Blackhall Place Bridge

No. The bridge is intended for buses and taxis only afaik, buses going to blanchardstown get it very difficult to turh right onto the next one and hard right again off it before a hard turn left up Blackhall Place.

Besides “The Dead” house is in the way on the south bank.

I haven’t seen it lately. How is the work progressing and when is it due to open?

Was standing beside the site yesterday and the first pieces of painted steelwork is in position.

Seems to be a huge effort for a bridge that is not going to have access to taxpayers cars. Is it just me of does it look very flat- the bridge in the background is more arched shape- I think it is too flat- wonder what nickname this bridge will get- the eye lash!!

Hey, Mr Crawford. You seem to know a lot about the goings on in Harland and Wolff. If poss, could you e-mail me at blah@blah.com
I want to get in touch with you directly, if that would be ok.

“Seems to be a huge effort for a bridge that is not going to have access to taxpayers cars”

There’s more to life than cars Michael – whats wrong with good looking civic design, nothing civic should have to be as Sam Stephenson put it “self effacing like a VD clinic”.

I have deleted Darren’s comments on this bridge at his request:”I have since
received warnings of legal repercussions from Calatrava, Dublin Corp. and
Harland and Wolf and until this matter is resolved I would appreciate the
suspension of any posts attributed to me regarding this matter”.

I would appreciate it if people here could forget they read the comments and refrain from discussing them further.

[Mr Crawford. Your statements concerning the Blackhall Place Bridge project are totally irresponsible and inaccurate.In fact some might say bordering on foolhardy. This bridge has been designed by Santiago Calatrava, who you should know, purporting as you are to be a student of architecture, as a very experiencd, well respected design house of international reput. However, I’m sure that the said design house will decide to follow up, or otherwise, with you directly on your opinion. As far as Harland and Wolff are concerned your statements have caused acute embarrassment and potential contractual difficulty, although I accept that you probably did not intend this to be the case. I know that unwanted advice is never welcome but you and your peers would be well advised to consider such things BEFORE committing to print. This is especially the case if and when you do progress to the role of architect or engineer when you will realise how important such contractual issues are, as I’m sure your lecturer will no doubt explain to you.
Chas Connery – Director of Projects.
QUOTE]Originally posted by darrancrawford:
Bridge is being held up due to the extremely bad practice of one Mr S. Calatrava. His bridge is in pieces, on blocks in Harland and Wolffs shipyard in Belfast. It is suffering from multiple failures due to very bad detailling by Calatrava’s office, warnings given by H&W ignored, fundamental mistakes in fabrication were made on the insistance of Calatrava. The bridge’s key anchor points are now the subject of an ongoing wrangle with Calatrava, H&W and Dublin Corp. Put it simply, they are unbuidable and until Calatrava starts to listen to the fabrication experts in H&W the bridge will be indefinately delayed. Tellingly Calatrava have sent numerous bridge builders bankrupt all over Europe due to his poor practice. Betcha never read that in the AR[/QUOTE]

Well, at the risk of once again being edited, I can only wonder what information is accurate and what is not. I would rather this matter could have been resolved with a clear posting from one side or another, but a legal blackout on the matter???

Again, I hope this posts stands, and do understand (coming from a legal family) the implications involved for all.

fjp

[This message has been edited by fjp (edited 20 April 2002).]

FROM THE SUNDAY TIMES:

Design problems halt work on Dublin’s latest bridge
John Burns

DUBLIN city council has admitted that a landmark bridge across the River Liffey has been delayed because of serious fabrication problems.
The Blackhall Place bridge is being designed by Santiago Calatrava, one of the world’s leading bridge-builders, and is being welded together at Harland & Wolff. The Belfast shipyard denied last week that it has clashed with Calatrava over how the bridge should be put together. The difficulties emerged following a visit to the shipyard three weeks ago by architectural students from Queen’s University, Belfast. An engineer involved in the bridge project allegedly told the students that serious mistakes had been made, including welding too-thick plates to too-thin ones.

Using some “unrepeatable phrases” the engineer is said to have blamed Calatrava for the problems. One student on the tour subsequently posted a detailed account of the comments on the internet.

The shipyard was furious when it found out that the visit had been reported and, following representations to Queen’s University, the student’s posting has been taken down from the website of the college’s architectural society.

