Beamish

should definitely be a tourist money spinner a la the carlsberg factory in copenhagen, theres not much there and its not the greatest display at all, few jazzy boards and photos and 2 free pints at the end but its a decent earner for copenhagen i’d say

I’d like to see some form of brewing remain on the site too.

I’d also like to see the old warehousing buildings that you can see from Crosse’s Green incorporated into whatever goes in there. A lot has been spoken about the Counting House, but I reckon those are some of the more interesting examples of 19th century industrial architecture still around in Ireland. By all means reorganise them inside, but don’t demolish them.

The site itself probably needs to see some level of caution for two reasons. One is the iconic view up the river towards St Finn barre’s. This would probably preclude any development that is too tall coming right up to the river. The second reason is that the presence of portions of the old city wall within the Beamish site will probably keep some sections of the site unavailable for development.

I think a footbridge and walkway to Crosse’s Green would be useful. South Gate Bridge to Clarke’s Bridge is probably as long a stretch of the South Channel in the City Centre that you’ll find without a bridge over it and provision of a walking route could help revitalise both areas. Maybe we could go for a radical departure and incorporate a dedicated cycle lane too. That would probably have to go to in front of the old Mill Business Centre site. The only other open route would involve taking some of the boatyard that’s down there and I’d prefer to not do that as that boatyard is one of the last remaining quirks to be seen in Cork City Centre.

In terms of general usage, I’d tend towards entertainment/culture/food and drink usage. Sort of like Temple Bar without the bad parts.

Given its size and central location, determining the future of the Beamish site is probably the most important development decision confronting the city after the South Docklands. A local area plan for the South Main St area needs to be completed ASAP.

ee, who actually owns the site?

I was wandering around the area today and looking at the site from all angles confirmed what I’d love to see there. A park. This city needs more green space. Bishop Lucey park is too small and often with the crowd it attracts is not too welcoming. Fitzgeralds park is too far out of the city centre.

I’d like to see the Counting House used for some kind of cultural/municipal purpose… as an arts venue or a beer museum or whatever. Keeping brewing on the site is a nice notion but is it at all realistic?

With the exception of the Counting House and the older waterside buildings on the western edge of the site (I think jungle was referring to the same buildings), I’d like to see the rest of the site cleared and landscaped as a new city park. A new oasis of calm (pardon the lazy cliche) in the city centre.

A public walkway along the river’s edge would of course be essential in any redevelopment of the site, and a new bridge as described above by jungle would increase accessibility and open up the area. I’m not sure though whether I’d favour a continuation of the new boardwalk (almost completed) by the Grand Parade or a more natural river bank at this site.

So what’s the likelihood of the city council buying the site and making it into a park?

http://www.landschaftspark.de/en/home/index.php

An alternative to clearing the site…

@bosco wrote:

I was wandering around the area today and looking at the site from all angles confirmed what I’d love to see there. A park. This city needs more green space. Bishop Lucey park is too small and often with the crowd it attracts is not too welcoming. Fitzgeralds park is too far out of the city centre.

Funnily enough, I thought the same. Think I even posted it a few months back (nah..nah.. beat you to it!).

A public ‘green’ walkway along the river around the bend – either with access to Hanover St. or with a pedestrian bridge across to Crosses Green – would be great. If there is development on the rear of the site, hopefully it can be kept back from the river as much as possible.

Hate to bring a note of pessimism to the thread….but the most likely senario for the site is a pack-em-in developer getting their hands on it and arguing for a reduction in green space due to the fact they ‘have’ to keep the main building. I would have no faith in the City Council’s ability to reign in one of the usual suspects.

Maybe Heineken should hold a competition for a combined design / bid for the betterment of the city – they need all the good PR they can get.

A lot of developers will be put off by nature of the site. Access will be a serious issue and no chance I’d say of putting underground parking on it.

yeah i suppose flooding risk too mightnt be the most attractive, i’d say theres a few archaeologists chomping at the bit to get into that site, its in the older part of the city

@corkblow-in wrote:

Hate to bring a note of pessimism to the thread

Don’t worry, I think we’re all realists. There were a few buildings knocked in recent years which lead us to think “wow, how wonderful it would be for the city if we had a park right there in the city centre”, but knowing there’s a better chance of nuclear waste dump than a park there! 😉

@Pug wrote:

yeah i suppose flooding risk too mightnt be the most attractive, i’d say theres a few archaeologists chomping at the bit to get into that site, its in the older part of the city

Would flooding be an issue? Look at how far below the water level the Clarion carpark went.

@who_me wrote:

Would flooding be an issue? Look at how far below the water level the Clarion carpark went.

i’m only guessing given that the river winds around the site. I’m sure the new fangled modern engineering could get around it. Then they could put in a basement with transparent walls with all the viking longboats and archaeology under the site viewable. Few skeletons drinking a pint of beamish maybe for effect….

