ShaneP
Forum Replies Created
- Posts
Also, looks like the county council have started work on a bus lane in Raheen – proof if ever it was needed that two authorities in limerick is a bad joke – it’s only going to run as far as the county boundary with no plan for the rest of the route into the city centre
Something utilitarian like – New Developments in Limerick might be an idea. Frank McDonald had an article in the Irish Times about Limerick a few years ago entitled Fab City – dunno bout that one myself but sure it’s your choice. Will try and get back to you with something more imaginative. Didn’t know you could change thread titles.
Is there any news on whats going to happen with the ESB site? The eircom building on Thomas Street ( the one with the tall mast that you see as soon as you come out of the station) seems like another place with a lot of potential in the centre of town. There’s a large vacant yard beside it too which seems to be used as parking. If the city council showed some foresight a new street could be opened up through the complex linking Dominic St and Thomas St. The lack of a connection between these streets, I think is a major factor in keeping people away from that side of town. A new street in the area along with the proposed cinema would have a big impact on the whole city centre, creating a new link and smaller blocks between Upper William St . Pery Sq. and the Peoples Park. It could prove a very pleasant route and would help bring people back up to Parnell St and the side strrets off it.
Has anyone managed to get to the top of the new tall building yet? The views must be fantastic.
Good news about the possible return of cinema to the city centre. Think it got a mention here a few months back. It’s good too, to see something happening in that part of town, it’s a bit of a backwater at the moment and if it turns out anything like the IFI in Dublin, I’ll definately make it my business to go there.
However can’t help but think that without a comprehensive vision for the provision of cultural/entertainment facilities in the city that the project will result in another missed opportunity for Limerick. All these new developments seem to come about in a haphazard manner without any thought given to where they fit in, in the greater scheme of things. Every new retail park, shopping centre, hotel or the proposed greyhound stadium are just being located where developers happen to find a big enough site near a main road. There was an article in the leader a few weeks back by a retail park owner who seemed to think that Limerick could become some kind of European shopping capital because of all the new outlets opening???? Will have to leave it there for now. Back later.It ‘s good to see so much work going on with the city’s public spaces – Milk Market, Park Canal, Bedford Row, Baker Place, new marina and perhaps a new street too. It often strikes me that over the last few years while so much new private sector building was going on there was a real lack of anything promising coming from the city council, especially when compared with other cities around the country. Its nearly 15 years since Arthur’s Quay and King John’s castle were (re)developed and in the mean time one only has to look at Dublin and Cork (Smithfield, Meeting House Square, new bridges over the Lffey along with patrick St. and Emmet Place/Crawford gallery in Cork) Limerick has a bit of catching up to do in this department – The lack of any sort of decent quality public space in the city centre being a constant and justifiable criticism by visitors to Limerick. Hopefully all these projects will turn out well and that Arthur’s Quay can be added to the to do list asap. I also think the space between Hunt Museum and Shannon has potential if anyone has any thoughts.
Think this topic has received quite a bit of attention on the shannonside thread in recent months, but this story certainly adds a new twist to the tale. Does this mean the city council acted illegally – and if so what can be done about it? It’s unlikely that the apartments will be removed and the park restored to its original condition. Who are the Park’s trustees and what right did they have to sell the land? I’d imagine it’s a fairly complicated legal issue to sort out, and all that before the building itself is even mentioned.
Is Java’s on Catherine St. not open late? – regardless a bit of choice wouldn’t be a bad thing. A good starting point boardy might be to get an architect involved. Good design pays for itself. If you contact the RIAI (Royal Institute of Architects in Ireland) they can provide information on practices that will suit your project – the no. is in the golden pages. You should check out a few different firms to see which one is best for you. Try and get as informed as you can about what you want your cafe to be like, ex get images of existing good examples etc. Hope that’s of some use to you and best of luck with your project.
It would seem that no decision has been made onThomond Park – the initial proposal can’t go ahead because nearby residents won’t sell their houses and the IRFU said their offer was non-negotiable when the story first broke. Seemingly a new site has been purchased somewhere on the Dublin Rd but it hasn’t been said whether a new stadium will be built there or not. Guess the IRFU will need a bit of time before they make a decision, although it’s difficult to see too many Munster matches been moved to Cork, as apparently 2/3 of Munster tickets are taken up by LImerick fans.
