Station as his preferred location for same.
I wonder if the developers who expressed an interest in building the centre will be but off the idea by the piecemeal development of Kent?
CIE’s heel dragging on their site has caused nothing but trouble for the Manager and the city, I feel the past history on this site (O’Callaghan / Coveney) is making them slow to commit to redevelopment.

Kents Station is dragging on for years and only goes to show how Cork always loses out to funding,from the new airport to the delayed school of music,decentralisation….roll on the next election.
Mockery of the highest order and only goes to keep up the image of how hard it is to get development in the “second”city for “high rise” i.e.anything over 3 -storeys.Mary Leland writing weekly in the Sunday Independent knocking anything that is happening in the city waffling from her comfy house on about new developments and everybody dhould have an uninterrupted view of St.Finnbars Cathedral.Dublin is to get a 17,500 seat conference / concert centre,Dundalk a 8,000 seat centre.Killarneys hotels are full as the NEC holds 4,500.Our business leaders are weak,our TD’s are moribund and as for our planners………….

Looks like Blackpool is set for another huge residential development.
A deal has been reached which will result in one of the largest residential developments yet in the rapidly re-developing village, within 10 minutes walk of St.Patrick Street.
Loftus have just completed the purchase of T&A building supplies on Watercourse Road (with rear access on Great William O’Brien Street), as well as the adjacent public house. It is widely believed that Loftus also own (and have done for a number of years) the low density retail units between T&A and the former Lido Cinema building (itself the subject of a recent planning rejection).
The site itself is similar in size to Frinailla’s Watercourse Road offering, City Square/Lady’s Well and is within a stones throw of the new Government Buildings/Revenue Offices currently under construction. With both Blackpool Shopping/Retail centre and St.Patrick’s Street just a 10 minute stroll away, this site will be a developers dream for residential use.
A sale price of €12.5 million has been mooted.
Plans will now be formulated for a high density residential development with minor retail frontages. The site is constrained somewhat, in that it borders on its southern edge, Madden’s Buildings, which are listed, protected structures. Recent large scale developments adjacent to these buildings have been rightly, cut down in size to protect the one storey cottages from being overlooked.
On the rest of the site however, expect some fairly hardcore development.
Also expect some important local input, with Kathleen Lynch TD living just 100 yards from the site, she has already shown her willingness to battle developers on behalf of local residents.
This development’s impact on Great William O’Brien Street, Madden’s Buildings and Watercourse Road will make it one that will be argued over for a while yet.
Anyway, early days, everything is still at the very early planning stages.

“Plans will now be formulated for a high density residential development with minor retail frontages”

Great, just what the world needs, more apartments! I’m glad the developers aren’t wasting their time on building conference centres, train stations, museums, public spaces and other things we already have too many of in Cork.

Radioactiveman, post Lexington you seem to me to be the most informed poster on this site re impending development. Am v depressed with what I read on this site these days. Is there anything in the pipeline to cheer me up (ie. anything other than apartments in Suburbia – and yes I do welcome urban renewal in Blackpool etc but you know what I mean…).

thanks in advance.

Kathleen Lynch actually lives in Shanakiel

In Jan 2005, we were promised (again) that Kent station would be treated to a €25m development. Either this €4m refurb is the beginning of this or its another fob off. Dont see the point in refurbing it all until the entire station is moved around to face the quays though. Why not wait until then? Surely all the works involved would only rip up the station again for the €25m devt?

@mickeydocs wrote:

Kathleen Lynch actually lives in Shanakiel

She must feel fairly stupid now as all the locals are moaning that they are losing their bank to Blackpool S.C. and the nearest ATM will be on Bridge St. in the city.A.I.B. have decided to move out completly.

Anyone got any photos of how the work is coming along at the Frinailla site in Blackpool.

The city manager has been hinting at great things to come for Blackpool for a while now so it’ll be interesting to see what panders out with respect to future developments.

Are T&A moving to a retail park?