If you look at the Draft City Development Plan, an area of public open space is proposed for the southern end of the site, by the quay (where the car park is now)

getting this to actually happen is another question…

This part of the city won’t be recognisable in 10 years with the south main street car park also proposed to be developed (if the city council have anything to do with it) and the library site beside it.

I’m also in total agreement with the micro-brewery idea. there isn’t a massive amount of attractions for tourists in the city as it is, so a fun day out at beamish’s with a couple of complimentary pints at the end would be a real money spinner. plus they could demonstrate the 17th/18th century brewing process with more free samples. i know i’d go….possibly every day.

Heritage group to lead campaign for Beamish site
18 December 2008

By Eoin English
HERITAGE campaigners are planning to fight to save the home of Ireland’s oldest brewery, Beamish & Crawford in Cork.
The National Conservation and Heritage Group, which helped persuade brewing giants Diageo to develop the Guinness Storehouse as a tourist attraction, has confirmed it will mount a similar campaign to save Cork’s historic South Gate brewery site.

The group’s chairman, Dublin-based Damien Cassidy, said the site, in the heart of Cork’s historic core and with its striking mock-Tudor frontage, has huge tourism potential. The brewery, founded in Cork in 1792, is to close next March with the loss of 120 jobs.

The decision was announced last month after months of speculation about its future following the Competition Authority’s green light for its takeover by Heineken Ireland.

Heineken Ireland said it decided to close Beamish after a “a review of both individual brewing operations with particular focus on capacity, expansion capability and future investment”.

Mr Cassidy, who led a campaign to save Kilmainham Gaol, said he is hoping to form and then lead an apolitical delegation that would seek a meeting with senior Heineken executives in the coming weeks to discuss the Beamish project.

The group held similar meetings with Diageo when the Guinness brewing site in St James’s Gate, Dublin, was facing sale and possible development. The Guinness Storehouse is now Ireland’s top visitor attraction and the world’s third biggest “brand experience”. Last month, it welcomed its millionth visitor since opening in 2000.

Mr Cassidy said he will stress the success of the Storehouse when the delegation meets Heineken executives in coming weeks.

“We will put the case to Heineken to maintain some brewing on the site and save the buildings on cultural and heritage grounds, but most importantly on tourism grounds,” he said.

He said the site is perfectly positioned in a historic part of the city, close to South Gate Bridge and St Fin Barre’s Cathedral.

* The group has invited the public to attend an open meeting at the Flying Enterprise Bar, near the brewery, at 7pm on Saturday.

A Park and Micro Brewery on this site would bring huge benefits to the area and would tie in nicely with a South Parish regeneration.

shouldnt cork city council be all over this?

@Pug wrote:

shouldnt cork city council be all over this?

Just look at the state of Patricks Bridge and the Quay walls + pavements.

They should not be left near those buildings.

Great opportunity for the city in a stunning location.

If this takes 5 years to secure,save & restore to a visitor attraction it will be worth it.

(Cork Independent)
Beamish Tourism Plan a Step Closer

Graham Lynch
glynch@corkindependent.com

HEINEKEN Ireland are to meet with members of the National Conservation & Heritage Group on Thursday, January 15 to discuss proposals for the future use of the Beamish & Crawford Brewery.

NCHG Chairman Damien Cassidy and newly appointed Honorary Secretary Mick Murphy were invited to meet with Directors of Heineken Ireland, following the Dublin-based group’s launch of a campaign to “ensure the safe keeping of the Beamish & Crawford Brewery for current and future generations’.

Green Party election candidate Mick Murphy described the tone of the initial phone call from Heineken as “extremely positive” and said he was confidant that next Thursday’s meeting would bear fruit, and that an appropriate use for this heritage building can be achieved that will suit both the needs of Heineken and the people of Cork and Ireland”.

The NCHG played a pivotal role in persuading Diageo to develop the Guinness Storehouse as a tourist attraction, as well as spearheading the campaign to save Kilmamham Gaol. Dublin, now a hugely successful museum.
The group are confident that the Beamish & o Crawford Brewery, the oldest in the country, can of prove to be just as successful as the Guinness Storehouse, which has become the top visitor attraction in Ireland.

Mr. Murphy says that both he and Damian Cassidy will be stressing this point when they meet with to the Directors of Heineken Ireland.
The group hope that the meeting will pave the way for the maintenance of some brewing on the site, and the saving of the historical building on cultural heritage and tourism grounds.
Cllr. Murphy is also leading a patron campaign on behalf of the NCHG, with well known members of the community, both locally and nationally being asked to support to the cause.
Michael Flatley, Michael O’Leary (Ryanair), Neil Prendeville and U2 are among those to have already been asked to become associated with the campaign to save the Beamish & Crawford site.

@njcork wrote:

I’m also in total agreement with the micro-brewery idea. there isn’t a massive amount of attractions for tourists in the city as it is, so a fun day out at beamish’s with a couple of complimentary pints at the end would be a real money spinner. plus they could demonstrate the 17th/18th century brewing process with more free samples. i know i’d go….possibly every day.