Well done on all the recent images etc Dave123 – where did the one of the Broad St apartments come from? Have they been built yet – the background looks like the Golden Vale plant on the north side, just off North Circular Road – doesn’t look like the most ground breaking design wherever it is! unlike Abbry Court which is a fairly striking looking pile, hope it does well, it would be good to see that part of town become a bit more of a lively spot.
Any news on the new pub near Denmark St? Haven’t heard anything at all bout it – but there was a notice up on William St a couple of months ago, at the junction with Todds Bow (I think) for a large enough sounding new pub, although no sign of anything happening with it as yet. The Brazen head on O’Connell St. is supposed to re-open too, so there might be a few interesting new places to head in the near future.
Doesn’t seem to be much development on the indoor arena – just Limerick leader recycling some slightly older news. Would like to get a hold of any feasability studies on it. I gather the Cork proposal was largely scaled down from 8000 seats to 2500 ( same size as the INEC in Killarney) if it ever goes ahead, which surely must have some impact on the Limerick plan – it’s difficult to say whether such a venue would be more suited to Cork or Limerick, Cork has a slightly larger hinterland population ( something like 325000 v 250000) but Limerick is much better connected both to the rest of the country, being roughly 100km from Cork, Galway, Waterford and Kerry as well as the proximity of Shannon Airport. However the idea of building it in the Docklands area seems a bit misguided – there’s isn’t even a bus route down there, it’s fairly removed from the city centre and what benefit is a river side setting to a big windowless concert hall ? Maybe a tram type service between Raheen, city centre and UL taking in the rail station and new Arena could alleviate potential traffic chaos! I’d prefer to see it built beside the railway station – there’s huge potential in that area (if agreement could be reached with local residents) . It’s only 5 minutes from O’Connell St, and directly connected to railway – which would add to the viability of new connections to the airport and Parkway (for parking) It could be a very exciting space in itself with a large semi public concourse connecting the arena with the station, new shops, cinemas hotel etc. and would have a major impact on what is a relatively stagnant area of the city. Just a thought, i guess. There’s also a large parcel of unused land just off Clare St, which connects with the Ennis line as it crosses into Corbally. Pat McDonagh seems like an enterprising enough person – so hopefully this project will show some vision and avoid being a big cheap box in the burbs stranded in a sea of car parking.
The new hotel on the Childers Road must be starting soon – there was an image of it in the Post a few weeks ago (can’t find it now – anyone else got it? ) It’s a three star Quality Inn and it’s being built on the site of a football pitch beside the old Krups factory – odd location if ever there was one and I think that the Roxboro shopping centre, nearby, is to get a revamp too – badly needed. It’s about time something happened in that area, think it’s going to be a missed opportunity though. Southill – Rathbane could really do something approaching some kind of urban civic space.
You obviuosly got the supplement in the L Post, Tuborg – The new George does look a bit bland and forgettable alright. Will scan in the picture later – there was a good written description of the project in the article too. It’s going to be a 160 bedroom, 3 star hotel with retail on the ground floor and the hotel lobby on the the first floor. It will looka bit bizarre though, I think because of the the small georgian building where Timberland is stuck onto the side of the much larger scale new development and AIB. There was a few other interesting projects mentioned in the supplement too, so will come back to them later.
I suppose one can only speculate about what will happen with the George site. It seems a bit small for a large department store and surely there would need to be a fairly substantial amount of car parking to go along with a Marks and Spencers. I read somewhere before that they usually require a hinterland population of about 300000 in order to make opening a store viable in any region. And although the mid west satisfies that requirement, it’s difficult to know if M&S would see things that way – Are people going to drive 40 or 50 miles form the far reaches of Tipp, Limerick or West Clare just to shop in M&S? As far as i know the greater Limerick area is reckoned to have a population of between 225000 and 260000 depending on how it’s defined. A big shopping centre like the one proposed on Patrick St sounds the most likely option, especially given the involvement of a Belfast developer, if not there it’s hard to see where else there is room in the city centre?
