Decentralisation – the end…?
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So Charlie’s being conveniently packed off to Brussels… Does anyone think the demise of decentralisation will coincide with this?
i presume so. it was implemented stupidly anyway. just looking to fill the city’s of the respective ministers. idea was sound enough though
Originally posted by d_d_dallas
So Charlie’s being conveniently packed off to Brussels… Does anyone think the demise of decentralisation will coincide with this?Yes and it is also quite possible that the now well again Liz O’Donnell will replace Tom Parlon, Liz was possibly the best overseas aid minister for state ever. Decentralisation of resources vs favours possibly?
I think McCreevy was a good choice like MCSharry before him
I’m not a big fan of the major parties espically Fianna Fail, although they seem to be the only ones that make anything happen.
However I am/was a fan of Mc Greevys, I though him a good finance minister, was not too quick to go out borrowing which is very tempting for any finance minister, kept the purse strings tight, respected that.
Also believe he gave all he could to the health service etc but this money has been mismanaged, that is where the problems are, the NRA etc.Originally posted by FIN
very true.oh! by the way i thought u were in cardiff, not castlebar.
Both centres renowned for extra curricular activities with sheep, so does it matter? 😀
Or centralised, depending on the way you look at it!
Originally published by An Taisce
An Taisce Statement on Decentralisationhttp://www.antaisce.org/press/index.html?id=860
Decentralisation is the opportunity for the Government to showcase sustainable building techniques commended in their own policy documents, said a spokesman from An Taisce.An Taisce recently issued a statement addressed to the Decentralisation Implementation Committee and Office of Public Works asking that all new developments undertaken by the Government to locate public servants outside of Dublin be built in accordance with best practice in line with the Commission of the European Communities communication ‘Towards a thematic strategy on the urban environment.’ Responding to the Report of the Decentralisation Implementation Group published on the 7th of April, the document stresses the importance of ensuring that sustainability criteria are considered in all decisions regarding accommodation.
The statement expresses concern that the decentralisation programme as announced fails to support strategic national spatial planning and may have negative implications in relation to the investment in infrastructure and services in Gateways and Hubs, as suggested by the submission by the presidents of the engineering, planning and architectural professional bodies. However, An Taisce confirms their support for the Government’s commitment to decentralisation subject to assurances that, in terms of location, the reuse of older buildings, the construction of new buildings and the provision of attendant housing and social infrastructure, the most socially, economically and environmentally sustainable options are chosen.
The statement quotes from the Governments own ‘Guidelines on Architectural Heritage Protection’ on the importance of encapsulating the value of retaining old buildings as, for example in Ballihadreen where a government unit has already been relocated into an old convent, and refers to many underused institutional buildings in some of the towns nominated for decentralisation.
Where no appropriate building already exists sites should be located close to town centres taking into account the need to minimise the growth in traffic, a key imperative in all recent government policies.
Most importantly new buildings associated with the decentralisation programme offer the opportunity to show-case sustainable construction and energy conservation as proposed in the Sustainable Development Strategy 1997 which states that new development should minimise artificial lighting, heating and mechanical ventilation, should avoid air conditioning, conserve water, use the site and material wisely and recycle where possible. Building Regulations are currently being updated to meet European standards to encompass new insulation and energy ratings and Government research into new procurement methods can be tested and developed.
Once buildings have been constructed or converted there are further procedures that are needed to reach agreed standards of sustainable development such as mobility strategies. The statement also refers to associated housing provision and social services as part of sustainable development, in particular the need to encourage staff to live in the towns where they may contribute to the existing community and possibly make improvements to the social infrastructure more viable.
I suppose they could decentralise the 20% who want to go, to locations highlighted by the NSS in the type of buildings described above, or contemporary buildings only of a high architectural quality . I believe FF/PD lost 25% of their Councillors in the recipient constituencies during the local election.
Decentralisation plans hit legal snag
25/07/04 00:00
By Niamh Connolly
The government has been warned that staff in 30 state agencies could pursue constructive dismissal cases if it proceeds with its plan to decentralise jobs out of Dublin.In a further blow to the government’s controversial policy, officials at the Department of Finance have been warned by the union, Siptu, that any attempt to transfer state agencies to the regions could lead to “a situation of dismissal” under the terms of the Redundancy Payments Act 1997.
Siptu, which represents 20 state agencies, briefed finance officials on legal advice it had received about decentralisation at a meeting last month, according to Owen Reidy, the union’s branch secretary for state and related agencies.
