Tuborg

Cant make up my mind about the coonagh cross centre, im not really a big fan of shopping centres like these, theres always something very bland and monotonous about them, they all seem to look the same and when you’re inside in one you could almost be in any shopping centre anywhere, they all look the same to me, in fairness to coonagh cross at least they’ve included a public park in the plans, similar to the park planned for the parkway valley centre only smaller!

There has been very little news recently about planning decisions for these 2 shopping centres, the application for the parkway valley was submitted last christmas and not a lot has been heard about it since, the project is located in both limerick city and limerick county councils jurisdictions so obviously a good deal of consultation has to take place, this is a big call for both of them as such a large development in a sensitive area needs to be studied in serious detail, i personally dont think the present road infastructure on that side of town can take the extra pressure, i mean you’re going to have a large shopping centre and office and business park in the one site, thats gonna mean a lot of extra cars, im not sure if the proposed centre is going to have access to the new castletroy link roads?

Id be concerned that a lot of the new retailers looking to set up in limerick are mostly only interested in suburban shopping centres, for me you cant beat the city centre for shopping, it should be THE place for core retailing, the problem is rents and parking costs are too high because the city boundary is too small, limerick county council is cleaning up with rates from the likes of the crescent, raheen industrial estate and the national technological park!, also there is a lack of vacant, suitably sized premises on o connell street especially! If right was right the likes of supermacs and burgerking should be booted out of the street to make way for proper retailers and theres a lot more examples other than these!

Theres still no word on the anchor for the royal george site, a lot of rumours still say its marks & spencer, this would be a big boost especially as a number of retailers feel they have no option but to move to te suburbs as their existing units just arent big enough, hopefully hmv and river island wont close their city stores when they open outlets in the crescent!

Its a real pity about o connell street though, it isnt a patch on the street it was in times past, commercially or architecturally 🙁

Its almost heartbreaking to see those photos from years gone by, O Connell st was much more impressive back then, it really was a grand street with many fine buildings, i’ve got a book full of pictures like this at home and the lower portion of the street has changed almost beyond recognition since the 1950s, a fair amount of this was down to unfortunate tragedies, both roches and todds were destroyed by fire and cannocks was demolished instead of being restored 😡 of course todds was replaced with what is probably the city’s ugliest building, surely brown thomas take more pride in their appearance than this!

O Connell street from the corner of bedford row where the bank of Ireland now stands

This is a pic of william st with the todds building on the right, quite an imposing building, they dont make em like this anymore!

As for the planning app, ya its the same development, the residential element is being built in 3 phases, not sure if its got permission yet but it definately will as the city council themselves drew up the masterplan with the limerick race company, there is to be a commemorative monument to mark the popes visit and one to mark john traceys world championship win there, in fairness it looks like a well balanced development on paper!, this was also to be the site of the new greyhound stadium but there was problems with the ground conditions, a new state of the art stadium is going ahead at coonagh cross and should be open within 2 years, speaking of coonagh cross more details have been released of the shopping complex planned for the area, looks pretty run of the mill and boring to me! http://www.coonaghcross.com

Seems like every new shopping centre in limerick is claiming to be the biggest, so is the planned development at the back of patrick st, hopefully we’ll hear some concrete details fairly soon, it has the potential to be a really positive development for the city centre but only if its done right, what we dont want is a big soul-less shopping centre, what i would much rather see is a retention of the existing streets, there are many interesting and historical buildings in this quarter of the city and it would be a travesty is they were all destroyed, this area should be rejuvenated using existing buildings and where it is neccessary clear the derelict sites and replace them with new structures,it would be a much more vibrant and atmospheric place if the majority of this area was kept intact!