I don’t think the council can rely on the notion that the city centre is dying due to competition from suburban centres anymore. From a personal point of view, town seems to be noticably busier in recent times, most saturday’s now seem comparably as busy as any christmas from a few years ago. There was even a few sightings of the lesser spotted American tourist during the Summer.
If anything is putting the city centre and it’s traders in danger it is dross new developments with a shelf life of less than 15 years ie. things like the Savoy and slum apartment developments. If this hasn’t dawned on planners yet, then the city council should be done away with altogether.
As regards, the new shopping centre, I really don’t see how any one could contemplate raising whole city blocks, especially in that part of town. It would be a planning nightmare for everyone involved given the concentration of businesses, streets and buildings in that compact area. I’d hazard a guess and say that the Cahill May Roberts building might go or else that the centre will be located entirely on the derelict site beside Instore near Ellen St. Who knows, we might end up with something a bit trendy like the Powerscourt centre in Dublin or Galleria Vittorio Emanuelle in Milan!!
Was there ever any further news about whether it was illegal for the council to sell the piece of land for the development at People’s Park in the first place, or has it been established once and for all that it was above board? Has anybody got photo’s of the yolk now? It will probably be a while before i can get to that part of town with a camera
As for the new shopping centre down town, it seems a bit early to be talking about any hidden agendas in city hall to help push the project through. The only people who have mentioned the project so far are politicians with little else to be keeping them in the news during their long summer holidays and property correspondants whose job it is to find out what developments might be coming our way. Such a big development has probably involved a lot of pre-planning meetings, which is what is giving rise to all the speculation about what buildings will be knocked/sold etc. Although given the many nasty precedents set by large developer driven schemes dumped on the city in recent years, there is certainly cause for scepticism, it’s only fair that the project be given a fair hearing once it’s contents are published. I’ll certainly be keeping a close eye on the planning notices in the leader and elsewhere in the next few weeks .
For any one unfamiliar with the planning process – current legislation gives rise to the following process in dealing with a planning application
Notices must be placed on site and in specified newspapers by the applicant 2 weeks prior to the application being lodged with the local authority.
Once the application has been submitted a decision must be made within 5 weeks during which time observations and objections can be made by interested parties, however it may not be possible to do this at the earlier stages of the process as drawings are being checked by the planning registrar to ensure the application has included all the necessary information and that it is correct.
It is also necessary for a project of this scale in such a location to be accompanined by an environmental impact statement and it would seem likely that it will allso include traffic and building conservation studies among other items.
The council may also ask the applicant for extra time to make a decision.
If the council approves the application an appeal can be made to an Bord Pleanala within a specified timeframe provided the objector has has previously tried objecting to the local authority.So keep an eye out for planning notices. I can’t wait to see what it looks like. I gather it’s a Belfast developer who’s responsible for the scheme, but am not aware of any previous projects from them. Don’t know that Belfast’s set the world alight with any interesting shopping centre architecture in recent years though?
Also saw that an appllication is to be lodged for the extension to the business school in U.L. – can’t find any images, any one else come accross any? And Virgin Megastores are recruiting for staff locally – no mention of the shop location, can’t help but think it’ll be in the revamped George on O’Connell St, please God don’t let it be the Crescent S.C.
Regarding the conservation area Tuborg. True, it’s mostly around the Newtown Pery area, but the outline on the Development plan map (that I have anyway) shows a little bit extending along Patrick St./Rutland St. onto Charlotte Quay, and back down Michael St. which seems to cover some of the area being talked about for the new S.C. As ever, guess we’ll have to wait and see what’s to become of it all.
Saturday, September 17th, 2005
Council faces gridlock over proposals for city bus lanesBy MIKE DWANE
COUNCILLORS look set to scrap proposed bus and cycle lanes on the Ballinacurra Road, O’Connell Avenue, Mulgrave Street / Roche’s Street and Bengal Terrace following a stormy meeting at City Hall this Wednesday.
Around 30 residents from the affected neighbourhoods crowded into the public gallery where the contentious issue of green routes was debated by the transport and infrastructure strategic policy committee.
Householders were irate over the recent erection of site notices on Mulgrave Street and beyond the Ballinacurra Creek outlining that Limerick City Council intended to seek funding for bus and cycle lanes there.
