SeamusOG
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I grew up fairly close to this location, most of which was built on marshy land basically reclaimed from the sea.
I remember hearing, as a child, that certain works carried out on the original buildings had put extra stress on the wooden piles which supported them. The wooden piles would have been fine under the structures which had earlier been in place, but these extra works eventually necessitated the removal of the original buildings and their replacement with the current structure. Is any of this true?
Yes, and you’ll have seen, jim, that An Bord Pleanala rejected the Mater Hospital proposal, basically on the grounds of visibility overload.
Your idea is, unfortunately, not a terribly good one.
Have to disagree with you there, jim.
In a nice area like College Green, all those pylons, ‘n wires, ‘n stuff.
That’d be, like, omigod, visibility overload.
There was a recent proposal – which got some coverage on the front page of this site – for a multi-level garden within and around the building which was to have been the new headquarters of Anglo-Irish Bank. This proposal included a possible cable car between the multi-level garden and some location on the South quays.
I have a few questions related to this recent proposal.
Firstly, would this new cable car idea be properly integrated with the original Liffey cable car system discussed earlier on this thread? That is, would one be able to change rapidly from one cable car to the other, or would a long walk be necessary.
Secondly, it seems to my untrained eye that this second cable car might well have a negative impact on views of the proposed Giant Man to be placed near City Quay in the river Liffey. Does anyone agree?
Did we miss a couple?
I seem to remember that there were some a few pages back which were never answered.
Though that crop in Morlan’s most recent post reminds me of the church in Arbour Hill. But how can that be reflected in the window of a house?
Well, Gunter’s G has to be somewhere in the Crumlin-ish area. I think I’ve seen it, but I can’t place it, and am too far removed to get on the bike.
Morlan’s B, for some reason, reminds me of something I’ve seen near Stamer Street, off the SCR. Or Synge Street. That vicinity, in any case.
Probably wrong, though.
Thanks to both Gunter and Morlan for the pictures.
I was also very interested to hear the approach of DCC to the Transport 21 project in this TV programme.
Mr Keohane of DCC seemed to be fairly clear that the policy was that the T21 project should be implemented first, and the necessary work in the city centre would then be done.
I’ve seen a number of cities in Europe where the two things have been done side by side. Munich would be one example.
Neither Dublin’s most important T21 projects (like the metro or interconnector) nor the removal of traffic from large parts of the city centre are going to be easy tasks. There is, I hope, no doubt about that.
But is doing these projects in two phases better than doing them in one? I remain to be convinced.
@Peter Fitz wrote:
[Excellent job on Capital D Graham. I think that is the first time I have ever heard the plight and potential of College Green, and indeed the wider city, so ably articulated on a national platform (archiseek aside ;)).
It was indeed. And, though I don’t currently live in Dublin, or even Ireland, it has always been a great pleasure to visit this board and top up on what is going on in architecture in Ireland, Britain and in the wider world.
One of the highlights of my many visits here has been the opportunity to view the posts by Graham, almost without exception full of depth, clarity and warmth.
It was great to finally put a face to a name. For such a young man, he really is a credit to himself.
To my mind it was a great brand, though for me (a former small shareholder) much of the sheen was taken off the brand by the somewhat murky events surrounding the re-privatisation of the company and the subsequent purchase of the Independent Newspapers building.
However, in the light of subsequent events, such as the deal with Boundary Capital (whose principal, a Mr McFadden, now seems to have fled the country) and today’s announcement, I’m quite glad that myself and other small shareholders were forced out.
If Richard Nesbitt happens to lose a lot of money because of this, well I’m sure it couldn’t happen to a nicer fella.
Alonso, I’ve been looking for any proposal for a high capacity east-west/west-east rail line through St. Stephen’s Green which predates Mammy’s decision to cut the LUAS green line short.
But, as the song says, I still haven’t found what I’m looking for.
The circuitous option appears to date from around about that time.
@PVC King wrote:
You assert some form of conspiracy or subconscious conspiracy on the part of the DTO to skew the route southwards
Maybe you’re right, Maybe…
I’ve just often wondered whether the location of their office might not have been a factor in their thinking when they got out the crayons.
And they were fairly unceremoniously moved over to DNS, shortly thereafter. Perhaps this was to avoid any suggestion that they hadn’t been able to take an entirely objective viewpoint.
Well… if it hadn’t been suggested before, it’s been suggested now.:D
I do not wish to get into a handbags at dawn type argument as to clear trends in development patterns. The core office district in Dublin has been for many years located in the areas to the south and east of the intersection of Grafton St and Stephens Green in recent years it has moved west as well. The area north of this cannot be developed due to two key reasons
PVC, you seem to be fixated on development.
But the city centre is not Adamstown, or some other development in the west of the city. You don’t need to apply suburban rules to this part of the city.
It’s already there – it doesn’t need to be developed. It’s already been done.
