Tuborg

@justnotbothered wrote:

Don’t think they can begin O’Connell street until the tunnel and link road are built, like it or not, it’s a national route. I agree O’Connell street does need a major renovation though.

Ah but you see its all about forward thinking and planning, Phase 2 of the Limerick Southern Ring was initially due for completion in 2006, yes 2006!:eek: .. However anyone with half a brain could’ve foreseen that this was an optimistic timescale to say the least, as it happened the project only barely made a 2006 start, it’ll now be 2009/10 before its finished. Surely the City Council could’ve had some kind of back up plan if anything got delayed, i.e. an inner orbital route, as it is they’ve done absolutely nothing to reduce traffic levels in the city centre. I know their hands are tied somewhat but a proper city centre traffic management plan couldn’t hurt!

Poxy, I’d be wary about copying Dublin’s plan, while the finishes on O Connell street are of an extremely high standard, I don’t know, I cant help but feel that it’s a bit of a missed opportunity!

The street still isn’t the pedestrian environment everyone was led to believe it would be. It’s still pretty much clogged by traffic and has the appearance more of a national primary route (which it is!) than of the most famous street in the country! It’s basically a dual carriageway with nice shiny pavements on either side. Also a massive failing is the lack of proper street furniture, there basically isn’t a single place to sit down along the whole length of the street, for a project of this scale you’d have Imagined that this would have been a pretty important part of the plan, absolutely unbelievable!:eek: Another thing, the street has a real cluttered look, is there really a need for all those signposts?

What id like to see for our own O Connell Street is more of a minimalist approach, but with the required amount of street furniture and possibly some soft landscaping! Ideally a proper effort to clean up and Improve the buildings along the street would be part of the plan, but I suppose that would be asking for too much!..

@CologneMike wrote:

Tuborg, you had the same sentiments for the other “Royal Hotel” further up George’s Street. See Attached image. The Lynch Group have even shortened the name from the “Royal George Hotel” to simply “George Hotel” as seen in Billy’s image here. http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=52430356&postcount=3 It remains an elephant of a building in a Georgian Street. Queen Victoria would not be amused.:rolleyes:

No point rambling on about it, whats gone is gone but I just find it sad that so little was done to preserve the city’s built heritage. 40 years ago Limerick had a very attractive city centre, nowadays when you look around O Connell street in particular, it dosent make for very pleasant viewing, Brown Thomas, Penneys, Bank of Ireland to name but a few!

Its interesting how remarkably similar the George and Cruises were, almost identical in fact, only difference was, Cruises never seemed to have a balcony while it seemed to be a trademark of the old George hotel. I think Cruises was a family run hotel that was just put up for sale in the late 80s and developers quickly spotted the potential of it. I dont think anyone can deny that Limerick was in serious need of investment in the late 80s/early 90s, a development like Cruises street would’ve been considered huge at the time and the City authorities would’ve been very foolish to turn it down. I just thought they could have kept some of the hotel as a link with the past considering its historical significance, Daniel O Connell even stayed there!

The George is a monster, God only knows how it was ever allowed to distort the O Connell street skyline, of course the AIB werent long in following suit!

This is another picture from the mid to late 60s, around the time it took on its current scale, note the old Munster & Leinster bank to the left!

@CologneMike wrote:

Were these tax incentives the main driving force behind the Hotel boom in the city for the last year or two?

Well that and the fact that there was a market there for them, there was a huge under supply of hotel rooms in the city centre especially, until very recently. Of course many hotels were refurbished and in the case of the George and the Hilton, hotels already existed on the sites in the 1st place.

In the last 4 -5 years these are the new or not so new hotels that have come on stream in Limerick

Clarion Hotel 2002
Radisson SAS (Revamped Limerick Inn) 2003
Clarion Hotel Suites (re developed Ardhu Ryan) 2006
Quality Hotel 2006
George Boutique Hotel (re developed Royal George Hotel) 2006
Patrick Punches Hotel 2006
Hilton Hotel (on site of former Jurys) 2007
Marriott Hotel 2007
Absolute Hotel 2007

The former Glentworth hotel was refurbished in 2003/4, its now known as Pery’s Hotel.