The planning application dave posted is for the proposed parkway valley complex, supposed to be another liffey valley type centre, this is great news for all the traffic, yet more cars on this section, the application includes modifications to the parkway r/bout, supposedly designated turning lanes and 2 tunnelled slip roads, we’ll just have to wait and see if this actually happens, there seems to be some rumours floating around that when(if) this complex is completed the old parkway will be flattened,to provide room for a proper junction, a train stop could also be established there in the future. The limerick southern ring phase 2 rossbrien to cratloe(including shannon tunnel) is supposed to start early next year,it’ll take 3 years to build, a contract went out recently for fencing off of the limerick -nenagh route from the temporary roundabout at finnegans to the nenagh bypass,theres supposed to be some differences over the type of interchange to be used here, at the moment its an elevated r/bout(a la mad cow), there is fortunately a flee-flowing junction planned for rossbrien(N20/N7)

The M7 portlaoise to borris in ossory and M8 portlaoise to cullahill are being built as one project, and its going to be tolled, again there was disagreements about the M7/M8 interchange, its only going to be a limited access one, coming from the south you’ll only be able to turn off for dublin,no limerick, nenagh off slip ,similarily if you’re driving from say nenagh,roscrea or any of them towns there wont be any cork bound slip road. Do we ever learn our lesson, we dont ever seem to plan for the future in building our infastructure, why not future proof it and avoid costly modifications in 10,15 years time, look at all the mistakes: M50(obviously), kinsale road roundabout, N6 dual carriageway into galway, limerick to shannon dc, nenagh bypass( has to be widened 5 only years after it opened), we’ll probably be adding the port tunnel to this list next year!

Its just so infuriating the attitude we have in this country, unambitious, always settling for the easy way out! 😡

Just something on riverpoint(due for completion next month) and also some hints as to further development in the city centre!

Sunday business post

Sky’s the limit for Limerick developer

21 August 2005
The new Riverpoint tower in Limerick, the highest building in the city and the third tallest in the country, does not mark the height of local property developer Michael Daly’s ambition.

The accountant, corporate financier and property developer is also planning a €100 million, 100-bedroom four-star hotel and 95 apartments on the site of the old Savoy cinema in the city centre, and a retirement village at the Castletroy Park Hotel outside the city, not far from the University of Limerick.

The Riverpoint building on the river Shannon, which will eventually house 150 apartments, offices, shops, a restaurant, bar, gym and car park, is costing €75 million to develop. Once it is complete, 1,000 people are expected to live and work in the building.

It is one of the largest developments in Limerick and will change the face of the city, finally giving an attractive shape and character to an area that has been one of the oldest eyesores in the locality.

Daly has set up a financial structure behind the property whereby he retains a majority 51 per cent shareholding and splits the remaining shares among seven others. There are different structures in his other developments, but he holds a majority shareholding in each of them.

Anglo Irish Bank is backing not only the Riverpoint venture but all of Daly’s major property projects. Daly and his investors put up about €15 million of their own money in Riverpoint.

The building is close to completion. During the final phase, the building next door, St Munchin’s House, will be demolished and a nine-storey building above a courtyard will be built with 100 apartments and a creche.

The Riverpoint tower itself has a bar and restaurant on the ground and first floors, and 13 storeys of offices above that. Daly said two floors had been taken by a Limerick firm of solicitors, while an accountancy firm had occupied another two floors. Several construction companies have also taken occupancy.

The 15-storey building, at 200 feet, is smaller only than Cork County Hall and Liberty Hall in Dublin. It was designed by architects Burke Kennedy Doyle and built by Sisk, the construction giant that partners Daly on his property projects.

“We are delighted Riverpoint has been received so well,” said Daly. “It is a terrific landmark building for the city. We’re getting on with business now – once we finish one job, we move on to the next – but it is nice to leave something behind that everyone is comfortable with.”

Daly said his property development business, Fordmount Properties, was behind €375 million worth of projects, making it one of the largest property companies in the midwest. The firm’s shareholders are Daly, Dermot O’Donovan, Thomas Dalton, Adrian Frawley and Michael Sherry.

Daly said the views from Limerick’s tallest building and its 220-space car park were the building’s two major draws for its tenants. “The view of the river is just wonderful,” he said. “You have views everywhere: you can see the Clare hills in the distance. That is what is actually selling it – everyone who has come down to look at it has gone ‘wow’. The view is awesome.”

