Dublin Historic Stone Paving disbelief

It’s terrible isn’t it?! You see it everywhere around the city. Combined with the rusty tones of the stones, it makes pavements look like dodgy 70s domestic cladding. And it’s not just secondary locations: the most famous ‘antique pavement’ in the city has been pasted in the muck – Trinity’s curved footpath on College Green:

and not only that but also the most appallingly insensitive additions and alterations:

Not even similar coloured slabs used at the crossing (as O’Connell St has proved, different coloured slabs are not required for the visually impaired), and just tossed down in any old fashion, Similarly the new pedestrian lights and security camera pole just shoved in with dollops of concrete.

And as for this outside the gates of Trinity:

What a disgrace.

We have here the departament of protection of cultural heritage in Lithuania. They are fierce protectors of everything in the list. Sometimes the prevent some changes, that in fact are really needed. But i can swerar, they would never ever allow souch a blasphemy here 🙂

Aah the aul perenial lump of tarmac and crappy grouting. Still things are getting better. Juts lokk at OConnell St with its fine new paving. It will be spanking in a couple more months. And isnt there a new maintaintenance regime inn place to help it stay like that. Well look a little closer…. the section from Abbey St to the Bridge. On the east the chaps are busily beavering away to complete the paving works while on the west side the paving has been in place since early this year. However the observant among you might notice the lovely patch at the junction with Abbey St ripped up for utility works of some sort and carefully replaced with… tarmac! And the roadway. The tarmac here was relaid a little better but they forgot one thing. The line of small cobbles that seperate the paving from the roadway all along the street. Sure they were only a gimick anyway.

BTW we also have a department for Heritage in Ireland sarcastic….you’d never think it though.

Oh, i am sorry if i made you think that way, I really didn’t mean to say that there was noone to care about thouse deeds.
I just wanted to note, that in my country this institution often pays alot of atention to souch things. Unfortunately there are cases, when the building or particular place is left to decay, instead of letting to modrenise it in some gentle way..

@StephenC wrote:

BTW we also have a department for Heritage in Ireland sarcastic….you’d never think it though.

The problem is not with the Dept of (against the) Environment, Heritage and Local Goverment in Ireland – it is with the lack of power they have to do anything about such things
priorities lie elsewhere in modern ireland I am afraid

Rte or one of the Newspaper’s needs to highlight this. It needs to be highlighted visually. Lot of folks don’t pay much heed to this as they rush around. Maybe Irish Business Against Litter should extend its brief!

I presume the Tidy towns don’t audit Dublin city centre. They’d probably recommend more hanging baskets!:p

i’m just thinking of all the bemused pedestrians wandering past people taking photos of footpaths.
also, yesterday morning, there were workmen going at the new cobbles on o’connell street, near hamilton long, with a jackhammer.

@magicbastarder wrote:

i’m just thinking of all the bemused pedestrians wandering past people taking photos of footpaths.
also, yesterday morning, there were workmen going at the new cobbles on o’connell street, near hamilton long, with a jackhammer.

😡 Somebody REALLY should be sent to prison for this type of vandalisn…or at least lose their job and be exposed as the culprit.

It’s great that this has been hilighted…..good one Devin and Graham. Looks as if apprentices of the Anco school of slab laying or should that be slab slaying were responsible. The foothpaths look a fecking mess and that diagonal cut in the slab looks really atrocious as has been pointed out.

A letter to the Irish Times can have a good impact. A letter to the council, local TD, councillor esp. the more visually aware ones like the Greens etc.

I’ve often wondered about the phenomenon below – you probably know what it is Devin.

It’s this roadway cobble-edging as pictured. You see it all over the north and south inner city of Dublin.
Are the cobbles the original surface that is left exposed to either side of the rest of the cobbled road that has been covered over in asphalt, or is the original cobbled surface dug up entirely and some cobbles just relaid as a quaint drainage system along the kerbline?

The crudeness of the laying, and the amost flush surface with the road covering would suggest the latter…

It’s a nice idea – I’m not suggesting we return to cobbled streets (was snickering at a pair of American women only yesterday trying to negotiate the Castle cobbles in heels :)). It’s a clever way of ‘keeping in touch’ with the past (assuming they are original), without having to sacrifice the convenience that modern developments offer us. Even as a relaid feature they are attractive.

Devon, thanks very much for such an interesting thread! It’s not something I’ve ever consciously thought about in great detail before, but it does highlight an issue that has very obviously (from the contributions) been overlooked by the relevant authorities.

Here in Edinburgh, the place is full of cobbled streets – original ones – that are indeed very pleasant to walk on.

Modern examples are quite sharp & uncomfortable to walk on though. Would this have been the case with todays ‘original/historical’ cobbles when first they were laid, or would they have been polished/smoothed to some degree?

Not much demand for second-hand taxis over here!! 😉

Setts are being dug up and relaid in the Cow’s Lane area at the minute – difficult to see how they’re gong back down, though it would appear to be in the typical toothy fashion.

Ship Street has lovely tightly knitted setts just walking over them today. Such a pleasure in contrast with Temple Bar.

Devin, you are right to pursue this. God is in the details.

@Graham Hickey wrote:

I’ve often wondered about the phenomenon below – you probably know what it is Devin.

It’s this roadway cobble-edging as pictured. You see it all over the north and south inner city of Dublin.
Are the cobbles the original surface that is left exposed to either side of the rest of the cobbled road that has been covered over in asphalt, or is the original cobbled surface dug up entirely and some cobbles just relaid as a quaint drainage system along the kerbline?

The crudeness of the laying, and the amost flush surface with the road covering would suggest the latter…

This is an extremely common phenomenon in modern suburban road building around Austria (do a lot of business over there so see it a lot). The street is tarmaced and then the drainage areas along the edge are lined with such cobbled areas. The cobbles are brand new. I cannot see any functional reason for this so perhaps it is just decorative and to give a better definition to the road area.

Could be just to make you slip on your bike on a frosty morning

Certainly more unity is required, though to be honest I’m surprised they even bothered to go with white granite kerbs of the same broad width – they’re not particularly common in the city on that scale, so at least they went to the effort.
But if they’re aware that they need kerbs of that width on the street, they they also know damn well that it’s antique granite that should be used along here, and that’s just presuming it wasn’t the latter they were replacing!

At least the white granite looks well, but it’s absolutely no excuse for a disjoined paving scheme, nor the replacement of priceless rust-tinged Irish kerbstones.

As an aside, I was looking at those very concrete lampposts on Leeson St the other day, wondering how long they’ll last. Will we give them a year to be replaced with silver repro muck?

@Devin wrote:

I am not having a go at Fas – they do a lot of good work. But, as Greg said earlier, that’s the metaphor which sums it up best: the Fas trainees being let loose unsupervised on the valuable antique pavments.

This is bloody awful. You’d think we’d have come further. Pointing is supposed to be secondary to stonework.

I suspect that that battle is lost. I agree it’s awful.

