Ballymun aka "Spring Cross"

I had understood from the 13/A bus that that part of town had already been renamed IKEA.

Skol, notjim

My belief is that “IKEALAND” is really a little further out, – beyond “The Hamptons”, also in the press today, which recalls the glories of the New York summer and John Updike novels, in a location near Santry Avenue.

Indeed the bus ride to IKEA, from Merrion Square and across the city, through a very grim final stretch of “Spring Chicken” country, where derelict and littered land awaits the developer or his banker, to reach the sacred Shed, is a curiously illuminating, and highly rewarding trip. Indeed a week of such commutes should be required of all planners.

http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/breaking/2009/0921/breaking8.htm

“The project includes shops, apartments and offices centred over the planned Metro line.”

Let the PVC King vs Marmajam catfight recommence… Actually, on second thoughts, don’t.

http://www.tribune.ie/business/news/article/2009/sep/20/ballymun-scheme-gets-go-ahead-to-generate-2000-job/
with details of the objections etc

How many shopping centres do we need in Dublin. Its not a particularly big city. We’re gonna be left with some enormous empty buildings in a few years.

Isn’t there a sizeable development mere minutes away on St Margarets Rd already – Charlestown, with more to come on that site from what I’ve heard.

@d_d_dallas wrote:

Isn’t there a sizeable development mere minutes away on St Margarets Rd already – Charlestown, with more to come on that site from what I’ve heard.

Yes indeed, we’ll eventually have a shopping center at every junction on the M50

It’s what you call ‘Edge City’; one possible definition of a developer is someone who gives you a development you don’t need in a location where you don’t want it. Every city is littered with these out on the edge ‘centres’ while the old urban villages quietly fester away. That’s progress, folks.
Welcome to Ikealand and Tescopolis.

@d_d_dallas wrote:

Isn’t there a sizeable development mere minutes away on St Margarets Rd already – Charlestown, with more to come on that site from what I’ve heard.

Nah it’s tiny, but they are hoping to build further phases. The reality is that comparison shopping east of Blanchardstown and south of Swords goes mainly to the city centre as the public transport links are so bad between that area and the major shopping centres. So there is room for it but it will have to be very sensibly done.

@johnglas wrote:

It’s what you call ‘Edge City’; one possible definition of a developer is someone who gives you a development you don’t need in a location where you don’t want it. Every city is littered with these out on the edge ‘centres’ while the old urban villages quietly fester away. That’s progress, folks.
Welcome to Ikealand and Tescopolis.

Which is exactly why a scheme serving more than local needs shouldn’t have been granted permission at this location. Most appropriate the proposed name, “Spring Cross” – another cross to carry for the city centre’s businesses if it goes ahead.

Interesting to note local councillor Andrew Montague being associated with this in media reports. It will be recalled that prior to the introduction of Bus(t) Gate, Montague in his capacity as a DCC Transport SPC member stated in the Gresham “Let the car-based shoppers go out to Dundrum” – which they have and city centre trade is substantially down since bust gate came into effect.

@Tribune wrote:

Construction will start after pre-lets have been agreed but Kavanagh is hopeful of being on site by the end of next year.

“Pre-lets”? Them’s were the days. Dream on, Treasury. Guff.

@Tribune, Treasury spokesman wrote:

A metro north station will be built in the basement of the centre,

My granny is also in the process of making a cheesecake on the moon: would anybody who believes this like to pre-order some while they wait for either airport metro or the basement of this centre?

Much more interesting is the current issue of Phoenix Magazine, with a full page in the business section opening with the line “Treasury Holdings are in serious financial trouble.”…

PS If anyone’s interested in a time-share in O’Connell Bridge, send me a pm – I can give a discount for pre-lets 🙂

Read all about it here in glorious virtual reality.
http://www.springcross.ie/

The idea that after a long browse in IKEA, and a possible struggle to get a bookcase into your car, you might fancy a further shopping, or cinema, experience in Ballymun is an “interesting” one. Note also the relatively low number of parking spaces envisaged, 2,000.

It claims to be at the heart of Europe’s most successful urban regeneration project!? I drove through there last weekend and whoever designed that central space wasn’t right in the head.

