Car free districts

It is an interesting proposal and it throws up the following questions

1> Given that LUAS is already at capacity how do you propose to move the passengers by rail?

2> How would the office users receive deliveries?

3> Would the owners of the principal site go along with it?

4> How would you design the carparks, there would be a lot of cars and carparks are an extremely low density landuse?

If details such as that could be worked out then possibly it may work on a phased basis

who’s yerself

how did you come across this idea…

what did the council say…

i had a bit of trouble finding more pics of other examples any good links?

Originally posted by Frank Taylor
[B
Most famous are Venice, Mont St Michel and The Medina of Casablanca… [/B]

Yes but the above are World Heritage Sites and not an edge city office park.

Two things will make or break your proposal.

Firstly the support of Dunloe Ewart i.e. Liam Carroll of Zoe developments fame, as he owns the bulk of the land concerned.

Secondly the building of a rail link from Shanngannagh on the existing Dart line back to Sandyford i.e A dart running in the direction of Bray turning back towards Sandyford facilitated by a newly engineered spur line on the old Harcourt St to Bray link, LUAS is at capacity as it is and there is little or no hope of significant capacity increases as it is a light railway.

It is an interesting concept I’m just not sure that Cherrywood represents the best place to start it. There are many sites on the Western and Northern fringes that have direct access to a rail line

Originally posted by Frank Taylor
Why is the support of the developer needed? Is the devloper not obliged to build according to the local area plan (or not at all)?

Strictly speaking yes, but even local action area plans are less specific than you would think, one developer sat on 1500 acres for two years because he didn’t like Part v of 2000 planning act regarding social and affordable housing. The major worry from a developers point of view is the two year withering planning permission, 12,000 people is a lot of investment in an untried project in Ireland.

Originally posted by Frank Taylor
The DTO srategy was to upgrade the Luas to Cherrywood line to Metro by 2010. Is this extremely unlikely?

The DTO’s Platform for change document is dead, check out http://www.platform11.org for the latest on rail transport.

Originally posted by Frank Taylor
Point taken. Which sites are you thinking of?

Re: Other Sites, the project that you are considering scores so highly in sustainability terms no local authority would have problems with it if you can find a suitable site and a willing developer. I would consider a areas around Hazelhatch station to the West, or Rush/Lusk to North a good target as both are set for major rail upgrades and are not a great distance from retail and other services.

Originally posted by Diaspora

The DTO’s Platform for change document is dead, check out http://www.platform11.org for the latest on rail transport.

Since when have the Pale Rail advocates become the be all and end all of rail transport? Platform 11 are the rail policy unit of Fine Gael and it can be seen in their half baked asshole policies.

Originally posted by ewanduffy
Since when have the Pale Rail advocates become the be all and end all of rail transport? Platform 11 are the rail policy unit of Fine Gael and it can be seen in their half baked asshole policies.

It is not to the best of my knowledge a political grouping of any description, but on transport matters are you really saying that Breannan has delivered?

No second terminal at the airport,
His inability to reform Aer Rianta or even cost it
An unconnected Luas system
And now a third unconnected system in his metro proposal, ie the existing rail system, the luas Light Rail and now a heavy rail system that connects only with the Light rail luas.

Maybe you should visit the site again, it is IE’s and the Oireachtas All party transport committee (Chaired by Eoin Ryan of Fianna Fail) whose plan they support.

This government pays the DTO 3.7m IEP per two months to sit on their arses writing reports that will never have the majority of the findings delivered, whilst the lions share of the funding goes to NRA projects such as Co Meaths 4th Motorway.

As for palerail, two major p11 campaigns have involved successfully getting a commitment to re-open the Midleton branch line in Cork and a push to have a direct Clonmel to Dublin Service opened. Just becasue they don’t support the northern end of the Western Rail corridor doesn’t make them pale-railers

Platform 11 wants useable rail services on existing lines and new service on lines for which an obvious need exists, as do I. If a huge lump of money is invested in the Western Rail Corridor, the poor return on investment will ensure that no more money is invested in railways outside of Dublin for another fifty years. If the airport metro goes ahead, it’s inevitable final cost of about €5bn, combined with the ongoing subsidy and poor suitability to its task (think of the tube line to Heathrow), will ensure that no more investment is made in railways in Dublin until oil finally runs out in a hundred years.

