Re: Re: reorganisation and destruction of irish catholic churches

@Praxiteles wrote:

Brian
Could you ever explain to us what you you mean by saying that Place of Worship is an authentic Church document?

Yes, the ‘Place of Worship’ is a valid Church document as it is issued by the Irish Episcopal Liturgy Commission on behalf of the Irish Episcopal Conference. The Irish Episcopal Conference is obliged to issue guidelines on the building and renovation of church buildings and it fell to the Liturgy Commission to expeite this. As such it represents the mind of the Irish Bishops.

@Praxiteles wrote:

Clearly, you cannot here be speaking of a document having canonical effect and authority. In this sense, it has no bearing whatsoever on church architecture.

yes and no. Yes in that it is canonical in as far as it quotes GIRM, the Rite of Dedication of an Altar, Eucharisticum Mysterium and so on. It is not canonical of itself. It certainly has a bearing on church architecture because it is issued by a ‘competent authority’ as defined in Sancrosanctum Concilium as it is obliged to do by GIRM, and it represents the mind of the Irish bishops and can not be ignored.

@Praxiteles wrote:

It has already been pointed out on this thread, I think, that as the Art and Architecture Committee is an ADVISORY committeeto the Liturgical Commission of the Irish Bishops Conference, all it can do is advise the body that was appointed to advise. Clearly neither the Committee nor the Commission has any authority to LEGISLATE for the Bishops Conference.

Again yes and no. Yes in that I agree with everything you say about the advisory committee on art & architecture. It is advisory and all it can do is advise (the liturgical commission). No in that the Liturgical Commission is an episcopal commission – consisting of bishops. It has the full authority of the Irish Episcopal Conference to make directives regarding liturgy.

@Praxiteles wrote:

Indeed, it is doubtful that the Art and Architecture Committee should even have published the document Place of Worship.

It didn’t, the irish Episcopal Liturgy Commission published it. The Art & Architecture Committee advised the Liturgy Commission regarding its content.

@Praxiteles wrote:

I am am sure that you are expert in the rules laid out in the planning laws and how they are drawn up and how they are applied. In the Catholic Church, there are rules governing how the liturgy is celebrated and what is needed for its celebration. These rulese are laid down by ecclesiastical authority / and, I am afraid, that the Art and Architecture Committe is no such authority.

I am probably more expert in the spatial requirements of liturgy than secular planning law. Indeed the art & architecture committee is not permitted to issue authorative directives in the sense you describe.

BQ