This lunchtime I took the attached pics (camera phone) – unbelievably they show repointing of the main entrance steps to Powerscourt Town House.

Maybe these are in private ownership – but the destruction wrought in public areas (in the name of DCC) is completely inexcusable.

This probably sounds preposterous but I have noticed posters mentioning that this white granite is permeable. Would anyone think it possible to artificiallypatinate/colour this stone in some sort of a bath of humic/tannic acid?. Could we leave batches of this awfully bland stone in monstrous vats of stewed tea!
This granite also seems very liable to chipping. A good place to observe this is the section of Talbot st. from Marlbourough place to the junction at nth Earl St. One side of the street is old stone, still in great nick, whilst the West side of the street is the new stuff that is already in rag order, chipped and stained beyond redemption by the looks of it.

HAve you been on to the Heritage Officer at DCC Devin? Perhaps they have an opinion on whats happening.

It’s bad enough that Dublin’s most important pavements are being used as a training ground for tradespeople, but the real shocking factor is not this – rather it’s the fact that this is how they’re being trained to do it! 😮
It beggars belief if the case.

This is what they’re doing in Barcelona’s Placa Cathedral. I spotted this last night as I walked through. Red X represents replacement req’d.

Ah sure a lick of tarmac would patch those up reall nice.

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So you think conservation standards are low in Dublin, huih?? Look at what was allowed on the steps of Galway Court House

@Seanselon wrote:

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So you think conservation standards are low in Dublin, huih?? Look at what was allowed on the steps of Galway Court House

😮 Even the hound looks depressed at this wanton act of vandalism.
I would love to post photographs (can’t figure how to do it yet) of the historic paving outside Cork City Hall being ripped up and dumped to allow for cheap, glassy, Spanish or Chinese slabs laid to match the junk laid in Patrick Street at the behest of our City Manager, Joe Gavin (remember him Galway?) 😮

Yeah, I remember him:-( I reckon The Courts Service are at least partly to blame as well though…

Absolutely.

What an ugly, bog standard drainage channel cover – could something more elegant and befitting of this location not be concocted?
It also highlights how striking this curve would be if executed as a lighting strip, marking out the plaza area at night and neatly merging old and new. A little more innovation is in order,

Oh no – so near yet so far, and right at the City Hall junction 🙁
Surely they have tons of original granite in storage!

The bollards are fancy, but are they needed? I thought it was DCC policy, or should that be best practice, to limit the alterations, i.e incisions, to original paving? In all fairness, if you’re walking along the kerbline with that vast extent of paving to walk on, you deserve to be clipped by a bus.

I note your image is sideways Devin – I presume your tourist camera just happened to accidentally take a picture next to the workmen while ‘testing’ it? Funny that, mine does the exact same for some reason.

@GrahamH wrote:

The bollards are fancy, but are they needed? I thought it was DCC policy, or should that be best practice, to limit the alterations, i.e incisions, to original paving? In all fairness, if you’re walking along the kerbline with that vast extent of paving to walk on, you deserve to be clipped by a bus.

Aimed more at drivers pulling up “for just a few minutes” I’d wager – give it 5 minutes it’d be full of white van men cracking the newly laid/restored surface

@Seanselon wrote:

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So you think conservation standards are low in Dublin, huih?? Look at what was allowed on the steps of Galway Court House

Jesus , that pointing job is an utter disgrace! The work of a ham fisted idiot!

@Seanselon wrote:

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So you think conservation standards are low in Dublin, huih?? Look at what was allowed on the steps of Galway Court House

😮

I too am only after noticing this… Desperate.

This should win some kind of award as to how not to do it – it really is the worst yet 🙁

@GrahamH wrote:

The bollards are fancy, but are they needed? I thought it was DCC policy, or should that be best practice, to limit the alterations, i.e incisions, to original paving? In all fairness, if you’re walking along the kerbline with that vast extent of paving to walk on, you deserve to be clipped by a bus.

Slightly off-topic, perhaps, but I wanted to highlight this nevertheless.

I’ve been mulling over this comment for the last couple of days, Graham, and I still can’t figure out whether you were being facetious or serious when you said pedestrians deserved to be hit by the bus if they walked too close to the edge. Usually, you’d put a smiley beside it to signify the gag, but there’s none. Equally, this isn’t the kind of comment I’d expect from you. Hence the query.

Speaking as a daily pedestrian, as someone who has been hit by the wing mirror of a bus on Clare Street as I was walking along the kerb (in the same direction as the bus, so I was hit from behind on the back of the head), and as someone who has a professional interest in pedestrian planning in Dublin, I disagree strongly with your statement.
This is the footpath, which is the designated area for walking. The walking area extends to the edge of the kerb. Period. No debate. Etc.
There is no law against walking on any part of the footpath (unless it’s an off-road cycle lane- a separate matter entirely). And there are no bonus points in life for walking further away from the carriageway.
If a bus hits a pedestrian who is walking on the footpath, the bus is automatically, a priori at fault- the implication being that the bus was too close to the pedestrians, which constitutes dangerous driving.
And (quite tenuous, I know) buses on this stretch of Dame Street should be leaving room for bikes on the inside.
Lastly (even more tenuous, perhaps), if someone walks down the middle of the road, drivers don’t have the right simply to run them over on the grounds that they were walking where they shouldn’t. Oh I’ve been tempted alright, such as when joggers take up the full width of the bike lane, to give them a fright, but I know that it’s not allowed. Simple as that.

I too have an issue with the bollards, but it’s more to do with their safety re cycling (in addition to their conservation implications). Many bollards and footpath guardrails in town are too close to the edge of the footpath and as a result jeapordise cyclists- one clip of the handlebar and you can say goodnight. One might argue that, if buses should move out from the kerb (as I advocated) then cyclists should too, but that ignores the provisions re cycle tracks and the safety of cyclists who aren’t in lanes where provided- I have too many examples of drivers trying to ‘educate’ me on where I should be riding, using their vehicles as teaching aids.

If I’ve misunderstood, sorry for the rant.

ctesiphon I could not agree with you more. Wing mirror clipping is a serious problem in the capital, with hideously dangerous consequences. As a committed pedestrian who frankly spends more time on the streets than off them, I’ve had countless near misses, with mirrors sweeping literally a hair’s breadth away: luckily never having been hit to date.

Without question the pavement ought to be a safe haven for pedestrians, from kerb to building line, but my point is that for good or bad this simply is not the reality on Dublin’s streets. Most fast moving narrow streets such as Dame Street, O’Connell Street, Nassau Street and Dawson Street are notoriously dangerous for vulnerable kerb walkers, myself included. It’s very frightening when you skip out onto the kerb, especially when in a rush, only to see a bus mirror heading straight for you – it is in this respect I refer to the self-held perception of invincibility of many pedestrians. In Dublin you simply cannot rely on authorities to protect you, with that intangible ‘protective’ municipal force lulling you into a false sense of security. You presume everything to be regulated and tightly planned, but it simply isn’t.