A spokesman for the shipyard said: “The comments which were attributed to Harland & Wolff have been taken totally out of context by the person who put them on the website.” The shipyard admits there were “minor problems” with the fabrication, but said this was not uncommon on innovative structures. It has no direct relationship with Calatrava, the shipyard said, and none of the delays on the €20m project were its fault.

Following the revelations, however, Dublin city council conceded that there have been difficulties in “effecting the fabrication of the details” of the 41m by 33m bridge, including questions about the compatibility of welding some sections together.

Tim Brick, deputy city engineer, said: “There is no denying that there have been tough nuts to crack on the fabrication side. That’s all part and parcel of doing something like this.

“There have been problems with the fabrication details, and there were questions about the compatibility of welding some sections. This is a detail to be resolved between the designer and contractor on the shop floor.”

All work stopped on the project for some time while the difficulties were being sorted out, but Harland & Wolff denied that this was for three weeks. Asked who was responsible, Brick said he would not attribute blame to any party until the council got to the bottom of the difficulties. “I would have been surprised if there weren’t problems though,” he said. “We have confidence that they will overcome it.”

Calatrava, a Spanish architect and engineer, has designed dozens of flamboyant bridges throughout the world, the most spectacular being one across the Guadalquivir in Seville. Some rivals think Calatrava just likes to show off, and invariably his designs are intricate and complicated.

“The Blackhall bridge is very difficult to build,” said one source involved in the project. “That does not mean it is not buildable. The people who have to fabricate these bridges just sometimes wish that Caltrava would make things easier for them.” Dublin city council said last week that it was very happy with his work.

Apart from the fabrication difficulties, the Blackhall bridge is also being held up by what Brick described as “nasty foundation problems”. Due to be finished this spring, the Liffey bridge will not now be completed until October.

The four lane bridge, linking Ellis Quay to Usher’s Island, is intended to carry up to 2,000 cars an hour and aims to distribute north-south city centre traffic more efficiently. The main corridor for such traffic, down O’Connell Street, will be severely restricted when the street is upgraded.

Constructing Dublin bridges has offered a new lease of life to financially troubled Harland & Wolff, making last week’s controversy all the more embarrassing for the Belfast company.

The shipyard was subcontracted by Irishenco, an engineering firm, to fabricate the Blackhall bridge and to repair the Ha’penny bridge last year.

It is also hoping to get the contract to build another north-south link, the Macken Street bridge. Calatrava has also been commissioned by Dublin city council for this project, due to be completed by 2005.

Calatrava’s office in Zurich was unable to provide a spokesman to discuss Blackhall bridge last week. Irishenco said it and the designer were “working together and things are on target and on course”.

Dear Chas C

Many thanks for livening up what has been a particularly dull and unenlightening discussion site.

I have particularly enjoyed the edifying spectacle of an eminent ‘Director of Projects’ such as yourself using the sledgehammer of legal threat to crack the particular nut referred to in previous correspondence.

Incidentally – before we all start reaching for our legal handbooks – on whose part do you act as Director of Projects ? secondly I trust that you have the authority necessary to make such legal threats – thirdly would you care to comment on the Sunday Times Posting of 21 April.

Finally – notwithstanding the threat of legal action with ensuing dire consequences for all concerned – perhaps you might care to advise on how exactly the comments by a clearly unqualified and unexpert person can possibly have ‘potential contractual consequences’.

Finally, perhaps you might care to comment on the issues which appear to have never been properly addressed in respect of this bridge – namely the suitability of its design in respect of its location – the degree to which the structure might be regarded as visually intrusive – blocking views to the east and west of the river – Is it true that its design supercedes one prepared by Dublin City Councils Engineers Department which recommended a flat profile which would not have had such onerous implications??.

I ask these questions merely as an inexpert person – a stranger to all matters of bridge design – who simply cannot understand why it is that the proposed bridge – given the narrow width of the river – has such an apparently elaborate and high profile – if it were possible to erect a flat bed option of minimal visual intrusion.

Yours etc….

[This message has been edited by James (edited 21 April 2002).]

What is interesting is that a minor piece of information on two very niche and unknown websites can develop because of legal action into a story worthy of the Sunday Times. I think John Burns is actually registered to post here, but I imagine if HW hadnt complained, this piece of information would have simply faded from view.

A lesson to everyone that sometimes the legal approach creats bigger problems.

