Tara street gets go ahead

It did unfortunately suffer the haircut that An Bord Pleanala insist upon – two floors are gone. My bet is that the top floor restaurant will be sacrificed for office space.
I’m fairly sure the Irish Times got the idea that the building will be taller than Liberty Hall from the original height of 61m rather than the revised height (about 55m, presumably).
The likelihood is that the building will be built; part of the frightening-sounding masterplan is that transport hubs in the city be more recognisable, hence the rather horrible Harbourmaster House that sprouted out of the side of Connolly station last year.
The cluster of groundscrapers in the area might start to look good when this is built and Hawkins House reclad. Any chance of College House, Apollo House and Liberty Hall getting a makeover?

This is great news …it wil be a striking feature of the cityscape….let’s hope they remodel the loopline bridge too.

Here we go again, the poor loopline. Give it a good look sometime.

It could be painted up in nice bright colours ….but na …….it is too heavy and horizontal in appearance…. (‘m not going
on either about not being able to see the Custom House)
Get Calatrava in to do something fancy…….to match the new Tara Street station proposed……….it could all look contemporary, stylish, landmarkish and visually strong.

Oh No! enough!
Dublin will become the City of Calatrava bridges

The incorporation of Kennedy’s Bar into the glass building looks really awkward. I hope it’s just bad compositing.

True ….it would be better if Kennedys bar was maybe removed………….
but also, if they are to lower the height of the Tara Steet train station proposal,it will mean that it will look around the same height as O’Connelll Bridge House when viewed from a distance…….which will only mean that there will be no visual distinction (aka the 4/5 storey visual monotony effect)..so it could possibly look crappy.
In future Developers should aim alot higher in scale so that when the planning board require a few storeys to be lopped off. it will put the proposed building in correct proportion. I believe the planning board are visually illiterate at this stage…………….pity about the loss of the Tower by Fuscano properties in Smithfield too.
Dublin is becoming a featureless place….despite new developments.

Kennedys bar is listed for some reason.

This shows how prominent it will be, and also how it certainly won’t be 61m:

Notice how much it hides “One George’s Quay Plaza”.

……a nice arched featured bridge would look good there too ….would’nt it………instead of the present loopline manifestation.

Old rendering, looking roughly down Tara St:

New rendering from similar angle:

Notice how the dark section facing Tara St is now lower but the clear section is the same? I’m not sure which looks better though.

The top rendering looks kinda better …..well maybe,……..na, both look good……….but definetiley they should remove that pub …it looks awful jutting out there.
I hope the building itself will be covered in that sexy shiny glass as the images suggests ……we need a bit of that in Dublin. It has the potential to be a great contemporary focal point and anchor for the city……

It won’t be pleasant for the owners of Kennedy’s while construction is taking place. I believe the owner has been in residence for a long number of years!

I was very happy myself and very suprised too that the scheme has got the go ahead. I’m especially happy as it will serve a major train station – public transport tying into high intensity uses and all that crack! (Guess my profession?!)
I also think its a nice design and could prove a good contrast to Liberty Hall – in fact, maybe between the Liberty Hall, the Georges Quay? buildings and the Tara St. proposal that Dublin could end up with an interesting cluster of different buildings in that location. (as long as dublin doesn;t end up with reams of c.60m only buildings on one side of the river to match in ways the clusters of c.5 storey (squat) only buildings on the other side)!
We may even get that ‘gateway’ effect on the Liffey that the arhcitects mentioned i.e. between the Liberty and tara st blocks.

Greg F… Please! leave the poor loopline alone! Its not the prettiest of bridges but (and i’ll add my own subjective opinion here) i think it is interesting as a bridge, giving a bit of variation from the predomently stone, large bridges in the city centre – its very much of its time and i think even its covering of singage has something to say for itself – i.e. just showing that its part of a busy city and is moving along with it. also, I wouldn;t want to fill the city with Calatravas’ and, as i think i’ve said here before – i have some reservations about inserting more than one large cable stay type bridge in a low-rise and narrow river city like Dublin.

According to a friend who used to work in the engineering department of irish Rail, the loop line won’t be replaced, the engineers love it too much

True …………it’s a Victorian masterpiece in it’s own way……maybe then they should consider painting it in brighter colours as like the bridge down Talbot Street instead of drab grey….unless of course that’s the original intended colour.

the property section in today’s times seems to think that it will be taller than liberty hall, does anyone know for definite?

