Ugly buildings
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I’ve got my hat handy SW101 and I’m ready to eat it ……..lets see yer stuff, then?
Crayon images always show up well on line
i have to say rory, that i think the railings are about more than the workers feeling slightly uneasy on their way up the steps to work. without being over the top i think they represent an attitude towards the city. what was a very popular civic space is railed off and privatised. whats more important the feelings of a few suits (who didnt really have to go near the bums with the width of those steps) or the value of in my opinion the best public space we had? aside from that i think the design is one of the most woeful peices of urban design this side of the eighties. if you want to see some my work there is a picture in the property section of last wednesdays irish times. ooo the mystery!
Originally posted by Rory W
A few points on the Central Bank:2) the railings – I think that it is only fair to the employees that they don’t have to walk through groups of goth kids sitting on the steps or flying at them on skateboards or winos drinking, puking etc on the steps. Since these ‘members of society’ have acted in the way that they did – the railings had to go up. I wouldn’t like to have to deal with this every day on my way in and out of work, it IS intimidating – would you?
Firstly I think it is important that you should realise that there is a large difference between goths and skateboarders, both of whom I should say have just as much right to the city as the bankers do. Secondly I think that you should also realise that ‘members of society’ such as winos puking on the steps have often ended up in this situation through no fault of their own. To rail off these areas is to live in a city where nothing happens, a world where you do not have to think. This sort of world is more like an artist impression of an urban area than reality. The attitude shown to our public spaces in the urban areas of this country are getting out of control and very worrying. Last summer I was in Placa dels Angels in Barcelona. This is the plaza where Richard Meier’s Museum of Contemporary Art is situated. There were skaters enjoying themselves by interpreting the city in an imaginative way. The only time I saw a security guard was when they came out for a cigarette. This is not to say that the skaters were the only ones in the plaza. There were people sitting, children playing, people just walking through and the restaurants had seats outside on the plaza (where I watched this spectacle from). Finally I don’t find this sort of activity intimidating whatsoever. The more that different activities are segregated and outlawed within the city the less understanding we have of them. The more this happens the more we will feel intimidated by them.
The railings destroy the architecture of the flights of steps – as to their necessity I just don’t know.
I like the Bank, but hate its location.
It is in the Roches category of landing from outer-space,only 65 million times worse.It crashes down into the city, and to this day it still looks so obvious that a terrace of buildings were demolished to make way for it on Dame St, this gaping wound in the streetscape is the worst aspect of the building.
The original proposal to retain the facade of the Commercial Buildings and others and to have a large archway through to the plaza would have addressed this.The pathetic ‘replica’ of the Commercial Bldgs that’s there now should never have been built, it virtually overlaps the Bank and destroys the symmetry of the public space, with a st running down the left-hand side and this lump of clinical rubbish on the other.
Some views of the roof trusses look interesting – like from the Ha’penny Bridge – but from most areas of the city it is a cluttered mess.
It is the finest building from its time in the city, just the location is ludicrous.It would look fantastic if it was Cork County Hall, sitting in the middle of the field – its current position is utterly out of context.
I agree with you about the commercial buildings replica. I once heard that when the original was dismantled most of the bricks went missing so that is why most of the building (the door looks original) is a fake. I suppose it was a bit of a joke moving it in the first place anyway so it was always going to be a replica after it had been dismantled from its original spot.
I always thought the door was original as well – its the only decent part of the building.
Every piece of the original was numbered and catalogued as it was dismantled, for future reconstruction. What a disgrace pieces went missing – I always thought they just couldn’t be bothered carefully rebuilding and so threw up this entirely new structure in its place.
I have to say I really like this building. I like the way it towers over its environs and really does provide a focal point to that part of Temple Bar. I have to agree with Graham’s comments though – the Commercial Buildings are a sham. Maybe if the facade was recontructed it wouldn’t be so much of one but as it is, its just a fake.
Looking at the Central Bank it is obvious it landed in the street, destroying a whole terrace of what were very beautiful buildings. That’s a shame, but the building itself is a gem.