@Spinal Tap wrote:

Kents Station is dragging on for years and only goes to show how Cork always loses out to funding,from the new airport to the delayed school of music,decentralisation….roll on the next election.
Mockery of the highest order and only goes to keep up the image of how hard it is to get development in the “second”city for “high rise” i.e.anything over 3 -storeys.Mary Leland writing weekly in the Sunday Independent knocking anything that is happening in the city waffling from her comfy house on about new developments and everybody dhould have an uninterrupted view of St.Finnbars Cathedral.Dublin is to get a 17,500 seat conference / concert centre,Dundalk a 8,000 seat centre.Killarneys hotels are full as the NEC holds 4,500.Our business leaders are weak,our TD’s are moribund and as for our planners………….

Those that propose a height cap in Cork are more to be pitied than helped.
As for Mary Leland’s ranting in the press…the landed gentry will always have their own hidden agenda to keep the great unwashed at bay.
Good to see that CCC has today granted Mark Kelleher permission in Bishopstown to increase density on his assembled site, a kick where it hurts for the NIMBY’s? 😎

Halford, PC World and Currys (I think) are all opening after November 10th in Mahon Point Retail Park 🙂

@Hafez wrote:

Halford, PC World and Currys (I think) are all opening after November 10th in Mahon Point Retail Park 🙂

About time.

BTW, anyone know whats doing into those huge warehouse sized buildings behind Pizza Hut in Little Island

@Micko wrote:

About time.

BTW, anyone know whats doing into those huge warehouse sized buildings behind Pizza Hut in Little Island

It’s a bit of a mystery.
3 of them were built at an early stage of East Gate and have never been occupied.
Now they have built more.
I believe they tried to get one of the big supermarkets in there at the outset but were refused planning permission.

@lawyer wrote:

It’s a bit of a mystery.
3 of them were built at an early stage of East Gate and have never been occupied.
Now they have built more.
I believe they tried to get one of the big supermarkets in there at the outset but were refused planning permission.

Looks as if they have a white elephant on their hands. And it’ll get even worse if Pizza Hut closes. The place is doing very bad business from what I can tell.

I’ve been to pizza hut about 5 times since it opened, Everytime has been busy except a wednesday afternoon when I went for lunch. Can’t see them closing anytime soon

Local radio in Cork reports this morning that the Pennys retail store is to move into the former Roches store in Wilton.
Pennys would be acceptable to Joe O’Donovan and his backers as they do not sell foodstuffs and hence would not be in direct competition as would M&S.
Great news for the local traders of the Wilton Centre in the run up to Christmas.

@Micko wrote:

About time.

BTW, anyone know whats doing into those huge warehouse sized buildings behind Pizza Hut in Little Island

AKAIK Caseys Furniture are menat to be taking the large 100,000sq.ft. unit

@Spinal Tap wrote:

AKAIK Caseys Furniture are menat to be taking the large 100,000sq.ft. unit

interesting – would they then pull out of city centre or leave it as a showcase type store? and Penneys to go to Wilton as well as in City Centre? Thats a decent expansion.

Some interesting planning developments::
Roche tackles “rogue developers”

Minister for the Environment, Heritage and Local Government, Dick Roche T.D. announced today (17 Oct. 06) that he has signed a Commencement Order for a number of key measures contained in the Planning and Development (Strategic Infrastructure) Act 2006.

As well as introducing a new strategic consent process for major infrastructure of national and public importance the Act also introduces a number of important changes relating to applications for planning permissions generally. The Minister emphasised the particular importance of Section 9 of the Act which will enable planning authorities to withhold planning permissions from rogue developers on the basis of past history of non-compliance, for instance, for not completing housing estates.