Going by the planning decision, the apex of the curved glass bit will be about a metre taller than Liberty Hall. The evaluation by an Bord Pleanala shows their surprising lack of data about the heights of the surrounding buildings:
http://www.pleanala.ie/REP/128/R128164.DOC

Altough the front of the building looks contemporary with plenty of reflctive glass I was wondering if anyone knows what the back will look like? living on townsend street 5 stories up we face directly into the back of it!! does anybody know and will it bring property prices down?

Somfy – Apartments on Townsend street are mostly sold on the benefits of the location rather than the view. So I would think that the further enhancement of the area should balance any degradation in the view. Particularly if Tara becomes the hub that it could be. Failing that townsend street can still sell itself on the finest deep fried snickers in Dublin (seashell).

Also, can anyone tell me the height of Liberty Hall?

Try here,
Literally

http://www.archeire.com/buildings_ireland/dublin/northcity/quays/eden/liberty_hall.html

Thanks, LOB.
“16 storeys and is 195 feet tall” which by my calculations is 60m.

I have been following this subject (Tara Street Redevelopment) closely for quite some time now and I must say I can’t wait to see it finally go up. I also must say the plans look great. It sort of reminds me of City Hall in Toronto. It would go well with One George’s Quay Plaza, which are a lovely set of buildings. So just when is it going to go up? I was on the DART the other day so I had a look down on to the Station’s ground level. Is something happening? I saw guys at work down there. I am very interested in seeing how they will manage to fit in such a building. It is a funny shape, yet nice. Build it quickly, get a move on! Dublin is screaming out for high rise!!!

Just read an article in the Sunday Business post last week that said that work won’t start on the site until September 2004, when the existing station will be demolished.

They also said that it won’t be finished until 2006 at the earliest. Apparently it needs to be finished before 2007 in any case, so it’s probably gonna be at least 3 years before you see anything worth looking at!

Oh my God!!! I am so tired of everything being done so slowly here in Ireland. When will they ever wake up and smell the roses eh? This delay will only give more time for people to moan and complain about this planned building over the station. They have already said that it will block out the sunlight!!! Oh how terrible it must be to block out the sun in a few streets. You’d sware by the way they all go on that blocking out the sun would kill a person! And by God the complainers are out there! Always trying to spoil it all for everyone else. Not even a care in the world that it is actually the younger generation who will be the ones to live with it instead of them. They should look ahead to the future. Do we want a boring city that remains unchanged or do we want a city that is part of the times? Dublin just seems to be one terribly boring and flat city. Well done lads!!! By the way, I think the trouble over O’ Connell Street is so sad. Who cares about a few trees. Ireland has loads of trees. What a sad excuse to delay the construction of a very worthwhile project. If it has to be done, replace the trees after the street is finished. I would prefer a clean city not a dirty one. The city is in a mess at the moment and has been for as far as I can remember. The nice buildings are all surrounded by ugly ones. For example opposite Hawkin’s House there is a lovely silver building which has an unusual shape. I am surprised it was allowed to be built, it’s lovely. What a pitty it is hidden away from view. There are several parts of Dublin where we could put these tall buildings. What is so bad about high rise???

I heard this project has been shelved? Tell me it ain’t so!!

AFAIK it has…

Until the office market picks up, I assume. Tara St. Station badly needs attention though – it’s a death trap.

anything to do with the mooted breakup of CIE prior to Brennan’s move. It woulod make sense not to commence a major real estate project if your company was going to be taken out from underneath you/

naz78 in an earlier post compared the Tara Street design to Toronto City Hall.

Working about 200m from there as I do, I can’t see the resemblence myself…

http://www.glasssteelandstone.com/BuildingDetail/81.php

when is the start date for this building. seems this has been taking years to get off the ground . i wonder if they are making allowances for the proposed underground station!?!

Its been a while since I heard anything about the tara street building. Is it still going ahead:confused:

CIE posted a tender yesterday (June 1, 2006) for the usual “Multi-Disciplinary Design Team for Consultancy Services” in relation to the Tara Street Station project. Seems like they want to revise the plan such that they can do the development without closing the station. So progress may be on the cards – although they are seeking 10 year planning permission, yet again. (We’re now almost 4 years into their previous planning permission period)

http://etenders.gov.ie/search/search_show.aspx?ID=JUN060091

I welcome the announcement that IE are seeking proposals to accommodate continuation of services during the construction phase; one hopes that the proposals are sensitive to the Custom House and that no grounded appeal can reasonably be taken.