Daly said that while there are plenty of car parks in the city, there are very few large car parks for businesses and apartment owners. “The underground car parking has been a huge benefit,” he said.

“Parking has not been readily available in the city. There would be other car parks of that size in the city, but not attached to office and residential.”

Daly was a former corporate finance partner at Grant Thornton, but left to set up his own boutique house, First Capital Corporate Finance, and concentrate on his property projects.

Despite his level of activity in the property market, he still pays close attention to his corporate finance business, which primarily sets up property funding schemes.

The firm has raised finance for a shopping centre and nursing home in Co Galway, a retail park in Co Longford and a hotel in Co Leitrim.

Fordmount’s planned hotel on the Savoy cinema site will be operated by another hotel owned by Daly and his fellow investors, the Castletroy Park Hotel off the Dublin Road outside Limerick.

Daly hopes the new hotel will be open by next summer and surrounding shops by the end of the year.

Daly and his investors bought the hotel last year from US billionaire philanthropist Chuck Feeney for about €25 million. Fordmount’s retirement village will be located next to the hotel.

According to Daly, Fordmount is assessing other sites in Limerick city centre that he believes could be ripe for development. He said other property developers have focused on building in the suburbs, but he believed the real value was still in city centre locations.

“There is a lot of retail parks being built around the city, but I would like to see the city centre being restored from a retail and commercial perspective,” he said. “Any town needs a vibrant town centre. I hope we haven’t run the risk of maybe going too much on the outskirts. That is one of the reasons why we are looking at other sites in the city centre.”

Daly has taken an office in Limerick’s highest building, but denied that he was considering taking space on the top floor of the Riverpoint.

“I am going into the eleventh floor [of the offices] – there are two floors above me. I didn’t want to be seen as the king of the castle,” he said, laughing.

“I was tempted, alright, but I quickly dispelled the temptation.”

pdll are you still talking?, it would have been wise to shut up a long time ago and stop making a tool of yourself, its hard enough to take you seriously as it is without some more blinkered and partisan comments, as shane said why dont you go away and set up an “i love galway” thread, Also i never once mentioned issues of urban planning in limerick in my last post, maybe you should start a thread about that, anything would be better than the drivel you’re spouting at the moment, i just hate it when someone who’s quite obviously ignorant and uninformed comes on and tells some blatant lies, you have zero credibility pdll, if you cant stick the heat then get out of the kitchen!

Anyway on more important topics great to see some movement on the park canal and the rail link to the airport, 2 really important projects for the city, a rail link to shannon surely makes sense as the distance involved is quite small and with passenger numbers growing all the time there is sure to be a steady demand for it, its also a nice alternative to road travel, especially with no plans to improve the section from clonmacken to bunratty, its a pretty unsafe and substandard section with median breaks and residential accesses, grade seperation is badly needed on this stretch,id say its pretty far down the priority list though, and yes it would be great to beat dublin to an airport link.

Unfortunately dave i think we will have to wait until the southern ring is completed to see work on o connell st start, again down to government mismanagement, i lad to laugh today when i was looking through some old news, the predicted completion date for the 2nd section was EARLY 2006, a little bit optimistic at this stage i think, although if they started tomorrow you’d never know, although placing a toll on it defeats the whole purpose of the project especially so close to the city , i think we’ll continue to see hgvs in the city centre for a long time yet! 😡 .The o connell street project is really urgent as the street really deserves better, it would give it some space to breathe and revitalise itself!

A for the city debate i suppose really there is only four real cities in Ireland, its actually hard to find another country with such an imbalance in population between cities, dublin is way out on its own, id imagine the poulation of the greater city area in Cork is around 170, 180 000, Limerick is around 100,000 and Galway 80,000 or so, waterford then has only around half the population of limerick, kilkenny then is a city in name but in name only, it really dosent feel like a city when you walk around it, it dosent really have the variety of shops and services you’d expect from a city, there dosent seem to be any big centre of employment and the big giveaway is it dosent have any third level colleges, still i must say i like the layout of its streets and the old world charm it has!..