“Any such abuse of our planning code cannot be tolerated. In the past some rogue developers have been getting away with not doing their jobs. Until now planning authorities have been required to prove an applicant’s history of non-compliance with permissions or conditions of permissions before the High Court before they could act. However, good sense would suggest that the onus should be on the applicant to apply to the High Court to have such refusals annulled. That is the effect of this new ‘rogue developers clause’. In essence this measure reverses the burden of proof and should make it easier for local authorities to tackle bad developers.”
Other important provisions now commenced will enhance the powers of the Board to deal with appeals made primarily, or solely, with the intention of extracting money from the applicant. Minister Roche commented that “Occasional spurious and groundless appeals are an unfortunate feature of our system. They pervert our democratic processes and divert time and resources away from dealing with authentic and justified appeals. In this regard the powers of the Board have previously been insufficient, but I am confident that the new measures will redress that situation and ensure that the Board is suitably equipped to deal appropriately with appeals that are made primarily, or solely with the intention of extorting money from an applicant”.
Important provisions relating to the submission of documents to the Board in relation to planning appeals have also now been commenced. At present only the information provided by the applicant or generated by the planning authority must be sent on to the Board by the relevant planning authority. The Act now requires that all submissions should be forwarded to the Board to be taken into account and not just those received from prescribed bodies. This would mean that any person who makes a submission in relation to an application can be certain that that submission will also ultimately be considered by the Board if an appeal is made.

Other Sections of the Act now commenced include those relating to;
· Conditions that can be imposed by a planning authority on a planning permission, including conditions requiring developers to maintain an existing amenity for the public;
· Referral of disputes in relation to compliance conditions to An Bord Pleanala;
· Enhanced participation for NGO’s in the planning process. The proposed change will mean that NGO’s that fulfil certain conditions need not prove “substantial interest”, though they must still of course establish substantial grounds for any challenge. Allowing such concerned groups access to the courts in appropriate cases reinforces the democratic process as well as ensuring that our Aarhus obligations continue to be fulfilled.
· Acquisition of sub stratum lands (lands below 10 m) at nil value, unless the claimant can prove otherwise, potentially saving both time and money in the metro projects.

Minister Roche concluded by saying that all necessary steps were being taken to ensure that the main strategic infrastructure provisions of the Act could be commenced later in the Autumn.
ENDS
http://www.gov.ie

🙂 Frinailla have at last been granted permission on the former Keating Bakery site on Tramore Road.
This will clean up what was an eyesore for many years. (providing no appeal goes to ABP?)

@A-ha wrote:

At least not another Dunnes.

Hear Hear!

Hate to keep asking questions about different project, but anyone have any info on the office development beside Penrose Wharf in the present car park ?

Eglinton St development progress:

Crane being put up:

@malec wrote:

Eglinton St development progress:

Crane being put up:

wow i was just wondering about the progress here! Have you any update frmo up close? Is the foundation already poured?

They were pumping concrete yesterday afternoon and evening, but I suspect that was crane related foundation rather than building related?

Its happened again….

This evening In Carrigtwohill, a small village just 10 miles outside the city, A local landmark, which had stood on the main st for well over 100 years was “knocked”, In spite of the frontage being Subject to a preservation order.
Barry Bros of main st, formerly centra, suffered some inexplicable structural difficulty while it was being “renovated” which meant the entire building was knocked unceremoniusly this evening, and quite unprofessionaly too, in my opinion. I understand the roof collapsed last night after those involved in renovations removed a supporting pillar from the lower floor.
The Building, which is the end building on the Main st formes the corner at the Entrance to St Als convent. It was knocked using a Loadalls bucket. No bracing is in place to support the adjoining Shop, Forrests.

Locals are wondering when the bulldozer will arrive to do similar to Barryscourt Castle.

Its nothing other than Pure vandalism.

😎 CCC committee members approved a report from the Director of Services to develop the Military Cemetery at Assumption Road, Blackpool into a local park.
Works will include provision of boundary walls and paths, trees and shrub planting, playground etc., and will be done with sensitivity to the fact that the site is a graveyard, with no interred remains being disturbed and relevant advise being sought to ensure that works would be carried out in a way that recognises and builds on the heritage of the old graveyard.

🙂 Councillors are also to vote on a motion to remove the skate park from Tory Top Road which has destroyed the resident’s enjoyment of the original park and become slum like after only 3 months.

😡 The City manager now intends to repeat this mistake by turning part of Fitzgerald’s Park into a state park.