In fact I find bollards can be even more dangerous than their absence, as people continue to use the kerbline regardless, especially during peak times and/or due to the inadequate space allocated to the pedestrian in general in the city. Only when a wing mirror approaches with bollards, it’s even more difficult to avoid it, with the bollards forming a barrier to your getting back into the pavement, especially if walking fast which kerb walkers inevitably are. That mightn’t make sense on paper, but on a crowded evening pavement where everything is flashing and fast moving, it’s very easy to get tangled in a bollard and have your head taken off in the process.

And of course on what are already narrow pavements, rows of bollards simply consume even more space. It’s no wonder granite kerbs are an enduring feature of Dublin’s streets (even if Portuguese), not because they’re aesthetically pleasing but because they form an unofficial Iarnród Éireann-style ‘Keep behind This Line’ boundary.
Most bus drivers are conscientious and will keep their distance, but high speed pulling in to the kerb is probably the most dangerous and frightening procedure some drivers practice – it really needs to stop.

Interesting what you say about the impact on cyclists of street furniture so close to the road – what a nightmare this must be, especially where a cycle lane isn’t provided. Definitely a factor only a cyclist-planner would note. To get that implemented across all divisions within the council, from Lighting to Roads, would be a ‘challenging’ task. This is where the buzzword of joined-up thinking comes to the fore.

Believe me, I’m staunchly on the pedestrian’s side on this one.
Though as a driver, cyclist and pedestrian, I’d love to see the bitter rows you have with yourself 😀

‘Driver’? Take that back and wash your mouth out! Never in all my life have I been so insulted!:D
Seriously, no. I’m not one of them. Do you really think I could stay up on my high horse as long as I have if I were able to drive?

Thanks for the clarification- I was starting to worry that you’d ‘crossed the floor’. I still think ‘deserve’ is inappropriate, but your main point re regulation and common sense is well made. However, I’d be of the opinion that if there are points of conflict between pedestrians and motorised traffic then something should be done re the traffic rather than expect the pedestrians to just know what to do.

In pedestrian planning generally, I think it’s instructive to consider two categories of path user- MID (Mobility-Impaired / Disabled) and tourists. If we can accommodate both of these user categories, then all the others are accommodated too.

Anyway- glad we cleared this up. Now to get back to the dismal state of the capital’s historic footpaths.

So why were bollards deemed necessary here?

’cause they’re stainless steel and so by definition (like covering areas with cheap granite, plonking down useless kiosks and plazifying open areas), sticking them into the footpath is cool and adds credibility to the scheme and shows that DCC are forward looking. :rolleyes:

Oh you mean in terms of providing function or form or complementing for historic urban fabric? I’ve no idea.

Re cheap foreign granite-

There was a fascinating programme on BBC Radio 4 last night about the growth in the use of Indian granite in the UK. Though not exactly parallel, I’m guessing there would be many similarities between this story and the use of our beloved Chinese granite in Ireland.

The question of human rights loomed pretty large in the programme, as well as the ethics of importing stone from an unregulated foreign industry, though the programme did point out that there are pros and cons for both sides in the ‘to buy or to boycott’ debate.

One can only presume that all of these points have been considered by Dublin City Council and other bodies that use the stuff.:rolleyes:

From a quick glance at the R4 homepage, it would seem that the programme is being repeated today at 3pm. If you can’t make it, I think the BBC usually has a ‘Listen Again’ function for a week after a show is broadcast.

Have a look here: http://www.bbc.co.uk/radio4/science/costingtheearth_20070104.shtml

EDIT: Yup- there’s a ‘Listen Again’ button just over the picture of the presenter on that page.

@jimg wrote:

’cause they’re stainless steel and so by definition (like covering areas with cheap granite, plonking down useless kiosks and plazifying open areas), sticking them into the footpath is cool and adds credibility to the scheme and shows that DCC are forward looking. :rolleyes:

Oh you mean in terms of providing function or form or complementing for historic urban fabric? I’ve no idea.

Oh Mmmeeooow – and yet so spot on.

Balls is what I say! Big granite balls that would achieve the same effect (whatever that is – suspect prevent vehicles mounting pavement) without having to cut into the existing slabs…

Ah ctesiphon – “costing the earth”; an excellent programme on an excellent station – had thought I was the only Irish person under 60 who listens to R4! 🙂

even tubs of flowers would do the same thing, but probably not architectural enough for the planners / architects department… not mad keen on the silver bolllards to be honest

@Paul Clerkin wrote:

even tubs of flowers would do the same thing, but probably not architectural enough for the planners / architects department… not mad keen on the silver bolllards to be honest

Lets face it have you ever seen large flower pots in cities that havent eventually been turned into an ash tray / rubbish bin. We are our own worse enemy in that regard.
Is there another sollution?

@Istigh wrote:

Lets face it have you ever seen large flower pots in cities that havent eventually been turned into an ash tray / rubbish bin. We are our own worse enemy in that regard.
Is there another sollution?

Yep – mandatory hand amputation of litter blighters 😀

@jimg wrote:

’cause they’re stainless steel and so by definition (like covering areas with cheap granite, plonking down useless kiosks and plazifying open areas), sticking them into the footpath is cool and adds credibility to the scheme and shows that DCC are forward looking. :rolleyes:

Oh you mean in terms of providing function or form or complementing for historic urban fabric? I’ve no idea.

heheheh 😀

Explains matters precisely! Just look at the above image again and see how it cordons off vechicular and pedestrian spaces in a way that has time and time again been raised as an undesirable feature in urban planning. Fair enough in semi-industrial places, or those featuring heavy goods traffic, but on a commercial street in the heart of the historic city?! They’re simply being used here to ‘finish it off nicely’, with no real purpose, while irreversably damaging historic paving. The same disasterous mess can be seen outside the doors of Trinity from an array of interventions over the years, while two temporary traffic camera poles in this area do the same.

Admittedly some incisions can be interesting, for example you can still see where the gas lampposts and first electric arc lamps stood through the scars in the paving on College Green (I’ve yet to match those exactly :)), but these bollards are so short-sighted from the presepctive of taming Dame Street in 5-10 years time.

As structures though they are pretty cool and work well with the granite I think – for the moment at least the steel finish doesn’t detract from it. That lamppost base there could do with a wipe down after all that construction work…

As for imported stone, is a lot of Dublin white granite not Portugese? Henry Street I think was paved in Chinese. Ethical considerations are certainly something to bear in mind with these public projects – quarry child labour in India in particular has been a problem for a while now since the stone boom took off, whatever about the ecological impact.

I don’t know what the intention was with this. This must constitute one of the most pointless interventions in a long time. This type of thing has been happening on a smaller scale across the city for a number of years as more and more parking control signs are errected.

However time has definitely come for a code of practice to be imposed on the roads department on this issue.

This is not asking a lot; what percentage of the overall percentage of kerbs and internal paving stock as a whole are we talking about 5% or less.