The civic space was great – the railings are a joke – so obviously a hastily throught of add-on – a case of ‘this is my space and I’m not having anyone else in so I’ll build a ridiculous wall around my area’
I thought it a very rich area in terms of diversity of social gathering. It still in inspite of the railing deliberately meant to destroy this aspect. I think it was just a case of Fat Cat bankers wanting things there way, willing to exclude all others from ‘their’ building. If they were intimidated by the people on the plaza then sure they must never walk around the city. I work in Irish Life beside the methadone clinic – now you should see the types we pass by into work!
The Central Bank, Its a quality building Its frightening the way some ignorant CEO Mullah from the sub_urbs can swipe away the most successful and accessible public space in the city. I am at a loss to see how some middle class kids with heavy make up can be considered intimidating.
more dissapointing is that an increasing number of our public spaces are becoming privatised. If you go down to the IFSC with a camera you will be approached by an irate securityman asking you to leave as you pose a security risk. Even good ol socio democratic countries with civilised planning systems like Germany are adopting this idea, Eg Potzdammer platz in Berlin is owned by the Sony corp, and if they dont like your haircut its bye bye.
Perhaps the boorish reputation of Stephenson comes from old staff rumours from his office. It was believed he did not come up with the idea for the central bank as his co workers simply couldnt believe he had the intelligence to concieve it. I’ve been to Stephenson Lectures myself and quite frankly I would believe the hearsay, juvinile and all as it is. The piss take of urban design that these railings are is not a silly joke, but an accurate representation of his thinking maybe.Originally posted by pvdz
Even good ol socio democratic countries with civilised planning systems like Germany are adopting this idea, Eg Potzdammer platz in Berlin is owned by the Sony corp, and if they dont like your haircut its bye bye.Correct me if I’m wrong, but I think the Sony Center is a development on Potsdammer Platz not the actual platz…..
http://germany.archiseek.com/brandenburg/berlin/sony_centre.html
Originally posted by Zap
The civic space was great – the railings are a joke – so obviously a hastily throught of add-on – a case of ‘this is my space and I’m not having anyone else in so I’ll build a ridiculous wall around my area’
Correct me if I am wrong but surely all of the so-called “Civic Space” is really their property.
I think the railings are an unfortunate necessity of city centre (especially Temple Bar!) life. Hands up who actually would like to have to power-wash down their front doorstep of all sorts of crap (literally) every morning.
But at least the whole plaza was not closed off and some thought was put into keeping the area as a space where people can meet/congregate.
We probably should be thankful!
im sorry harry but that is a very small minded view of the situation. its not really about who owns what piece of land (although legally it obviously is) or the slight discomfort or offence of a small number of workers in that building.
This is an issue for the city and an unhealthy attitude overtly displayed by the upper classes towards the general public (reminiscent of the wide streets commission tearing down the tenements of the poor while they were away, at least they were doing it for the good of the city). its about arguably the best public space in the city being destroyed by the wishes of a few.
The fact that they have left some of it is beside the poit. they have taken the wind out of the sails of the space. they have turned waht was a recessive inviting space into an agressive space where no-one really wants to stay. thankful? next time someone punches you in the face shake their hand for not cutting your balls off.Sorry about that, I phrased myself badly. I was referring to the perception of public space which is portrayed to the general public. In the Berlin case people like Yahn and Piano have created a generous and sucessful series of public spaces which in past times would have been in public ownership and now are owned by corporations and constantly supervised by them.
This situation stinks as these corporations have the ability to do exactly what the central bank did. More worrying than someone who has an aversion to the ‘lower classes’ these people exsist in a perpetual state of fear of urban life and the principles of urbanity itself. The only time these people encounter another demographic is when they go into ‘toun’ for the weekend to get lushed or by visiting a planned european city.
If we keep on segregating people into social ghettos in sub urban areas we can see that unenlightened people like Harry from middle class ghettos 10 miles from the city are the people who are ultimately making the decisions about the spaces we doorstep crapwashers end up living in.I don’t want to turn this into a slagging match. I expressed my opinion and did not attack any of the other members.
