S.O.S.
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@Rusty Cogs wrote:
While not loosing sleep as such I have to say I’m in a dilly of a pickle over the windows in my c.1900 2 up 2 down. The three 2/2 sash windows to the front have long since been replaced by PVC dross which has since warped and requires replacement. For sport I went into a uPVC joint in Fairview who gave me a rough quote of €5k spend. BTW, the road is now a mix of uPVC and new 1/1 wooden sash. Not an original 2/2 remains.
Rusty Cogs, I know what it costs to produce uPVC windows they cost almost nothing to produce I know a guy in NI who will give me windows for €100 each and that is with him making a prodit, I really can’t understand how uPVC people can charge as much as they do.
I know what goes into making up and down sliding sash windows, all the components are expensive but it really has to be pointed out again and again uPVC is not long lasting (20-30 years ) hardwood sash windows are built for 2 or 3 lifetimes (100-200 years).
@GrahamH wrote:
Sorry S.O.S., forgot about this. Here is the website of the company featured on Grand Designs.
http://www.slimliteglass.co.uk/home.html
(try to muddle through the desperately written text)
Looking at their product, it’s clear Kevin McCloud was incorrect in describing the glass as being single-glazed – it is in fact double-glazed. Nonetheless, it is still remarkably thin, at only 12mm for the slimmest of units. The perimeter seal is also only 5mm wide, meaning it is invisible when used with a standard 6-7mm rebate in a glazing bar. The type of spacing used also eliminates cold bridging at the edges, common with typical double-glazing. They claim their units can be used for most single-glazed applications.
Problem with those units is they are too heavy for delicate sashes
@PVC King wrote:
to inspiredesigns@btconnect.com
I would be grateful if you could confirm if you were practicing in Dublin at any point over the past ten years. I appreciate that this may seem like a strange request but I would offer that clearing up any confusion with a David Grant once based in Dublin would be entirely beneficial to your practice.
I look forward to hearing from you
If it is the David Grant we have been hearing about, I doubt he would say yes
@parka wrote:
Taken from AJ. Is he the same man???
The ARB has successfully prosecuted a man who falsely advertised his company as an architect’s practice.
David Grant, head of Inspire Designs in east London, was found guilty of breaching Section 20 of the Architects Act, and was ordered to pay £1,500 in fines and costs by Stratford magistrates.
Grant did not attend the 6 September hearing, nor did he submit any mitigation in his defence.
A spokesman from the ARB’s regulation department said after the hearing: ‘Mr Grant had falsely advertised his firm under an ‘Architects’ listing in the Estates Gazette.
‘This was a blatant attempt to mislead members of the public into believing that his firm was a reputable firm of architects. Not only does this mislead consumers, it also undermines the profession’s integrity in the eyes of the public.’
The spokesman added: ‘The board remains committed to prosecuting individuals who act in such a manner.’
by Richard Vaughan
If it is the same guy then he is still in business
Is this the guy?
Not sure if anybody is interested but I’ve heard from 2 different sources that Bolgers have gone out of business.
@GrahamH wrote:
The use of specially treated high performance single-glazing which acts the same as double-glazing (and as featured on Grand Designs last week) doesn’t seem to have caught on here. It’s been available for years!
Can you get me the name of this glass
@GrahamH wrote:
A grand array of handsome sashes there brainscan. Good to see retention is on the cards!.
If he isn’t keeping them he’ll be in trouble with me:D
@GrahamH wrote:
On one last point, and based upon the above case, is it possible in most cases to double-glaze a typical single-pane sash window, or is it very much joint solidity and member size dependant? Say in a typical 1900 house where the original glass has long vanished? .
I’ve put double glazing into some old sashes (only 1 customer ever insisted on it) but they must be 1/1 and the joints must be strenghtened other wise they could and very probably will fail after a time.
I always strongle advise people not to get D/G done to old sashes but given the choice between someone binning the old sashes or me putting D/G into them, it’s an easy choice for me.
