Cork Transport
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@PVC King wrote:
Dave I was gobsmacked when you exceeded post 321. Where have you been hiding in recent times?
Waterford getting a priority inter urban Dual Carriageway was a deadful decision and can only be compared to the M3 going to Kells as they are both totally politically motivated white elephants.
Take this one onto the Tara thread
Laughed at that myself. It was just a mere coincidence really. 123 – 321 I’ve being on but I haven’t posted since.
Spotted something exciting so I posted it. I’m back:D
Well Dual carriagway would have being ok till Kilkenny at least. Traffic pretty much is quiet after that. I’d agree with the last statement.
Traffic levels for the quietest section of the proposed Waterford DC is only slightly lower NOW than the minimum for dualling. If parts were built as DC and parts of 2+1 everyone would have a fit.
Waterford deserves DC, the N9 is a joke. Im glad its getting done 🙂 Future proofing for a change 🙂
Galway is getting Outer City Bypass, Ennis – Athenry N18, and N6 hookups.
Cork will soon (post 2010) get N28 upgrade, SRR flyovers, N20 to Limerick dual, possible DC Midleton – Youghal. Takes time, but is all in planning 🙂
@THE_Chris wrote:
Traffic levels for the quietest section of the proposed Waterford DC is only slightly lower NOW than the minimum for dualling. If parts were built as DC and parts of 2+1 everyone would have a fit.
Waterford deserves DC, the N9 is a joke. Im glad its getting done 🙂 Future proofing for a change 🙂
The figures below from the NRA display that it is a white elephant
http://www.nra.ie/Transportation/TrafficDataCollection/TrafficCounterData/html/N09-05.htm
http://www.nra.ie/Transportation/TrafficDataCollection/TrafficCounterData/html/N09-10.htm
Comapred to Dunkettle
http://www.nra.ie/Transportation/TrafficDataCollection/TrafficCounterData/html/N08-04A.htm
Little Island
http://www.nra.ie/Transportation/TrafficDataCollection/TrafficCounterData/html/N25-41B.htm
An equivelent distance on N6 at Athlone
http://www.nra.ie/Transportation/TrafficDataCollection/TrafficCounterData/html/N06-16.htm
dave123 wrote:Not an opinion, but fact.Cork has got enough investment in infrastructure in this government, comparing to other regions.
Wouldn’t disagree with this e-mail save for the one obvious “region” not mentioned being our nation’s capital. I know its vastly bigger than other regions but still, pro rata, it cleans up financially. For every €1 spent in Dublin there’s probably (complete guesswork here) 8c spent in Cork, 6c in Limerick and Galway and 4c in Waterford. The Dublin metropolitan region is about 4/5 times bigger than Cork Metro region (ca. 1.25m v 250,000) but it certainly gets more than 4/5 times the funding. As far as I can see, given its spread-out nature, rural Ireland (of necessity?) also gets more money per person thus leaving the regional cities as piggy in the middle. I know the Airport Debt is a hoary ol’ chestnut at this stage but I thought it summed up the situation perfectly that on a day when the Gov announced it couldn’t come up with €100m to pay off the remaining debt it proceeded to spend €600m buying the toll bridge in Dublin (without anyone really campaigning for them to do so – not sure anyone actually benefits from it).
Whether Cork does better than other regional cities, I genuinely don’t know but its much of a muchness. If we did “future proofing” in this country as someone suggested above there’d certainly be light rail in Cork and to a lesser degree in Limerick and Galway, proper links to Shannon and Cork airports, dual carriageway / motorway from Cork to Galway, proper municipal sports stadiums in Waterford, Galway, Limerick and Cork, a university in Waterford, rail from Cork to Galway (without passing through Portarlington!), clean water in Galway, etc.
Some chance at present.
I never understood why the motorway network had to so closely mirror the existing road network.
If you’d created a motorway from Dublin that went west of Carlow and east of Kilkenny and then split for Cork and Waterford with another motorway going west that would split for Limerick and Waterford at some point in the Midlands, you could have achieved the same coverage for much less motorway built. Instead, we have to get motorways that follow almost the exact route of the N6, 7, 8, 9 etc where there were already decent enough roads.
