THE_Chris
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Ballymore Church, Cobh, Co. Cork.
Prax you’re gonna have a heart attack 😉
All the emphasis in this thread seems to revolve around Cobh Cathedral. Well heres an example of a gloriously bad hack job that was done in Ballymore, Cobh, back in the 1960s (I think). IMO this is far, far worse than what they’re planning on doing in the Cathedral.
This is a magazine scan, I knew I had this, but thought the picture was better, unfortunately this is all I have for now of how it was. Working on getting better photos though.
Bigger version – http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v458/THE_Chris533976/Cathedral%20Pics/ballymoreoldbig.jpg
Note the four statues – two in the background and two in the foreground, the extremely elaborate paint job on the back and side altar walls and the large wooden structure (dont know the official name) standing behind the altar. The two dark objects to the right and left are flower plinths. If you look closely at the top of the picture, you can see five dark objects in a semicircle, noticing those will help with the rest of the pics.
In the 1960s hack job, a reordering took place. I’m not sure of the exact details, having only this pic to go on and local info, but this is what I know happened.
1) Most of the back and sides of the altar were repainted, up to the level of the five dark objects (pics of angels). IIRC the back was repainted a horrible dark red, and the sides white.
2) The alcoves for the statues were filled in and plastered over. Two of the four statues disappeared, one to Cuskinny Court, I dont know about the other. Two statues remain in the foreground, one is the same, the other is one of the two from the alcoves.
3) The wooden structure was removed and probably destroyed.
4) I dont know what happened to the altar, as I cant see in the pic above. But part of either the altar or the wooden structure was torn off and put as the fronting to the readers Ambo, see below on the very right.
5) Recently, the red paint was covered in a (nicer) light blue, which I show here –
The church as it is today (couple of days ago, anyway. And ignore the green, thats my Photoshop filters)
You can see the five angels, imagine what the original paint job would have looked like all the way down to the level of the floor.
I dont know if the alcoves to the rear of the altar were filled with brick and plaster or just covered, but in any case, you can still see their outlines. This pic looks weird as I’ve hacked the colors to make it look more obvious.
Right side –
Left side (with reflection from sanctuary lamp)
So theres the crime. Back in the 60s.
Originally I thought that the altar was raised meaning the paint didn’t line up, so they trashed it. But looking at the old pic, Im not so sure.
This is conjecture, but its what I **think** happened.
Vatican II says there are to be no statues in the sanctuary, so the four (two in alcoves, two at the front) must go.
They remove the statues and cant do anything with the alcoves. Too high for flowers to go in, looks silly empty.
They fill in the alcoves and it looks awful and out of place, so a crazy decision is made to paint over the lovely paintwork and rework the altar area. Local rumors say the old paintwork was too expensive to maintain, also. The wooden structure is removed and probably destroyed, the ambo is created. The sacristy door is changed, requiring some plastering and wall removal around it.
Over time, the two remaining statues sneak back into the sanctuary in the foreground, where they remain to this day.
The funny thing about all this is they only painted over it. Under the paint at the rear of the altar is the original paintwork. Same with the left hand side. I don’t know about the right hand side, I think that might be lost, possibly all replastered but I dont know for sure. You see, when the red paint that I mentioned above was about 20 years old, it was flaking and peeling. Around the sacristy door especially, it was coming off and you could see the original paintwork underneath, surprisingly well preserved. Its high quality stuff, a lot of the cross shapes you see in the old pic above are done in expensive gold leaf paint and are highly detailed.
If you’re in Cobh, go into Ballymore Church on a morning when theres condensation on your windows. Often you can see some of the outlines of the cross shapes through the current blue paint, due to the different properties of the underlying paints. My guess is that whatevers left underneath is well preserved, the five angels at the top are in reasonable nick, they could do with a clean though.
Im going to be meeting with the new administrator fairly soon, and I will make sure to tell him about all this, and to give him very strict instructions never to let a painter put an ounce of paint stripper to these walls. The chances of getting this restored are almost zero due to the Cathedral debacle and all thats going on there, but the old paint is still underneath and even though we cant see it, it shouldn’t be stripped.
Im also gonna see if I can get better pics of the old setup from someone I know that lives nearby. And any more details if I can.
Thoughts, Cobh people?? 🙂
Merry Christmas —
Early May 2003 was when these were taken 🙂
Heres 5 more ->
A newer version of the bell playing thing. Not sure if its the one in use at the moment –
About halfway up, looking out over the edge. You can see the empty plinths talked about a few pages ago –
More of same. You can easily see the plinths –
Another pic of the inside of a clock face –
The biggest of the bells –
Plenty more bell pics to come 🙂
Once I post the Ballymore hack-job pictures (gimme a day or two) your entire ideas on painting churches will be destroyed forever 🙁
About three years ago I went up to the top of the spire of Cobh Cathedral on a beautiful day. Decided to share the good pics with you lot – it’ll let you see parts of the Cathedral you’d never usually see.
I’ll post them over the next few days, cos you’ll miss some if I post them in bulk 😀
Bear in mind they were taken in 2003, but I dont think much has changed since then.
View of main part of Cathedral from choir/organ balcony at the back ->
One of the two chapels from above (bit dark) ->
The main timekeeping device that powers the clock faces. This is located very far down the spire and links to the clock faces by an elaborate series of cogs and wheels.
Same again, you can see the vertical tube thing that transfers the movements to the faces –
Further up, where the tube meets the clock faces –
This was further down – I THINK it was the original organ like device for playing the bells.
26 more pics to come 🙂
Danny Murphy and Denis Reidy were both priests in Cobh a number of years ago. I used to know Danny, he was a great laugh. Will be interesting to see if this Church Advisory Commitee will do anything useful, or if they’re just a pointless bit of red tape.