That’s actually a very satisfactory resolution to this matter. And I presume this means we can all discuss it freely again (damn them lawya’s and their medlin’).

But it’s a but of a shame that archeire didn’t get a proper plug out of it.

fjp

Actually I’m not too disappointed, its hard enough to get information out of architects, but if they though we were a conduit for confidential information it would be so much harder.

I assume we can continue to discuss everything bar the information Darren niavely divulged. If I hear otherwise in this mornings post I’ll let you all know.

And you know whats really funny…

HW wanted this swept under the carpet so they leaned on Darren

this created a story for John Burns so it was in the Sunday Times

Now I have a mailinglist (2300 subscribers) with the news stories, so it goes in it.

There are a few american based general architecture news mailinglists who are subscribed and it will end up on their mailshots this afternoon…..

And the circle continues….

HW should have stayed quiet

Yep – as someone who works in marketing/PR I’d have to say they blew it on this one!

Back to the bridge, over the weekend there was a trailer parked on Victoria Quay with what looked like a segment of the pedestrain section sitting on it…. Hasnt been any movment on-site for at least the last few weeks so it looks like they’d delivered some more pieces.

Any further progress on this
Have not been down that direction for a bit

……..it’s still the same……. nothing happening

Anyone see the social housing they have built in this locality…..Blackhall Place/Queen Street.
I think they are demolishing the old flats and are building these Lego style contemporary townhouses instead.
Pinkish terracotta in colour they look kinda good….well providing that the whole area is upgraded too in a similar style to set them off.
It would be good if someone could get a photo of them

I think they are going to refurb the flats there as well

See the attached photo or Shay Cleary Architects site http://www.sca.ie

Sections of the new bridge are going to be winched into place from Saturday Sept 14 to Thursday 19 from the two opposing quays. Dublin City Council still say it will be finished by end of year, despite previous postings here.

…..end of what year? ………2010 …by the rate that they are going at the moment……

Anyone see those new flats….. aka social housing appartments for the public, that they are building in Bridgefort Street…….
Reddish/Brown Brick……..and kinda auld/nostalgic/pastiche looking.

I saw this morning that more sections have been put in place ….it will look lovely……I wish they’d do something about the surrounding areas…….the house where Joyce’s short story The Dead (re… Dubliners) is set is still left derelict…….I thought heritage properties were going to revamp it……and as for Bargaintown’s establishments ..what a ramshackle disgrace……..I’d sue them if I were the Dub Council for the condition of their properties.

Can’t help but notice that Blackhall Place Bridge is very stumpy compared to what I’d thought. Looks nice but is much lower in height that what the original plans would led me to have believed.
According to DCC, they’re hoping to officially open it in January 6, which is the day that Joyce’s the Dead takes place on. Don’t know whether they’ll meet that deadline but it will be close.
Also, tenders for Macken St Bridge due to be advertised around end of this year with construction to begin middle of next Summer.
PS – Have a look at http://www.calatrava.com and see the Mercia bridges and then the Irish bridges – spot the difference.

I thought that too. It looks far to wide for it’s height. Dublin, city of the stump.

Good point kefu. Took me a while to find them though, so for the lazy…

Blackhall:
http://www.calatrava.com/1/BRIDGES/59.html

Macken:
http://www.calatrava.com/1/BRIDGES/58.html

Murcia:
http://www.calatrava.com/1/BRIDGES/41.html

They’re the exact same images on Macken and Murcia but if you look at Murcia the image appears squeezed – wrong specified pixel width….. but also the Murcia bridge is half the length of the Macken Street bridge – these factors suggest to me that the wrong image has been inserted…

of course i could be wrong..

Wouldnt it be gas if it was the same bridge…could you imagine the embarrassment!

Wow – design by Xerox

apparently the two bridges in Spain HAVE been built but I’ve not been able to find any on the Web so far.

Actually, I think I’ve just found one of them.

This looks like Blackhall Place Bridge:

http://www.inn.it/wellness/arredourbano/MURCIA/ponte1.jpg

Here’s the main page if anyone understands Spanish – http://www.inn.it/wellness/arredourbano/MURCIA/NuovaMurcia.htm

Speaking of buildings that look like other buildings (just in case anyone is interested). I noticed this one a good while ago. When I first saw National Gallery extension, I thought to myself that this looks extremely familiar. After a couple of months, I realised it bears a strong resemblance to Museum of Contemporary Art in Barcelona.
http://www.arcspace.com/kk_ann/2001_12_17/

Hogwash

well that obviously just a case of the web guy getting the pictures mixed up… can happen to anyone !!

one of the few pictures to give a true impression of the Blackhall bridge:

nice background setting !!!