Of course the most famous Limerick hotel of them all, Cruises hotel, was demolished in 1991 to make way for the Cruises street development!

I see they’ve begun attaching the reflective glass panels to the front of the new Marriott hotel on Henry Street, there also seems to be a fair bit of the usual stone tiling peeking through the scaffolding, I really hope that they haven’t revised the plans for the façade as glass was to be the dominant feature, stone cladding is an incredibly tired look at this stage! A Brise Soleil is mentioned in the application, similar to the wooden grill on the façade of the County Council offices in Dooradoyle Id imagine!

Work has also started on the steelwork for the retail element of the complex on the Bedford Row side of the site, the number of retail units have reduced from 14 to 12 as a result of the amalgamation of some units!

Permission for development for alterations to a previously permitted development (Reg Ref. P04/550), identified primarily as: the former Savoy Cinema Complex, Henry Street/Bedford Row/Stella Lane; former Bedford House, Bedford Row; former Nos. 2-7 Bedford Row; and the former premises running from the rear of No. 122 O’Connell Street (parallel with the former rear of Nos. 1-9 Bedford Row), Limerick. The development will consist of the provision of: an additional one metre length on the Bedford Row elevation The amalgamation of part of previously permitted Retail Unit No. 9 into Retail Unit No. 6 and subsequent reduction in the retail floor area of Retail Units Nos. 9, 10 and 11 by 99 sq m at basement ground floor and first floor level; an 87 sq m extension to Retail Unit No. 14 at ground and first floor level; the amalgamation of previously permitted Retail Unit Nos. 6,7 and 8 into one retail unit and a minor increase in retail floor area as a result of revised corner details on the amalgamated unit at both ground (342 sq m) and first floor level (313 sq m); re-positioning of the entrance door in Retail Unit No. 14 and the hotel entrance and permitted brise soleil on Henry street; addition of a hotel entrance on Stella Lane; change of use of Retail Units Nos. 12 & 13 at ground floor level to hotel foyer area (135 sq m) and at first floor level to private function room and lounge area (114 sq m); provision of shopfronts to all retail units; amalgamation of previously permitted Retail Unit No. 9 and 8 (part of) to create a larger Unit No. 9 (155 sq m) The proposed development results in an increase of some 794 sq m gross floor space to the permitted development at Former Savoy Cinema Complex, Henry St/Bedford Row, Limerick.

There was a piece on the Absolute Hotel on Sir Harry’s Mall in the Independent on Wednesday. Its due to open on February 1st next with 99 bedrooms, executive business suites, other “luxury” suites and also a range of spa facilities!

The “George Boutique Hotel” opened last weekend, it includes the George bar & Kitchen restaurant. They have applied for a change of use of part of the ground floor on O Connell street from Retail to café use, The remaining retail space is still up for grabs

Its the pukey orange colour!.. Cant recall it ever being red, when it opened it was definately orange. It actaually gives it an even tackier look!..

An inner orbital route is long long overdue; the amount of traffic in the the city centre and on O’Connell Street in particular is unacceptable. The Childers road was initially planned as a bypass of the city centre but has failed miserably,also the southern ring road from Roxboro to Annacotty has had very little impact on the traffic volumes in the city centre or the childers road itself, obviously not helped by the development of so many retail parks in the area!.. the traffic lights for the childers retail park in particular were a stroke of genius by the city council!

It’s pretty ridiculous also that the city centre revamp programme has had to wait so long! It looks like we’ll have to wait until the completion of the 2nd phase of the ring road until the O’Connell street renewal project can begin. This is simply way too long, 4 years before work can even get underway, that means it’ll be 6 to 7 years before the new look O’Connell Street is unveiled!

At the moment the pedestrian environment in the city centre isn’t very pleasant, the pavement surfaces are old, uneven, mismatched and dirty, pedestrian crossing points are very limited and all in all it’s a very car orientated place.

The quality of the finish on Bedford Row is excellent and it gives you an idea of how well the city centre will look when the other projects are completed.