I actually attended the last ever public tour of Beamish and Crawford which took place just before Christmas. The drink was flowing like the river Lee! It was a fitting send off and by the crowds that turned up, I’m convinced a brewery based tourism feature would do very well in this location.

By all accounts the Lord Mayor and City Manager want to see this happen and Heineken do seem to be responding well to the advances. With the current climate, immediate realisation of the development potential of the site will not be possible in the short term, so a tourism feature first followed by appropriate development to the rear might be a good option for Heineken.

It will be a good thing for St. Main Street too, combined with the Library development, the arts development at Christ Church and the Triskel.

:)Red FM News reports that the National Conservation Group were delighted with their meeting with Heineken today as the company confirmed that “an appropriate and sustainable use” would be found for the brewery when it ceases production in March

How about a food hall(s)(just eateries-nothing that will compete with English Market), museum(city culture etc..),cafes, craft shops-blarney woollen mill types, with a part of the brewery(micro-brewery) as the central attraction which will host an annual beer festival !!!

That sounds a little like what happened to the old Brains site in Cardiff, which would have been a similar case of a traditional city centre brewery disappearing. Although they did incorporate apartments into the scheme. Mind you, with the noise from the night-life venues, I’m amazed anyone would want to live in them.

Actually, it could be an opportunity to move the municipal museum from its current out-of-the-way and too small site at FitzGerald’s Park.

move the museum? thats a great idea, you should try and communicate that to that heritage crowd trying to talk to Heineken. A really good idea in fairness, the museum is wasted that little bit away from the city (and if i recall, the opening hours never actually suited the public or anyone who works)

Beamish and Crawford site to be sold in May by Heineken. I wonder will (or have) the efforts of those people who lobbied it to be kept as a heritage area / tourist site pay off? the city council certainly dont seem to have the funds to buy it anyway. If they did I would be wondering why those funds werent invested in an integrated transport system.

According to the newspaper reports, the brewery is to cease production in May (2 months late). This is to be followed by the dismantling and disposal (by sale or otherwise) of plant and equipment, and eventually the sale of the site, perhaps in 18 months time. Wonder what the market will be like in late 2010?

I must say that i am suprised at the stance that Heineken is taking on the Beamish & Crawford site.
Having UCC on board with the National Conservation Group to set up a National research centre on site should be a win win suitation for all?

http://www.corkindependent.com/local-news/local-news/heineken-rule-out-micro%11brewery/

Agreed, Heineken would want to ‘cop-on’ to themselves if they think they can strip the brewery of assets and then dump it on the market without any sort of support for a future public use. Shame on them.

@Baseline Survey wrote:

I used to live around the corner from the Beamish & Crawford brewery for a number of years. When the wind came from the east, the smell from the brewery would be almost unbearable.

I grew up next to Murphy’s Brewery. That smell needs getting used to but certainly isn’t unpleasant.

@Baseline Survey wrote:

Cork’s population has a very high incidence of candida, this is due to the high yeast content in the air from our city breweries and distilleries coupled with the fact that the city is surrounded by hills.

This is hilarious. Yeasts are naturally occurring. Even if you swam in the stuff every day it wouldn’t increase the rates of candida.

@Baseline Survey wrote:

The gigantic silos standing sentry at the city’s historical south gate are an absolute eye sore.

These are no more an eyesore than the silos at the south docks. They’re a part of Cork’s industrial heritage. Any replacement apartments would be much more obtrusive to the views of St. Finbarre’s.

@Baseline Survey wrote:

The water colour in the river Lee is very different downstream of the brewery than it is upstream, the reader can draw their own conclusions here.

This is just not true.

@Baseline Survey wrote:

With sensitivity shown to the more historical components of the brewery, for all of the above reasons I would like to see redevelopment here.

Now, this i can agree with – but with a small micro-brewery in place it could please everyone.

The National Conservation and Heritage Group and UCC have no interest in the silos as far as I am aware.
The proposed micro brewery, national brewing research unit (UCC), and heritage / museum should have no need for the silos.
Remember the slogan O’Brien Crane Hire had on its trucks; ’Where O’Brien Goes, Prosperity Follows’
The same could be said for UCC, if Heineken allowed a brewing research unit as proposed by the NCHG it would attract high-end jobs to the area and as a result would increase the site value.

Absolutely, the silos arrived in the early 90’s as far as I’m aware. Although an integral part of the brewing history, there’s no argument for keeping them. I would question whether UCC has the cash to be splashing round on such a venture at the moment, but It would certainly make sense.

thats the risk of a public post i think, i’m not a referee but radioactive mans probably over the top but thats that persons views. I think the site should be developed into something other than boring residential, i think a little micor brewery/tourist attraction would be brilliant and theres no reason why UCC cant get involved with that, they could use some of their government funding on it.