A simple code of practice would only stipulate that where granite kerbs are authentic that any signage must be approved by the City Councils own conservation officer. In most location signage or bollards could be placed into the replaceable imported granite or comncrete slabs.

The key issue here is the protection of un-replaceable elements of the built environment. The difference between a quality destination and a mediocre one are always the subtle touches. This intervention is about at subtle as a cavity block.

@PVC King wrote:

The key issue here is the protection of un-replaceable elements of the built environment. .

Exactly what matters.

“Wing mirror clipping is a serious problem in the capital, with hideously dangerous consequences”

Indeed. Very many bus shelters in Dublin actually leave little space to pass between shelter and kerb,

I have regularly noted near misses between late arriving passengers and the wing mirrors of late arriving buses, as they diced with death while passing this limited space between shelter and kerb.

If you ever cross from the St Stephen’s Green corner (near the Shelbourne) the new one way alignment for city bound buses puts wing mirrors ready to catch the unwary pedestrian standing too close – and they regularly do.

By the way, there is a nice array of bollards in varying styles, in Merrion Row – indeed it is hard to walk down the south side of it against any pedestrian traffic.

Aside from a few glitches such as the bollards issue and the running short of some granite, the standard of work to the historic paving in the City Architect’s Department new Dame Street plaza project was good, and stands in contrast to an earlier project of theirs next door – the millennium restoration of City Hall.

Hmmm I certainly dont feel happy about any aspect of the plaza and pavemnet works around this new building. 😡 Leaving aside the building itself I think the works that have been undertaken show a staggering lack of thought and design. Firstly mixing the orignal paving with a newer type looks like a dogs dinner. A similar compalint is made today on Archiseek about Hernietta Street. Why not either one or the other! And the fixtures and fitting are so bland and utilitarian – nondescript grates and bollards – what ever happened to beauty! I would also be highly critical of the way the plaza is laid out. for example why wasnt Palace Street repaved to provide a shared surface for predestrains and allow for an imporved entrance in to the Castle. This is after all the MAIN ENTRANCE! into Dublin Castle. And why are cars allowed part here. A similar decision was taken on the other side between the ‘plaza’ and City Hall. Why not completely pave this area in a unified and coherent way? I would also question the lighting and the lack of greenery. In fact the only token sob to greenery are the 4 sapling at the back to the square…surely these days we can plant semi-mature trees that at least have a presence from the beginning rather than in 20 years time!

Its a complete waste and getting the joining between some paving salbs right does nothing to redeem it in my mind.

Thirded – the ever-present rank of cars and white vans outside the gates of the Castle on Palace Street is an embarrassment. Can you just imagine this outside any tourist site in a European city, let alone a principal one in a capital – and leaving aside any historical factors. Coupled with the new shower cubicle cliff face opposite, and limited pedestrian provision, visitors really must question if they’ve come to the right place entering this dingy hole, especially upon being greeted with what’s probably the largest suface car park in the city centre inside the entrance gates.

I agree the contrast with the existing antique paving and the new plaza surface works well, as the old granite logically continues the line of the street’s pavement, especially as it gracefully sweeps round to Palace Street.
As such however, I feel a more befitting, darker (perhaps bronze coloured) drainage grid ought to have been used to distinguish the two areas than the horribly cheap galvanised yoke used. It’s certainly a dog’s dinner at the City Hall end, where antique granite runs out – it’s incoherent areas like these that give otherwise decent projects a bad name.

Beautiful north pavement picture Devin – thanks goodness it wasn’t touched.

Spotted this morning at the corner of Ship St Great and (I think) Stephens St Upper – at the back of Dublin Castle.

Seems like old granite paving taken up and piled in a heap – hopefully it will be replaced.

Will keep an eye on it.

O Dear.

This morning the excavation was filled in and the old granite paving slabs had disappeared.

Hopefully, as it is a semi-state body doing the work (ESB) they have been taken away for cleaning prior to replacement? :confused:

Bugger that – image sideways!

@publicrealm wrote:

O Dear.

This morning the excavation was filled in and the old granite paving slabs had disappeared.

Hopefully, as it is a semi-state body doing the work (ESB) they have been taken away for cleaning prior to replacement? :confused:

Today’s image :confused:

Maybe it’s temporary..? 😮

@publicrealm wrote:

Today’s image :confused:

WTF?

There’s no excuse for this 😡

City Development Plan – Conservation Area Policy H13

“It is the policy of DCC to protect…the historic fabric of conservation areas in the control of development”

Maybe this isn’t a C.A. – sure its only abutting Dublin Castle afterall :rolleyes:

@hutton wrote:

WTF?

There’s no excuse for this 😡

City Development Plan – Conservation Area Policy H13

“It is the policy of DCC to protect…the historic fabric of conservation areas in the control of development”

Maybe this isn’t a C.A. – sure its only abutting Dublin Castle afterall :rolleyes:

It’s so bad I actually believe it cannot be as it seems.

I intend to chase DCC on Monday to get to the bottom – I actually can’t believe that the ESB would operate in such an irresponsible manner (or that DCC would let them). Call me old fashioned…:D

BTW – I checked and it’s not in a Conservation Area!

That’s so pathetic that I had to check and see if it was April fools day:( Terrible.

Given the relative ‘neatness’ of the job, with expansion joints apparently included, this would appear to be permanent…

Absolutely no excuse for this. And even if the surface is temporary, it is wasteful and unnecessary in its own right. The displaced granite could easily be cleaned and repaired as service works were underway within the trench, both conserving resources and minimising disruption to the public. And look at that shameful pile of granite: nothing numbered, nothing protected from slippage. Disgraceful job.

Aren’t the bollards supposed to stop you opening the car door?

Precisely Walker. And this pavement is also one of the worst examples in the city of the practice. Not only is it unsightly to look at, it’s also very uncomfortable in any leather-soled shoe – now I know why the princess whinged so much about that pea. You can feel every clumsy ridge in the pavement as you walk over them. And the bollards are absolutely ridiculous – they serve no function whatsoever. Indeed DCC shot themselves in the foot there, because countless taxis pull up at the side door to allow visitors and delegates into City Hall – one would wonder how many near misses with car doors they’ve had.

To add fuel to the fire, last Sunday a bunch of yellow jackets were grouped around a hole they dug in the centre of this very roadway pictured below, apparently changing a drain in the centre. They then ‘finished’ up the job with enormous splodge of tarmac, well over a metre square, dumped smack bang in the middle of the cobbled roadway, right in front of the main entrance to the Castle, City Hall and the Newcomen Bank. And it’s still there a week later.
Even if these surfaces are ‘temporary’, there’s still absolutely no excuse for the original surface not to be immediately reinstated.

Incidentally the photo posted by Devin there shows one of the most charming sitings of a lamppost in the entire city – this swan neck one on the corner from c.1903.