@GrahamH wrote:
It’s issues such as these, which involve the retention of original fabric while offering a energy-saving solution, that aren’t getting enough public airing.
The economics of putting double glazing into old sashes is shaky, it is my belief proper draught proofing can make a set of draughty old windows much more comfortable for the inhabitances of a house.
S.O.S.
@brainscan wrote:
S.O.S.
What advice can you give on replacing/restoring a set of bay windows such as in the attached picture. While the timber looks sound I really need to consider the fact that it is only single glazing and I will be getting house dry-lined new heating etc. so a total replacement with new double glazed seems to be the compelling option. Other houses on the street have gone for PVC and Aluminium clad timber but they still don’t look as nice as the original timber. I am putting it all out to tender with Cork based companies so if you have any pointers on keeping the cost down i would really appreciate it.
If you replace those windows you will become my enemy for life;)
One of the big problems with sashes made for double glazed units is the the companies that make them can’t keep the size of the sash down (2.25″-2.5″), so you end up with the frame being too big.
I can’t post which company I use for my materials but if you PM me your phone number I can go through the process with you.
S.O.S.
@GrahamH wrote:
Thanks for that S.O.S – I’ll keep that quote in mind, unless Pot Noodle can beat it ;). Sounds about right!
The only way someone can beat my price or quality is to do crap work.
@GrahamH wrote:
When you say you use Pilkington glass if asked for double-glazing, do you mean you use single-glazed Pilkington as an alternative, or double-glazed Pilkington? What do you do when a client insists on double-glazing with a Georgian sash? Do you take a deep breath and go with 30mm bars or stick to your morals?.
If someone wants low-e glass they must use a double glazed unit. I aim for a 14mm unit to keep the sashes as thin as possible but if I have the room I go with a 18mm gas filled double glazed unit (can’t fit the nozzel into a 14mm unit).
If one of my customers insists on double glazing in a Georgian sash well its not possible unless you have a 30mm glazing bar even then there are no guarantees. I just say its not possible unless they go for 1/1 and stick those god awfulplastic bars onto them (which I won’t do)
@GrahamH wrote:
Also, what sort of thickness of d/g unit is best, and is it possible to putty in double-glazed units? It would appear that using clunky beading instead of putty is now the only barrier to an acceptable use of thin d/g units in sash windows (Victorian anyway, whatever of Georgian). The use of specially treated high performance single-glazing which acts the same as double-glazing (and as featured on Grand Designs last week) doesn’t seem to have caught on here. It’s been available for years! Have you ever made use of this? (apologies for the twenty questions).
First you can put linseed putty on a double glaxed unit if you protect the rubber compound from the linseed with silicone or similar (the name of the one I use which I won’t post).
I’m very interested in the name of that high preformance glass not k-glass is it.
@GrahamH wrote:
It’s extraordinary the difference draught-proofing makes to sashes alright. Reducing the air changes in a room dramatically affects levels of heat retention. Indeed only recently I was in a modern house where the back door had a terrible draughty gap around the edges, and the room was about 50% colder than the rest of the house, in spite of having the same relative coverage of central heating.
The best way I found to draught proof a door is to route a groove around the door and install the same draught proofing I use for my sash windows.
Makes the door more difficult to open and close but by god it is very effective.
S.O.S. (Save Our Sashes)
@GrahamH wrote:
Out of curiosity, S.O.S or Pot Noodle, what’s the industry norm cost to build a large segment-headed two-over-two sash window from scratch? Obviously I don’t want to start WWlll here, but a ballpark figure would be much appreciated.
(apologies, not looking for work at the minute)
And perhaps to steer things to a more constructive end, what sort of challenges are you facing in terms of energy conservation versus authentic design considerations? Particularly in relation to double glazing, but also Low-E glass etc. How have you found local authorities in their attitudes towards preserving the integrity of windows of Protected Structures you’ve worked on? Do they give a toss over detailing? How do you advise your clients that insist on an insulation gain with their reproduction sashes over first generation PVC they’re replacing?