This site is frequented by people who think they’re all really insightful, but are in fact just good old-fashioned Irish curmudgeons with longer words. Nothing whatsoever that gets said here, or gets built in Ireland, is free from criticism. It’s a serious national problem.

My views are as insightful and/or as full of bullsh*t as anybody else’s on this discussion board. You don’t have to agree with me (I don’t even agree with myself when I read back some of my old posts), but in answer to your question, yes it is normal to have your posts discussed openly. Its a discussion board and not a blog. The point is to create discussion, not to post one point of view and not to expect to see it challenged, fiercely at times.
I’m robust in my criticism but we all have to be robust in receiving criticism of our points of view.

well, lets get back to the point and when all the local councillors call to your door, ask them what they propose to do with the Beamish site and why they havent been knocking at heneikens door morning noon and night to figure out whats happening and have they engaged Cork Chamber of Commerce to get their network up and active,

the good news is that no one will want to build residential on it with the lack of market thats there at the moment, even o callaghans want to build a private medical facility instead of apartments at the jurys site

Personally, I wouldn’t have a major problem with some residential, commercial or office development on the site, as long as the ‘front-of-house’ was given over to heritage and micro-brewery type functions. The brewery/heritage uses will greatly enhance the marketability of the new developments. What Heineken fail to realise is that there is a solution here where everybody wins!

if i were to advise a potential buyer of the beamish site in terms of its development potential – i would have to mention the serious development constraints as follows;

– protected structures in centre of site afaik – seriously restricts site developemt capacity and redevelopment options overall
– protected views to st finbarrs also constrain scale and site coverage – need to maintain certain key views as per the views and prospects policy in the cdp
– proximity to south gate bridge and historic quayside setting restricts the level of development in taht location
– lack of significant footfall on south main street, poor retail potential, secondary location in retail/commercial terms
-long list of ready-made objections ready to be submitted – the public are sore at heineken’s actions – what is generall yperceived as plundering a key part of the city’s indiustrial and cultural heritage
– archaeology will be a huge issue – under and overground

imo, it is not a particularly good development site but a hugely important urban opportunity for the city – could be exactly what the city centre needs in terms of tourist/cultural/research oppportunities – part of extended food/drink heritage trail – english market – park- brewery link. city should consider purchase of the site (cpo). i honestly think if heineken were to put it on the market tomorrow, it would fail to attract huge interest – too messy.

i actually quite like the tanks – no real conservation interest but very interesting visually at that location

@bunch wrote:

if i were to advise a potential buyer of the beamish site in terms of its development potential – i would have to mention the serious development constraints as follows;

– protected structures in centre of site afaik – seriously restricts site developemt capacity and redevelopment options overall
– protected views to st finbarrs also constrain scale and site coverage – need to maintain certain key views as per the views and prospects policy in the cdp
– proximity to south gate bridge and historic quayside setting restricts the level of development in taht location
– lack of significant footfall on south main street, poor retail potential, secondary location in retail/commercial terms
-long list of ready-made objections ready to be submitted – the public are sore at heineken’s actions – what is generall yperceived as plundering a key part of the city’s indiustrial and cultural heritage
– archaeology will be a huge issue – under and overground

imo, it is not a particularly good development site but a hugely important urban opportunity for the city – could be exactly what the city centre needs in terms of tourist/cultural/research oppportunities – part of extended food/drink heritage trail – english market – park- brewery link. city should consider purchase of the site (cpo). i honestly think if heineken were to put it on the market tomorrow, it would fail to attract huge interest – too messy.

i actually quite like the tanks – no real conservation interest but very interesting visually at that location

I would agree with all of the above, on what grounds could the city cpo it?? Cork really needs something more to attract tourists. The Shandon area has so much potential but has been neglected, I can see the same happening here!

The Shandon area is indeed a disgrace; it is nothing more than a derelict site.
Walked there last week with a group of six tourists from Reno Nevada who were touring Europe.
The World tour guide that they looked up online to plan their itinerary recommended a visit to Cobh Cathedral, Blarney Castle, a tour of Beamish & Crawford / South Gate area, and Shandon.
Beamish & Crawford was closed (thanks Heineken !!) and the dirt and vomit on the streets was disgusting.
The “new” pedestrian areas in the Shandon were a danger to walk on due to sinking and broken pavers.
Thankfully the visit to Cobh and Blarney proved a success.

The city council pumped millions of Euro into the Shandon area over the past 10 years; they may as well flushed the money into our overpriced main drainage system for all the good it did for the area, the words ‘hole’ and ‘black’ spring to mind.

At least one city Councillor who is backing the National Conservation and Heritage Group’s efforts to save Beamish had the balls to insist that measures be put in place to ensure the further cash injection for the Shandon area as passed by CCC last year be used to “get it right this time round” , hope he is proved right?

I for one will boycott Heineken products for as long as they insist on ignoring our heritage.