The surrounding environment is in a disgraceful condition…..look at house where James Joyces short story the Dead is set. This was supposed to get a make over by Heritage Properties a couple of years ago. Look at the condition of the other Georgian buildings …..one is used as a mechanics garage ……(only in Ireland I suppose)

Its a cityscape on a Haussmann scale! And you can just make out those more recent des res’s on either side of Blackhall Place.
Still I suppose the bridge will act as a catalyst to improvements in the area.

Aye……….but the ‘Des Res’ that are already there are not of a high design standard……morelike cannon fodder…….. aka infill………aka throw up any old shit but cram as much cramped appartments into a space and give it a fancy name like Viking Harbour or Clipper Court………..as in where are An Taisce and the Green Party to complain when it really matters most…….(they only focus on high profile schemes for publicity…….aka shallow people)

The photomontage from Blackhall place is a bit deceptive
The built arches are quite significantly heavier in reality

can’t wait to see the built version of the bridge… it is after all a big change from existing bridges on the liffey, i.e. a tied arch with its structure above road level… but considering the backdrop i suppose it is good to have something ‘lift’ the area.

i presume as with all this bridges it has been painted white… will be interesting to see how long it takes to turn black from all the traffic on the quays !!

getting back for a moment to similar bridges, this bridge by calatrava have a very similar concept to the macken st bridge…

http://www.construir.com/Econsult/Construr/Nro63/document/puente.htm

You should read back on some of the previous posts brunel…its the same bridge! Quite amusing really. I wonder how much Calatrava was paid for the commission? Would it have been as much if the city council were aware the Macken bridge is a copy. Maybe they were….?

Also wouldnt it be interestiing to see a comparison of the costs of each construction…we’ll have to wait until our one goes the standard 50% over cost of course.

Hmmm surely I am too young to be so cynical

Well the photographs of the two bridge models and surroundings on Calatrava’s site are EXACTLY the same – hence there was obviously an error on the part of the web administrator.

I agree totally that the concepts are indeed similar, however the two spans are much different, around 120 m for Macken and over half this for the Spanish version, hence the two bridges will inevitably be different.

The proposal for Macken St, i.e. a 120m span cable stay bridge swivelling about it base is very complex, and I am sure that the cost of such an arrangement will prove to be relatively high… lets hope the Corpo can afford it !!

It should be noted however that the link I gave was actually to a bridge that has been built in Argentina !! however the possibilities for different bridge forms is somewhat limited, hence it is inevitable that certain design concepts will be used again. This does not detract from the bridge, as long the bridge is suited to its location.

A look at the link below illustrates the more ‘flamboyant’ cable stay bridges built recently… and shows that the number of possibilities is limited…

http://www.launidad.org.mx/galeria.htm

Note the above link has quite a few images so may take a little while to load !!

I could be wrong but… didn’t Calatrava say on one of his visits over here that the Harp on the back of one of our coins helped to ‘inspire’ his design of the Macken St. bridge.
Maybe he was half telling the truth – the harp inspired him to pick theat particular standard type of bridge from his portfolio?!

There is a Calatrava bridge in Buenos Aires that looks a LOT like the Macken street. There are a few small differences….

ok, not as similar as I first thought, it is a swinging bridge, except that the pylon is straight instead of curved. Look for Puerto Madero footbridge.

I recall Calatrava losing a significant international competition and one of the judges saying that he was now involved in ‘design by numbers’. I think there is a significant element of that with his work, even though I do still think both bridges will be very attractive.
I also think it’s very questionable the fact that Dublin City Council commissioned him to do two bridges, rather than have a competition. Like with anything, I think direct commissions are an excuse for laziness because you’ve no reason to stretch yourself, when you’ve already got the job.

Well the corpo have to be complemented for going for something different for Dublin (i.e. different from the existing)… however just because calatrava is ‘famous’ does not necessarily guarantee original and signature bridges… and as we have seen the two bridges for Dublin with not be signatures in the way the Alamillo bridge is for Seville. it is worth noting that when he received this commission that he only had one bridge of note, Bac le Roda in Barcelona, built so the commissioners went out on somewhat of a limb.