@Devin wrote:

I love how it stands so precariously on top of the hill at the very edge of the pavement, especially as you approach from below, and how it so effectively lights the corner too. By its very appearance it is suggestive of developing there organically, simply replacing post after post on the same site. And if we even needed photogrphic evidence, here is the corner around 1900 with its arc-lamp predecessor, installed on all the main streets of Dublin in 1892 🙂

So this almost certainly makes it the oldest surviving post of all the main commercial streets in the entire city! It never fails to astound how a truck hasn’t ploughed into it somewhere along the line. Bizarrely it’s now more at risk from DCC than it is from a runaway vehicle.

Apologies to Devin et al if this has been covered in this thread already but the west side of merrion square from the national gallery entrance to the junction with clare st is in an awful state and worthy of pictorial commentary at the moment-the usual globs of tarmac around new water mains ,cement bodges etc. on what is one of the few remaining extant ‘carpets’ of wicklow granite paving apart from the southside of Molesworth st.and the southside of fitz sq.that I am aware of.

This is obscene! It’s truly unbelieveable! 😮

Whatever about one-off instances (even the above taken on a singular basis), it truly beggars belief that an infrastructural scheme that affects so many historic areas doesn’t even have guidelines, let alone a plan or framework for dealing with these historically precious places. It’s like ploughing Luas through a Georgian street without drawing up an EIS, let alone conditions of construction.

What is the exact status of this ‘listing’ of pavements, because the Record doesn’t include them, while the Development Plan doesn’t expressly mention protection either (as in PS status). So is the only recourse left open to complainants after the local authority to contact the Minister and force the enaction of the Plan?

You have to love it:

“In recognition of the importance of these features and the pressure placed on them from road and paving works, Dublin City Council will seek to preserve, repair and retain in situ historic streetscape and paving features of heritage value which are set out in Appendices 8, 9, and 10.”

Devin – who should complaints be addressed to? What’s the most useful approach to take?

Can they not access these utilities by shifting the works 1 ft to the right, so many are on the edge of the pavement, they wouldn’t even be disrupting traffic, just a single parking space temporarily. There they can make as much mess as they like & leave the shaggin pavement intact.

@Devin wrote:

Lotts,
Des Callaghan of the Waterworks Dept. – 2224397 – is in charge of the job. Also the senior engineer for the area – seamus.duffy@dublincity.ie. And the Heritage Officer – donncha.odulaing@dublincity.ie – whose is officially in charge of listed street furniture.
Do complain. I’ve found out that the Georgian Society, whose office is on Merrion Square, have also been onto the council about it, but the more hassle they get, the better.

Thanks very much. I’ll certainly follow up with them on this matter.

The delightful scene presented to those attending the Urbanism conference in the Castle during the week.

At least the widening works of the Olympia pavement opposite are finally underway.

Beautiful cycle lane. These cyclists have it too good.

@GrahamH wrote:

The delightful scene presented to those attending the Urbanism conference in the Castle during the week.

[

un be fucking lievable. The sheer ignorance of it!

@GrahamH wrote:

Beautiful cycle lane. These cyclists have it too good.

Has to be one of the worst stretches of roadway in the city as well. Its littered with potholes. An absolute scandal.

I have added my voice to others with an email to the Heritage Officer…I won’t hold my breath…..:(

That kind of carry on is just shameful. By the way, when making a complaint to the council, I have this advice. Calling them on the phone is a waste of time…such a call is never recorded nor kept on file so saying that you called them many times cuts no ice. Best to actually send a letter (preferably registered) so that the council actually have to acknowledge it and file it. Keep on sending them a letter on a regular basis and you would be amazed at the results. I found it was the only way Cork County Council would react to complaints….after 50 letters they can be shamed into actually doing something. Also, letters from community groups or resident associations/professional groups tend to carry more weight. If you have a valid complaint (and the massacre of Dublin’s pavements certainly qualifies) then the council needs to be shamed into changing their ways.

Great Thread,if only to underline my long held belief that nothing short of a total demobilization of Dublin City Council and all its works (Except the Parks Dept) will save the day.

The problem is essentially one of ACTUAL vs NOTIONAL responsibility.
Not one of the City Council`s assemblage of Senior Administrators and Engineering Professionals will have a single cent deducted from their wagepackets for authorising and presiding over sloppy,second rate and downright negligent work.

In fact the time honoured established Civil Service dictum “Promote out of Harms way” will doubtlessly come along any day now.

I say bring on Mr Wallace and let him have a stab at it….after all “It`s a Beautiful Game” or at least it is to DCC`s executive branch !! :p

@ake wrote:

un be fucking lievable. The sheer ignorance of it!

The architects of ancient Rome would surely turn in their tombs if they saw the progress made in over two millenium by contemporary DCC craftsmen!! 😮

New offender spotted – this time at the NE end of North Great Georges St, outside circa no. 45; a couple of honey glazed slabs replaced by inappropriate shiny granite, spoiling the otherwise commendable restoration of a house. For what its supposed to be worth, the current City Development Plan both designates N Georges St as a Conservation Area and has specific policies directed at conservation of pavement features 😡

@Ciaran wrote:

That’s so pathetic that I had to check and see if it was April fools day:( Terrible.

I noted at the weekend that the road at Stephens Street Upper (adjacent the recently removed granite footpath paving area) was being resurfaced and the top layer had been stripped off in readiness.

This exposed a very substantial area of well laid and very attractive stone sets, laid diagonally and interwoven with a concrete surface.

Don’t know when they date from and I didn’t have a camera – so they are now reburied under new tarmac for another 100 years.

I suppose we should be grateful that they are still there :confused:

@publicrealm wrote:

I suppose we should be grateful that they are still there :confused:

…and that Dick Roche didn’t give direction for them to be be preserved by record. 😉

:p

What a shame – they sound most interesting publicrealm.

Curiously, around the corner the setts outside City Hall/Castle gate are also being relaid now, over a month after they were first dug up. Why the delay? And why the questionable manner of relaying?

As can be seen from before, the whole roadway leading up to the gate is laid with typically dodgy widely-spaced setts, instead of attractively (and more comfortably for both pedestrian and driver) knitted tightly together. While not a major breach – heck we’re lucky to have setts here at all – it nonetheless demonstrates the usual lack of attention to detail and appreciation of a traditional craft, as per granite paving pointing and bollardism. Many of the gaps are also just filled with rough dirt, poured tar and concrete. Indeed the sham of these setts is also shown by the fact of their termination in a ridiculous straight line at the top of the hill along the edge of the Castle entrance – they don’t even continue into Castle Street to give a bit of visual breathing space. It’s embarrassingly cheap, half-hearted and visually incoherent.

Cork Hill really has been fecked over in the past five years, and all details – from pavements, to roadway surface, to yellow lines, to lampposts, to bollards – now need attention. The fact that it’s all on the doorstep of City Hall says it all really. And seperately, the Castle gate piers have also sadly lost their lamps in the past few years; they nicely terminated the vista up the hill and created something of a dramatic entrance.

