sclarke
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November 15, 2002 at 6:08 pm in reply to: We need tall buildings in Dublin and we need them now! #722646sclarkeParticipant
Hello 3KIC –
1) Temple Bar: Refering to the built environment of the Temple Bar rather than its unfortunate conalisation by superpubs. The area is lively, full of interesting architecture, largely sensitive to the its history; well managed; civic minded and scaled (free films – markets – programmed events etc). If the HARP area, the docks, Thomas Street and the Liberties were to develop to this quality then much of the pressure on Temple Bar would be reduced. What do you propose as a model for developing the docks – where these tall building would be built? The developer lead, medium-high rise, American style docks developments in London? What were seeing in Diblin does not seem to have learned from London’s mistakes. Mono-functional, isolationist boxes that have no relationship with the street are the death of the vibrant, fine-grained, mixed-use, high quality urban areas we should be creating.
4) Quality: My argument here is that the quality design of tall buildings is much harder to achieve. Given the disproportionate negative effect that poor tall building have on a city we should proceed very carefully. Look at the cities of Englad or Europe and consider the generally appaling quality of the majority of tall buildings. Of course if somebody comes up with something exceptional and in the right location then go fo it but only then.
6) Polarisation: Only wealthy people at this time can be persuaded to live in tall buildings. Flat design in Dublin (esp in poorer neighbourhoods) generally turns its back on the city and has no relationship the street. We end up with wealthly ghettos that barricade themselves from the communities of which they should be a part. This is a cautionary note rather then a damning agrument.
8) Compact Dublin: Its my firm belief that we would be in a far better shape in 15 years time if we developed accoring to the compact, mixed-use, sustainable urban models. This is a call to action! Tall building are but 10% of this solution. Of course its better that the docks are being developed rathar than remain vacant and derelict but most of what has gone up makes me cringe. We’re turning the docks into a out of town business park.
9) Industry: Well look around you at the general quality of new (last 10 years) developments in Dublin. They don’t enspire confidence. We’re slowly getting better but that is due to acknowledgement of the urban principals above where buildings are considered in the context of neighbourshoods rather than stand alone monuments to the ignorance of the development and building trades. Again – a cautionary note.
Shane Clarke
November 15, 2002 at 11:48 am in reply to: We need tall buildings in Dublin and we need them now! #722644sclarkeParticipantFJP – Thanks for your detailed reply and congratulations on your web-site (link on profile). Going back to the original points:
3) Quality Sky-Line: As I said very difficult to achieve. Where are the models of cities with an historic core which have successfully accommodated buildings of 30 floors or so? Isolated building of this height can be remarkably successful in the right locations (beside the sea, docks, lakes, parks) but in clusters they are much more problematic. Just finished a book on Berthold Lubetkin, the Russian modernist émigré architect, who designed some of the best medium height buildings in London – his work might serve as a model.
4) Quality Buildings: I think that a city considering the merits of tall buildings must be aware that the design of these building is often substandard under a range of headings. Given their height and prominence their faults are exacerbated. This is a cautionary note really but an extremely good case would have to be made in each case for such buildings.
5) Civic Cities: Well I’m an atheist too but I’d rather that the ‘Custom House’ or ‘Trinity College’ are symbols and identifiers of my city rather than say Foster’s ‘Erotic Gherkin’ in London (consciously choosing a building of the highest design quality).
6) Polarisation: Keeping people as far a part from each other is the exact opposite of what I suggesting. Lets be realistic: tall building will only appeal as housing to the wealthy or upperwardly mobile. Given that a majority of the locations in which tall building might be built in Dublin are in and around the docks I’m concerned that this policy would exacerbate polarisation and entrench difference. Again these are communities that need economic and social rebooting and anti-community (due to poor design etc) tall buildings pull in the other direction.
8) Compact Dublin. Again I would press for a model taking inspiration from the principals used to reinvigorate the Temple Bar rather than clutch at the recent fashionable reappearance of tall buildings. And to echo EW the ground-scrapers of the docklands are probably even worse that a rash of poor quality tall buildings. Hope most of it is either knocked down or radically adapted. The docklands are the cities greatest urban asset and we seem to be wasting an amazing opportunity to transform this city for the better.
9) Skyscraper Design: Again I don’t think we’re up to the job and that’s partly due to the fact that the tall building (a stack of identical floors) is inherently anti-urban under many important headings. Having something of an argument with myself over this one and I except the contradictions in the position.
10) The Bartlett is the architectural school of University College, London where I am studying for a masters (MSc) in urban design. This topic has great interest to me as my final report and design piece looks at the city of towers in a hyper-dense context (2500 pph – people per hectare).
Shane Clarke
November 10, 2002 at 3:19 pm in reply to: We need tall buildings in Dublin and we need them now! #722639sclarkeParticipantI take issues with a number of points raised:
1) We have not run out of space, we just use our space very badly. There is sufficent scope for mixed-use high desisty development within the canels. Imaging if we built the docks area to the density and quality of Temple Bar. Tall buildings are just a small part of the solution to densifying the city.
2) The quality of the Dublin skyline is poor due to the amount of rubbish that has been built since the 60s – this includes a number of well known medium height buildings – not due to a dearth of tall buildings.
3) A quality skyline with tall building is extremely difficult to acheive – witness the London skyline; in our developer led environment even more so.
4) Tall buildings are usually conceived as that – taller versions of the 5 story stump. A stack of plates in the sky. Most tall buildings do not embrace urban design either in relation to where they met the ground or in terms of the buildings themselves. For the most part tall building are of very unimaginative exterior and interior design and poorly related to the local area
5) Are these tall buildings to house offices or foreign corporations? I want the land-marks of my home city to be civc rather than commercial in nature.
6) In the curent climate high-rise housing can only be made to appeal to those with money. The city centre locations in which such building might be palced are very close to working class housing areas – such buildings lean towards polorisation and ghetoistaion.
7) Where are these buildings to be built? A tall buildings policy would be needed.
8) The tall buildings arguement often steals the wind of the wider and more important urban design arguement – again witness London. We have a hugh amount to do to build the sustainable compact urban Dublin we all wish to see – lets thinks about tall buildings in 15 years time.
9) Skyscraper design – see Ken Yeung ‘Reinventing the Skyscraper’ poorly written but full of ideas – is changing for the better. Lets not build to standards 15 years antiquated. The Irish building and (dare I say it) architectural industies are just not up the job at the moment. Certainly the public sector does not have to exp to commission tall building of the desired quality. Happy for the forum to correct me on this.
10) Finally – I am doing a MSc in Urban Design at the Bartlett around the ideas of hyper-density and the city of towers so I would be happy engage in dialogue with anyone who is interested in the area.regards, Shane Clarke
sclarkeParticipantForum – I posted an entry here some years ago and have subsequently written my thesis – ‘The Irish Pub in the Global Village’. Received a 2.1 for it but in all honesty its no more than a first draft. Speed typing over four days. An interesting subject though.
If you are interested you can find it @
http://www.members.tripod.com/Shane_Clarke/Shane.htmlI am now doing an MSc in Urban Design at the Bartlett School, University College London. I have posted an entry re my thesis prosposal under the forum heading ‘The Croppy Acre’. Again I would be very interested in comment. Much more confident with urbanism than cultural studies.
Thesis will be concerned with hyperdensity and the city of towers. My proposal is a ‘sphere-city’; sustainable, spectacular, citizen orientated. I am very keen to develop ideas and discussion via Archeire which I think i s a very inspirational web-site.
regards, Shane Clarke (sclarke)
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