It’d be most interesting to hear your thoughts on these matters given you’re at the coal face.
When you take out a large window surround, being at a coal face would be less dusty.:D
It is very hard to give exact prices because different people and jobs require different things.
If for example someone wanted to keep the glazing bars to the proper 19mm then it has to single glaze but if they want double glaze then the bars have to increase to around about 30mm or be 1 over 1 or to have those god awful white bars between the panes.
I’m in the process of building some double-glazed corded sash windows 1 over 1 with curved tops that cost €2250 each fully finished and installed.
On the other hand I have done square 2 over 2 single glazed windows for €1700.(3mm drawn glass).
Double glazing:-I use Pinkingtons low-e glass when asked to use double glazing.
I deal mainly with private customers and in any case always steer my clients matching original details, I just don’t see any reason why I shouldn’t.
Regarding the insulation of heat as we all know most of the heat lost from old houses is through the walls and ceilings.
Once the draught-proofing is in an old sash window it makes the whole house warmer.
BER ratings reflect this.
Speaking for myself I advise my customers when they have me in their house to get their front and back door draught proofed at the same time.
I think the local authorities generally speaking are dense and don’t understand the importance of the small details but I have met some architects who work for the council who really sparkle.
The enforcement section of DLRCoCo really stinks. I saw a fantastic old house on a hill some years ago had all its old windows (20) then recently I saw it again and all the windows had been torn out and replaced with god awful uPVC so I reported it and I was told I had to prove it. Madness
I did some research and found that banker is a grave and personal insult.
Totally unnecessary:mad:
At least we know which banker gave you a debit card.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/england/essex/4741017.stm
@Pot Noodle wrote:
Still trying
:o€800 you must be having a larfI have seen the work of some of my competition including Bolgers and ex-Bolgers staff.
They don’t bother to remove the old pulleys and put new ones in.
They use plastic parting beads (which are far cheaper than wooden ones) which can cause window frames to split.
They don’t bother to strip the paint from the sashes nor the frame.
These are the hardest parts of the job.
Most of them charge more than me
@Pot Noodle wrote:
i wont be commenting any more
LOL
@kingswood wrote:
hi snooky
did you get your window issue sorted, let me know if you still need helpThe last tme snooky was on was April 05.
And I have first dibs:rolleyes:
@joyce wrote:
Bolgers will if they can conserve a sash window rather than replace it. Even if it means bringing it back to their workshop. If they find that the window is impossible to save they will match it with exact detail.
They have updated their website http://www.wjbolger.ie
Well you would say that wouldn’t you…
https://archiseek.com/content/showpost.php?p=62064&postcount=242
@Pot Noodle wrote:
i wont be commenting any more
@Pot Noodle wrote:
I never said that i painted them
@cheezypuf wrote:
A couple of the windows had glass replaced over the years. The old putty wasn’t cleared out properly and was left partially intact, and a new smaller pane was inserted, with more putty on top of the old. This was a pretty sloppy way to repair a window and has resulted in the glass being too small for the original frame when the layers of putty have been removed. As a result new glass will be needed anyway, so I thought glass that resembled the other (original) panes would be nice. Glass that isn’t damaged or too small isn’t being replaced.
I’m sorry that you find this sorely disappointing, but I’m doing my best to use the same materials and methods that were used when the windows were originally constructed. To this end, any replacement timber used is the same type as that removed, i.e. pitch pine. This has added to the expense, but I don’t think adding in pressure-treated deal, silicone filler or plastic beading would be very sensitive.
I’m not sure I agree with your analogy of a horse and cart. I think I’d prefer to use the example of someone with a period house choosing shades and types of paint that were available at the time the house was built, rather than modern hues and finishes.
