Re: Re: Dublin’s Bicycle Clutter

Home Forums Ireland Dublin’s Bicycle Clutter Re: Re: Dublin’s Bicycle Clutter


@FXR wrote:

It’s not as simple as that gintyc. …

Yes, it is. There’s law breaking cyclists, pedestrian and motorists.

You just can’t see that because you’re obsessed with cyclists. Don’t say you’re not because you’re not calling for “Pedestrian Wardens” — why not? More pedestrians break traffic lights in the city centre daily then there are cyclist — why no videos about pedestrians breaking lights? Why no videos about cars parked on footpaths, cycle lanes or blocking pedestrian crossings and other junctions?

The Garda Traffic Corps was set up to tactical traffic only issues such as enforcement of the rules of the road.

@FXR wrote:

I contacted DCC to get clarification on exactly where it’s allowed to lock a bike and where not.

I’ll make this clear: There is NO law stopping cyclist from using polls, trees or posts as long as they are not blocking footpaths.

Cyclists have been locking their bicycles to polls, trees and posts in Dublin for over 100 years, it has been a non-issue and it still is.

The city and national government wants more cyclists, if they don’t provide enough cycling parking stands, that’s their problem. It’s not really their problem as very few people at all view it as a problem.

@FXR wrote:

@gintyc wrote:

Where has the cycling lobby demanded this? Can you point to one article?

I’ll have to get back to you on that one gintyc. I’m sure if seen something to that effect but I’ve been through website after website and I’ve lost track.

Have a better look at their website; their stated policy is that the money spent on the canals cycle track would be better spent on education and enforcement for all users – it’s on their website and it was mentioned in The Sunday Times too.

@FXR wrote:

@gintyc wrote:

Cyclists don’t contribute to the economy? What on earth are you basing that on? :problem:

There is no charge specific to cycling. Cyclists pay no road tax or licence fee. Cyclists don’t pay any fee for the provision of bike stands, there is no cycle lane tax (which for motorists is called road tax). A tax free bike scheme reduces the public income and increases public expenditure as show in the Dublin’s Bicycle clutter video. Whatever the arguments for the conditions it’s a fact that cyclists don’t contribute any funds specific to cycling to the economy.

First you seem to be confusing “economy” with the State’s tax take.

Secondly, there’s no such thing as “road tax”. Motorists pay motor tax, a bicycle has no motor and does no damage to roads compared to that done by cars and trucks.

Most cyclists are also motorists and even the ones how do pay tax by other means. The idea of taxing people for cycling is unworkable for a number of reasons:

Why should cyclists be the only group of people who pay road and path tax?

Why would the government tax cyclists when it currently has tax incentives aimed at getting more people cycling?

Why would you tax something that has a benefit to tax payer, has a benefit to the health service, which takes pressure off public transport and off congestion, which reduces emissions used, which reduces noise pollution, which frees up people’s money to be spent on the local economy rather than imports?

How do cyclists prove they have paid or not? Do tourists have to pay? How do you prove you’re a tourist? Do teenagers have to pay? If not, will they have to carry around ID while cycling? Even with adults, do you propose that weekend and a few times a year cyclists pay as much 5-day-a-week cyclists? Would any payment and registration system be off putting to those who just cycle the odd time?

@FXR wrote:

@gintyc wrote:

Actually cycling does not require any such additional facilities. People are and have been cycling for years without such. But the government wants to provide these additional facilities. Because they think that having more cyclists is good for the country, good for people’s health, good for the economy, good for the taxpayer, and good for environment.

There’s the real root of the problem: politics in Ireland. Here is a facility provided specifically for cyclists….

You’re quoting me but you’re not reading what I’m saying.

You can’t blame all cyclists for facilities that the State provides.

@FXR wrote:

@FXR wrote:

It’s a fact: cyclists in Dublin break every law every second of every day. The show no regard for pedestrians, other road users and endanger themselves.

@gintyc wrote:

No, that’s not a fact.
It’s only a fact that some cyclist break the law, and only some of them have no respect for anybody. Just like some pedestrians and motorists do the same and some have no respect for anybody.

I’m afraid it’s a fact. I’ve tested that statement over and over. I’ve got this recorded and viewable evidence and if anyone can provide similar evidence to contradict it be my guest;


I’m a cyclist. I cycle in Dublin. Like many others I don’t break the law. I guess there’s two choice here: You’re wrong or you are calling me a layer and a law breaker.

You have not proven that all cyclists in Dublin always break the law, only that some cyclists often break the law. Just like some motorists and some pedestrian often break the law.

And again, you’re obsessed with cyclists. Why?

@FXR wrote:

Cycle lanes cost up to 1.6 million per kilometre (see Sunday Times article by Ciara Healy 29/05/2011 page 8)

No the article, said that cycle lanes can cost up to that amount, not that all of them do.

@FXR wrote:

This is the Sean O’Casey bridge: it is surrounded by the best cycle lanes in the city. Cyclists simply ignore the cycle lanes and use the pedestrian bridge.

This clearly shows that you don’t know what you’re taking about.

The Sean O’Casey Bridge is surrounded by some of most disjointed and poorly designed cycle lanes in the city and pedestrians walk all over them all the time.

“FXR” wrote:
At the moment over 20,000 people a day cycle into Dublin. By 2020 the government plans to reach a target of 160,000 cycling to work daily. The city is not expanding like an elastic field to accommodate more and more traffic. The streets will not be any wider.

Have you noticed bicycles are quite small? Don’t worry, far more than 160,000 a day would be able to fit.

“FXR” wrote:
How many cyclists will die or suffer injury as a result of those plans? How many people will suffer broken bones or have a nervous breakdown after seeing someone run over? To just simply pour more and more people into an unregulated situation where people will do whatever they want regardless is a recipe for disaster. Saying that the number of injuries and deaths is low is not much use to 2 children who have lost a parent even if the statistics are good overall. If you’re lying in a hospital with a brace screwed into either side of your skull to put tension on your spine being told you were in the right legally is not much comfort either.

Cycling has been on the increase for years now in Dublin, yet your doom and gloom has not happened and there’s no signs of it happening.

What has happened is as the numbers of cyclists has increased the number of deaths and injuries has decreased – it’s called safety in numbers.

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