Imperfect it may be, but I bellieve there is no better location – in terms of numbers, in terms of not destroying St. Stephen’s Green, and in terms of creating a wonderful, pedestrianised, open space in the centre of the city – for a metro/interconnector interchange, than the area around College Green.
@PVC King wrote:
1. Beaux Lane House – c6,000 sq m
2. Golden Lane – Various c10,000 sq m
3. Kevin St/ Bishop St c10,000 sq m
4. Harcourt Street Hospital c6,000 sq m
5. Stephens Green SC c45,000 sq m
6. Bank of Scotland c10,000 sq m
7. Former Dept of Justice c10,000
8. New Dept Finance c4,000 sq m
9. Former Eircom South King St c9,000 sq m
10. KBC Dawson St c3,000 sq m[So, Golden Lane is part of St. Stephen’s Green in your book?
That’s stretching it a bit, is it not?
The fundamental issue you haven’t addressed is the impact on office workers in Adelaide Road, Harcourt St, Leeson Street etc of having to walk from College Green. Whereas the impact on College Green of having to walk from Tara St or Christchurch is about 5 minutes. Would a 5 minute walk from both Dart lines be too much for you?
I have addressed this fundamental issue on another thread. This thread is about the central LUAS line.
Assuming that integrated ticketing is in place, workers wishing to travel between Harcourt Street and the interconnector will probably take the LUAS, whether the interconnector is the longer, more expensive, circuitous route through St. Stephen’s Green, or the originally proposed shorter route (or some other route)
For workers on Adelaide Road and much of Leeson Street, who will be too far away from the proposed interconnector station for it to be considered a station which, by international norms – “serves” them – they will unfortunately need to wait for other transport development, either way.
@PVC King wrote:
Up to about 1990 all of the financial management industry was located within walking distance of the Stock Exchange on Anglesea St; the numerous law practices that supported them were also within the area between Fleet St and Wicklow Street.
When the markets went to electronic trading based in the IFSC most of the buildings became vacant, then the tax code changed to make apartment and hotel building / conversion the most atttractive option and the area’s character changed. Other than the central bank there are no large office employers in that area.
Contrast that to Stephens Green where numerous developments have taken place in the interim and a picture starts to build.
However one does not need to get bogged down in my office district is bigger than yours. What needs to decide this is a designing a system that is predicated on 5-8 minute walking times from the station entrance to serve as many areas as is possible i.e. not building too many stations on top of each other but linking the last kilometer in the busiest section by tram.
PVCK, I need you to clarify a couple of things here.
Firstly, could you tell us about these big changes in St. Stephen’s Green. I’m very interested, as I haven’t seen that many changes in St. Stephen’s Green over the last 30 years or so.
(I think you may be using the term to describe much of Georgian Dublin and places like Adelaide Road and Harcourt Road, even though much of this area would – by the standards of several European cities whose public transport networks we might hope to emulate – be considered quite remote from the proposed St. Stephen’s Green station. Please disabuse me.)
Secondly, I think we should look at overall numbers of commuters, regardless of the shape, size or daily tasks of the individual commuter. To me, commuters includes people working in financial management, the law, architecture, graphic design, advertising, newspapers, the retail trade, the hospitality industry – really almost anything which involves travelling to and from work.
You seem to focus on those working in financial management and the law. Do you feel that this group represents the lion’s share of overall commuter numbers?
Thirdly, while there may not be many large offices in the area, let’s say, 300 metres either side of (say) Dame Street, there are very, very many small offices – not to mention a serious amount of locations which are workplaces for commuters working in the retail trade or the hospitality industry. Have you, perhaps, forgotten about these commuters?
Sorry, PVC, I don’t buy it.
The retail/office uses you’re talking about in or around Grafton Street should, overall, be equally well served by a station at a more central location.
Many of the prime office locations are quite remote from the proposed St. Stephen’s Green station, mostly about 1 kilometre away in places like Adelaide Road, and thus other public transport developments will need to take place to serve them properly.
The location of the interchange is not, therefore, of particular relevance for the future transport requirements of the most important office areas.
We’ve been through all this. You just don’t seem to get it.
If the LUAS link-up were to be built, regardless of the time of day – including before 10 am, when the tourists are still in their beds – I confidently predict that St. Stephen’s Green would not be the busiest stop.
There is a lot of face to be lost, if this prediction is true. On the other hand, there is a lot of face to be gained by reassessing whether the currrently-proposed arrangement of the proposed underground lines is the optimum one.
The largest group of commuters, shoppers, partygoers, whoever, want to go to the centre. To do whatever they have to do there, or to be able to change to go to other places and do what they have to do there.
And, I do have to say, I loved your comment about the need for the focus to be on commuters: do remember that the people who came up with the present interconnector route are the same people who came up with the proposed route for the metrowest.
Tallaght to the Airport was the main focus, but apparently it would also enable people from the commuting suburbs in West Dublin to interchange with the Kildare Line or the Maynooth Line in order to get into the city.