@kite wrote:

I for one will boycott Heineken products for as long as they insist on ignoring our heritage.

Now, now, lets not get carried away 😀

There’s certainly very strong feelings towards Heineken on this one. I don’t think purchase by the city will help matters. Just take a look at ChristChurch across the road from the brewery…its been closed off for more than a year. Nothing being done, and in my view the security of the building itself is threatened. We were promised a music venue as an addition to the Triskel. In who’s lifetime is this going to emerge??
I don’t want to see Beamish going the same way.

@Radioactiveman wrote:

Now, now, lets not get carried away 😀

There’s certainly very strong feelings towards Heineken on this one. I don’t think purchase by the city will help matters. Just take a look at ChristChurch across the road from the brewery…its been closed off for more than a year. Nothing being done, and in my view the security of the building itself is threatened. We were promised a music venue as an addition to the Triskel. In who’s lifetime is this going to emerge??
I don’t want to see Beamish going the same way.

Point taken; we elect out Councillors, who in turn support any rubbish the city manager proposes…we get what we deserve i suppose?

The Examiner reports today that the fight to save Beamish & Crawford is being taken to Heineken HQ in Amsterdam by the National Conservation & Heritage Group.

Posters to this forum will know from my past posts that I had little time for Mick Murphy and his Communities for Sustainable Development group, but now I have to 😮 admit that he was proved right with regard to apartment development in Bishopstown and other suburban areas of Cork, many of which are lying empty.

I wish him and the NCHG the very best of luck in their efforts to save the Beamish & Crawford brewery.

:(Most of the press report the last day of Beamish & Crawford today.
Feck Heineken NV and their Irish puppets in Murphy’s brewery.
I will never drink a drop of Heineken slop again.

@kite wrote:

:(Most of the press report the last day of Beamish & Crawford today.
Feck Heineken NV and their Irish puppets in Murphy’s brewery.
I will never drink a drop of Heineken slop again.

You better stay away from Amstel, Bulmers, and Strongbow while you’re at it. And of course, you must never attend Oxegen or watch the Heineken Cup. Good Luck!

@rumpelstiltskin wrote:

You better stay away from Amstel, Bulmers, and Strongbow while you’re at it. And of course, you must never attend Oxegen or watch the Heineken Cup. Good Luck!

Ah Jeesus, don’t tell me that those Orange feckers brew Bulmers as well?
Just tried a pint bottle of that and thought i had found a ‘new home’!!

Another new quarter for Cork it appears! Glad to hear there’s some plan for the site in any case.

Dutch courage: Plans for €150m Brewery Quarter

A €150-million Brewery Quarter tourism and cultural investment is planned for the heart of Cork city, on the four-acre site vacated in 2009 by the historic firm Beamish and Crawford.

http://www.examiner.ie/ireland/dutch-courage-plans-for-150m-brewery-quarter-139495.html

[attachment=2:y5q541wh]Brewery Quarter Scale Model.jpg[/attachment:y5q541wh]

[attachment=1:y5q541wh]Night South Gate Bridge CGI.jpg[/attachment:y5q541wh]

[attachment=0:y5q541wh]Counting House Plaza CGI.jpg[/attachment:y5q541wh]

Plans submitted for the development of Beamish & Crawford Brewery, Cork

Got to say that the “counting house” looks like a dollshouse tacked on to the front of that scheme. Really want to see the drawings to judge this better as the renderings are overly slick and cliched – whats the red neon stripe on the river side view?

an events centre doesn’t make any sense on this site.

commercially, i assume it would depend on drawing crowds from the whole munster region. most of these customers will drive there. the site is a disaster to access for cars, and there is nowhere to park. nearby streets such as south main street and barrack street will be overwhelmed.

most importantly, i cannot see how such substantial develop can proceed without destroying the archeology under the site. i’d love to see if there are any reactions to this proposal on any archeology forums.

can we please just have one events centre in the city. o’callaghan applied for permission 2 or 3 weeks ago for his scheme on albert quay. god only knows what is happening to the proposed centre at the atlantic quarter, which is the location and design i prefer

btw, i cannot see the link for attaching photos to posts anymore. does it still exist? i can see the IMG button, but that doesn’t work for my own photos?
i have a photo of the echo’s story on the matter

upload attachment tab is under the main text box

http://issuu.com/tcmeditorial/docs/echofrontpage/1
here is link to tonight’s echo front page.
i think it will expire in 24 hours, as they don’t publish online

Be very interested to see the Council reaction – there’s significant industrial archaeology behind the counting house before even getting underground. And as for the riverside parts – the city development plan gives pretty strict requirements for heights along the river (which this appears to happily ignore) and the pocket park required for the south channel seems to have vanished.

Agree about the location for an events centre too – O’Callaghans seems best located to me – close to bus and rail stations, car parks and road network, as well as giving a further boost to moving towards the Docklands. Where on earth has this come from?