A design competition probably would have been better and given local and lesser known designers a chance.

Still i thought the idea of the harp was pretty cool… pity is isn’t unique to Dublin…

Calatrava is a good guy……..his designs are quite beautiful ….even if they have become formulaic……but in years to come we will be able to boast that we have two Calatrava bridges in Dublin. We cannot do that now regarding notable architects/engineers of the past…..well bar the odd one or two. Would’nt it be great if we could boast today that we had an Isambard Kingdom Brunel bridge spanning the Shannon………….and a Charles Rennie Macintosh……and a Corbusier….and a Mies Van der Rohe…….etc, etc……..it’s what makes cities of note.

I don’t think that just by having a work by a famed architect (in this case Calatrava), it necessarily puts the city on the map.
I think you actually have to have a signature work and an original for it to be of any great worth.
In future years, when Calatrava’s great buildings are featured and discussed, it will be the bridges in Seville and Bilbao, the railway station in Lyon, the opera house and so on that will be mentioned, not the two bridges in Dublin.
For example, I think the Spire will be a genuine landmark as would Libeskind’s plans for Dun Laoghaire, if built. They are originals, which are designed with their location in mind and not just expediency.

is it just me or does the location of this bridge make absolutley no sense at all.

I could at a stretch understand if it was in the location where Mellowes bridge is, with Queens Street and Bridgefoot Street leading onto it, but it strikes me as being at odds with the T junction with Ushers Island.

Its primary function, which appears to change frequently, will be to facilitate the buses, (37, 39) that go up Manor Street, which currently go up to the next bridge to turn.
It will also serve to disperse traffic bound for the Chapelizod bypass better, or so say Dublin City Council.

Ah, I presume this means that Blackhall Place will be be a 2 way system.

Does anyone know if the scaffolding has come off it yet? I’m too lazy to go and see if it’s still just a building site.

Very visible now okay, was passing it last week one night sans camera. I’ll call down to it tomorrow morning.

Does anyone have any idea when this will be finished?

“Never in a month of Sundays…….”

funny…

its a famine relief project

Originally posted by Paul Clerkin
its a famine relief project

The economy isn’t that bad (yet!)

I think the bridge would look better if the arches were higher.

I’m surprised it looks so well with the low arches. I was down there during the week and I was very impressed – a great (unfinished) job.

It would look better if it were finished. I dont really liek it anyway it seems unoriginal, too much like that bridge in newcastle. even similar to the footbridge in London.

unoriginality (or rather re-using designs) is now commonplace in dublin. As has been discussed before on this site; blackhall bridge and macken st. bridge (calatrava designs) are both copies of earlier bridges in europe…..i just wonder how much dr calatrava receives for such laziness………(this is not an attack on the bridge design).

Are there plans to demolish the buildings on the South side of the bridge and create a through route – or are drivers obliged to turn off coming fromthe Law society???

Cost over runs! Never!

It seems if there is one thing that can be guaranteed in today dog-eat-dog, capitalist utopia its ‘construction difficulties’.

Mind you I dont think the cost of a project almost quadrupling is too much to worry about…after all we are one of the world richest countries, aren’t we Charlie?

Originally posted by rperse
unoriginality (or rather re-using designs) is now commonplace in dublin. As has been discussed before on this site; blackhall bridge and macken st. bridge (calatrava designs) are both copies of earlier bridges in europe…..i just wonder how much dr calatrava receives for such laziness………(this is not an attack on the bridge design).

This is an attack on the bridge design…..three words…..awful, awful, awful.

I’ve seen the designers bridge in Seville. It looks great – the bridge itself but also and equally important, the setting.

The Blackhall Place bridge is okay – I wouldn’t be mad about it. But the surrounding dull early 1990’s apartments does nothing to enhance the bridge and I’m afriad that on its own, its not that amazing (the designer has versions of this bridge in quite a few places and what make them, from what I’ve seen in photos and in person, is the back-drop).

Plus, its not worth EUR20 million (which is what the Irish Times are saying its going to end up costing)!

3 years to build this!

Stephen C, I totally agree, it is very suspicious that nothing ever gets finished on time or on BUDGET!