Originally posted by Diaspora

and a push to have a direct Clonmel to Dublin Service opened.

What yo neglected to mention was the abolition of services on the rest of the Limerick Junction – Rosslare Line.

I would have thought, Diaspora, that reopening rural railway lines would support and not hinder rural regeneration.

Originally posted by Andrew Duffy
Platform 11 wants useable rail services on existing lines and new service on lines for which an obvious need exists, as do I. If a huge lump of money is invested in the Western Rail Corridor, the poor return on investment will ensure that no more money is invested in railways outside of Dublin for another fifty years. If the airport metro goes ahead, it’s inevitable final cost of about €5bn, combined with the ongoing subsidy and poor suitability to its task (think of the tube line to Heathrow), will ensure that no more investment is made in railways in Dublin until oil finally runs out in a hundred years.

I’m sorry Andrew, but you’re talking bullshit, but what’s new.

Originally posted by ewanduffy

What you neglected to mention was the abolition of services on the rest of the Limerick Junction – Rosslare Line.

I would have thought, Diaspora, that reopening rural railway lines would support and not hinder rural regeneration.

I am not entirely sure that a policy in relation to closing Clonmel to Rosslare line is Platform11 policy. I agree that developing commuter rail into Waterford Limerick and Galway is a strategy that should be employed.

But I think that intergrating all of Dublins rail lines is a more pressing priority. Once the plans for the interconnection were finished I am sure that P11 will be going full tilt to have regional commuter services expanded beyond Corks latest plan

😉

What part is bullshit, brother? The inevitable failure of the Western Rail Corridor, or the inevitable cost overrun and poor suitability to task of the Airport Metro? Both seem certain to me. If you can provide an example from anywhere in the developed world of a railway similar to the Western Rail Corridor in population along the whole route that is operating at break-even or low subsidy I would be amazed. If such a line exists and doesn’t have its traffic massively skewed to one or two short commuter routes I’d be even more amazed. And you need only try to carry a suitcase from Heathrow on the tube to see how naive it is to build a tram line as the only rail connection to Dublin Airport.

If Platform11 are Fine Gael’s rail policy advocates then I may vote Fine Gael at the next election, though it goes against the grain, to get this implemented.

I am from CLonmel, though I haven’t lived there for a long time, and have just returned from the US. I fully support their ideas on the direct Clonmel Dublin line. I could care less about the Waterford Clonmel line, nor Waterford Limerick.

Buses are just as fast on those short lines.

As a Dublin resident, I fully support their ideas on the Dublin lines. The airport metro sucks. It seems to me to be the modern day equivalent of the only dual carriageway we used to have outside the Naas road – Limerick to Shannon. Keep the tourists happy, thinking we have good infrastructure – while the taxpayer resident rots. It is easy enough to get to the Airport using the Dart and the AerDart, even as it is.

As someone fond of the West – who thinks that the west gets a bad deal in infrastructure – I nevertheless do not support the western rail corridor – build a failed line which needs to be subsidised and you will never get another line opened again.

It’s hard to know where you are coming from Ewan, platform11’s ideas just make sense.

Originally posted by Frank Taylor

Thanks for the suggestions. Hazelhatch is right on the border of Kildare and South County Dublin, according to my map so I ‘ll have to get on to both councils.

Are there 4 tracks from Rush and Lusk to Connolly, or is the line shared with intercity trains?

Frank

Sorry Frank I missed your post.

Both of the above lines are listed for upgrade to 4 tracks under the Iarnrod Eireann/ Oireachtas all party transport committee proposal that was first mooted by platform11.

The question is will the new minister for transport build a metro line for the tourists to get from the airport to Temple Bar & Rtn or will they link up the existing lines as suggested by IE.

The locations I suggested were off the top of my head but it is that type of area 12-15 miles out of the City Centre that would best suit your plan I think. Somewhere beyond the edge of the city where a buffer zone could be inserted to discourage piggy backed development and the eventual swallowing up of your suggested development into the city.