Going by the artist’s impressions I could only call this proposed development an eyesore. Totaly out of character and scale with the area and surrounding the old Counting House with a garish and over-tall bunch of concrete and glass blocks.

Yes, this is a strange concoction of the worst kind of planning. A couple of sticks of trees, which puts paid to any talk of a park. This plan was drawn up as if the boom had never bust.

The design leaves a lot to be desired.

I do think that the site is better for an event centre than O’Callaghan’s proposal though.

It provides better access to bars and restaurants in the city, which should mean an opportunity to keep visitors spending in the city.

Regarding access, there is probably more parking available around this proposal, although the other one is better for the train station and to a lesser extent the bus station. Against that, a lot number of the events would probably attract a significant student audience and the Beamish site is within easy walking distance of UCC and has direct bus services to the CIT area.

lets not lose sight of the positives contained in the proposal;

The main one for me is the continuation of Tuckey Street through the site to connect to Wandesford Quay – this is an excellent urban move that has the potential to re-activate that portion of the river and the city quarter beyond.
there also seems to be a move to keep the commercial activity on the street rather that swallow it up in a shopping mall megalith. The site model shows three to five separate buildings with public streets between.
the proposal seems to embrace it’s riverside position with the inclusion of a short promenade and active river frontage, something other large commercial developments in the city have overlooked (see Merchant’s Quay)
there is talk of retaining brewing and cultural activity on site

all that said, the images also show a disregard for the scale of the built environment, like a fat girl in a clingy dress they’re clearly trying to overload the site with floorspace at the expense of a good fit and the result is unattractive, though to continue the analogy such shoe-horning can be and have been disguised with shiny sequins and/or exceptionally large displays of cleavage/merchandise. in the end, the CCC must play the Maitre’D, and while the big girl in the clingy dress is likely to spend a lot of money in the restaurant, she’s hardly the most desirable clientele…

The masterplans are on display to the public in the Counting House on Wednesday i believe

@Ping Pong wrote:

The masterplans are on display to the public in the Counting House on Wednesday i believe

thats wednesday january 19th

the proposed development will be on display in the Counting House tomorrow

Dean of St. Fin Barre’s reported in today’s Irish Examiner

http://www.irishexaminer.com/ireland/dean-to-challenge-beamish-site-design-142459.html

ps. I wish to agree with posters who feel that this proposal is totally wrong for the Beamish site.
Heineken in Holland spend a lot of time, money and effort to promote the Heineken brewing museum in that country; pity they have total disregard for Irish heritage.

Am quite surprised by Heineken’s attitude to the site here – perhaps head office isn’t involved, being managed and is the baby of the local Irish management.

was talking to the facilitator at the public viewing and the times and days to view in the Counting House are:
Thursday January 20th & Frday January 21st from 12-4pm
Tuesday to Friday of the following week also from 12-4pm

I was at the presentation at the Beamish counting house last night, did not wish to post on the feelings of those present in case my post would not be believed. However the report in tonight’s Evening Echo confirms what I was going to post; the only people I spoke to that were in full favour of the proposal were Heineken and BAM. Every other person I spoke to were expressing anything from ‘some reservations’ to ‘outright shock’ at Heinekens proposal.

The applicants were none too pleased to be told to their faces that the plans were an outrageous attempt to maximise profit to the determent of the city’s heritage. Nor I am sure where they happy that members of the National Conservation and Heritage Group were greeting visitors in a very polite manner at the front gate, outlining their views to invited guests before the guests entered the presentation.

Hardly surprising, I imagine these events tend to self-selecting. Only htose who have a problem with the development could be bothered to attend?? maybe…

What’s the story with the scaffolding and plastic to the left of the main entrance to the counting house? What’s its purpose?

In fairness, the existing buildings surrounding the Counting House don’t exactly do it must justice either! Just about any development would be an improvement.

It’s good to see Tuckey St. being ‘continued’ through the site (another new street in the city centre? That doesn’t happen too often.), and the walkway by the river. The height of the buildings is a bit OTT, and does detract a lot from one of Cork’s signature views – that of the cathedral. I know from having lived on the opposing quay – it’s a very, very popular photo spot. Looking at some of the other previously proposed developments, for the South Main St. car park site, and the site by Crosses Green – not to mention the new Jurys! – it seems like protecting this view doesn’t seem to be much of a priority for many.

It would be great to have something in that area – the whole street has been so run down for decades now.

The scaffolding to the side of the Counting House is a temporary ramp for wheelchair access to the building.
I assume it will be there while the building is open to the public to view the plans.

Thanks Barney.

Some images of the development taken from the planning file. This doesn’t allow me to upload the images directly, so just click on the links.

http://img810.imageshack.us/i/bc1i.png/
http://img43.imageshack.us/i/bc2vd.png/
http://img257.imageshack.us/i/bc3k.jpg/
http://img814.imageshack.us/i/bc4a.jpg/
http://img534.imageshack.us/i/bc5w.jpg/

Thanks for the images.
It looks enormous and out of keeping with the other buildings in the area.
Having said that , the view from Elizabeth Fort does look quite impressive.