It remains run down, alienating and inhuman. They’ve a long long way to go.

I have been to IKEA and can’t imagine anyone leaving there wanting to do more shopping!
And Ballymun has a long way to go before it attracts families on a day out to spend time there.

Its a crazy plan, and not achieveable.
They should be concentrating on the local and surrounding areas, this is never going to attract people from beyond the local area.

@DjangoD wrote:

http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/breaking/2009/0921/breaking8.htm

“The project includes shops, apartments and offices centred over the planned Metro line.”

Let the PVC King vs Marmajam catfight recommence… Actually, on second thoughts, don’t.

If Green Luas can service Dundrum which in International terms is a mega-mall; Luas could easily service this development it does not need Metro North to go ahead. It doesn’t harm MN but certainly doesn’t make a clear case for it to be built as one assumes most of the employment will be local

I heard rumours London practice King Sturge are the marketing agents is this correct?

@reddy wrote:

We’re gonna be left with some enormous empty buildings in a few years.

There’s already plenty of them lying around

@PVC King wrote:

I heard rumours London practice King Sturge are the marketing agents is this correct?

KS are nationwide, like most UK supersized consultancy firms.
They have most probably set up the Irish P.O. Box / Office as I type.

What Ballymun needs is a shopping center with
supermarkets (inc discount supermarkets), Dole office, Health Center, Medical Center, community creche, drug treatment center, library, and all the social infrastructure of a small town.

What spring cross offers is undignified gentrification at the heart of Ballymun, this is not designed to serve the local community and was designed during the Celtic Tiger period to maximise the return for investors. Pure greed and over-consumption is the centerpiece of this design.

Back to the drawingboard the Tiger is gone and this is not a viable “town center” as it’s meant to be.

@ac1976 wrote:

What Ballymun needs is a shopping center with
supermarkets (inc discount supermarkets), Dole office, Health Center, Medical Center, community creche, drug treatment center, library, and all the social infrastructure of a small town.

What spring cross offers is undignified gentrification at the heart of Ballymun, this is not designed to serve the local community and was designed during the Celtic Tiger period to maximise the return for investors. Pure greed and over-consumption is the centerpiece of this design.

Back to the drawingboard the Tiger is gone and this is not a viable “town center” as it’s meant to be.

I don’t agree with you. If people in Ballymun are given jobs and the opportunity of a new environment, then you can kick the dole office and the drug treatment centre into touch. At the same time the scheme looks like it could be anywhere and I feel it will be reminiscent to schemes that have been built by Laus stop at Tallaght.

@parka wrote:

I don’t agree with you. If people in Ballymun are given jobs and the opportunity of a new environment, then you can kick the dole office and the drug treatment centre into touch. At the same time the scheme looks like it could be anywhere and I feel it will be reminiscent to schemes that have been built by Laus stop at Tallaght.

That’s a bit naive, even in wealthy towns the participation rate in employment is about 60%
Who is going to give a drug addict or someone who is long-term unemployed a job anyway? Perhaps a training center, with adult education would be more appropriate that H&M or Zara?

My point is that this plan is not designed around the needs of Ballymun, they won’t even use the name Ballymun for heaven’s sake! This is not a town center and its not good for the people of Ballymun.

And why is it so unappealing to include social infrastructure in a town center plan?
Its disgusting to see a plan that holds in contempt the social needs of the Ballymun Area, while calling itself a new “town center”.

as i always say lets keep the public services and the shops in separate buildings

Agreed seperation is important between public and public functions. It is clear that the existing shopping centre had lost its retail mix and vibrancy 15 years ago; there was a High Court case on the existing centre that centered on this very point.

If Tesco have signed up for a full Tesco Extra format at this location no doubt a sufficient number of retailers will want to co-locate; then one gets to the question retailers must ask themselves, can they afford not to be there if they wish to maintain market share.

This scheme will be a good barometer of the retail market for 2012 as the configuration of the units looks good. It may test schemes like Blanchardstown which will be 20 years old at that stage with a number expiries on the horizon. Whilst Blanch will always be a decent scheme once refurbished periodically the concept of less well done shopping centres becoming redundant is a concept that one must be aware of.