Cycling in Irish Cities

@cobalt wrote:

Both tracks on one side of the road would certainly work to give enough width to pass, but I’m not sure of the implications for actually travelling – e.g. if you wanted to make a left turn and your cycle track was actually on the right hand side of the road, you’d have to cross all the traffic going both directions to do so. Although at a glance you might think that’s no different from the current situation where you’re on the left of the road and want to turn right, in fact it is worse because you’ve not got the benefit of filter arrows etc. that are set up to allow cars to turn, as would be the case if the bike were on the same side of the road as the cars. You’d end up having to cross with the pedestrians. And there’s never going to be continuity between all the streets for which side of the road the cycle lane is on. It’s a nice thought, but I think it’d end up making cycling desperately cumbersome, so people whose primary motivation in cycling is to get around the city efficiently just would stick on the road with the cars. And then the car drivers would get frustrated because we’re not in the cycle lanes.

Nor would it solve the glass problem, which I have to say is a bit of a bugbear of mine.

Ok so what we need to do in that case is increase the time alloted to pedestrians (and consequently cyclists) .

Vis a vis broken glass and peddles , thats is a question of maintenance . If such a laneway included both directions it ought to be wide enought to allow one of the specialized cleaning vehicles you see in temple bar to pass over and suck up all beneath it.

I think the cumbersome nature of making certain turns ought to be outweighed by the fact that despite the growth of different areas in the city , the vast majority of people go in one direction — town.

perhaps my idea ought to be consider as a stage. I.e. a way of initially getting people out of cars , thereby freeing up space which could then be reassed and reused in a better way. we have to start somewhere.

I know it rains alot but i firmly believe that if one was just to provide something like a physically seperated cycling lane people would jump at the chance. Car commuting is one of the most soul destroying inventions of the last century.

i am not so naive as to think that some porker is going hop on a bike to save time. But i do think there are some people who are in cars would like to cycle. The sight of people on bikes leisurely cycling by as they sit in traffic would encourage a lot of people to migrate .

As regards cycling through the city ; you are a braver man than i.

What i am really trying to get is that this is a fairly simple thing to do , which can improve things without any perceptable disimprovement to car drivers. Because let’s face a large part of the problem is that with so many having to use cars it is difficult to argue reduction in car access unless you can guarantee enormous improvements in congestion, which of course you never can . every car driver that decides to take the bus/walk /cycle is just a quickly replaced by someone else.

expecting a car to sit behind another car turning right , instead of nipping into the cycle lanes is just never going to happen .

No amount of policing will ever provide the level of respect for road traffic rules you seek. Sad maybe (personnallly i don’t, i think it is a good thing that people in general are disrepectfull for some of our road traffic rules as they are a joke.)

not even in germany do they have that level of respect and as a result they often segregate cyclists.

far better to provide an exclusive space for cyclists , i think you concerns regarding left and right turns are over inflated. but no matter is not much more to add.

the idea is stated , it will never happen , and the just recently published census comfirms that we have cemented the development of the country for the nest century as a long commuting los angelas style environment. Even if we put cycle lanes in who the fuck is going to use them since all young people are living in athlone, portlaoise, and portarlingtion (i don’t even know where that is).

There is some good to this government . but when it comes to the nuts and bolts of living : it’s like two deaf and dumb monkeys at the controls …

Sorry to interject in your debate, lads. Just one minor thing:

@a boyle wrote:

not even in germany do they have that level of respect

They have it in The Netherlands.

I was at the Dublin Cycling Campaign annual lecture a couple of months ago and a woman in the audience asked how could cyclists make themnselves more visible. She was asking about lights, high-vis jackets etc., but it occurred to me that cyclists would be more visible if the penalties for hitting them were higher. You can almost guarantee that if a motorist were to get the death penalty for killing a cyclist, they’d make damn sure not to do it.
I know it’s an extreme example, but it serves to illustrate that motorists obviously see the existing penalties as minor relative to the crime, or have a level of confidence that little if anything will happen to them in the event of an incident.

anyway, sorry to interrupt. As ye were.

if that is how you feel fair enough, but after being knocked over twice i wouldn’t dare cycle anywhere without a helmet.