Just when I was starting to enjoy the forum again, back comes idiot boy from Limerick with his invented population stats.
@mickeydocs wrote:
Just when I was starting to enjoy the forum again, back comes idiot boy from Limerick with his invented population stats.
Oh behave you.:p
@jungle wrote:
I never understood why the motorway network had to so closely mirror the existing road network.
If you’d created a motorway from Dublin that went west of Carlow and east of Kilkenny and then split for Cork and Waterford with another motorway going west that would split for Limerick and Waterford at some point in the Midlands, you could have achieved the same coverage for much less motorway built. Instead, we have to get motorways that follow almost the exact route of the N6, 7, 8, 9 etc where there were already decent enough roads.
Actually that was the way that the road used to go until thirty or forty years ago. I calculated that it would be an extra thirty or so miles to go from cork to dublin that way. That makes an overall saving of 50 miles (give or take 20 miles) of road that would have to be built.
How much does a DC cost per mile?
I agree with that, do 2 lane motorway from Cork to Waterford, and then 3 lane motorway from Waterford to Dublin. The N8 should not be dualled, just 2+1 or WS2.
@jungle wrote:
another motorway going west that would split for Limerick and Waterford at some point in the Midlands
As many of you probably guessed, that should have read Limerick and Galway.
@THE_Chris wrote:
I agree with that, do 2 lane motorway from Cork to Waterford, and then 3 lane motorway from Waterford to Dublin. The N8 should not be dualled, just 2+1 or WS2.
Prior to the establishment of the National Primary road designation system the routings were considerably different with T6 routing to Cork via Kilkenny, Clonmel before rejoining the present N8 at Cahir. The Waterford routed T8 was along the east coast via New Ross & Enniscorthy before joining the present N11.
The simple solution would have been to revert to the old T6 routing in Motorway form to Kilkenny before switching to Dual Carriageway to Fermoy and motorway again to Dunkettle for Cork and upgrade the routes from Kilkenny to waterford at either 2 plus 1 or wide carriageway and upgrade the N25 from Waterford to New Ross to Dual Carriageway and wide carriageway to Enniscorthy as the existing wide carriageway from Wexford to New Ross works perfectly to link the major towns of the south east. This would further reduce traffic on the final 15 miles of the N7 from Naas to the M50 which is as everyone knows a nightmare at peak times.
Instead we have 4 seperate dual carriageways to Waterford, Cork, Galway and Limerick the latter which Jungle quite rightly points out could have been served from a central alignment that served Tullamore before splitting for Roscrea and Athlone.
As wasteful as it is it has nothing on the M1, N2, M3, M4 routings out of Dublin on the East coast.
If only pouring concrete was an olympic sport.
How perceptive of you, Angry Rebel. My letter in the Indo (and a variant also published in de paper) was indeed intended to raise the hackles of the citizens of Whingeing Langerland aka Cork. It was inspired by Roy Keane’s latest untimely moan/rant on the eve of a critical qualifier for the national team. The airport terminal was merely a convenient target, lift almost any stone and you’ll find a cork moaner feeling hard done by. Why should the rest of the country have to put up with this schizophrenic superiority/inferiority complex? Incidentally, the Indo edited out the best part of my letter , which originally closed with the following sentiment: “Whingeing langers, the lot of them!â€. Regards, Peter
“Whingeing Langerland aka Cork”
“Whingeing langers, the lot of them!â€. Regards, Peter
God, this makes a real worthy contribuition to the topic of Cork transport!
By any chance are you a member of the Dublin Airport Authority?
:confused:
this schizophrenic superiority/inferiority complex?
seems like you are the one suffering from schizophrenia as you can’t decide whether we suffer from an inferiority or superiority complex.
I’ll help you decide:
Question: Did you hear about the Cork man with the inferiority complex?
Answer: He thought he was the same as everyone else.Anyone know when the speed limits are due to go up to 120 kph on GLanmire to Watergrasshill, Ballincollig Bypass and Dunkettle to Carigtowhill ?
