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“Whingeing Langerland aka Cork”
â€œWhingeing langers, the lot of them!â€. Regards, Peter
God, this makes a real worthy contribuition to the topic of Cork transport!
By any chance are you a member of the Dublin Airport Authority?
Thanks for the info and images Lexington. I agree that this centre will probably serve the area quiet well, and its town centre setting could make it an attractive area to shop in. I really do hope OFC efforts at creating a new town centre work out, it would show that there is a definate alternative to the enclosed suburban mall, surrounded by blocks and blocks of apartments. The mixture of the shopping centre and the retail/commercial streets provides the balance between public and private spaces. OFC have done a good job of creating a pleasant and aspirational image of what the town can be, besides the tacky Signage.
Besides Dunnes Stores and Easons, I am aware that O’briens is set to open and I know Carrig Donn is too. I suppose when the full list is released we will know for certain.
I’ve been out of the country for the last two months but I keep up to date with forum almost religously. What I am most excited about in the Cork Area is the Ballincollig Town Centre development. The shopping centre is due to come on stream in October, yet there has been very little information forthcoming about it. This would lead me to believe that maybe there is some trouble in filling all the 34 units. This is just my assumption but what does anyone else think? Can Ballincollig become a higher order retail centre?
Planning is an essential part of the development of Cork City. It is not and should not be alien to the architecture and development of the city! These three factors affect the city and make it what it is. i don’t see the point in being smart about the content of the tread in relation to the title. Why do people have such a problem with looking at The City with such a wholistic perspective. This forum and the LADSOC thread offer a true opportunity to exchange information and ideas which I believe leads to a wholistic discussion of Architecture, development and Planning in Cork City.
Wats the panic about CHQ, its not like dey are goina develop it ‘willie nillie’ with a bita glass here, bit stainless steel there. I’m sure any project will be completely sympathetic to the area. The only adjustments that are being mooted, are to facilitate viable uses in the warehousing building. It think it was Lex who outlined one problem on a previous occaision, which concerns the size of the doors, or maybe I heard that somewhere else.
Anyway when it does happen it would really give the area, to the east of the city a focus. It would also facilitate festival retailing in the city, which would contribute greatly to our tourism potential. Its a formula which has been followed all over the world, even the simpsons have the Redeveloped Squid Port! Actually it would propbably become some over-priced tourist trap, like the square in Prague, jesus dey saw me coming in that place!
looking at the 3D rendering above gives the impression that we could see something special emerge from this site… fingers crossed. Does the glass facade extend over the original building on the south western side of the development, have to say I’m really impressed. But I’m really looking forward to seeing what is planned for the clontarf street site. It could be so good on such an interesting site!
I hope the developers appeal this decision and fire it back in the faces of the city council planning authority. How can they be respected as a credible authority with such incredible flip flopping! I get the impression that they do not know their ass from their elbow and have cut off their nose to spite their face! The reality is, this site is one of the best locations for such a high denisty residential development in the city, These are some or the reasons why:
1. Its proximety to the train and bus station. It is located as close to any sort of intergrated transport system, that exists in the south of the country. If there is a problem about traffic management in this place well, how can it be said to be less of a problem in other locations in the city, which do not enjoy such a variety of transport options. In theory a high density residential city developement will be far less car dependent than a low density, sprawling one! Why don’t we just go out and condemn the whole of Douglas because it was developed without adequete consideration of the traffic volumes it would generate.
2. The Docklands Development Strategy sets out a vision for the development of this area.
[font=Times New Roman:3v49z2pb]Approximately 6,000 new homes, including higher density apartments, student accommodation and family units concentrated on Horgan's Quay, in the central south docks area and along Monahan's road[/font:3v49z2pb] (source: Overview, signed by J. Galvin,http://www.corkcity.ie/docklands/) Water St. is practically Horgans quay like. From my interpretation, this decision contravines the strategy devised by the council itself. Joe Galvin appeared concerned that O’Flynns Eglington St. dev. was bringing residential development to an area designated for commercial, but they appear to have overcome this in some respect. I don’t see any reason to reject this re-submitted dev. for 305 units!
3. This sends out a very bad signal to other prospective developers in the docklands area. Would you consider taking a chance on an investiment in an area which is controlled by an authority that seems intent on giving you the run-around and constantly changing their minds!
Overall this has pushed my regard for the Irish Planning system over the edge! First Cullen and Roche’s Free-for all for ‘Bungalow Bliss’ in a decentred sprawling morphology! Now this, a downright kick in the teeth to high density residential living! I think my faith is irredeemable, i’m going to become a recluse and find any patch of land left as soon as I can afford any sort in the country ( prob in about 20 years time!) I will retreat from society and build my own eco-friendly community retreat, which will be built half underground, with help from those Doozers from Fraggle rock, with a grass roof and hope no1 evey finds me!