I think the building on henry street you’re referring to dave is the former an post property, it used to house their sorting office for the limerick area,it was bought by a local developer about a year ago but since then not much has happened, its probably complicated by the fact that it is a listed building and alterations can only be made to the inside, there was speculation that it was to be converted into third generation office space but seen as the riverpoint building has been fully let and the high level of vacant premises in the local office market maybe these plans have been put on hold, construction is also starting soon on 2 sites to the rear of the old county council buildings, this area has been derelict for a number of years and the development is long overdue, the 2 building are to contain apartments and retail outlets, if only the esb would do the right thing and sell their premises the redevelopment of the street would be complete.

Work is progressing well on the savoy site and word is that interest in the retail outlets is really strong, at last some good news for the city centre, especially with the jetland, city east and the crescent extension all nearing completion, an annoucement is also imminent on the rejuvenation of the michael street,ellen street,bank place area, hopefully it will be a properly thought out plan. Also dave i think you were asking about the corner of henry street, this was where the henry cecil bar used to be, it was one of the oldest bars in the city and was due to be renovated for retail use, unfortunately it collapsed when demolition work was underway on the carlton cinema, it was a real shame as the building at least had some character as opposed to the bank of scotland building which to me looks like an egg box!

Finally there hasnt been much news lately on the jurys site at sarsfield bridge, permission was granted for a 5 star hotel and conference centre and apartments were also included in the plan but its been appealed to an bord planeala on the grounds that the height of the development (up to 14 storeys) is not in keeping with the character of the area, seems to be a similar complaint to the ardhu site, in fairness i think this one will get the go ahead!.

Not to put a downer on this or anything, but it struck me when i saw these plans a couple of months ago that the plan for the remodelling of the red cow was a bit over complicated and falls short of what it should be, it seems to be modelled on a three level stack without actually managing to go the whole hog!, there is just too many loops and so many of these can be disorientating for drivers!, while this is not a cloverleaf, i suppose the best way to describe it is a non standard design, definately not text book interchange design, cloverleafs go right back to the very beginning of the motorway era, they were first used on the german autobahnnen and american freeways in the late 20s and 30s, they were seen as the best way to grade separate motorway junction as they were cheap to build, they are pretty much discredited today and most of them are being gradually removed on the continent, the reason being that they are seen to be unsuitable for large amounts of traffic because the tight loops slow traffic down, large trucks have also been known to topple over even travelling at fairly standard speeds, they also take up huge amounts of land. The design that is most used on europes motorways for grade separating two motorways is a 3 level stack, it looks complicated but it works the best,all traffic is segregated and there is no unnecessary loops and winding sliproads, all the sliproads radiate in an orderly fashion and even though there is a problem with space at the red cow, i think it could be adapted to fit in here. While its great to see something being done with the red cow and my god its about time, i just think we could have gone a bit further and future proofed it for years to come, unfortunately we always tend to lack a bit of ambition when it comes to designing roads in this country!, although in fairness the redcow is a masterpiece when you compare it with the N3 interchange, has anyone seen the plans for it?, in a word: SHOCKING!

ill upload a pic of a 3 level stack later

I think its really sad when you look back at all the fantastic buildings that this city has lost over the years,superb buildings such as cannocks, the old roches stores(mcbirneys i think was the name of the department store before roches moved in), the old todds building was another huge loss, i think i have some pictures of it somewhere! Unfortunately the photo i posted of cannocks a couple of weeks back seems to be only one i can find,i read somewhere that cannocks was demolished in the late 60s, i really cant find any reason why it should have been demolished, obviously just an horrendous decision by the planning authorities and one that the city centre is much the worse for now, the old roches building was destroyed by fire in 1948, one of a number of devastating fires to hit the city centre in that era, i think in a way the most tragic story of all is that of todds, a building of such character was destroyed and replaced with arguably the worst building ever to “grace” the city centre!