This was despite the fact that councillors thought they had shelved these planned routes before the summer recess and agreed that the Council should proceed only with its plans for green routes on Ennis Road and Childers’ Road.
“I’ve said it here time and again that the main Ballinacurra Road, O’Connell Avenue, Mulgrave Street and Roches Street are not suitable for bus and cycle lanes,” Cllr Pat Kennedy said.
He put forward that the committee would reject any notion of bus lanes at the above locations and said he would be urging the full Council to formally rule them out at its next meeting.
“We, the elected members, are the people who set policy here and I hope people in senior management here get that into their heads,” Cllr Kennedy said.
Fine Gael’s Cllr Maria Byrne said that “prior to the summer recess, we had deleted all reference to these routes so I was alarmed to receive a phonecall from a member of the public regarding this sign that had been erected on Mulgrave Street.”
She was further dismayed to learn that a sign regarding disputed city bus and cycle lanes had been put up on the far side of Ballinacurra Creek outside the city boundary.
Cllr Byrne said she would be seconding Cllr Kennedy’s motion for the deletion of routes at Ballinacurra, O’Connell Avenue, Mulgrave and Roche’s Street.
Her party colleague, Cllr Ger Fahy, said he was “appalled” to get calls from constituents on a site notice concerning a green route for Bengal Terrace, of which, he said, there had been previously been no mention.
“Residents assumed that because the sign on Mulgrave Street was nowhere near them, it had nothing to do with Bengal Terrace. There was no public consultation and they are absolutely furious with the approach of Limerick City Council,” said Cllr Fahy, adding that 100 affected homeowners in the area were not prepared to build driveways at their own expense to take their cars off the road.
Committee chairman Cllr Joe Leddin admitted he was similarly “annoyed” when he got the same phonecalls from residents in his ward.
“Putting site notices outside the boundaries of the city, high up on poles or behind hedges, is simply unacceptable,” Cllr Leddin said.
But director of services John Breen stressed that no routes for the areas concerned had been agreed and that they would all have to go through the planning process.
“The decision rests with the elected members and the public through Part 8 of the planning process. We have received public submissions which we will be responding to but it’s quite clear there’s strong opposition,” Mr Breen said.
A bit more on the new centre in town –
Saturday, September 17th, 2005
City on course to house the biggest shop unit in MunsterBy JENNIFER O’CONNOR
A PLANNING application for what has been dubbed “the biggest shopping centre in Munster” is to be made to City Council within a matter of weeks.
The proposed development will take in the Michael Street / Rutland Street area of the city and will include the buy-out of a number of premises in the area.
According to a source, business owners have already agreed to sell their properties subject to planning permission being granted.
“It is targeted as the biggest shopping centre in Munster. It will cover about 300,000 square feet and the planning application is to go through in a matter of weeks,” he said.
Up to 1,000 new jobs will be created should the development receive the go-ahead,” the source said.
Meanwhile, the Limerick Leader has learned that Shannon Development are close to completing a deal worth over €1.5m which will see them dispose of their property in Michael Street.
The company have owned the premises since 1980 and according to a spokesperson, the sale will “contribute to the regeneration of the area”.
“Shannon Development are in the process of disposing of their property at Michael Street, Limerick. The company cannot comment further on the sale at this time. The property was placed on the open market and advertised through an agent.
“The disposal of this property by Shannon Development provides an investment opportunity in the property market which can contribute to the regeneration of this inner city area,” the spokesperson said.
Shannon Development, who also own a range of industrial estates in Limerick, including the Raheen Industrial Estate and the National Technology Park in Castletroy, have said that as far as they were concerned the tenants were just undergoing a change of landlord.
They have dismissed rumours that tenants are to receive settlements in the region of €250,000 each once the sale goes through.
The property was put on the open market earlier this year through Colliers Jackson-Stops International Property Consultants in Dublin and received huge interest from perspective developers because of its city centre location.
The site covers approximately 0.33 acres and was advertised as producing €33,300 per annum, with the potential for more, in income for Shannon Development.