Is this basically the route ARUP are proposing? Henry St, Honans Quay, Arthur’s Quay, Rutland Street, Bank Place, Charlotte Quay, Broad Street, John Street, Cathedral Place, Sexton Street, Roches Street, Shannon St.. Will the route run along Bank place or continue through Bridge St and Mary St and back over Baal’s bridge?

I wonder if an orbital route was set up soon could the city centre re-modelling programme be fast tracked?

The Limerick Post doing what they do best!

Further delay on Opera Centre

NO start-up date has yet emerged for commencement of construction of the Opera Centre, despite the recent go-ahead from An Bord Pleanala.

The planning authority has imposed a number of conditions, mainly in relation to the preservation of a number of architectural and heritage buildings in the immediate vicinity of the eight-acre site comprising Rutland Street, Patrick Street, Ellen Street, Michael Street and part of George’s Quay.

Speaking to the Limerick Post, Suneil Sharma of the development company, Regeneration said they are currently reviewing An Bord Pleanala’s decision in detail.

“We will comment on this in a day or two,” was all he was prepared to say on Wednesday morning.

Pointing out that there are a number of legal issues to be dealt with before the developers can move forward, leading auctioneer Pat Kearney said:

“This is an ongoing daily situation. The retailers involved have an option to sell out their properties and the developer can say, we want you out by such a date but this hasn’t happened yet.”

Upbeat that the 250 milion city centre development will get underway shortly, Mayor Joe Leddin said that while the conditions attached to An Bord Pleanala’s permission will mean a reduction of retail space footage, he is confident the project will get underway shortly.

Welcoming Bord Pleanala’s ruling in favour of the Opera Centre, Cllr Pat Kennedy said it was good for the city that a number of important historical and heritage buildings will be retained and incorporated into the development.

‘Revised drawings incorporating the necessary conservation works and conservation methods will be submitted to City Council prior to commencement of the development and the conservation work will be carried out under the supervision of a conservation architect,” he said.

Also that Hartstonge Gate complex is highly disappointing, yet another apartment driven development where the choice of furniture matters more than the quality of the building itself!:rolleyes:

So from what I can see the buildings that are proposed for total demolition? Are.. No.s 6,7 Rutland street, 6,7 Patrick Street and 3 Ellen street, 4 & 5 Rutland street were due for demolition in the original application but now their façades are to be retained?..

In terms of total demolition of buildings of architectural heritage, this is relatively limited. Nos. 6 & 7 Rutland St. date from the 20th Century; there will be an impact with the loss of No. 6 Patrick St., although the Applicant submits that little in the way of original features survive either externally or internally; No. 7 Patrick St. is a modern corner building which contributes little to the streetscape; No. 3 Ellen St. is also a 20th Century intervention. Overall, such total demolition as proposed is reasonably justified by the Applicant, in terms of achieving a balance between the protection of the cultural heritage, and the provision of an adequate design and layout of the new development. It is noted that much of the proposed demolition relates to more modern buildings which are not deemed worthy of retention.

Finally some detail on the actual layout of the complex!

In its simplest terms, the proposed development comprises a shopping centre, essentially with retail units, including 2 no. anchor units, based around an internal mall. The centre includes a foodcourt at Second Floor Level, whilst the overall scheme includes 2 no. additional stand-alone café/restaurant premises, one fronting onto Ellen St., and the other fronting onto Bank Place. A basement level provides service access and storage. Landmark entrances are proposed at key nodes

Ground Level
The internal circulation area (which includes escalators and lifts) is bounded by 22 no. retail units, including a large anchor store at its northern end, and a smaller anchor store at its south-eastern end. Public access to the internal mall occurs from primary entrances at the junction of Patrick St. and Ellen St., and at the junction of Ellen St. and Michael St. Bicycle parking is provided in the vicinity of these access points. Secondary entrances occur on Rutland St., Ellen St., and Michael St

The existing licensed premises on Ellen St. is to be refurbished as a stand-alone facility. In addition, a Café/Bar/restaurant is proposed at the northern end of the site, fronting onto Bank Place – there is no access from this facility to the rest of the scheme.