This is a thread about the building, which by the way I do like but agree that it is somewhat out of place. The plaza is part of the overall architecture of the building and at that I do not think the railings suit the original building very well. One thing I always thought about the railings is that they certainly could have been designed with a very wide opening at the front. This would have made it less intrusive and left the view of the steps unobstructed when left open during the day and when closed at night still met the requirement for which it was erected in the first place. The railings should also have been closer to the building to preserve the size of the plaza.
I am not small minded (I started my post with “Correct me if I’m wrong……â€). I agree that the railings do detract from the overall plaza but I don’t think it is totally ruined. I am thankful that the whole plaza was not closed off. That does not mean I am happy about what they have done, but surely there should be some recognition that there is still a (smaller) plaza there.
I don’t claim to know Sam Stephenson, I have never been to one of his lectures, I’ve probably never sat beside him on the bus, I have not extensively toured the placa’s and plaza’s of Europe, but I do not consider myself “unenlightenedâ€. I live and socialise in the city centre. I spend as much time as I can here and that in itself can be enlightening (for good and bad reasons), but I love it dearly and will regret having to leave if and when that days comes.
The segregation of the classes is becoming more and more obvious as time goes by. This is caused be a wide number of influences not by any one set of railings however symbolic or prominent they are. The segregation of classes is caused by society itself and we are all part of that (banks, architects, skateboarders, drunks, all classes, colours and creeds etc. included).
But that is another thread, this one is about the Central Bank.
Sorry if that became a bit of a rant.
One other point that has not been mentioned is the issue of insurance. If I fell down the steps, can I claim against the bank ?
no slagging going on here just open discussion, i just take offence to the attitude that a functioning public space should be destroyed by a few suits’ phobia of the real world. I dont know if the central bank owns that land but im sure a provision of planning permission was the public space. now they have their building built they take away the part that gave back to the city. it shouldnt be allowed.
i realise there are issues of insurance etc. but this isnt the only place in the world where there are an open flight of stairs, im sure that wasnt the primary reason, as usual i susspect that was greed, laziness and ignorance.This harks back to the “all property is theft” type left wing nonsense that makes sense when everybody behaves themselves but when they don’t they have the right to protect themselves and their property – Isn’t the right to property part of the constitution after all
the dicussion of the central bank has come up befoer i think its an alright building
but people often mention the change of teh roof what ya mean by that do yas have a before and after picture ?Originally posted by what?
I dont know if the central bank owns that land but im sure a provision of planning permission was the public space.they do as far as i know
the primary reason given for the enclosure was that it was embarassing in having to wipe vomit, piss and excrement off the steps every morning when you had visitors from other central banks calling… its more the fault of the irish people being unable to cope with public space and standards of behaviour….i don’t like the design of the railings but i don’t blame the bank… i would do the same
……would’nt be too hard on your countrymen and women Paul. Don’t think I’ve met many Dubliners at Temple bar, mostly Geordies, Glaswegians, Brummies and Essex girls out on the razzle on cheap flights deals from RyanAir
i can assure you im not left wing, and certainly dont go in for that misguided, ill-informed happy-spa shit.
im not saying that everyone was well behaved and the place was pristine 24/7.ive been in that plaza (as many others im sure)hundereds of times when it was open, at all hours of the day and night, and the next morning. it wasnt that bad. now i think it would be an extremley rare situation to find excrement on the steps, urine and sometimes vomit i will give you, and some rubbish from fast food outlets the night before. i dont think anyone would deny the place became messy. but name me a well used public space that doesnt?
its the laziness of the option to rail it all off and ruin the space that i have a problem with. employ a guy to come out with a powerhose early in the morning (as they do wit many buildings and public spaces on the continent) and after a few minutes the steps are as clean as they ever were.
leaving the city with the public space it deserves. in my eyes the railings dont just make the plaza smaller they utterly destroy it. its the quick fix, short term, narrow minded, thoughtless solution typical in this culture run by unenlightened morons who see politics and positions of authority as windows to easier lives for themselves rather than an opportunity to make things better.
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