There should be a rule against fluffy clouds to deliberately mask bulk in images submitted. This would look very different in reality or in an image against a blue sky; a wolf in sheeps clothing…..

The heads of the planning department should be displayed outside the counting house (like the convicts heads were years ago) if this joke of a development is passed.

Really cannot see the Dean of St. Fin Barres allowing this without a fight on his watch as guardian of the national monument under his care.

Last time going by the Counting House – it like a wheelchair ramp was being added to the steps leading up to the front door of the building. If that’s what it is – it’s great that they’re making the building more accessible, but I’d worry how well that’ll fit in with the rest of the building.

Judging by their proposals, they don’t exactly look like the most subtle and sympathetic of owners.

@Radioactiveman wrote:

Some images of the development taken from the planning file. This doesn’t allow me to upload the images directly, so just click on the links.

http://img810.imageshack.us/i/bc1i.png/
http://img43.imageshack.us/i/bc2vd.png/
http://img257.imageshack.us/i/bc3k.jpg/
http://img814.imageshack.us/i/bc4a.jpg/
http://img534.imageshack.us/i/bc5w.jpg/

thanks
that last image in particular seems really misleading, as the view is looking down on the building so much that it is below the horizon!! where is that camera supposed to be?

they do something similar in the first and second pictures, as they line up the roofline of the new building with roofs in the foreground

the bridge in the 4th and 5th pictures looks interesting. that is about the only positive remark i can make.

Interestingly the fact that the Beamish site is within the OPW urban archaeological survey of Cork, a hell of a lot of excavations will have to be undertaken prior to any development, this has not really been addressed in the initial development plans. The underlying archaeology will inevitably influence the final design/structure-whether foundation piling would be necessary etc.

The proposed development would seem to be the wrong size, in the wrong place, to be used for the wrong reasons. It smacks of all that has been wrong in property development in Ireland for the last decade, shoving as much commercial floorspace into as tight a spot as possible.

Just the traffic implications should rule it out.

This site should be the centre of a heritage trail running from Gaol cross to the UCC Quad, the Honan Chapel, Canty’s field, St FinBarres, Elisabeth Fort, South gate Bridge, Bishop lucey Park & The English Market.

It is absolutely appropriate that an events centre should be in the docklands area. To shoe Horn and events centre in to the Beamish & Crawford site makes no sense.

If treated sensitively it could be the centre of a cultural area deserving of international recognition.

Couldn’t the development of this site be associated with the development of Elisabeth fort on one side and Christ church on the other, anchoring it in a wider cultural/ heritage area? ( A mad idea, but letting the imagination fly – how about a cable car from the walls of elisabeth fort to the site? – I just think more imagination is required – Would a Guggenheim fit there? let’s get some green space at least).

The archaeology & heritage should be respected, – a micro brewery & brewery museum, a museum dedicated to the wine geese, an incubation centre for entrepreneurship, actively using the network of Irish founded vineyards globally to demonstrate the power of Irish entrepreneurial spirit.

It is a jewel in the heart of Cork & I believe it could shine & bring revenues to the City if treated sensitively, imaginatively and with some flair. Let’s aim a bit higher.

+1. Hear, Hear!

Perhaps unsurprisingly, the application has gone for further information

http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/ireland/2011/0608/1224298573770.html

Amazingly, this has been granted.

I must say, I’m surprised.

HI HO HI HO it’s off to ABP we go…

Fantastic that a development looks like going ahead. Terrible that that development is going ahead.

Huge. Bland. Unsuited/unsympathetic to the location.

With large schemes there is a huge danger consent is given on soft terms as local authorities don’t want to be seen to be anti-devleopment and anti-employment in a tough economy. Then development precendent is created and is wheeled out when the market recovers; the case of Ray Burkes exploration licenses in 1993 should not be forgotten; if a consent that under normal circumstances would be refused is granted on ‘stimulus grounds’ the length of the grant must ensure it is commenced within a 3 year timeframe and not used tactitcally when the market recovers. Please appeal this; it is wrong for Cork which other than Merchants Quay has preserved a great City Centre with very few mistakes; Heineken make enough money, I don’t need my dividends increased at the expense of something like this.

Thankfully the National Conservation and Heritage Group have taken this to ABP. :clap:

[attachment=0:1cx6i1mf]1. Beamish factory by crosses green.jpg[/attachment:1cx6i1mf]

The Beamish site contains evidence of brewing traditions going back at least two hundred years. If we flatten the entire place, this will be lost forever. We need smaller-scale, appropriate redevelopment schemes that accentuate the historical and architectural attributes of a place.

I’m very worried about Cork’s indifference to its own architectural heritage. So many endangered sites and so much indifference. It’s very strange.