I’m genuinely surprised to hear this. I’ve been cycling on and off in Dublin for nearly 15 years and I’ve never been knocked over – if by being knocked over you mean hit by a car. My cycling accidents have included falling after hitting wandering pedestrians (twice) and crashing into the side of a car which took a sudden left turn into a side street from slow moving traffic. The former resulted in some scratches and bruises and the latter a broken finger. Also years ago, I crashed into a pole 10 yards after mounting my bike having consumed a large amount of whiskey – I mistake I learned from.

I sound horribly negative here – and I don’t mean to be really. On the whole, I enjoy cycling round Dublin.

I not only enjoy it, I love it; especially when the weather is good.

I see from a recent article in the (London) Times that Ken Livingstone is proposing bikes should have numberplates.

The Times, July 28, 2006
Cycle numberplate plan to catch lawless riders
By Nicola Woolcock

CYCLISTS in London could be made to fit numberplates to their bikes under plans being drawn up by Ken Livingstone, the capital’s mayor.

All bicycles would be registered so that riders breaking the law, by cycling on pavements or going through red lights, could be caught on traffic cameras. Mr Livingstone is also investigating a possible ban on jaywalking, which is illegal in some countries.

Speaking on the London radio station LBC yesterday, Mr Livingstone said: “I think, I’m now persuaded, we should actually say that bikes and their owners should be registered.

“There should be a numberplate on the back so that the ones breaking the law, we can get them off the cameras. It’s the only way you can do it.”

Mr Livingstone was responding to a listener’s question about what the mayor would do to stop cyclists using the capital’s pavements.

He added: “You’ve got to have legislation, but I think, most likely we’ll look at putting up what’s called a private Bill and I think I can get the London boroughs — all of them, irrespective of parties — to most likely go along with that and have a proper vehicle/bicycle registration.”

Asked if that meant licence plates for bicycles, he said: “Yes, so you can catch the ones — the ones that are obeying the law, it makes no difference — but the ones who are going over red lights, driving on pavements, you get ’em.”

When asked about banning jaywalking — whereby people cross the road other than at zebra crossings or when a “green man” sign is shown — he said: “In America jaywalking is illegal, but in America you have this situation that at virtually every busy junction there is a zebra crossing and as the lights change the pedestrian has priority and only when they’ve crossed can then the cars turn.

“Now when John Redwood [the Conservative frontbencher] recently came up with some transport policies, that was the only one that I thought we should look at, and we are looking at that.

“But if you are going to ban jaywalking you’re going to have to have a lot more actual formal pedestrian crossings.”

Concern has increased over the behaviour of cyclists because of the rising number of bicycles on the roads in London.

Figures released last month showed that the number of people cycling in the capital had risen by 50 per cent in the past five years. Between 1993 and 2003 the level remained almost unchanged, but there are now 450,000 cycle trips in London every day.

It is thought that concerns about pollution, overcrowded and expensive public transport and the wish to keep fit have inspired the boom. Fear among commuters about using buses and the Underground after the July 7 terrorist attacks is also believed to be a factor.

Transport for London claims that investment in the London Cycle Network will mean that there will be 560 miles of cycle routes across London by 2010. Its annual expenditure on cycling has risen to

@a boyle wrote:

seems like a good idea,

if bicyles had small license plate you could easily remove the wrecked bicycles locked all over the city, and either charge the owner for getting rid of them , or return them to the owner.

I really don’t see this happening, where are you going to mount a plate big enough to be seen by cameras which wouldn’t be obscured by the actual cyclist, his coat, bag etc. I can’t see seven year old kids heading down to Store Street to get their plates mounted to their bikes.

I would like all the abandoned bikes to be removed from the city though. They could start by taking all the wrecked ones. Whilst doing that they can tag all the rest, If they are still there in a month then take them too. In an ironic twist, I some times have to cycle around Dublin looking for a space to park my bike.

@a boyle wrote:

I don’t think the gardai would be allowed to simply collect the hundreds of wrecked bicycles . Even if they were allowed they won’t do it as it would cost them a fair bit to dispose of them all. they would want to be able to charge the owners.

with all the computers and things around , a fairly simple system for registring you bicycle could be put in place at modest cost.

Actually they do this already (or rather the city council do) and the bikes are auctioned once a year from Kevin Street station.

Awww come on…you know the way by know. All these things are done. They just never seem to be done. LOL

an idea would be to remove all locked bikes on the first day of the month (first monday say).

on the last day of the month a sticker could be placed on any suspicious bike, warning of removal.