Vega City

Saw initial proposals on the telly. Monorail, 40,000 apartments, three theme parks, golf facilities etc.

Some eejit then came on and said it shouldnt happen because dublin airport couldnt handle the numbers and we’d have to build an extra runway or two. Did i mention eejit?

Fingal planners have “initial Reservations”, surprise surprise. Could be the best or worst thing that ever happens to this country, or doesnt

For Vega read Vegas….

I think this is a thin edge to a wedge which will attempt to locate a major gambling and entertainment complex in Ireland for the whole of Europe. I suspect that the developers are linked either to Atlantic City (possibly Trump) or Las Vegas itself. Coupled with a supply line like Ryan Air you can see joint “family friendly” travel packages, for the event. Perhaps it should be called “Event Horizon” (for those not keen on lateral jumps see under film). You can come to Ireland but never experience Ireland. Instead it is likely it would follow Vegas with Themed facilities, probably in the form of come to Ireland, see America. Grand Canyon boulevard, Yosemite Hotel, Ol Yella Gesyer fountains and so on, perhaps Mount Rushmore (with faces of more recent american presidents).

I think its true to say it will be either the worst or best thing to happen in this country.
One of the extraoridinary facts about it will be that if built, it will stretch from the new Swords interchange of the M1 – just finished, on both sides of the motorway – to Balbriggan!

Apparently one of the major backers in the project are to make themselves known today (19th)

And what apartments have to do with a theme park…

I think it would be a disaster….
And the numbers don’t stack up – this place would need an entire airport which copes with twice as many passengers as dublin airport does at the moment…. where will they build a new airport? who will pay for it? its not a matter of a single new terminal…

“It would be an enormous imposition. For example, it would see a total of 60 million passengers passing through Dublin Airport a year, compared to Heathrow which has 53 million passengers a year,” he said.”

I don’t buy it – I reckon a report will prove after rezoning that its unviable and propose a new town instead…

I agree with Paul, the numbers don’t add up at all.

Paris is one of the largest and most visited cities in Europe and they’re having trouble sustaining a major branded theme park. The record breaking 13.1 million visitors to Disneyland Paris last year are not enough to keep the park afloat and it is in serious financial difficulty, losing almost Eur60m this year.

Now, how the hell is a tinpot little town on the edge of Europe with its wet climate, shoddy transport and the ever present faint stench of corruption going to generate 3 times the numbers that Disneyland Paris does?

The French called Disneyland Paris a ‘Cultural Chernobyl’ can we expect any such development here to be any different? Anyway, don’t we have a theme park already, down in Temple Bar?

I’m sure I’m not alone in thinking that the proposed development is a trojan horse for a new town.

The developers have planted the seed of serious cash into the minds of local landowners. Possible sellers, if the price is right, have identified themselves. Planners will come under increasing pressure to sanction development of some sort, or be seen as holding back a major cash cow for the economy…

In short, it stinks…

Owen O’Callaghan has emerged as the main irish character in this little drama. He of merchants quay shopping centre and mahon point fame. And most of cork city centre, oh, and the liffey valley, oh and the new liffey valley town centre.

Someones going to turn lusk into a metropolis. Oh the horror

If this actually went ahead as described – goodbye M50, M1, any thought of extra capacity in Dublin Airport. You think congestion is bad now? You’d need to triple the capacity of the M50 alone. The figures are very revealing – check out todays indo – 17 million of the proposed visitors are supposed to come from INSIDE Ireland – think about it: every man woman and child will have to visit this venue FOUR times a year – yeah right! Ireland the country attracted 5.85 mill last year in tourist numbers – is this with three airports, ferrys etc… So just Dublin airport will pass on more people than Heathrow?

A more likely scenario and remember we’re talking Mr Liffey Valley, Mahon Point here is that the vega dev will work out to be “unviable” but can I build the 40,000 apartments anyway along with a million sqft of commercial space, oh and since I’m not building the theme park forget the monorail or extra two lanes for the M1 as proposed.
His dev’s are the AIDS virus to established urban areas.

Originally posted by d_d_dallas
A more likely scenario and remember we’re talking Mr Liffey Valley, Mahon Point here is that the vega dev will work out to be “unviable” but can I build the 40,000 apartments anyway along with a million sqft of commercial space, oh and since I’m not building the theme park forget the monorail or extra two lanes for the M1 as proposed.

Agreed 100%

The addition of a second runway at dublin airport would at a cost of 272m Euro give a combined capacity of 50m passengers. (Aer Rianta EIS scoping report Nov 2002) That is less than 37m ‘New’ tourists and 18m existing passengers. A new terminal in Cork to handle 2m passengers will cost 140m Euro, Dublin Airport would therefore require at least 1bn Euro investment just to service this project.

As for shutting or disrupting the M1 to add two lanes, that is unlikely to attract the support of the NRA.

As for 40,000 apartments in an area without the Dart or any rail line with spare capacity.