Shane you mentioned something about brown thomas “getting their act together” have you some inside info on hopefully a revamp of the building or are ya just talking about their new menswear dept!, i actually feel like getting sick whenever i pass bt, nobody should look directly at that building, it wouldnt do you any good!

Im found this in the limerick leader archives, ill also try and upload them pics soon, just as soon as i learn how to upload them directly instead of as attachments!

Disastrous Limerick Fire

BUILDINGS gutted: many workers now unemployed.

ONE of the biggest fire disasters in recent times occurred in Limerick today (Tuesday, August 25, 1959), when the monster drapery house of Messrs William Todd and Co went up in flames.

It was the biggest fire in the history of Limerick.

The outbreak was first detected in the men’s wholesale department on the William Street side of the premises and within a matter of minutes this section was a blazing inferno.

Thousands watched as the Limerick Fire Brigade vainly fought to control the flames, but within half-an-hour this huge section of the building was completely enveloped with flames belching through the windows and threatening the adjoining shops until eventually Messrs Lipton and Messrs Burton were also destroyed.

The staff of Messrs Todds busied themselves with salvaging stock and books from the untouched portion of the building, but eventually had to desist because the task became too dangerous with portions of the upper floors threatening to fall in at any moment.

Men and women ran to and fro, salvaging whatever they could lay hands on, and despite a roaring wall of flames at their backs. Books were thrown on to the streets from the office windows.

Thirty minutes after the outbreak was first noticed, it spread to the upper storey of Messrs Burton’s Tailors and eventually so great was the heat that the fire engine in William Street had to be removed. One of the hoses caught fire, as volunteer workers were trying to haul it away.

When it was seen that the fire had gained such a grip that it was completely out of control, calls were sent to the brigades at Shannon Airport, Ennis, Rathkeale, and the garrison at Sarsfield Barracks was also quickly on the scene.

In all, 11 brigades were employed, including Cork, Kilmallock, Charleville, Fermoy, Ranks and Tipperary.

For over two hours hoses were played on the blazing four-storied building and on the adjoining shops to little effect. There were up to 30 hoses playing on the fire at 1.30pm. In Bedford Row, at 3.30pm, one hose became disconnected when crossed by a car, and onlookers were drenched.

The entire block of O’Connell Street, Thomas Street and William Street was cordoned off, and hundreds of volunteer workers assisted the brigades in manning the hoses, while all traffic was diverted.

At one stage there was a danger that the fire would spread across William Street to the garda barracks, but the gardai tackled the sparks that came in through the windows. The tyres of a bicycle lying outside the barracks went on fire.

About 15 minutes after the outbreak was first noticed, there was a huge explosion caused by the bursting of a fuel tank in the basement.

It was learned that the probable cause of the outbreak was the bursting of a fuel tank in the basement.

Just one hour after the alarm was raised there was a huge crash, and practically the entire facade of the premises crumbled to the ground. Fifteen minutes later the remaining portion caved in.

The property was wiped out in three hours, causing £1 million worth of damage, but some premises in the block were saved, including Nicholas’, Cromer’s, Gaywear, O’Sullivan’s licensed premises, the Grimsby Fish Stores, and the main offices of Messrs Todd and Co Ltd.

While Limerick Fire Brigade were battling with the outbreak, they were summoned to minor outbreaks at Cornmarket Row and Robert Street, and had to split forces.

Windows on shops opposite Todds on O’Connell Street cracked, and shopkeepers kept a bucket chain going to prevent further damage. The brigade also hosed down the premises.

Roches Stores removed all goods from its front windows, and other shopkeepers followed suit.

About 200 employees of Todds are now out of work, and another 20 from Lipton’s, plus others in the adjoining premises destroyed.

Todds fire was a watershed in the history of the city centre. Its stately interior, long and wide mahogany counters, and an all-round balcony with cast-iron ornamental railings, was a showpiece of another era.