I’m not sure if there is a right answer – perhaps it comes down to taste (or lack thereof)?
I think I have some of the old type glass in my possession if you are interested.
Let me know and I’ll check my store for it.@S.O.S. wrote:
Remove the sashes from the frame,
Remove old pulleys,
Strip the paint from the frame,
Install new pulleys.
Remove excess paint from the sashes,
make a groove in the top of the bottom sash to allow a pile carrier to be installed for draught proofing.
weight the top sash then install it.
cut and install parting beads with no draught brushes showing.
Weigh the bottom sash then install.
Cut staff beads to length.
Attach ring pulls, lifters and fastenersSmall window €800 on average
Big windows €900 on averagelarger orders are less.
If you do all that I do to windows you won’t get 4/6 windows done in a day.
@Pot Noodle wrote:
You may drag it out to justifie €800 a window we just get stuck in the days of ripping people off is long gone value for money now
Your English is appalling.
Can you write properly so every one can understand what you are saying.
However if I read you correctly you are accusing me of ripping people off. That’s a bit rich since you don’t even know how long it takes to restore a window properly.
@cheezypuf wrote:
I really don’t see how anyone could claim to restore six sash windows in a day and do anything like a proper job.
You are correct it’s not possible to do a proper job in such a short time.
@cheezypuf wrote:
I’m talking about proper restoration though, not patching them up with plastic bits.
As a minimum a restored window will need a printer, undercoat and gloss. How do you manage to get all three coats on and dry in one day, and on six windows? Not to mention replacing damaged timber, replacing cords, rehanging weights, removing old puty, waiting a month for the puty to dry before painting, etc?
I think we have superman in our presence…
@Pot Noodle wrote:
Thats robbery i could do about 4/6 a day
LOL
@Peter Fitz wrote:
completely recondition 4 – 6 sash windows a day ? doubt it. Anyone thats had a go themselves knows it can take an age … what do you charge at that rate? 200 a go ? ye can come down & give mine a good going over in that case 😀
I have done several restoration projects over the years and I have never heard of any man doing 4/6 windows in 1 day,
Pot Noodle, you still haven’t compared prices nor have answered to whether or not Bolgers/Ventrolla do restoration and repair of old sash windows or not.
Since Pot Noodle isn’t keen to answer my question maybe I should make a new thread entitled
Do Bolgers/Ventrolla restore sashes anymore? If so, what does it cost?
@Pot Noodle wrote:
€ 800 a window are you having a laugh
Remove the sashes from the frame,
Remove old pulleys,
Strip the paint from the frame,
Install new pulleys.
Remove excess paint from the sashes,
make a groove in the top of the bottom sash to allow a pile carrier to be installed for draught proofing.
weight the top sash then install it.
cut and install parting beads with no draught brushes showing.
Weigh the bottom sash then install.
Cut staff beads to length.
Attach ring pulls, lifters and fastenersSmall window €800 on average
Big windows €900 on averagelarger orders are less.
@Pot Noodle wrote:
Eh Hello seasoned window restorer we use a wooden parting bead with a neoprene draught excluder so it does’nt crack if overpainted and in my 28 yrs of doing this i don’t take kindly to your innuendos
I note you have not compared prices nor have denied that restoration is not what Bolgers do anymore.
I had a good look at the website and note they talk a lot about conservation but isn’t conservation is where you keep the old ones in place not throw them out onto a skip or whatever.
Restoration is where you repair the damaged ones and get them back to a sparkling state, this is what I do and very well too:D
I’ve always thought that grants should be available for restoration not for ripping out perfectly good windows and replacing them with sashes that any joinery could make, Bolgers or otherwise.
I also note that you have not understood what I was talking about when I spoke about using plastic parting beads, What I meant was when it expands it splits the side of the frame.
@Pot Noodle wrote:
I’ll give you a quote pm me
Its getting harder and harder to make ends meet isn’t it….