Im home for Christmas now. Hopefully I can find those Cathedral bell pics and that magazine of Ballymore interior before its ruination 🙂
Edit: Jackpot 😀 Got loads of pics of the clock workings, the insides of the clock faces and pics from up the top of the main spire. Will post over the next few days when I have a chance 😀
@Praxiteles wrote:
As for Cobh Urban District Council ever being expected to fulfill its duties under the planning act, or indeed to enforce the act,I am afraid that we can look forward to white blackbirds.
I saw a white crow a few years ago 😀
Will be interested to see if anything changes with Cobhs new administrator in a months time. The New Guy doesnt look like he’s going to take any shit. Whether thats good or bad I’ll leave open to debate.
It a general thing everywhere. People dont like cleaning churches. They say its either the priests or sacristans job.
In a small country parish I was in recently, there were 100 people on average going to church. The First Holy Communion was coming up so they asked for some volunteers (out of the 100 normal churchgoers and the 50-60 extra for the first communion) to help clean up the church one night.
Four people turned up.
People say “The priests & sacristans are being paid, they should do it”. When in reality its neither the priests nor sacristans JOB to do it. Even though those two usually end up doing it. Sometimes a priest turns up, sometimes not, leaving the entire job to the sacristan and the 4-odd people.
IIRC the sacristans job is officially to do with the altar and the sacristy. Even in a small church, they arent officially required to clean and tidy the main part of the church, even thoug they usually do.
Maybe things in Cobh will jostle round a bit after the usual ‘Inter-Parish-Priestly-shuffle” thats going on there soon!
Last time I looked at the library extension in UCC was last year. Was wondering what they’d do with it and how it would look.
I never could have thought it would look so bad.
The first picture makes it look like military offices.
The second picture makes it look like the door between the old bit and the new bit has a gap that you have to jump.Their plans involve light rail from Ballincollig to Mahon Point (ignoring the Train Station).
My idea for Ballincollig – Train station (with CIT and UCC), and another from Blackpool to the airport is sane 😀
If the off licence isnt a part of it, everyone will still go elsewhere to Lidl. What a stupid decision.
I have photos of the entire inner workings of that clock, the actual timekeeping thing itself is tiny. Will post when I’m at home for Christmas 😀
Will probobly take awhile to fix, as its hard to get at and a lot of these styles of repair need Bord Pleanala approval, or some crazy planning thing.
Some places even need permission from the planning folk to fix terribly leaking roofs.
Where it is is stupid. Think of how much better it would be near Midleton, or even where the sorting office is on Little Island.
RAILWAY LINKS PEOPLE!!!
How they managed to put it away from a pre-existing railway line I’ll never know. Idiots.
Cork County council website has some good stuff 🙂 Old and new though, so you’ll have to sift a bit.
Click on Planning Enquiry System 🙂
Tis pretty good, lists all current planning permission in their system.
Unfortunately they muffed it up completely and missed out on a golden opportunity 🙁
If it hadnt been reported I wouldnt have even known it was on.
@kite wrote:
Today’s Irish Examiner
Roches had agreed a deal with M&S for the British retailer to take over its lease on the 45,000 square foot anchor tenant’s plot for the same rental price. It also agreed to take on the former Roches staff.
However, Mr O’Donovan demanded that M&S pay an increased rent. When agreement could not be reached, the deal fell apart. &
Im kinda glad this happened. They had more or less agreed on a price etc for it all, when he decided to try and fleece them. M&S quite merrily told him where he could shove it. Serves him right.
CIE owns the skew bridge as far as I know, and a train company is in no hurry to fix a problem with a main road 🙁
@A-ha wrote:
Here’s a map of the proposed extensions to the Cork Suburban Rail network. I got it off Wikipedia but I think that an extra two new stations are to be added by 2009 (one at Amgen in Carrigtwohill and another at Kilnap on the Mallow line).
CSR MapAlso, I never saw it mentioned on here, but just in case somebody didn’t hear about it, Aer Lingus announced a new route to Manchester from Cork, with increased frequencies to Birmingham, Faro and Heathrow.
Excel Airways, one of the UK’s largest charter airlines is to begin operations from Cork to Lanzarote and Bulgaria from Cork in May. The airline has said it would be interested in opearating charters to Florida from Cork in 2008 when new aircraft are delivered.Station at Ballynoe in Cobh. Good idea. (A GOOD IDEA IN COBH WTF IS GOING ON HERE)
Serves the big horrible estates well, at least the person who suggested it has his head screwed on the right way.
@corcaighboy wrote:
This is from today’s Examiner and it makes interesting reading for several reasons. Firstly, this E139m investment number is the first I have heard of it. It sounds impressive, but I would love to know what exactly it includes since the only major investment is the reopening of the Glounthaune to Midleton line. Surely the line reopening and ancillary works don’t add up to 139m. I know it includes work on other stations, but as far as I know, the railcars will be cast offs from the Arrow network.
Secondly, what bridge built on stilts are they talking about?
And thirdly, one has to love the part about the bees! Methinks the only bees who sting in Cork are the elected representatives…..Iarnród Éireann plans closure of three level crossings in rail plan
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A lot of the 139mil is going on the lower glanmire road bridge.
That covers your second point too ]http://www.iarnrodeireann.ie/projects/RailwayOrderDocumentsCD/03_GMR_DRAWINGS/01_STRUCTURES_PLANS/B01_Glanmire_Road_Bridge.pdf[/url]
This site lists all the works to be carried out -> http://www.iarnrodeireann.ie/projects/railway_order_documents.asp