For what a plastic theme park

Useful rule of thumb: anything with a monorail in it will never happen.

“Well, sir, there’s nothing on earth
Like a genuine,
Bona fide,
Electrified,
Six-car
Monorail!
What’d I say?

Monorail!

What’s it called?

Monorail!

That’s right! Monorail!”

Please excuse me, I could not resist the opportuny to quote the simpsons song about monorails. I think it is quite apt in this situation.

and what about us brain dead slobs?

youll be offered fake new jobs.

is there a chance the law might bend?

depends on the bribe my developer friend

i swear its irelands only choice,
throw up your hands and raise your voice,

MONORAIL!!
MONORAIL!!
MMMOOONNNOOORRRAAAIIIL!

have pity, i too am an addict.

Is there just a high density of thick and stupid people here ?

Listen, this vega city development should go ahead. The economic spin off is so huge that failure to go ahead is completely stupid.

Yes there are concern’s. For instance no one wants this thing to turn out to one huge housing development and the infastruture has to be developed but these things can be taken care of.

In light of Abbotstown, it can be agreed that in order for Vega City to go ahead then they need to have infastructure delivered on a stage basis.

Fingal Country Council can put in these safeguards. Any objections seem to be purely on concerns over infastructure and negativity. If we dont go ahead with this then some other EU country is going to get it !

And what ‘s the big problem with monorail anyway?

I think it is too good an oppurtunity to waste, i doubt it will get the through the planning process however, and even if it did it would almost surely be scaled back. Whether the Council and residents like it or not, that land will be rezoned, its just a matter of time.The scale of the development is mindboggling, could you imagine the benefits to the construction industry, exchequer and toursim industry, airports and ports it would really put Dublin on the map. As for the infrastructute, where theres a will theres a way!

What will? Theres a strong will to get us a transport system in the city and look where thats going. Cant even lay the tracks straight. I must say i shudder at the thought of an irish theme park consuming half of north county dublin. Heavy handed stupidity that will scar the cultural landscape for a long time. Look at the plans!! Its all nice lakes and green. Looks like a school kid drew it

Originally posted by Qadhafi
Is there just a high density of thick and stupid people here ?

If we dont go ahead with this then some other EU country is going to get it !

ahhh classic FUD tactics…

fear uncertainty doubt…. if we don’t let it happen, someone else will get it… so what?

and if you wanted more proof that this was a load of bollox

Small US company declares its backing for theme park
Merchandising firm with 15 employees says it is ready to invest €1 billion in development

A small American merchandising company has emerged as the first foreign backer of the proposed theme park near Lusk in north Co Dublin. Oz-Central, a firm based in Henderson, Kentucky, said it was prepared to invest €1 billion in the €7 billion scheme.

According to the US Business Directory, Oz-Central is located in the town of Henderson, and employs between 10 and 15 people. Its annual revenues are between $2.5 and $5 million.

http://www.ireland.com/newspaper/ireland/2003/1120/3727967965HM3OZNEWS.html

read the entire article – its hilarious

This is definately the bizarrest New Ireland story yet. I am amazed that anyone would seriously consider this as aviable plan. I agree completely with the comments regarding EuroDisney…. that is just about solvent and the French have the advantage of guaranteed summers! I would think it is most definately a trojan horse to speed up land development in the area.

They’re taking the piss – 40,000 jobs, 37 million visitors, for jaysus sake. To put this is some perspective: The Magic Kingdom in Walt Disney World is 100 acres and these guys say it will be 2000 acres.

I mean, what will be in it? The Tallaght White Knuckle 56A Ride and the Raheny House of Horrors? Feckin ridiculous business. I’d be on the side of waging that the outcome will be that the developers in question will buy up all the land, then miraculously decide that the theme park is not economical, then they have all this nice rezoned farmland to put housing developments on. Plain as bloody day

On an investment $7bn for 40,000 jobs or $175,000 per job. Not even West Belfast pays that. The Celtic Tiger was built upon subsidies of about £15,000 or $19,230 per job. Well dispersed and with growth potential.

Bucharest is welcome to this project if even they want it.

Well lucky for us Fingal CC has the power to refuse permission to apply for permission… if that makes sense.

The conservationists nightmare are schemes like this and spencer dock before it. As organizations such as the Irish Georgian Society spend so much time on fighting these developments. That they are unable to contest other developments that are damaging albiet on a smaller scale. But this has to be smoke screen of the decade. I hope you are right D_D and that Fingal refuse to entertain this at all.

They do have the power as an application of this size would require so much time and resources that all other North Dublin planning fuctions would grind to a halt. So if it looks completely unviable then they can refuse as to not waste their time.

Bloody Georgians, wish they’d stop interfering here and head on back to Tbilisi where they came from.

As long as they don’t take all the Guinness with them!!!!!