3/7/2007

Well, like clockwork, poor old Parks and Planters have been called out to save the day yet again in the case of the City Hall Plaza – only even their usual sensitive works aren’t safe from the blight of meagre resources. We now have bloated leafy wedding cakes fashioned from recycled 1980’s McDonald’s chairs dumped about the space in an attempt to enliven this sterile ‘civic amenity’.

The finesse and consideration for the historic setting is striking.

They’re utterly awful. Whereas I’d welcome any softening of the space, these just hammer home the point of how this area has been appalling designed from the outset. Can you just imagine a similar, supposedly tailor-made, architect-designed space in any other European city being scattered with frumpy floral planters? It’s akin to labouring over designs for a Meisian-inspired house and then putting up net curtains. And even the type of planter chosen here speaks volumes: I’ve seen better local authority models in regional towns! Not even half-decent timber or stone models used.

Meanwhile on the historic granite paving fronting the plaza, further incisions have been made in the stone to accommodate more of these ghasty yokes generously termed litter bins.

So not only are they hideous in their own right and in the historic setting, they also damage the paving on which they’re sited, are located in the wrong place for users of the plaza seating to avail of, and are plonked right in the way of pedestrians on this often crowded pavement! And why three in a row – in case you don’t see the first two?!

What a mess: even after all the controversy over Robocop and the sterile square they still can’t get it right. And the place isn’t even finished yet either – the railings are still there shielding the sticks that were planted ages ago.

Just as an aisde, as some consolation, there’s been a lovely job done with the planters on the Boardwalk. They’ve all been stained a more elegant dark shade, and have attractive architectural ferns with floral displays planted in them.

A faintly exotic, Victorian whiff has been added to the Boardwalk. Nice job Parks Dept.

Mmmm. Lovely. And the sensitivity with which the square holes for the trees were created is deserving of the highest praise too.

I’m thinking of mounting an assault on the DCC toolshed to steal all the circular saws- who’s with me?

Did anyone see the plans for the plaza prior to construction ? I find it hard to believe that what we have now could have amounted to any kind of coherent landscape design for a major public space on paper;

bland granite paving (poorly laid in some odd random pattern)
raised granite seating (some merit in themselves but for fuck sake, more granite)
4 carpinus trees (these twigs have to be an after thought, they wouldn’t cost more than 50 Euro each)

and thats it ?

I imagine DCC abandoned ship on whatever was proposed for the plaza once the botched new landmark emerged from the scaffold … the plaza, in fact the whole feckin project, really is dreadful.

I was walking up Dame Street when I happened upon this allegory.

Boo hoo.

Oh, wait…

*** *** ***

I noticed on Dame Street today that there must have been one of those cascading planters left over from their insertion in the ‘plaza’ as one has landed at the top of Cow’s Lane. Or maybe it was making a break for freedom…?

@ctesiphon wrote:

Mmmm. Lovely. And the sensitivity with which the square holes for the trees were created is deserving of the highest praise too.

I’m thinking of mounting an assault on the DCC toolshed to steal all the circular saws- who’s with me?

And what about the Lilliputian trees themselves !
DCC couldn’t have found any smaller if they tried; the trees will probably be fully grown in say…150 years :confused:

@GrahamH wrote:

3/7/2007
What a mess: even after all the controversy over Robocop and the sterile square they still can’t get it right. And the place isn’t even finished yet either – the railings are still there shielding the sticks that were planted ages ago.

Nice photos GrahamH – As if the new building wasn’t bad enough, it’s poor design is complimented with egually poor ‘landscaping’.
The attempt at a tree lined avenue leading up to the rear entrance flight of steps flies in the face of aescetic values. A child with a decent range of lego pieces could make more of this space.
What’s missing?
1. A decent bench with back support. I suppose the idea with the square blocks is that if enough people sit on them and all lean back at the same time they can use each other for support!
2. A focal point of interest – the central area here has been dedicated to spotted ‘seats’ and wedding cake planters. There could have been a central feature of interest around which the seats etc could have been arranged.
3. An ashtray stand for those who have the consideration to use them – there should be one there at least
4. Materials used should suggest a welcome atmosphere not cold bare industrial sanitised hardness on the eye.
5. An overall shape which dictates the placement of individual elements – the seats are in a square matrix pattern yet the planters are randomly placed out of sync making it look disorderly overall.

Also, the area between the seats and the wall to the right (incl. the tree lined avenue) space has been wasted here. More mature trees should have been introduced and dotted over the entire public area not kept to the back in a cluster

As for bins……….
The capacity of the new bin is quite small compared to the old large black type – One larger is better than 3 smaller, it’s unecessary triple maintenance and further clutter of our fine hand crafted flagstoned streets. The damage done to the granite in introducing these grey daleks is irreversible and criminal.

Further, these flagstones should be worthy of protected structure status – which would in theory then require a planning application to carry out work on them. Then at least the public could participate in the decision making process!

ah sure who’ll notice … :rolleyes:

slightly off topic, but have a good look … !

well maybe not so off topic … they’ve made shit of the place, while installing the shit bollards, never mind the shit paving.

now ye have it 😀

@Peter FitzPatrick wrote:

slightly off topic, but have a good look … !

Nice piece of Photoshop 😉

is that photoshopped????

if not they really live up to the sterotype of a council worker…. thanks for the laugh…

ah that went round a few weeks ago… either there was just enough room or the mini hiace is now “public art”

Where is that Peter

it’s in the UK – note the British Rail logo on the sign

Also they could be the locing bollards which can be lifted – sorry to ruin the gag

Agree about the shit paving job though

@Peter FitzPatrick wrote:

ah sure who’ll notice … :rolleyes:

slightly off topic, but have a good look … !

[IMG]http://www.webeireann.com/archiseek/bollards_ifsc.jpg[/IG]

well maybe not so off topic … they’ve made shit of the place, while installing the shit bollards, never mind the shit paving.

now ye have it 😀

That’s a photoshop job. 🙂

The forward i got said it was from the ifsc, not a chance, definitely uk somewhere …

very observant picking out the Brittish Rail logo on the sign Rory :;)

If Morlan says its a photoshop job, thats good enough for me !!

Am I the only one who doesn’t get this? 😮

@GrahamH wrote:

Am I the only one who doesn’t get this? 😮

That van isn’t a permanent feature, Graham!

It’s been going around a lot of UK forums titled “Irish builders”. A fitting title considering Devin’s investigations.

I still don’t geddit.

Is the sand supposed to have fallen out of the van or what?

(lol)

@GrahamH wrote:

I still don’t geddit.

Is the sand supposed to have fallen out of the van or what?

(lol)

😀 No Graham, the sand didn’t fall out of the van.

How will they get the van out when they’re done?

ahhhhhhhhh…..

3/6/2008

Is this the latest ‘random’ artistic installation for the city centre?

Or is DCC trying to make a tongue-in-cheek statement adjacent to the most frequented tourist attraction in the city?

The mind boggles…

A dry run for the Olympics? Photo pedestals for the tourists? I don’t get it.