Lipton’s, the noted general grocers, was noted for its meats and cheeses, carrying on a very old tradition there.

The end of Todds was the end of an era, heralding major changes in the city centre.

A few weeks ago i mentioned that a large shopping complex was being planned for the city centre, a number of retailers on patrick street (opposite aurthurs quay) had closed their doors in recent weeks and more are to follow in the coming days and weeks!. Well the plans are to be made public very soon, the mayor of limerick speaking on local radio said he would be in a position to make an annoucement in the very near future, and according to the local press a high profile meeting between the city council and a belfast development company was due to take place today (thurs 4th aug). It seems the development is even larger than first thought and encompasses a large part of the city centre including patrick street, rutland st, michael street,ellen st,cornmarket row and bank place, the developers have already bought up large tracts of land and the preplanning work has been finalised, there is rumours that shannon developments offices in the granary are to be bought up, but i find this hard to believe as the granary is a protected structure and millions was spent refurbishing it in the 80s. This plan (providing it gets approval) would be a huge boost for the city centre, not only would a scheme of this magnitude have a huge effect on the commercial rates(currently the highest in the country), it would also fit in nicely to the planned pedestrianisation and upgrade of the city centre, especially o connell street, most importantly it would be a fly in the ointment of all the existing retail parks & shopping complexes in the suburbs and those that are under construction or planned.The complex itself is the biggest ever planned for limerick and will easily be the biggest in munster, i suppose what is refreshing about this one is that it is not planned for some large field in the suburbs, it is right in the centre of the city and will breathe new life back into the heart of the city, an area that has been neglected for far too long, lets hope the plans for o connell st will restore it to its former glory!, if only we could put right the architectural mistakes of the 60s & 70s!.

The area bounded by this development has seen a large amount of steady development since the early 90s with a large number of new pubs, nightclubs and shop units opening up, now it seems the area is about to change beyond recognition!.. 🙂

Limerick Leader 23rd july 2005

Red tape holds up suburbs takeover

BECAUSE of red tape the Minister for the Environment, Dick Roche will not receive a proposal to enlarge the Limerick city boundary until mid Autumn – a year after the report was made public.

The Department of the Environment confirmed this Thursday that he has yet to receive a submission and senior City Hall officials have acknowledged that it will be “September or October” before the proposal – affecting several suburbs – is sent to Dublin.

Both Limerick and Clare County Councils’ have rejected the plan to quadruple the area governed from City Hall, enlarging the city’s boundary into their areas by 6,451 hectares.

Last October, the report commissioned by then Mayor, Cllr Michael Hourigan, requesting the Government to enlarge the city was made public.

However, despite the controversial report being well publicised and debated, the Minister for the Environment, Heritage and Local Government has not yet received it.

City manager, Tom Mackey confirmed that the proposal would have to go before the City Council again following its rejection by the neighbouring authorities.

The City Council are not due to meet again until September.

“It will have to be brought before the council for their direction in September or October. It will then be sent directly to the Minister if the Council approves it,” reported Mr Mackey.

If the bid is successful, areas such as Coonagh, Dooradoyle, Castletroy and Mungret in County Limerick and Parteen, Meelick and Clonlara in Clare would be administered by the City Council. Officials argue an extension is long overdue, the last one being granted in 1950.

The proposal document for the extension runs to over 155 pages including appendices.

Meanwhile two Limerick Government colleagues have differed over the future of Limerick’s local authorities.

Junior Health Minister Tim O’Malley has suggested that Limerick City and County Councils’ should be amalgamated into a “single super-authority to govern and promote both city and county”.

Minister for Defence Willie O’Dea believes this idea “would not work”.

“I don’t think any one body would be able to manage this. I would be in favour of the present situation,” said Minister O’Dea.

Asked would he favour a boundary extension for the city, the Defence Minister also said he had “representations on both sides.”

“There are arguments for and against it and it is a decision for Minister Roche to make. He has not given me any indication on how it will go,” remarked Minister O’Dea.