Penalty clauses should be the order of the day.

Add to that the fact that the bridge is a copy of another in Spain…so its not as if it hasn’t already been built! i.e. design hitches, unforeseen contruction problems etc.

The glass panels on the side of the footpaths will meet a smashing fate, I suspect…

I think the bridge looks “stupid”. An awkward addition to an historic location. Can’t see it lasting….

Okay so bridge isn’t all that original but I thought that it looked better than I expected. Especially in a 3/4 view where you can see the ‘hoops’ splayed.

Suprisingly it looks quite well from outside Walshes of Stoneybatter.. looking down the street to the river.

What are the least attractive/ugliest bridges across the river ?
The Matt Talbot memorial bridge or the
toll-bridge ?

Is the awful toll-bridge ever going to be replaced ? Do the owners of the thing ever carry out any maintenance work on it, it looks and feels unsafe.

See according the Times recently that the original cost of this bridge was about 5 to 6 million……but it has run up to 20 million now. Someone somewhere is having a laugh. Just another example of the Rip-Off Culture.

What a rip off shit hole Ireland is …..everyone is out to rob you…..from the government to the publicans. What these c**nts do with all their money is beyond me …they certainly don’t spend it publicly either the tight fisted selfish robbing b*****ds. Shame on them all.

The invest it in the poor people of the Cayman Islands GregF and buy Charvet shirts and each in Bang! Its called philanthropy!

Kind of related. I was talking to some visitors on Saturday and they all agreed, that Ireland is a complete rip-off place. They say the prices don’t justify the dreadful lack of infrastructure or quality. Suppose, if you pay Swiss prices, you expect Swiss standards!!! They were amazed that the roads are not properly maintained or EVEN signposted!

They also queried whether inaction from the top was because people at the top are wrapped up in the whole thing..

I wanted to hide, and to think tourists bring in €7 billion to the economy every year……..

The fleecing has got to stop, projects have to be finished on time and on budget or we are seriously going to end up back in the 1980s.

Interestingly. Harland and Wolf, who were partly involved in this said they finished on time and budget. Is it impossible for people down here to do the same?

So if Harland and Wolf finished the construction work on time and within budget, who the hell is getting the extra millions?

Well if it takes one man to dig and two to watch…

Back to the bridge… well bridges. Was the hay’panny bridge orininaly white? I liked it black and the blackhall place bridge how long will it remian white, how long will the class remain clean/intact? I thinks its a beautiful bridge but i dont think its place is in Dublin, As for the price, well from 5m to 20m need i say more. were suposed to be earning more money than ever but i makes no difference beacuse everything costs 2,3 and 4 times as much. If i wasn’t irish i certainly wouldnt come here on holiday!

I must first state that I generally am a fan of Calatava and his wonderful work world wide… however I really think that he has got it wrong in Blackhall place. Big time.

It is far to dominearing for this part of the city. The span is only 40m at this point, and the arch ribs rise to 8.5m – 9m in height. The bridge looks wounderful if you were to delete the surrounding environment. The platform itself is sleek and slender. However at its present location it looks redicilious! It bears no relation to the surrounding city scape. I have a strong suspicision that Calatava and co never even visited the site. When approaching the bridge form either the Phenoix Park or from the city center the arch ribs stick out like a sore thumb restricting the view down the river. None of the other bridges along this narrow stretch of the river are structured in such a way. I was genuinely shocked when I discovered Calatava was behind this project.

I understand the bridge is required to take four lanes of traffic and that this may be a efficiant way to deal with it structurally, but there are many solutions to every problem. In my eyes this is certainly not one of them.

Wounderfully designed as a single ellement… disaster as the collective whole, in its location.

What do you guys think? Is this just Dublin CC opening its arms to an architect of such high esteem that they fail to look at what exactly the finnished product will look like, as long as his work is included in their city, adding some kind of a feeling of architectural achivement, up there with the big boys on a smaller scale!?

You decide. I for one have.

I agree – Most of the bridges over the Liffey have the structural elements below – this is a pile on the virtual passage that runs along the quays and over the river.

The reason I think it might look out of place is that alot of what was built in the area around it is either falling down, or is poorly designed drab post-modern tripe (apartment blocks) from the early 90’s. I think we should maybe give it some time before making a final judgement. One worry that I would have about it would be the re-enforced glass pedestrian walkways. How long will they last?

i think the colour may be part of the obtrusive nature of the project.