Someone I know said it used to be great in the 70s and 80s – but now ‘they’re all Kathleen Watkins types’

This thread should win an award for Joycean stream of consciousness. How do you get from a theme park in north Dublin to Kathleen Watkins via Tblisi, all on an architectural website.

Americans deny backing €7 billion Co Dublin theme park
Scott Millar

TWO American entertainment corporations deny claims by Irish promoters that they are involved in a proposed €7 billion theme park for north Dublin.
Owen O’Callaghan, a Cork property developer, said yesterday that six leading entertainment companies are backing the project, including 20th Century Fox and Sony. But two of the companies have denied this.

Jim Yeager, head of publicity with Universal, said: “Universal has not had meetings with any representatives of this group and we have no intention of developing any parks in Ireland at this time, or indeed any time.”

Charles Grace, a spokesman for Six Flags, the world’s largest theme-park operator, denied that the company was involved. “We are not planning to build any kind of park in Ireland at this time,” he said.

Despite the denials, the Vega City consortium still maintains that international entertainment corporations are backing the project. O’Callaghan, chairman of United Entertainment Partners, the company behind the proposed north Dublin development, said: “That is not what we have heard from them. We are very much of the opinion that they are very interested in this project and are prepared to come to Dublin.

SMOKE SCREEN!

Why isn’t this being shouted from the rooftops?

Well most papers have mentioned it… including the Herald…
http://irish.typepad.com/newmediacuts/2003/08/vega_city_comes.html

The proposers of a €7bn theme park for north Co Dublin have said they will not now develop the park in Ireland after councillors on Fingal County Council described the proposal as unacceptable.

At a special meeting, the United Entertainment Partners gave a presentation to councillors on their plans, but the councillors described it as vague and sloppy.

The County Manager, William Soffe, said the proposal was not a runner.

Afterwards Owen O’Callaghan, the chairman of the consortium, said they may now take their plans elsewhere in Europe.

Fingal has once again proved itself to be the most progressive county council in Eire

This won’t be built anywhere else in Europe, its just not going to happen. Even aside from the shady financial aspects and the lack of any concrete proposals which made it a non-runner anyway Europe (and especially Ireland) is a bad location for theme parks of this magnitude because of the climate – Europe is cold in winter. This is one of the reasons EuroDisney is struggling, they can’t attract people to freeze their balls off on the outskirts of Paris on a January afternoon. Unlike its sister operations in Florida and Southern California which have excellent year round weather.

Also did anyone notice their expected visitor numbers – 35 million annually, 18 million of which would be from abroad. Ambitious yes, but not nearly as ambitious as the 17 million domestic visitors they expecteds every year. Theres a population of about 5.5 to 6 million on the entire island, that means they were expecting every man, woman and child from North, South, East and West to visit the place 3 times each every year!

This was just never going to happen for so many reasons, here or anywhere else.

Well done Fingal County Council for showing some backbone – this has prevented a huge tranche of agricultural land being rezoned for development.

Ah well – Mr O’Callaghan can go back to his Mahon and Liffey Valley developments – mini-vega’s in their own right.

And lo Vague City shall disappear like the Cheshire cat without even a grin left…

This was nonsense from the off. Hmm Leisure facilities – shopping is now the greatest “leisure” – so lets build a …massive shopping centre.

O’Callaghan and his ilk are spongers – wait for the taxpayer to build a motorway i.e. M50, M1 with decent traffic flows and bugger it up by plonking something just off it. Obviously Frank Dunlop was indisposed by the Mahon and couldn’t ‘lobby’ for the developers.

I am so delighted this Mickey Mouse project never took off

Fingal was described as ‘the food basket of Dublin’ – I like that.

“The food basket of Dublin”, eh? Why – because its so expensive?

I’ve seen the propsal the council were given and they had no option but to bin it. Vague and sloppy doesn’t begin to describe the graphics, which look like they were drawn by a five year old with a thick marker on the back of a napkin.
And the written material has less detail than your average planning application for a garage extension.
This is coming from people who have seven billion euros in their pockets?
This was a joke from start to finish.

Residual development analysis has traditionally been conducted on the back of a cigerette box.

What baffles with this one is their site acquisition strategy. To quote a master ” Site acquisition at the right price is the key to successful development” Hughes 2000

Check out last weekend’s Sunday Business Post for some really craven coverage of this proposal. They quoted “sources” as saying that major entertainment corporations were backing the proposal. Clearly the “sources” were Louis Maguire and Owen O’Callaghan. The Irish Indo also acted as cheerleaders for the scam. Shows how you can pull the wool on gullible journalists and get them to hype up even the daftest of projects. But of course Paul Clerkin has already proven how gullible some of these hacks are. I keep expecting Maguire/O’Callaghan to turn around and say they were taking the p too!!

did they actually get around to buying any land from farmers on the promise of this?

Promised about three times the value of the land as agricultural land, but ‘subject to contract’ terms of the contract being that all necessary planning consent was secured by the promoters. In the absence of that NADA