“We have brought it to the attention of the department of finance that if the plan were to go ahead as envisaged, it has the potential to lead to a dismissal or compulsory redundancy situation,” he said.
Only 2 per cent of state agency employees, out of 2,249 surveyed, expressed any interest in moving out of Dublin, according to figures compiled by the Central Application Facility (Caf).
According to Reidy, 95 per cent of Siptu’s membership were not interested in relocating with their agency.
If an employer moves a workplace to an alternative location that exceeds a certain reasonable distance, there is the potential for a redundancy situation to arise, Reidy said.
The figures show no staff want to move to Athlone, where the Higher Education Authority is to be relocated under the decentralisation plan.
Staff also do not want to move to Mallow, Co Cork, where Failte Ireland is to be relocated, Clonakilty, Co Cork (Bord Iascaigh Mhara), Carrickmacross (Comhairle, the advisory agency), Monaghan (Combat Poverty Agency), Shannon (Irish Aviation Authority) and Thomastown, Co Kilkenny (Health and Safety Authority).
Just seven of the 292 staff in Enterprise Ireland want to move to Shannon, while just five of the 382 staff in Fas want to move to Birr.
The terms and conditions of employment for people working in state agencies differ from those of civil servants.
There is an established practice of civil servants transferring between departments to gain experience and this was facilitated by the clerical and administrative nature of their work.
However, no similar mechanism exists for state agency staff with specialised skills to transfer between agencies.
This presents the government with a potential legal problem if it proceeds with its decentralisation plans.
“National Roads Authority engineers have specific skills and do not have the option of becoming tax inspectors,” said Reidy. Similarly, specialised staff in the Ordinance Survey of Ireland are not likely to transfer to the Combat Poverty Agency.
“Where are they going to get employment for their skills with the same conditions and terms of employment, unless they move with their workplace?” said Reidy.
Siptu urged a boycott of this survey on the grounds that it was not voluntary, as it did not offer state sector employees the option of remaining in Dublin.
It has also written to state agency employers advising them of a pre-emptive ballot on the potential of pre-emptive strike action, “should the situation worsen”, according to the union.
The Caf figures show that only 7.5 per cent of civil service staff are interested in moving out of Dublin. This amounts to 471 out of a total 6,277 civil servants.
Despite the paucity of interest among civil servants and state agency staff, the Minister of State at the Department of Finance, Tom Parlon, is proceeding with the purchase of sites in Athlone, the Curragh, Longford, Furbo, Carlow and Trim for relocated state agencies and departments.
Originally posted by Paul Clerkin
Decentralisation plans hit legal snag25/07/04 00:00
By Niamh Connolly
The government has been warned that staff in 30 state agencies could pursue constructive dismissal cases if it proceeds with its plan to decentralise jobs out of Dublin.In a further blow to the government’s controversial policy, officials at the Department of Finance have been warned by the union, Siptu, that any attempt to transfer state agencies to the regions could lead to “a situation of dismissal” under the terms of the Redundancy Payments Act 1997.
Only 2 per cent of state agency employees, out of 2,249 surveyed, expressed any interest in moving out of Dublin, according to figures compiled by the Central Application Facility (Caf).
“National Roads Authority engineers have specific skills and do not have the option of becoming tax inspectors,” said Reidy.
It might not do any harm if the NRA gained some experience of just how limited state funds are before shovelling so much cash in to multiple motorways ie 4 in Co Meath and a 70+ mile link from Portlaoise to Limerick when two in Meath and a 25 mile link was possible for Limerick.
Originally Posted By Paul Clerkin
Despite the paucity of interest among civil servants and state agency staff, the Minister of State at the Department of Finance, Tom Parlon, is proceeding with the purchase of sites in Athlone, the Curragh, Longford, Furbo, Carlow and Trim for relocated state agencies and departments. [/B]I will be surprised to see Parlon at Junior ministerial level come Christmas, the Midlands expansion strategy of the PDs is in crisis, 2 Council seats in Offaly will see Parlon lucky to return and the Mae Sexton is History the Pharma plant promised for Longford has gone to Southern Belgium and her constituency base no longer exists thanks to the boundary commission
In it’s present form I think decentralisation should be stopped, but the problem there is that no politician will go near it again for years if it is.
Seems to have been very poorly planned with politics and not common sense playing too big a role. First they developed the spatial plan, which seemed fairly manageable if maybe a bit thinly spread out. Then with decentralisation they totally neglected their new strategy making the whole thing a bit of a farce.
