Cafe Bars the new architectural challenge

I think it is a fabulous idea – the thought of of drinking alcohol for hours in a pub without food is just too unbearable
to contemplate. But it will all depend on the quality of food offered, the ambience and the type of alcohol offered –
I personally like Belgian beers and also some of the superb micro-brewery beers produced in Ireland.

Yes, I agree Thomand Park. A cafe/bar should NOT have the same design/layout as a pub. and I’m sure this can be
done – it’s certainly very successful in Italy and elsewhere in Europe. Quality food and drink, and value for money would make the concept a success. Incidentally, I’m not against pubs per se, but I do like choice.

The Clarendon…?

Surely this opens up new possibilities for the Bewleys Building on Grafton street????????

i think cafe bar deli is taking over the bewleys on grafton

Agreed, a fabulous design. But just in terms of the Clarendons operation – it should be a bar… but it’s not. It should be a restaurant… but it’s not. You have people dropping in for a coffee next to a table being served dinner next to someone nursing a pint. A worthy template.

@Thomond Park wrote:

Unfortunately the regulations are prescriptive to 130 sq m whilst Beweys is 920 sq m at ground level alone, the idea behind the regulations is to discourage super-pubs and ensure that people have some food while drinking.

Maybe a few few different ones could be set up in different rooms like the food court thing on liffey street.
That said i’ve never been in bewleys.

i think its a great way forward and not only will it promote more socialising but it will enable a variety of food now to be served as immigrants can avail of the new licensing laws. As anyone who has been abroad will know , the selection and variety of cheap food is always possible when immigrants who are less educated and speak less english have the opportunity to open and rent a small place to provide sufficient income to their families.

Manstein, I’m not sure if you are trolling or not, but your post sounds rather odd to me. Bear in mind that many immigrants are not “less educated” for a start.

On the broader topic I think McDowell is ill advised to suggest the main outcome of this measure will be less drunkenness. It is clear from ths speedy hostility of the publicans (and their sanctimonious anxiety about alcohol abuse) that their real concern is the impact on prices and profits. Their opposition would normally be enough to cause me to embrace the proposals. Cheaper drink and cheaper soft drinks – yes please.

However, given what Thomond Park said above, and from my limited knowledge of the regs relating to health and safety alnd licensing of kitchens in this country I’m sceptical of how profitable small cafes will be if they have to jump through the existing set of requirements. Most of the Italian cafes McDowell hankers after would surely go bust if they had to conform to the regs applying to Irish hot food venues. I’m sure others have more expertise on this aspect though?

I don’t understand -what is the proposed change?
If you have a small cafe you can get a wine and beer licence. So what’s new? Is it that the cafe doesn’t have to serve the alcohol with food? Also, I would have thought that the real hurdles to opening new bars are planning permission and property prices.

“Manstein, I’m not sure if you are trolling or not, but your post sounds rather odd to me. Bear in mind that many immigrants are not “less educated” for a start. “

My reading of the post was that he was talking about immigrants who were less educated, and not implying anything in general about the education of migrants, although why this entrepeneurial opportunity does not also apply to less educated Irish people is not determined. Maybe Irish people can’t cook.

“If you have a small cafe you can get a wine and beer licence. So what’s new? Is it that the cafe doesn’t have to serve the alcohol with food? Also, I would have thought that the real hurdles to opening new bars are planning permission and property prices.”

I see nothing new here. There are pubs – or at least there were – which had cafe licences, and gave free sausages out occasionally to meet the terms of the “cafe” part of the licence. Nice sausages too. And real cafes can serve alcohol already.

in fact reading the report again it seems that all they are doing to streamlining legislation and the reporter picked up on this “new” feature which isn’t.

I don’t those that are causing trouble and fights on the streets will really be interested in these establishments anyway, i don’t think mcdowell has the first idea what the real problems are.

Mob79, it is about cultural change – something that takes generations to change, but the conditions for cultural change have to be put in place – the rewards are long-term.
Manstein’s comments are ambiguous (yet also aggressive). Perhaps the last thing we need in our country is rhis kind
of agenda.
The hope is that we can achieve a civilised society and surely no-one can dispute that architecture can play a defining role in this process.

apologies if my comments seemed aggressive. i meant to refer to immigrants who had less qualifications and my choice of “less educated” was badly choosen only . on the record i for one welcome the new multi-cultural ireland having just arrived back after 3 years.

Please do Belgian style cafe bars – just back from Brussels and the whole experience was fantastic. Imagine being in places you can talk in, get a seat (no standing), get decent waiter service, places that attract families, couples, people reading papers, someone in for a bite to eat, or a coffee, or a beer – the whole experience is a pleasure. You would sit and nurse a drink for up to an hour rather than pour it down your throat (less agro later perhaps) – good call Minister McDowell, good call.

Oh and the beer & food is great and a good beer will only cost about €2,50

Alcohol with your food or washing food down with lots of liquid isn’t good for digestion though,…….. just thought i’d ruin everything.

Rory W, I agree – bars should be places for everyone: to drink, to eat something, to interact with other people in a spirit of conviviality and in a good-natured manner; witout aggression or the fear of violence caused by binge drinking.
Planning regulations have a part to play here – for example, the development of superpubs should be carefully controlled.

I thought this was an original idea but
http://www.justice.ie/80256E010039C5AF/vWeb/fl … Report.pdf would indicate otherwise

For an example of a small cafe-bar operating within the current licensing laws, try CYO on Camden Street. It seats about 20 and sells wines and bottled beers and even weiss beer on draft along with tapas style food. You can fill the whole place for an evening with a small circle of friends.

Cafe Bars is a load of nonsense – really it means ‘mini-pubs’ – and we have quite a lot of pubs already thanks very much – there are over 2000 in Dublin at the moment – so if the question is choice and competition, it is here already, however, I doubt you would ever get price competition if already there is none with 2000 bars…

Its populist nonsense that has already been spouted by the PDs – esp in relation to Dublin Airport – and we know the fine mess that has been made of that! Dont forget, FF, the publican party, would never allow the PDs get such a move passed them…

“Bertie Ahern said that in a democracy different viewpoints were considered before a decision was made and that is what had happened in this case”

so is that the Vintner’s Association’s viewpoint that was considered?