I know that the “brilliant white” they have used on the bridge may look great in a hot bright climate, but here in dublin, it can be too harsh and really doesn’t weather that well.

what would people think of a softer colour?

What about off-white?…or even heading into the darker blue-greys perhaps?

I think it’s great and I love the way the footpath and cycle lane section is seperated by the construction from the traffic area. I like the way the path curves and I hope the glass bits are vandal proof.
If you were to go off-white you could match the ha’penny bridge. I like the whitye at the moment though.

With regards to Phil and the fact that it may look poor as a result of the poorly designes apartment blocks which surround the bridge… Phil I agree, the apartment blocks around this area are of a very poor design quality for the most part, nothing special. However this is no excuse to just come along and plant a bridge which dose not consider the surrounding environment.

Yes I agree with Iuxta, now that the thing is in place the only solution is to soften it up to the city, blend it in. Ireland is not hot bright climate, so get rid of the bright white.

Again with the risk of repeating my self, I think the bridge is wonderful as a single element, supberbly designed… but not for this site. Here it is grotesquely obstructive and does nothing for the area.

It will discolour over time i’d imagine. I still dont like it though.

Any pix available?

If you go to google.com and type in “Blackhall Place Bridge” you will find some pics of the bridge. However the bridge looks rather well in them. They do my argument no justice. Go have a look at the bridge for your self in the flesh. You will be surprised by the contrast of the pictures, some of which are on Calatravas web site ( http://www.calatrava.com ) and make the bridge appear rather well, and the bridge in reality. Disaster!

Yeah I’d have to agree with Whatsup on this one. Bares no relation to the city at all. Its seems Calatrava is sticking to his design principles on this on has not even bothered to think of the visual impliactions of this project. Quite surprised actually that not more people are voiceing their opinion on this. It so foreign looking its scary the planners aloud this to come to fruitation. Awful.

I bet if the surrounding areas were improved and substantial buildings were built including the refurbishment of the georgian house where Joyce’s novel the Dead is set ….the bridge would’nt look obtrusive…..but would blend with its new environs.
Anyone ever do a spot of decorating where you do one room up and it makes a joining room look shoddy. This whole area of the city needs a total revamp. The bridge could be a great focal point and feature especially lit up at night. Think about it.

Realistically the bridge is wholly out of place. The whole north side of the quays have taken their shape already for what will be the foreseeable future with apartment buildings with drab and poor exteriors. The south side is the only area left to redevelop but I can’t see anything that can be done there lessening the intrusive nature of this bridge. Perhaps it looked good for where it was originally designed – namly Murcia in southern Spain – but here it really is a sore thumb and a vain attempt at doing something ‘special’ for the sake of it rather than for the sake of the local surroundings.

It is a shame that it does block the up and down river views here in what is a fairly linear riverscape.

I agree with GregF. hopefully the bridge will kick start something in that area. Why do people always have to give the whole “out of place” argument when something even slightly imaginative and original is built in our cities? As I said earlier I think it is the surroundings which are the problem, not the bridge.

Phil… there is nothing imaginative about this bridge in its current location. Sorry. As Zap stated it was originally designed Murcia in southern Spain and was adapted for Dublin. Two very different environments.

Secondly, I take GregF’s point that an improvement in the area could improve the manner in which the bridge sits in the landscape. It may act as an incentive for improvements to begin.

However realistly this is not going to happen. It would cost huge amounts of money which I cannot see the government willing to spend.

Lastly, with regards to the fact that Phil thinks it the surroundings that are the problem, not the bridge I think we all agree the surrounding street scape it not of the best quality. That is irrelevent. You don’t still go ahead and say f**k it i’m still going forward with the project dispite the obstructive nature it has on the city, because it in itself is a supurbly designed bridge. Get real.