€150m project gets go-ahead at Beamish site

By Stephen Rogers

Thursday, January 05, 2012

AN BORD Pleanála has given the green light for a €150 million development, including a 6,000-seat event centre, on the site of Ireland’s oldest brewery in Cork city.

The planning appeals board backed Cork City Council’s decision to grant permission for the Heineken Ireland/BAM Property joint project at the Beamish and Crawford site. It has imposed 24 conditions.

The National Conservation and Heritage Group, which opposed the development, has said it will appeal the decision to the European Parliament.

As well as the 11,339sq m event centre, the developers applied to build an eight-screen cinema, two pedestrian bridges, a viewing tower, 46 student apartments with 206 bed spaces, a visitor centre, 10 artists’ studios and various restaurants, shops, bars and galleries.

The whole development was to be spread over seven buildings ranging in height from four to seven storeys.

A decision on whether to grant planning permission had not been expected before February 8 but details of the approval have been published on the board’s website.

The conditions it places upon the developers include the removal of floors from several of the proposed buildings to “preserve views and in the interest of protecting the amenity of adjoining property”.

It also orders the developers to facilitate Cork City Council in “archaeological appraisal of the site, and in preserving, recording or otherwise protecting archaeological materials or features which may exist within it”.

It said this was to conserve the site’s archaeological heritage and to secure the preservation of any remains which may exist there.

It also ordered that the medieval laneways around the site should be commemorated by the insertion of name plaques, which should be submitted for the approval of Cork City Council.

Most of the rest of the conditions were standard requirements in most planning applications.

Damien Cassidy of the National Conservation and Heritage Group said his organisation “half expected” the decision because of the pressure at present to create jobs.

“However, this could have been built in four or five other places,” he said.

“Owen O’Callaghan has an application in for the same thing in a different location,” he said.

Mr O’Callaghan wants to build a €50m development in Albert Quay which would include an event and conference centre with capacity for 5,000 people seated, or 7,500 people standing.

Mr Cassidy welcomed the news that part of the Counting House at the Beamish and Crawford site would be saved, with the developers ordered to submit plans for a museum.

However, he said his organisation would appeal the decision to the European Parliament on the basis that it is a heritage site.

Read more: http://www.examiner.ie/ireland/150m-project-gets-go-ahead-at-beamish-site-179094.html#ixzz1iaQhbK8R

Had time to read the ABP report on their website.
All I can say is…money talks ! :thumbdown:

I think some of the renders actually look reasonably good….apart from the blank stark wall facing the river!! However, a conference centre here would ultimately kill off the proposed coinference venue in the docklands….which has the potential to be a much better site!

The planning application for the concert venue in the docklands was withdrawn on the day ABP granted permission for the Dutch duo of Heineken & BAM.

what’s going on with this development?

I see the one in Albert Quay has now been with ABP for 8 months

8 months.

….

An Bord Pleanala is expected to announce a decision shortly on the Owen O’Callaghan concert venue.
It will then be a case of O’Callaghan and Heineken making submissions to the City Council for public funding. Whoever the Council picks will obviously go ahead with the other presumably being cancelled. O’Callaghan has been more vocal and said he could start work on his before the end of the year if he gets investment from the City Council.
I’d say the Howard Holdings site where the Live at the Marquee concerts take place is a non runner.

http://www.eveningecho.ie/2013/04/23/event-centre-for-city-would-lead-to-160-new-jobs/

@thebig C wrote:

I think some of the renders actually look reasonably good….apart from the blank stark wall facing the river!! However, a conference centre here would ultimately kill off the proposed coinference venue in the docklands….which has the potential to be a much better site!

That’s the thing that galls me. I’ve no problem with an event centre at that location, but a massive, bland wall like that is very poor, particularly in light of the surrounding buildings (the Counting House, the Elizabethan fort, St. Finbarr’s cathedral etc. I assume it’ll also block off the view of St. Finbarr’s from along the South Mall, which would be a real pity. It’s one of the really pretty views in the city centre.

Interesting to see the Government set aside €10m of lotto money in the budget yesterday to help fund the Cork events centre. Accordingly one of the 3 proposals with pp (namely BAM’s Beamish proposal, OCP’s Albery Quay proposal and the former Howard Holdings docklands proposal – now owned by NAMA?) will be going ahead soon I’d have thought.

From today’s IE

http://examiner.ie/budget/news/10m-for-development-of-cork-events-centre-246431.html

A friend shared the site below through facebook, I thought it was very interesting. I’m still not completely convinced by the interface with the river, but I’m warming to this idea, not least because of the excellent brand identity they’ve generated makes me think it could be a big success;

http://www.supportbreweryquarter.com/

I started googling it, and also found this – again, great brand identity;

http://www.behance.net/gallery/Brewery-Quarter-Beamish-Limited-Edition/7065735

Here’s Scott Tallon Walker’s scheme as published on their site if you’ve not seen it;

http://www.stwarchitects.com/project-information.php?p=09164&t=p