First Floor Level
At this level, the layout of retail units generally mirrors that at ground floor, with the obvious inclusion of retail space over the area of the ground floor access points. Voids are provided within the circulation area, primarily to allow the intrusion of natural light from the roof down to ground floor level. However, these voids are punctuated by amenity seating areas which will enhance this retail environment.

Second Floor Level
At this level, the retail units are accessed from the units below and/or from the car park footbridge (see below), rather than from the central circulation area. This level also contains a large foodcourt area in its south-western corner, including over the main entrance – this will ensure a certain prominence from Patrick/O’Connell St.

A new bridge, constructed in glass and steel, extends from the southern elevation of the proposed building at this level, over the existing licensed premises on Ellen St. and over the existing alley linking Ellen St. with Market Place, before linking to the proposed upper level of the Denmark St. car park – it is proposed to add an additional 2 no. levels to the car park, thereby providing 150 no. additional spaces. The span of this bridge is approx. 45 metres, with no intervening support structures. The function of the car park and bridge, in terms of accessibility to the new Centre, is addressed separately below; in design terms, however, I do not consider that the proposed bridge will have any adverse visual impact upon Ellen St., particularly as it will be clearly an associated functional element of the new building, and in consideration of the existing unspectacular vista along this street.

Bank Place
The Applicant proposes an extremely bold intrusion into the existing streetscape of Bank Place, with a striking angled façade primarily of glass and steel as its centrepiece. However, it must be considered that the building is proposed to replace an existing office building of extremely poor visual quality, which is flanked on its western side by an attractive terrace of Georgian buildings, and on its eastern side by an imposing stone warehouse building.

Michael St., to the south of the stone Granary building, is an extremely poor visual environment, particularly on its western (site) side, where a non-descript low building is set back to facilitate surface car parking. The southern end of the site comprises a mix of buildings and unsightly steel fencing at the corner with Ellen St. bounding the Garden Centre. Its eastern side also accommodates buildings of poor visual quality.

It is proposed to extend the built form up to the road edge, which I consider will give the street a much improved form. Whilst the proposed frontage of the building is generally blank, notwithstanding the random punctuation of opes within the frontage, this is little different to that which currently occurs.

Unfortunately there isnt any detailed description of the materials to be used or the new frontages to michael street/ Ellen st etc.

@CologneMike wrote:

Permission for the restoration and conversion of an existing proteced structure at corner of Henry Street and Cecil Street and change of use from public house and nite club to retail/commercial use on ground and first floor and to incorporate 8 number apartements over. To incorporate an apartment entrance lobby with associated office over and to include for an ESB substation, electrical switch room and provide for a modified elevational treatment on ground and first floor including the re-opening of existing windows, the removal of existing rendering and the re-pointing and cleaning of existing brick and stonework including all associated site works. This building is a protected structure.

So it had in fact been listed as a protected structure!.. Its strange that nothing more came of this incident, i cant find any real material on it! Such a pity especially when the developers had plans for such a thorough restoration, the lower facade had been totally distorted with the plaster work and especially those horrible pvc windows! im sure it would’ve looked great!

I find it hard to believe how a building “which appeared to be in excellent structural condition” could just collapse for no reason, foundation works were ongoing at the time on the site next door, they must’ve had some impact, surely a study was done on the structural condition of the henry cecil before any development started especially given the age of the building and the large scale demolition/construction works that were to take place all around it!

Limerick had an abundance of these warehouses at one time, of course many of them are still standing, having been restored. It seems that the old carlton cinema (where the bank of scotland stands now) was also a similar type structure,(although it was heavily modified!, it fell into direpair and was derelict for a good while, you could even park inside in it up to a couple of years ago!) that would have meant 3 of these buildings in close proximity along that stretch of Henry street!

This area has plenty of potential especially with the proposed redevelopment of the An Post complex across the street, it really is a shame that AIB persist with a surface carpark along Cecil street with its pebble dashed wall and barbed wire, as if their bank building wasnt ugly enough!:mad:

Hopefully this means that all the georgian buildings on Patrick st/Rutland st will be retained, i supppose we’ll just have to wait for the report!..heres hoping anyway!..