Although many people think that the Blackhall Place Bridge in Dublin is an exact copy of the Hospital Bridge Murcia, it is in fact not. The confusion arose, on the Calatrava website, from the use of the same photo of the Macken Street Bridge model as on the Murcia page. This, I think, was an honest mistake and the bridges are not the same. More importantly though is that people then looked at the photo of another model in Murcia at the bottom of the same page and presumed it to look exactly like the one to be put in Blackhall place. If you look closely at the bottom photo and read what it says about the bridges I think it shows that they are completely different in their design.
“River Segura. Triple bridge, inclined-arch vehicle decks and free spanning pedestrian deck. Steel arch. Total length and maximum span 54 m. Depth of arches 11 m.”
A triple bridge literally means that the bridge comprises of three separate spanning sections which are built side by side.
http://www.calatrava.com/1/BRIDGES/41.html

I also think that it is not a case of something just being plonked there for the sake of it. The bridge is forming the function of rediverting (or so it is hoped) traffic from O’Connell street. It might be the case with a building or a monument which was just placed somewhere out of place.

Here’s the Calatrave web pages to the bridges in Dublin and Murcia:

Blackhall Place

Hospital Bridge, Murcia

The page about the bridge in Murcia is confusing, since the first few pictures are of the Macken St. Bridge in Dublin. Scroll down and you see the Blackhall place bridge in Dublin… oh wait; no you don’t. The first pictures are in there by mistake but the second pictures are there correctly. The “triple bridge” bit is because the two pedestrian walkways are suspended either side of the road bridge.

However, the company is not that unethical. Here’s a photo of the Hospital Bridge in Murcia:

http://www.geocities.com/CapeCanaveral/Galaxy/2208/hospital.html

Since Geocities is so bad, I’ve attached the picture as well.

So it looks like the bridge was designed for Murcia, lost the competition and was adapted for Dublin.

I am sorry but I do not agree that the Murcia bridge was adapted for Blackhall Place. At the risk of repeating myself, the bottom bridge on the Murcia page from the Calatrava website looks very different to the Blackhall place bridge. As well as it being a “triple bridge” there seems to be more arches at different angles to each other and column sticking up in the middle of the central bridge.

I see that some scaffolding has gone up around the Georgian building where Joyce’s short storey The Dead is set which is just across the way. Are they at long last finally going to restore this building. This area is an absolute eyesore.

I live right beside the bridge and have lived in anticipation (and noise!) since the construction started.

I do agree that it “stands out”, rather than looks out of place. But the other night, they had the lights on for a while. They are VERY bright !. If you think it is eye-catching now, wait till you see it lit up (you will probably need sunglasses).

On the subject of lighting, does anybody else think it is terrible that the feature lighting on the other bridges is falling into disrepair and is switched off far too early. Sometimes the bridges are in darkness as early as midnight.

They’ve been let go to the dogs those poor bridges! As I have mentioned previously the Millennium Bridge is already in need of repair and its only 3 years old!

Not that all that green and orange looked good in the first place…

yep, i agree about the lighting on the bridges, and who picked those colours? green and orange look awful, very naff….

I think blue would have looked much better under the the arches and then a clear white light for the outside faces of the bridges.

Its an utter farce!

Read page one of this web page and then read this. Sue, for one, will be watching the outcome of this case with interest:

In the Courts
Engineering firm seeks €6.4m for bridge work.
226 words
16 October 2007
Irish Times
8
English
(c) 2007, The Irish Times.

A €6.4 million dispute between an engineering company and Dublin City Council over work on the James Joyce Bridge in Dublin has come before the Commercial Court.

Carillion Irishenco is claiming €6.4 million for additional costs which it claims to have incurred in steelwork fabrication carried out on the bridge near Blackhall Place.

The claim was rejected by the council and went to arbitration. The arbitrator decided on July 31st, 2007, that Carillion was not entitled to extra costs.

The James Joyce Bridge was designed by Santiago Calatrava Valls. Engineering firm Roughan O’Donovan was appointed consulting engineers, and Carillion Irishenco in March 2001 entered into a contract with the council to construct the bridge, the court was told in documents presented yesterday to Mr Justice Peter Kelly.

Carillion subcontracted the steelwork fabrication and erection to Harland and Wolff Heavy Industries Ltd. Carillion claims that, during the network fabrication work, Harland and Wolff experienced “significant difficulties” in effecting welds to a cruciform joint and refused to proceed until it received an instruction from the engineer amending the design.
An alternative design was agreed, and instructions were issued by the engineer for Carillion Irishenco to proceed. Carillion’s claim is for the “significant additional costs” incurred in connection with the extra steel fabrication work.

I see 2 panels of glass on the bridge have been shattered a long time (for well over a year). Neglect by the DCC has already set in, probably due to the court proceedings.