@mollox wrote:
How perceptive of you, Angry Rebel. My letter in the Indo (and a variant also published in de paper) was indeed intended to raise the hackles of the citizens of Whingeing Langerland aka Cork. It was inspired by Roy Keane’s latest untimely moan/rant on the eve of a critical qualifier for the national team. The airport terminal was merely a convenient target, lift almost any stone and you’ll find a cork moaner feeling hard done by. Why should the rest of the country have to put up with this schizophrenic superiority/inferiority complex? Incidentally, the Indo edited out the best part of my letter , which originally closed with the following sentiment: “Whingeing langers, the lot of them!â€. Regards, Peter
Your ignorance is profound and can hopefully be due to a juvenile rant based on either ignorance,alcohol or both.
As I have moved here from Dublin 6 years ago which by the way has all the hassles of a big capital city with NONE of the conveniences whilst if the government never ever again invests in the city and county of Cork (we do pay a substantial ammount of tax to the nation ) .The government has messed up transport on a grand scale with the DAA leading the charge for stupidity with Martin Cullen a daily farce.
Cork city has a quality of life that most Dubliners could only dream of and yes they do take it for granted down here.
Can I just point out something about Cork Airport’s Terminal
1) Cork Airport Authority had nothing to do with budgeting it, building it, constructing it.
2) It was built by Aer Rianta and is under management of the DUBLIN AIRPORT AUTHORITYThe terminal’s not oversized, nor is it over spec’d. It’s a nice, decent terminal and very appropriate for the size of the city and the usage of the airport.
Note that Dublin’s Terminal 2 will only be about twice the size and is being estimated to cost about €2bn…
It all depends on how you present the figures and what your agenda is.
This whole fiasco is to be layed at the door of the Government and the current minister for transport.Cork Airport Authority and the people of cork were given a firm committment that the airport would be debt free and thus compeditive. That hasn’t happened.
There were all sorts of petty last min. cuts like not installing air bridges, forcing it to use old rusty trolleys.. couldn’t be worse PR
Whatever messy accounting’s going on with the DAA is really besides the point. The issue is FF made a committment, a very serious one, and then completely rolled back on it. That’s totally unacceptable.
It will mean that the airport’s not going to be compeditive and will inevitably loose routes into Europe, particularly ones with tighter margins.It’s a major gateway for tourism and business to the entire south west and it’s insanity to be playing around with the future of a major peice of infrastructure like that.
I really think the minister ought to resign. How anyone could mess something that big up, that publically and that badly and keep their job is beyond me. I would suspect he’s not exactlyt he most popular person at any FF meetings in Cork as it must be making life hell for the local candidates, including Micheal Martin.
It also makes no sense that DAA should retain the international aspects of Aer Rianta. It’s a hugely unfair advantage as those overseas duty frees are a large and very profitable operation.The government should have just spun the 3 airports out as 3 debt free organisations. Aer Rianta duty free should have been spun off as a seperate company giving each airport a proprortional share holding or something fair like that.
@Micko wrote:
Anyone know when the speed limits are due to go up to 120 kph on GLanmire to Watergrasshill, Ballincollig Bypass and Dunkettle to Carigtowhill ?
Its gonna happen soon, I think. At the moment I think they’re in the standard legal waiting time, during which any objections can be lodged. After that its just a matter of replacing the 100kmh signs 🙂
Should be made M25 and M8 though, 120kmh is stupid without the restrictions that go with a motorway.
@MrX wrote:
This whole fiasco is to be layed at the door of the Government and the current minister for transport.
Cork Airport Authority and the people of cork were given a firm committment that the airport would be debt free and thus compeditive. That hasn’t happened.
Yes, but I can see Dublins point. The agreement was originally for the DAA to be saddled with Corks building debt, which is daft and unfair.
The government should take on the debt, not another airport.
It was an Aer Rianta project and as such the debt should be dealt with at national level; the important thing for Cork and Shannon is that they get their ongoing cost base right.
You have to assess their capacity to service debt in the context of their future investment needs. The real question is could the CAA service a €7m annual interest bill and ensure that service levels at the airport were unaffected?
I also wonder will Ryanair look at Cork for a transatlantic service given the likely double subsidy he could expect?
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