Also, I can’t believe they’re still pushing those g-dawful setts.

Nit-picky perhaps, but I was just passing watching the tourists scrambling about vieing for space with passing hoards of pedestrians, and observed firstly how utterly ridiculous these yokes look, secondly how ugly they are, thirdly how insensitively positioned they are in a tourist hotspot, and fourthly the obstacle they presented right in the middle of the busiest footpath in the city. Just no thought.

Going back to the title of the thread, having recently heard a speech (though more of a passionate rant) on Irish limestone from one of the two producers left in Kilkenny, the extraordinary fact emerged that at least 50% of their output goes straight onto boats to the Netherlands. They cannot get enough of Irish limestone, and are willing to pay for it in spite of their own native resource – albeit somewhat inferior. Irish limestone is proving particularly popular for sea defences, but also for paving and quite highly engineered interlocking municipal paving systems that are expensive to produce. They spend significant sums on paving in the Netherlands, deeming it to be an improving, cost-eflective, long term investment.

And yet we don’t even use the stuff here! Indeed in Kilkenny there’s a row brewing over proposals to use Chinese granite from the other side of the world to repave the city centre, rather than native limestone from the outskirts of the town. It was noted that too often municpal authorities in Ireland just see figures on a sheet and the bottom line, and nothing of the wider costs – social, economic and environmental – of trucking the alternative half way across the planet from potentially dubious sources. Once these factors are considered, our own little narrow world of penny-pinching dissolves into insignificance.

Apparently there’s also a reluctance to use limestone for paving: it often being deemed to be too slippery and not abrasive enough, whereas it is generally more than adequate in its natural state and especially so if a machine-punched finished is given.

It’d be great to see more native limestone paving the capital’s streets. You see the odd freak blue limestone kerb that stands out beautifully even against concrete, but that’s about the height of it. We really need to take both the longer term and wider view on this issue.

@GrahamH wrote:

Nit-picky perhaps, but I was just passing watching the tourists scrambling about vieing for space with passing hoards of pedestrians, and observed firstly how utterly ridiculous these yokes look, secondly how ugly they are, thirdly how insensitively positioned they are in a tourist hotspot, and fourthly the obstacle they presented right in the middle of the busiest footpath in the city. Just no thought.

Going back to the title of the thread, having recently heard a speech (though more of a passionate rant) on Irish limestone from one of the two producers left in Kilkenny, the extraordinary fact emerged that at least 50% of their output goes straight onto boats to the Netherlands. They cannot get enough of Irish limestone, and are willing to pay for it in spite of their own native resource – albeit somewhat inferior. Irish limestone is proving particularly popular for sea defences, but also for paving and quite highly engineered interlocking municipal paving systems that are expensive to produce. They spend significant sums on paving in the Netherlands, deeming it to be an improving, cost-eflective, long term investment.

And yet we don’t even use the stuff here! Indeed in Kilkenny there’s a row brewing over proposals to use Chinese granite from the other side of the world to repave the city centre, rather than native limestone from the outskirts of the town. It was noted that too often municpal authorities in Ireland just see figures on a sheet and the bottom line, and nothing of the wider costs – social, economic and environmental – of trucking the alternative half way across the planet from potentially dubious sources. Once these factors are considered, our own little narrow world of penny-pinching dissolves into insignificance.

Apparently there’s also a reluctance to use limestone for paving: it often being deemed to be too slippery and not abrasive enough, whereas it is generally more than adequate in its natural state and especially so if a machine-punched finished is given.

It’d be great to see more native limestone paving the capital’s streets. You see the odd freak blue limestone kerb that stands out beautifully even against concrete, but that’s about the height of it. We really need to take both the longer term and wider view on this issue.

I may have mentioned it here before but I was flabbergasted to hear the same anecdote from a Tobermore sales rep a few years ago. He also stated that chineses granite is cheaper than ANY locally produced paving material. Prompts the obvious speculation about the lack of labour costs in chinese quarries… I know it is easier to cut as it is such a uniform material but if tonne for tonne it’s cheaper than even the crappest suburban driveway material it is going to appeal to the pple who control the purse strings in local authorities,

12/7/2008

And so the trowel merchants strike again, this time on the most prestigious antique granite pavement in the city – outside City Hall.

Over the past year/18 months the subject area on the footpath just outside the west portico has been variously dug up and cordoned off, dug up and filled with tarmac, and even on one occasion about to be filled with concrete slabs until clearly someone higher up the chain decided that perhaps plugging a hole outside City Hall and Dublin Castle with concrete just may not be appropriate – but rather leaving it for yet another six months filled with more tarmac would be. And so it was.

Over a year since digging this hole first ensued, the city has now been left with this masterpiece of masonry work.

Given the surrounding joints are already too large as seen at the top, this image gives some idea as to the thickness of the ‘pointing’ employed.

In places there’s actually more mortar than granite substrate.

While ridiculous scrappy little pieces of stone have been chopped up to fill a gap, which makes about as much sense in the wider expanse of paving as employing a patch of mosaic in a tiled floor.

I absolutely dispair at what is happening to the supposedly protected pavements in this city. A major report on the city’s street paving including inventory, recommendations for protection and conservation, and international best practice has just been comissioned by DCC – the only scrap of hope out there at the moment. Whether there will be anything left by the time it comes to be published and implemented is another matter…

Also the ravishing state of affairs to the Dame Street side of City Hall. The junction further up is particularly poor.

Also there is an obsession with maintenance staff for power-hosing the side steps, as well as the balustrading fronting Parliament Street. Not only does it look awful and completely ridiculous, it’s causing irreparable damage to the soft Portland stone in the case of the latter. They never stop cleaning around here, and it’s completely unsustainable.

Do they’ve nothing better to be doing, such as painting the windows of City Hall that haven’t been touched since the restoration eight years ago and are peeling like a troup of Brits on a sun holiday to Marbella.

Priorities, priorities…

Does anyone know what exactly is the material used to pave the area outside the Lord Edward on Christ Church Place? Looks like granie setts, I’m told.

Thank you

Looks like a cut & paste from Bernard Feilden.

So far fetched, it could only ever be aspirational.

@Devin wrote:

There was a nice environmental improvement job done at the bottom of North Great George’s Street last year, possibly under DCC Architect’s Division (?). Tree planting, pavement widening, a shared surface, and integrating the historic granite paving sucessfully, with appropriate pointing in a sand-lime mix (akin to the work done on Capel Street). Not quite David Norris’s gates idea, but some civic improvement anyhow.

That’s a good paving job by the council which adds to the area. I never thought I’d be saying that about paving done in Town. The trees are a nice touch and the paving is well-executed. It just shows what a difference proper paving and street furniture make to the urban fabric. If this little example could be replicated across the city Dublin would be a far more attractive place to live in. Hopefully a re-paving job like this will be part of the government’s jobs initiative announced yesterday.

btw, is that an actually used pole in the foreground or another useless bit of clutter?