IMHO large population centres should get most of the jobs, such as Cork, Limerick, Waterford, Galway, Sligo….etc.. instead they give them to places like Clonakilty, which is a very nice town but is not going to attract your average civil servant. Another recommendation was to have most of the positions near Dublin so as to avail of the airport, which seems to me to defeat the whole purpose of decentralisation, in effect creating a (bigger) Dublin sprawl. Build up the other airports??? Dublin is already at breaking point!!
Anyway they need to stop treating it as a political football and make some tough decisions because in the end it is going to be as bad for Dublin as it is for the rest of the country……………and we are already seeing plenty of examples!!
Originally posted by Leesider
In it’s present form I think decentralisation should be stopped,IMHO large population centres should get most of the jobs, such as Cork, Limerick, Waterford, Galway, Sligo….etc.. instead they give them to places like Clonakilty, which is a very nice town but is not going to attract your average civil servant.
There were jobs decentralised out of Cork City recently as well was it to Bandon or Macroom?
How do Cork people feel about it?
Personally, I’d have no problem moving to any of the places you mentioned even Clon but on spatial planning grounds only places the size of Sligo or bigger would work I think.
2,000 semi-state jobs including Failte Ireland would do Cork no harm and would aid your plans for a commercially viable trans-atlantic service.
On a purely personal level, I like cities, and if I was in the civil service, and was told that my department was moving, I would instantly be looking for a new job, or trying to claim constructive dismissal…. you couldnt pay me enough to move to any of the places on the list
Is there a parallel with Dublin after the Act of Union?
The move of the MPs and their retinues to London is said to have sunk Dublin – which at the time was a prominent European city – into a long recession.
I was reading a chapter in an interesting book (A Tale of Two Cities, about Dublin and London in the 19th centuries) which seemed to be saying that although the city went into a recession, the Act of Union wasn’t thought to be the reason (although there were many anti-union protests in the run up to the act which foretold economic woes for the city if passed).
After all the trouble it took to get the city back into shape (up until the 1960’s or 1990’s) it would be a pity if the government kicked it back down again by relocating so many jobs – vibrant urban centres can’t be taken for granted.
I think the opportunity that decentralisation presents is to give the critical mass required necessary through positive agglomeration economies to a few urban centres other than Dublin.
I agree that the last thing we want to do is damage Dublin but I think that comparisons with 1801 are not really valid when one looks at the types of industry Dublin had then and now.
Dublin declined after 1801 quite coincidentelly and judging from the number of developments carried out in the 1810-30’s it was the early Victorian era before Dublin stopped doing well never mind declined.
The reasons Dublin declined were largely because technology moved on from linen and glass industries to more location specific industries such as engineering and coal became the prime determinate of efficiency.
The early 1800′ also saw the opening of the New York Ship canal to the great lakes with the cost of cargo falling 95% in one project, all of a sudden the profits earned from food exports evaporated as North America kick started open market economics
Today Ireland is ahead of the pack with technology most notably IT and meditech, it is possible to decentralise a certain amount of government from Dublin to make room for new investments.
Although I think the approach thus far has been a farce, instead of moving departments, the criterion questions should be what functions can be ‘back-officed’ effectively from all government departments and semi-state bodies?
What would prove attractive sites for the existing workforce to transfer to?
As Paul has said he likes cities, I think that is a fairly general opinion of most city dwellers
Very interesting – is that the Eerie Canal? Amazing that such a distant development had an impact on Dublin.
The economic effect I think is interesting because of its impact on built form. It appears to me that the late 19th century building stock is very thin on the ground compared to other UK cities of the time, especially with an absence of purpose built flats form the late 19th – early 20th century as exists in London. Is this correct?
On the decentralisation I think the ludicrous side comes in when the government is trying to physically decentralise a system which remains resolutely centralised in political terms. Decentralisationn could be beneficial if more power was devolved to local authorities and provinces – then relocating bureaucrats could be justified and surely the regions would benifit more from this.
Medium sized towns can offer a better lifestyle as you look to settle down, but young people will always ( if ambitious at all) prefer Cities.
Dublin, however, is not Manhatten. A suburb in Dublin can look much like one in Sligo, or anywhere else.
I prefer having both, myself. One of the advantages of being a culchie, and Dublin resident, is that we have acheap place in the countryside to visit when the City gets tiresome, you know 🙂
I think De-Centralization should proceed with one area chosen, Cork or Limerick. Just choose an area, and nowhere else. The civil servants who are opposed to it should get compensation.
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