Clearly I

According to this Tender Notice “CIE intend to modify the existing Scheme & submit a new application for planning Permission with the assistance of its consultant team; the revised design will facilitate the construction of the project without the necessity for closure of Tara Street Station”. Presumably this will involve either reducing the “footprint” of the building or coming up with a new design that can satisfy the health and safety and insurance interests. Best of luck!

can someone please post a pic of the original scheme that was granted permission in 2003?

thanks in advance

Possibly silly question…is it possible to view the proposed redevelopment somewhere? None of the images posted here are appearing for me.

Here you are; courtesy Pat Liddy: the changing landscapes of Dublin

So is this going ahead? [ATTACH]2459[/ATTACH]

i do hope it doesn’t . there is tremendous bulk to that design.

Why is it that places appropriate for highrise don’t have them, while enormous hulking towers like this get the go ahead.

In sandyford industrial estate several enormous towers were proposed along the luas line. these would have been ideal (if they had also proposed a park and a school etc etc. ). These ended up turned down . However recently a new enormous development in the industrial estate is proposed. of course it front the M50 and is as far as can be from the luas line. i would bet that it is allowed!

I agree a boyle, Im not a fan of this project either. The central section maybe but the side block looks very monolithic and bland. Also that retained pub looks plain ridiculous there. Its a protected structure though. (personal mental note: Im starting to develop a curious ambivalence to some protected structures….)

Personally I don’t think this scheme it will go ahead as there seems to be too much uncertainty around CIE at present. Some thing must be done with the site though, its a disgrace – and for a major Dublin station, Tara St is a shambles.

I think if we are going anyway tall in dublin it has to be slender, minimise impact
our narrow streets are not able to absorb relatively big bulky blocks
a smaller footprint with a taller tower could work better
i quite like the contrast of old and new with the bar in front

forgive my petulance , but i don’t think you fully apreciate the scale of this picture. The lower section is twice the height of the new irishtimes building. the taller section is a bit higher that liberty hall, but has substantially more bulk. Notice how the design of the taller section tries to pretend is is only 11/12 storeys high , when it is infact double / triple that number.

I have seen old three storey buildings abutted by skyscrapers in yankee land, the result is not pretty. one particular small church beside an office block in boston springs to mind.

Hopefully the housing market will collapse before what is in my opinion liberties part deux is put upon us.

from that render it looks about 12/13 floors but if your saying that its double or triple then thats a whole different story. way too bulky if thats the case

@a boyle wrote:

Why is it that places appropriate for highrise don’t have them, while enormous hulking towers like this get the go ahead.

Absolutely. That structure looks way too overpowering for the area it’s in, particularly if the renderings you’ve posted (thanks CM00/paul h) are showing it deceptively smaller than it would actually be.

If Dublin has to go tall, certainly slender would work better. Re the pub, it’s only the dwarfing aspect that bothers me, I like that old/new contrast too.

As for Tara St. Station itself, I was there for the first time in a long time a couple of weeks ago and was surprised at the state it was in. I was under the impression it had undergone renovations?? The only new element I noticed was an ‘under construction’ exit on the Howth-Greystones platform. Am I missing something?

The building was to be (will?) 12-ish storeys. Its design is 59m the same as Liberty Hall and Georges Plaza behind it (which I believe has 10 floors of office). I think that render is out of date, following the AnBP appeal, the bulk on the Tara St bit was removed as a condition of grant of planning.

@a boyle wrote:

forgive my petulance , but i don’t think you fully apreciate the scale of this picture. The lower section is twice the height of the new irishtimes building. the taller section is a bit higher that liberty hall, but has substantially more bulk. Notice how the design of the taller section tries to pretend is is only 11/12 storeys high , when it is infact double / triple that number.

I have seen old three storey buildings abutted by skyscrapers in yankee land, the result is not pretty. one particular small church beside an office block in boston springs to mind.

Hopefully the housing market will collapse before what is in my opinion liberties part deux is put upon us.