So the skaters will be back to Emmett Place IMHO

What ever happened in relation to the M & S proposal for the former Roches that hit the news: was it resolved?

Re posting 400:

Does the Imperial War Graves Commission have an involvment here and, if so, have they been consulted?

😉 Cork City Manager is to confirm (or not) if a Marina is to be built near Lough Mahon Point in view of the fact that an agreement on this venture was planned as a condition of the sale of lands in Mahon in the 1990’s

@Keen wrote:

wow i was just wondering about the progress here! Have you any update frmo up close? Is the foundation already poured?

I doubt it, a few weeks ago they were still digging the hole so probably a good bit more work to do.
If I’ve time and if the pissing rain stops I might go up onto the city hall carpark again and take a few shots

@Thomond Park wrote:

What ever happened in relation to the M & S proposal for the former Roches that hit the news: was it resolved?

It wasnt resolved, 170 workers lost their jobs. Penneys are supposedly taking the space there and unions are trying to get Penneys to take on the workers who lost out.

I should have posted this last week, but never got round to it:

O’Callaghan Properties are set to submit further information and revised plans for its much anticipated development at Academy Street/St.Patrick’s Street and Emmett Place.
A number of important/protected/listed buildings are within this development area. These include, the St. Patrick Street frontages, Parts of the Examiner Office, Le Chateau and buildings on Emmett Place.
The original development was designed to provide a mixed use, residential/commercial floor area of 33388 sq m, providing 19 large ‘comparison goods’ retail units and 91 apartments (17 x one bed; 54 x two bed; 15 three bed; 5 duplex). Two gyms were also to be included in the residential part of the development.
Faulkener’s lane was set to be widened and redeveloped as a public space, while Bowling Green Street was set to be largely ignored- used for service access, ESB substations, etc.

The new information and revised plans include the following:
(a) reduction in apartment numbers from 91 to 68 (6 x one bed; 53 x two bed; 9 x three bed).
(b) overall height reduced by omitting dispropotionate upper floor areas. Curved feature roof facing onto Emmett Place, Academy Street also to be removed.
(c) Revised elevatiosn to all street frontages.
(d) St. Patrick’s Street frontage now due to include complete demolition of the former Ryan’s Pharmacy (now Cork City FC shop) and the construction of a new elevation to Patrick’s Street.
(e) Former Examiner Office entrance elements of 94-96 St.Patrick’s Street top be retained. (how much of the total facade of these buildings to be retained is unclear at present).
(f) Changes to apartment lobbies/ service entrances on Academy Street, Faulkners lane, Bowling Green St. to ensure maximum retail frontage.
(g) revised retail layout to ensure access from Bowling Green Street
(h) revised frontage at Academy Street to omit changes to no.s 1-6.

original design images:

Joe O’Donovan has paid €7.5m for the former Ernst & Young building on Oliver Plk Street, what is this man using for Cash! It would be nice if someone could add up his current exposure to the Cork property market, for his sake lets hope the good times keep comin’ and comin’

@orion wrote:

Joe O’Donovan has paid €7.5m for the former Ernst & Young building on Oliver Plk Street, what is this man using for Cash! It would be nice if someone could add up his current exposure to the Cork property market, for his sake lets hope the good times keep comin’ and comin’

Joe O’Donovan and his backers must have major plans for Cork City, and good luck to them (although the Roches M&S debacle leaves bad feelings for some)
I hope the sun keeps shining on them as spending millions on some sites that remain idle to this day must take deep pockets and a steady nerve!!:eek:

Does anyone have any pics of the Coal Quay developments or any idea of what kind of shops will be going there? A Habitat would go down well I’d say 🙂

I like Habitat its a much better retail experience than IKEA which have in true Sweedish fashion made shopping there a feat of endurance as one is forced to do a long long lap at most stores even if you wish to purchase something in the first retail set.

Kite

Thanks for this update; this must go down as one of the most senseless acts in commercial property in recent years given the draw that M & S present vs a Penneys; why didn’t he just do the deal and lock in the reduced yield with his bankers as a revalued asset? 😮