@Morlan wrote:

http://www.flickr.com/photos/infomatique/5681332829/sizes/l/in/photostream/

A frankly bizarre high concept scheme for this space which really only requires a well executed scheme that shows traditional city paving and setts to its best effect. The scheme which intended to suggest the flow of the River Poddle using limestone with modern granite and finishes completing the scheme to match the nearby Barnados Square. The small amount of Wicklow granite paving that remains is to be preserved in situ like some relic of the rare aul times. The effect, as ever, will be an incoherent mismatch of about 5 or 6 different paving styles and materials when the adjoining sections are considered.

4 pleached limes have been included to hide the bland and dead frontage of the Robocop building. A stone bench completes the picture. The scheme also extends across Dame Street at an angle into Sycamore Street.

All in all a pretty disappointing response for those interested in preserving our traditional granite paving in a meaningful way.

The plans can be viewed here
http://www.dublincity.ie/AniteIMWebSearch/Results.aspx

Fade Street is the next little space in the city up for a “revamp”. This time its a cheap and cheerful temporary surface, prototyping these types of materials for other streets in what is now the Grafton Quarter. The works are the first for the new Public Realm team.

As with the Palace Street proposals above, I reckon simple is all thats required here. Some well laid and generously wide pavements. Keep the kerbs and features. Add some lice lamps area trees and smoothen out the road surface. Or even pedestrianise? Is that possible?

I havent any snaps yet but its looks worrying so far. The older granite kerbing which lines the street is now to be encased more or less with tarmac on one side and cheap gutter bricks on the other. The new kerb is a cheap pour concrete that looks awful at the moment. I bet the surface will be just plain old tarmac….might look okay if its covered but have to see. Shame about the kerbstones though.

Works being executed by Sierra, those champions of the public realm.

Here’s a recent addition to Stephen’s Green. Need I say more?

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2056468894

I saw those!…how curious. I bet they result from OPW (which owns the pavement) refusing to let Dublin Bus (which thinks it can put its stops wherever it wishes and who’s to tell them otherwise) place stops on the Green. The fitting in the pavement holds the new stop signs. Very odd.

Draft Public Realm Strategy is out boys and girls…. Submissions by 25th Jan. Your City: Your Space is the title….yeah right.

Also an Outdoor Advertisement Strategy

And also a workshop on Mon 5th Dec with DCC Roads on a best practice manual/policy etc for Dublin’s historic street surfaces.

Lol – I saw that bus stop last week looking out the window of the Little Museum of Dublin across the road. I thought I was seeing things. Then all the taxis, racing traffic and signage clutter in the forground reminded me I was in Dublin, the continental illusion of a gracious mansion overlooking a great European square was shattered, and a bendy yellow pole made perfect sense.

Can anyone tell me why some patches of historic paving have been left in place (particularly outside pubs – Whelans of Wexford St for example) on otherwise modernised footpaths?

Because cellars are in use below ground? Meaning street has never been excavated. Also the granite is more hardwearing with kegs slamming into it than the humble concrete slab.

On the otherhand…it could also be due to an appreciation of heritage on the part of pub owners. In the same way that they manage to maintain their historic frontages and fixtures (for the most part)

Another repaving horror show on Earlsfort Terrace to the front of the National Concert Hall. Old granite paving relaid in the most awful fashion with cement grouting as wide as your arm. I will post some images shortly.

It seems any criticism of Dublin City Council’s corporate attitude to the maintenance of historic (or any) paving in the city is (as usual) entirely misplaced.

From the City Council’s website in response to recent An Taisce comments:

Media Release Tuesday 13th August 2013: Use of Granite in the Maintenance and Repair of Footpaths

I reference to the article in today’s Irish Times “Dublin’s historic footpaths being destroyed by cheap granite” and would like to mention that this particular item was discussed at a recent Dublin City Council Strategic Policy Meeting.

Dublin City Council Roads and Traffic Department are committed, to the reuse of antique paving, and where possible to the use of Leinster Granite for the maintenance of areas of antique granite. Granite that has been returned to Dublin City Council is reused if in good condition but approximately 10% is lost through lifting and relaying and general wear and tear. When sourcing granite for paving maintenance and repair, Dublin City Council must adhere to the Department of Finance Procurement guidelines, and it is only recently that Leinster granite became available and at competitive prices.

Every effort is made to fuse the existing and new paving thereby avoiding a conspicuous disruption to the continuity of Dublin footpaths. However, because of a shortage of indigenous stone, repairs have been carried out using other materials or stone. The entire practice in relation maintenance and repair of antique granite pavements is being assessed in the context of the Public Realm Strategy. A mapping exercise showing the areas ofantique paving to be maintained has been done by the Heritage Office. When both of these exercises are complete a policy manual will be brought before the City Council for adoption. That policy will then apply going forward and a decision will also be made on how to deal with the existing situation. I hope this brings clarity to the situation regarding the use granite on our footpaths.

ENDS

Approx 10% is lost “through lifting and relaying and general wear and tear” …so how long before we lose it all then?

Oh goody! Another policy manual to stick on the shelf and gather dust with all the other AAPs, LAPs, Public Realm Strategies, City Development Plans, etc, etc.

It’s the Department of Finance’s fault that Dublin’s historic paving is in absolute shambles, nothing to do with DCC at all, no. :thumbup:

DCC…. you are just priceless!

Historic paving disbelief in Lower Gardiner Street !!

On Thursday last week some DCC operatives replaced the granite surrounds to two coal hole covers. Admittedly the granite was very badly broken up. Whats been put back however is quite tragic.

The hole in the centre of each granite slab was obviously the wrong size- so its been “adjusted” using an angle grinder (chop marks clearly visible). The old cast iron cover is then held in place using an inch wide band of silicon. Not an original method as far as I can remember. The silicon appears to be leaching into the granite.

It would have been better not to bother.

I wonder if this stunning detail will appear in the soon to be published DCC historic paving manual ?

Perhaps you should send it to Siobhan Maher of the Public Realm team for use as the front cover :shifty:

publicrealm@dublincity.ie

We should promote a national paving day where we ask people to photograph incidents of this in Dublin

And this happening in the context of a THIRD historic street surfaces study shortly due for release!

So the reports continue on their merry way while the rest of us can go back to sleep………….zzzzzzzzz……..

Saturday.

Stunning stretch of original historic granite paving and curbstones outside St. Saviour’s Church on Dominick Street are in the process of being RIPPED UP and paletted as part of Luas BXD works. This despite the Railway Order showing the pavement actually WIDENED in this area. The Development Plan lists this stretch of pavement as: “To be retained or restored and included in the City Council’s Programme for Restoration”.

I presume this vandalism facilitates the road being temporarily widened to allow a chunk of the street be closed for the track to be installed. So this paving, much of which appears to be completely untouched since the day it was laid 150 years ago, is effectively being demolished because RPA can’t work out the phasing of their works properly?

Am I wrong in thinking this paving is PROTECTED?