So, those commuters, shoppers, partygoers, etc, in the relevant suburbs, would need to change even to get into the city.
And then the planners (and you) go on about how it’s so important that everybody travelling along the Northern Line and the Kildare Line should be delivered directly to St. Stephen’s Green, without a change
The same planners came up with these ideas.
I have to say, not terribly impressive.
There are, however, difficulties with that.
If the LUAS lines are connected, they will inevitably show that the busiest stops will be those in more central areas of the city (such as Westmoreland Street, College Green and/or O’Connell Street – wherever the stops happen to be) than at the current Green Line terminus at St. Stephen’s Green.
In other words, more people on this North-South line will be expressing a preference for travel to the city’s more central areas than to St. Stephen’s Green. (They are already doing this, through their use of the city’s bus routes, but a LUAS link-up would probably highlight this more clearly).
One question which would then arise is why the proposed East-West interconnector is to take a longer, more expensive, circuitous route via St. Stephen’s Green, when it is clear that direct travel to the centre of the city is preferred?
Then, a second question arises, namely why the city is proposing to build the metro/interconnector interchange at St. Stephen’s Green – without, it should be noted, any public consultation about this move – and subjecting itself to the frankly absurd situation of building two metro stations at one location (O’Connell Bridge), when it will by then be clear that the best route for the interconnector – in terms of passenger numbers, at the very least – will be via more central areas of the city?
These are questions which are not going to be easy to answer.
From the point of view of those who allegedly “plan” and those who make decisions, it would be better if the LUAS link-up were not built.
Having no link-up would make it much easier for these questions not to be asked.
And, therefore, not to be answered.
@d_d_dallas wrote:
Citywest is (for most part) being funded privately, even before the current state of finances that was the appetising route for Govt.
You, sir, have put it in a nutshell.
At a time when the Government was wallowing in money, with opportunities to do lots of things in public transport which would never have been achievable in previous decades, this was the most appetising route.
Yes indeed. It sums it all up, in a nutshell.
Excellent pictures, Alonso.
(I was down having a look at it this morning as well and I can vouch that those photos are as fresh as can be:) – it’s really come on a lot since I last saw it in the flesh).
It’s interesting to see how the access points at the Lansdowne Road end are really coming together. But I’m not sure what all that work is on the Lansdowne Village side of the river is about. Are there some plans to have an extra bridge at that point? I can’t recall.
(As an aside, I hope all that extra material in the river doesn’t cause flood problems if there is a combination of heavy rain and a high tide any time soon).
This maaaaay have appeared on other threads which I haven’t seen, but there’s a piece in today’s Irish Times which should be of interest to the readers of this one.
I never had the opportunity (or upbringing?:p) to use it as a church, I liked it as a theatre/concert venue, and I hope it will be a great success in its new role.
http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/commercialproperty/2009/0325/1224243361396.html
What are we doing, switching on the lights so early? 🙁
@The Irish Times wrote:
Christmas lights switched on in Dublin
AOIFE CARRChristmas came early to a wet and miserable Dublin tonight when the Lord Mayor Eibhlin Byrne switched on 100,000 lights on a 15 meter high Christmas tree on O’Connell Street.
The tree is the centre piece of the city’s street lighting for Christmas and is the tallest ever erected in Ireland. The 100,000 LED lights surround 99 glass spheres of varying sizes
The energy efficient tree was designed by Blanchere, a French firm, who also created the lighting for the Eiffel Tower.
There will also be new lights in Henry St/Mary St, South Anne Street, St Andrew St., Trinity Street, North Earl Street, Talbot St and South Great Georges St. Their design was chosen by the businesses in each street to suit the character of their respective areas.
Commenting on the lights, Ms Byrne invited people to come into the city and experience them first-hand.
“Whether you want to enjoy a simple walk through the city, a coffee or serious shopping I believe that Dublin has something for all of us.
Most of all take the time to savour the magic of the city and keep old traditions like “coming to town to see the lights” alive for a new generation.”
© 2008 irishtimes.com
http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/breaking/2008/1109/breaking35.htm
A tradition emerged in Ballsbridge over the last 30 years or so, whereby it was customary for visitors to Funderland to smash all the local bus shelters on the first day that the funfair opened.
As far as I’m aware, most of the bus shelters in the area are now made of some sort of plastic, so observance of this time-honoured ritual is now more problematic.
With a glass tree now in place in the centre of town, does anyone know what safeguards are in place to ensure that this pagan practice does not move to a pre-christmas date on our main street?
@Peter Fitz wrote:
thats good enough for me
and me.
It is, however, a great surprise, which is why I queried this in the first place. If there had been any possibility of checking this out personally, I would not have questioned it on the board. My apologies, gunter, if you were put out by the doubts I expressed.
Thank you for taking the time to produce the evidence.