A good no. of stories in the leader, this week concerning developments in Limerick for anyone who doesn’t have access –
Saturday, September 17th, 2005
Council ‘block’ home-makersBy MARTIN BYRNES
YOUNG home-makers are being blocked from building houses across 90 per cent of County Limerick because they “cannot demonstrate need” and much of the rest is out too because of an absence of sewerage facilities, a Dail candidate has claimed.
Towns and villages have had their development frozen because no new houses can be built, he said.
So now Cllr Niall Collins wants to tear out the part of this year’s County Development Plan (CDP) which requires planning applicants to demonstrate a housing need and has put the cat among the pigeons by tabling a motion to that effect.
“Presently the County Development Plan, which is the primary reference document when planners are adjudicating on planning applications, does not contain a written working definition of housing need,” he told the Limerick Leader. “Therefore the policy is being applied by the planners based on their interpretation only.”
The need requirement is contained in the plan for the area under strong urban influence, the so-called pressure area, and also the area with a strong agricultural base. Taken together, these amount to over 90 per cent of the land area of the county, Cllr Collins has calculated.
“I had serious reservations when the CDP was being adopted in the first instance,” he said. “I felt that we were creating an undefined policy–however I choose to wait and see how this policy was being applied and interpreted. Having now seen and experienced how it has worked out, I know the public are completely frustrated and in the absence of a clear definition and criteria for ‘housing need’ I am seeking its complete deletion from the CDP.
“As a public representative I find myself unable to advise any potential planning applicants whether their circumstances will satisfy the planners that they have a housing need.”
“Should the Council produce a clear definition in time then I will be happy to write this into the CDP–however in the absence of this any reference to ‘need’ should be deleted.”
“On top of all of this, we have residential zoned land across County Limerick, and other development lands surrounding our smaller towns and villages which is red-circled for development, awaiting servicing through the sewage scheme infrastructure.
“Without this infrastructure these lands can not be developed but the proposed sewage schemes are still no nearer today that they were years ago when they were first announced. Locations like Athea, Shanagolden, Dromcollogher, Kilmallock, Adare and Patrickswell to name but a few are at a complete standstill in relation to residential development.”
Chief planner, Jimmy Feane, is aware of Cllr Collins’ motion for the next meeting of the County Council.
“The motion is the property of the elected members of the County Council, and I will not comment on it before they discuss it, but I will be making my opinion known to the members,” he said.
Perhaps the County Council are trying to do something about Bungalow Bliss afterall, T.P.?
Well J.P – your second posting seems to indicate that I should explain my hostile reaction to your first post. As you said – it was a simple question and it annoyed me because there are a good number of people who spend quite a bit of time searching out, photo’s, maps, plans etc or composing thoughts and arguements for this thread and i was a bit annoyed to see it being reduced to what appeared to be a property search engine ( whether that was your intention or not) It is good to hear, from your second post, that you find the thread, interesting (regardless of whether you include my contributions in that comment or not) and I kinda suspect that you might have some positive contributions to make yourself, which I and probably others would be very much like to hear.
I might, but i’m not telling you. Better off trying an estate agents, instead an architecture discussion website.
Well, as I said before, i wouldn’t give much credit to most government plans/ publications , however well intentioned or otherwise and the idle chit chat quoted above does nothing to change that view. The whole exercise in listing certain areas and excluding others is shown, in the article, to be nothing more than the product of a few hours tracing over random o.s. maps with a red marker, to fill a few pages of the development plan.
to give an example – Crecora – a rural area 8 miles from Limerick City – there’s a nice notional red line drawn around what constitutes the village. There has been very few if any new houses built within that area in recent years. However if one looks to an area 2/3 km off that map it is possible to see that in one particular 500m stretch of road applications being processed/ granted for 5/6 one off houses in the last year. Seemingly Crecora is located in a planning pressure area, whatever that means, perhaps it is supposed to be more difficult to build in the area?http://www.limerickcoco.ie/planning/docs/cdp2005/cdpPlans2005/DEV23_24.pdf
A map showing the location of some 3000 one off houses in County LImerick between 2001 and 2003 –
http://www.limerickcoco.ie/planning/docs/cdp2005/cdpPlans2005/Map%203_1%20One%20Off%20Grants.pdfAgain, any thoughts?