Its good to hear mention of some familar names. I was questioning the viability of the centre if it did not attract any reputable tenants. What the town needs are strong anchors to ensure the success of this development. This is the development which excites me most in the area at the moment. I live in the town so i am probably biased, but its an interesting oportunity to create an urban environment in a suburban setting. I can’t wait to actually see if it is a success and if the new streets and town centre, in conjunction with the shopping centre will turn the town into a vibrant centre for commerce and leisure.
have to agree wit u on both of your points Radioactiveman. I can’t find anything to complain about the building, but it is the lights on the walkway along the lower grounds which I am most impressed at. They flood the pathway with a white flouresent light, and they open up the path and make u want to go down and follow it. ALthough it has problems with security and muggings in this locations the installation of security cameras in this location should help to alleviate this. ( although I don’t think CCTV is a replacement for natural surveillance i.e. real people etc, there is no other choice for the area which doesn’t have any natural surveilance features) It is the view of this pathway from the western rd. that I feel gives the best impression of the project. Some people may not like the image which these lights create but they look to me like an runway for a spacecraft. Its reminds me of the stylistic features of such classic films as 2001 and clockwork orange. I don’t know maybe I’m mad but its definately the illumination of the walkway that I find the best part of the project
I have to say I’m a big fan of the Victoria Cross apartment buildings. I think the only thing that detracts from the development is the colour.
I would have to agree that the apartments west of the gate are truly awful! How long has the ground floor remained vacant?
I think the worst building in the city has to be on MacCurtain St. I don’t know the name of it, but its the hideous structure on the oppostie side of the street to the metropole. It is a mixture of glass and concrete with yellow claddin. It looks like a Soviet power plant!
its an absolute disgrace to hear that such an integral part of the airport development may be shelved, and I don’t even want to get started on the Horgans Quay site because its a disgrace! I hate CIE, they already have such a hold over my life at the moment because I have no choice but to rely on their chronic services every day to get me around. Thats not bad enough without hearing that they have put the redevelopment of this site back to at least 2007. I want them to move now not later. Get up off their pampered public sector asses and open this site for development. It has the potential to create a high density urban quarter in the city that is not totally car dependant! a CPO would be music to my ears and it would be a great coo for the council and overall the peoples republic! Let the revolution begin
I remember a newspaper article some time back concerning Habitat’s expansion in Ireland and the Church site which is connected to the Cornmarket street development was mooted as the location they would choose in Cork. I’m just putting two and two together in saying this.
Also I think it would be better for the street if it was let to a number of “anchor tenants” instead of one large department store.
Happy Christmas and a peaceful new year to all contributors to this thread. Lets hope 2005 is another great year, in terms of developments in Cork!
If rumours are true and Brown Thomas have become the new owners of Scotts, it would be kinda strange. I am of the opinion that the building couldn’t be used to extend into. The building where the furniture department is housed is separated from Scotts from what I think is a large ESB substation.
Don’t forget Roches Stores, that is the most significant department store in Cork City centre. John Lewis would be a brillant scoop for the development. Personally I was of the opinion that a letting to multiple tenants would be a better direction for the street, given the lack of large units for the major multiple such as H+M and Zara, but the advent of such a major name in retail would be a fantastic anchor for the area.
I was on Patricks st about 5 to 6 yesterday and it was crazy! a big wave of water came up Wintrop St, about a foot high. Around this section, the new square blocks on the street, which people normally sit on, acted as platforms to keep your feet out of the water. It was like being on a beach when your realise you’ve stayed too long and the tide is coming in around you.
Have to agree with you about The Boole Library. Before the GLuckman Gallery was built, the library was my favourite building. Although it is dated on the inside it will undergo substantial refurbishment in the near future. It has some of the best views in Cork. Especially on Q+3, in the south west corner, there is a fantastic vista of the city.
The World Economic forum has mentioned the central economic policies of Ireland as one of the factors which has kept Ireland from moving up the list of most competitive countries this year.
Is this proof enough of the narrow vision which persists in the eyes of policymakers in this country? Do they live in a reality which doesn’t stretch beyond the Pale? Maybe when the whole East coast has become one large Technoburb of Dublin, in which people spend half their lives in their cars, they might de-centralise a few civil servants and sure the problem will instantly vanish.
We need to implement proper spatial planning in this country and enable other centres of population to grow, at a sustainable level, as a serious counterpoint to Dublin.
In Cork we have the oppurtunity to do this. The docklands, in my opinion, is not just vital for the City but also the whole country. It could provide a viable alternative to Dublin, which I think would be better for traffic on the M50 than any spagetti junction on the Red Cow Roundabout.
I do not think that the Mahon point scheme, which Diaspora refers to as “O’Callaghans edge city super mall” will have as strong an effect as he suggests. Although it is a large de-centred development, it will be strongly linked into the core, through a network of green bus routes and park and ride sites. It is my opinion that the local authorities in Cork have taken a wholistic approach to the retail strategy for the region. After the formation of three local authorites in Dublin, ( not sure of their respective titles Fingal, Dun Laoghaire Rathdown and South Dublin) each one acted in their own interest to allow retail schemes to go ahead in their area, perhaps the prospect of loosing out on the rates a liffey valley or Dundrum would bring to their budget, to another authority was too horrible to contemplate. So that is why I propose that Cork has developed a more balanced retail strategy for the Cork Metropolitan region through the cooperation of our 2 local authorities, which places Cork city centre firmly on the top of our retail hierachy.
THe city council website is prob the best source for information regarding what is proposed for the centre park road area. If you go to the website you can look at the docklands development plan in adobe format. It provides an interesting view of the plans for this area in the future.