Carlisle Pier
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I remember the Pavilion gardens before the new complex was built, it was solely used by junkies, dealers, winos and pot smokers. There is now a theatre and restaurants, are these not for the public ?
Shaun, As I have stated before, I am not against its development. I am against its complete over commercialisation. Parks such as that one can simply be opened up by removing barriers and allowing people to move more freely into them. That park was surrounded by walls and railings on all sides. It could have been improved by adding public facilities alone (such as the Theatre and the restaurants you mentioned). There was no neccessity to take up most of its mass with Apartments.
Can’t agree with you there Phil, the appartments are top-notch, among the best in Dublin. There are enough parks in DL, and Morans park is right beside the Pavilion, and a nice park it is too.
Plus you have the piers which are also public places and all the seafront.Shaun, I am not arguing about the quality of the apartments in the Pavillion. Yes, they are quite nice indeed. I still do not think it was right for a public park to be given to developers in exchange for public facilities which are 100% commercial in their nature. I am not arguing that everything should be like the piers, and only for use by a non-paying public. I am arguing for a balance within developments like these. Incidently, I really like Moran Park. I would walk through it quite alot. However, it is has turned into the exact sort of place associated with the activities that you felt warented the Pavillion Gardens to be converted into what they are today. Tou might be interested to know that it is planned within the 2004-2010 development plan to build a public library within Moran Park. It is an interesting plan. I personally am in two minds about it at the moment, but it could really open up the use of Moran Park in comparison to what it is at present.
Thanks
Phil
Phil, yes I know that the drunks and junkies now habitate in Morans park, damn shame that, but they have been there for the last 25 years also, fine park, not your typical Irish park at all, even the statue of JC is magnificent, there’s nothing like it in Ireland.
A new public library sounds like a great idea, an opportunity to build something interesting and a also to get more people down into that general area.
Shaun, it is a great park. It is hard to know how to alter it so that it becomes more accessable without in some way altering its unique character. Even those concrete shelters beside the bowling green are quite cool.
The Libeskind design for the Carlisle proposed a version of the proposed library with a walkway between the park and their development.
The below document is quite interesting for anyone still interested in this development.
http://www.dlharbour.ie/files/downloads/project_carlisle_pier_redevelopment.pdf
That is a very interesting survey result and totally at odds with the selection decision, it would appear that the project selected reflected ‘The line of least resistance entry’ as if it were a damage limitation exercise as opposed to an architectural competition seeking excellence. The rating of importance given to ‘integration with Dun Laoghaire’ is not really surprising and that is unfortunate, one wonders how many people will reconsider the project if it goes ahead.
It was my favourite of the four from the renderings shown in your link but some of the other renderings around didn’t flatter it quite as much. Is there any news on the status of the project?
TP: I reckon that the Harbour Company are biding their time until the issues relating to the Baths subside for a while. I have also heard that it might not go ahead at all, but that was pure speculation and rumour, so don’t take it as my opinion. Just passing on what I had heard. The other parcel of land that was owned by the Harbour Company is being primed for development at the moment. This is the area to the west of the Town Hall where the Harbour Cottages were (until a few days ago that is). There is to be a mixed use scheme of offices and apartments along with a few retail outlets and a new public plaza. Incidently, the site to the south (which is presently occupied by the ‘Old School House’) has recently gone in for planning. Not sure on the details, but will have a look soon and fill you in. Originally a new public walkway was meant to link this site and the site of the Harbour Cottages together to give a new route up to the town (It is in the lates development plan). However, I am not sure if it has remained like that.
The town hall scheme looks like it is called ‘Crofton Court’ and the scheme is being marketed through Lisney, there are images in the office section accessed through the Dublin Office section of their site. (The web pages only identify the front page) 😮
The baths could be the death of the harbour project; there is some justification for the Hennigan Peng scheme in that the architecture is of a high standard, well at least to my eye, but the baths project has no where near the same level of design quality. I’d actually say that STW could design a more imaginative scheme. 🙁
Thomond Park wrote:The town hall scheme looks like it is called ‘Crofton Court’ and the scheme is being marketed through Lisney, there are images in the office section accessed through the Dublin Office section of their site. (The web pages only identify the front page) 😮The baths could be the death of the harbour project]
No, Crofton Court is a much older and smaller block of Apartments on Crofton Ave nearby (Although Lisney are referring to the office section of this new scheme as ‘Crofton Square’. I think it is to be called ‘Harbour View’:
http://www.dlharbour.ie/content/projects/harbour_view/index.php
Names for apartments are fast running out in Dun Laoghaire:
‘Marine Court’ (Older 1980s block beside Charemont Terrace) is a nicely executed modern design with bay windows, which fits nicely into the seafront, ‘The Anchorage’ (Block beside BIM building): Worst building in Dun Laoghaire, evern worse than the Shopping Centre or BIM in that it tried to pretend it was good! Hard to believe it is not that old. ‘Marina View’: On Cumberland Street near ‘The Anchorage’. Lucky land is running out, because I just dont know how many more imaginative names can be thought up! 🙂I wonder what the Baths apartments might be called? Mmmmmm, Baths View? (That sounds a bit dogy though). Maybe ‘Scotsmans View’ or even ‘Pier View’?
“The Finger”?
Now that you say it, that building could actually be read as giving ‘the finger’ to the rest of the town (in that sort of Charles Jencks metaphor way :p )! Similar to the way the ‘Gateway’ sculpture is said to be giving the two fingers to the County Council offices.
Bad news:
“The Dún Laoghaire Harbour Company is to re-examine proposals for the redevelopment of the Carlisle Pier after it decided this afternoon to withdraw preferred bidder status for the pier’s redevelopment from the Urban Capital consortium.”
More interesting news than bad news, I’d have said. Does this mean that the whole entry will be reevaluated? i.e. afaik the Urban Capital group included the heneghan.peng scheme rather than being simply an independent developer. Never liked the heneghan.peng scheme in the first place, so anything that might lead to a reconsideration is welcome.
Phil – Crofton Court was I think built in 1979 and Marine Court built about 1978.
I’m not an architect, just an ordinary bogman. Even though I am in favour of high rise buildings and lived/worked in them for years, I hate theCarlisle proposal but not as much as the DL Baths design. Both planned buildings are totally out of harmony with the local built and natural environment. The Regency & Victorian facades along the seafront are preserved, I’ve heard owners are not allowed off-street car parking… an overpowering high rise that is against their wishes certainly would be giving the finger to them! My bet is that Carlisle will be delayed indefinitely and the Baths will not go ahead as the CoCo is rapidly getting cold feet. Too many powerful people live in the area and/or are members of the yacht clubs that will be dwarfed. It’s a pity the shinners are getting in on the act, it will put off too many people who would support the protests.
Anyone remember the Depot? and Man-of-War steps?Why is it that we have to play around with everything in this country? Look at the U2 Tower for example. Why not build the winning entry instead of making things difficult? It really gets to me that. As a result we will end up with another bland and boring project. They are acting like babies.
Paul-
In this case, it seems that it is the fault of Urban Capital rather than the client. If anything, this decision is designed to expedite a result rather than further postpone one. From the little I have gleaned from media reports, it would seem that DLHC might be happy to proceed with the ‘victorious’ scheme using different project managers. But as I say, it’s from the media that I have got my info, so there could be ulterior motives that are bubbling below the surface- who knows.
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