A boyle i hope you are not serious that you prefer to see our housing market collapse 😮 , probably the economy would follow, than to see this building go up????:confused: this is not a war a boyle! with victory at any cost

we need offices we need apartments the discussion is what kind of buildings they will be housed in

also while i’m here if the taller section is a bit higher than liberty hall
how could it be double or treble 11/12 floors high?

sorry for being unclear . the pat liddy drawing, shows a building which is substantially bigger than liberty hall.

the planners lopped of a load of floor and what was permitted was the same height at liberty hall.

I think that any highrise here is a terrible idea. we should be look towards eventually removing the loopline not reinforcing the effect of encroaching on the custom house , what should be the jewel in the city’s crown.

As for housing , well of course i don’t want the housing market to collapse. However for anyone still naive to think it won’t a recent research paper reported in the times did not make reasurring reading. 42 out of 42 house price booms in europe crashed in the last century. Our situation is probably closer to japan , where a decade of depression followed a decade of boom , because banks were left with huge amounts of bad debt that noone could pay.

We are a smaller (read tiny) and some of our banks are internationall meaning less pain for the banks.

When something is overvalued it comes back into line, and there are tears. How many we cant say. But if you have second houses off load what you can !!!

Just to clear things up, the building was altered slightly by ABP, but the height of the main section remained the same, at 60.4m and 14 storeys. The heights of the elevations to some streets were reduced. There was a proposal years ago for a very tall building on the site of the current somewhat tall building beside the station, but not for the station site itself.

Iarnrod Eireann revives Tara St plan

03 December 2006 By Ken Griffin
Iarnrod Eireann has revived plans for a €125 million office development at Tara Street Station in Dublin.

Iarnrod Eireann has revived plans for a €125 million office development at Tara Street Station in Dublin.

The proposed 14-storey office block is based on a proposal that received planning permission in 2002.

The project was scrapped, however, after it emerged that the station, which is the country’s busiest, would have to close for 18 months during the construction of the building.

The Sunday Business Post has learned that the company has revised these plans recently and is preparing to lodge a planning application for the development in mid-2007.

The new plans, which will allow the station to remain open during building work, will feature around 13,000 square metres of office space with a roof restaurant.

There will also be a basement car park with a limited number of parking spaces.

A spokeswoman for Iarnrod Eireann said the company hoped that the development would be self-financing and would also fund the cost of redeveloping the railway station.

She said work on the office block could begin as soon as early 2008.

However, the development is likely to be opposed by An Taisce and the Irish Georgian Society, which appealed the company’s previous proposal to An Bord Pleanala. On that occasion, the board approved the scheme subject to 16 conditions.

Iarnrod Eireann is planning to expand the retail space at Connolly Station by 400 square metres.

This development will involve the construction of an enlarged newsagents and two coffee docks with space for another retailer.

‘‘Given the prime location and the large footfall through the station, it is expected that there will be a high level of interest from retailers,” the spokeswoman said.

http://www.sbpost.ie/post/pages/p/story.aspx-qqqt=IRELAND-qqqm=news-qqqid=19396-qqqx=1.asp

http://www.irish-architecture.com/news/2006/000293.html

This one will be interestingas it is bound to set the precedent for the rest of Tara St back as far as College St

I pray that I am wrong but I bet it will look crap.

Any word on this development???

According to this it is going to be complete in 2009
http://skyscrapernews.com/buildings.php?id=1340

That looks like the old design which they dropped because building it would interfere with train operations. I thought they’d come up with a completely new design?

Yeah – they’re now going to close the station to build it. Before they were going to attempt keeping it open. I don’t think that impacts on the visual design though just the construction method.

It seems like a really bad idea to close the country’s busiest train station for something that could take a good while to build.

CIÉ intend that Tara Street will not be closed during the construction of the new building. They recently awarded a contract to Faber Maunsell (http://www.fabermaunsell.com/) to advise them on a new application (modifiying the existing permission) which would enable them to keep the station open.

Contract: http://www.etenders.gov.ie/Search/Search_Show.aspx?ID=FEB076414

double post – removed

Mentioned today in the commercial prop supplement in the times:

http://www.ireland.com/newspaper/commercialproperty/2007/0620/1181771384811.html

” The plans propose a 60.8 metre, 14-storey office tower above Tara Street Station. This includes a new 12 metre high €20 million station concourse with 13,000sq m (139,931sq ft) of office accommodation above in a landmark tower feature. The spokesman said the main focus ‘is to provide an improved concourse area that will cater for up to 14,500 passengers per hour at peak times’.”

The article also mentions a plan to build on the connelly station car park to provide a bus and coach station.