Forum Replies Created
Well lets be honest, the facade that the new piece replaces was boring and bland as well. Its not the best, but its not the worst either.
JP, to clear up my comment on Baron Haussmann, Greg Franklin said that by Bertie Ahern in condeming the development was comparible to Baron Haussmann writhing in the grave. What I was saying that the worst parts of La Defense are similar to what is proposed in Spencer Dock ie all office and no life. I just found it odd that the Spencer Dock Development Corporation was being compared to the work of Haussmann, when the two are poles apart!!!
Hope this clears it up
Oh they still got permission for it, there will be a “Man-Utd” themed cafe (Beckham Burgers etc) 6 apartments and the Man utd superstore, its just what Dublin has been missing (note: irony).
OK, more responses from me:
1) Do you work for SDDC (or an associated company) as they are the only other people who have described this development in such an estate agent/developers view?
2) If it is such a brilliant and pivotal development for the docklands why are the docklands development authority objecting to it?
3) “As well as residential it will be partially corporate” get real, I dont call a development of between 4.6 and 6 million square feet of office space as partially corporate. Two 17 storey blocks of apartments at the back of the development is hardly a well balanced scheme.
4) Other than office space and a conference centre what is going to attract people to this area especially after 6 and at the weekends. Its amazing the amount of people who come to the IFSC for things like the St Patricks Day Fireworks or Red Bull Flugtag and go “I never knew this place existed” but soon see that outside of office hours is dead, and not worth coming back to.
5) What exactly do you mean when you say “modern office centres require this format”? In what way is this a ‘requirement’?
6)It will not create a “thriving, prosperous, and desireable new district for the city” – instead it will create a dull lifeless office park (albeit tall), with a transient population living in dull lifeless canyons of streets with nothing in the way of suitable facilities to create a sustainable population on even a 24 hour basis.
7) Using the “it would be a great loss for city and nation” is a well hackneyed phrase at this stage. It is using the lowest common denominator argument ie accept this or you will get nothing.. it is tantamount to blackmail.
8) The last paragraph just refering to creating communities elsewhere, why not create a community at Spencer Dock, what is so wrong with having a good mix of offices, accomadation and facilities?
Oh and the conference centre becoming a new internationally recognisable landmark for Dublin……I can see the tourists now amazed how the monumentally bald walls give no credence to its canalside location. Why not make the canal a focal point for a human side to the devlopment, I for one would love to see restrants bars and shops along the canalside. I would be a lovely place to sit in the summer especiaaly after a long day at the office.
Why cant we create an area that people will want to stay after work? or even visit at the weekend?
Shane, you are absolutely right about the need for sustainable development in this area, the IFSC population is transient at best, I for one would like to live here for quite some time yet (Been here 3 years already), but I don’t particularly want to live in the middle of an office park. Andy you are totally missing the point about the design – its not about the facades of the buildings (although they are a bit too ‘Dallas’ for my liking) or even particularly about the height of the buildings, but the content and the overall layout of the site. It will attract people on a 9-5 monday to friday basis leaving the place desolate in the evening and at the weekends, that is the sort of development that Dublin does not need – and indeed should not stand for.
Yes, unlike many locals down here, I have the option of living in Wicklow but why should I. I don’t want to live in the sprawling mess that Dublin’s suburbs have become. Why should I contribute to pollution along the Stillorgan Dual Carriageway or get crushed on the Dart. I live in the IFSC, I work in the IFSC. Why shouldn’t I want a good environment.
They are gutting the former ICS headquaters to build a ‘Man-United’ superstore. Even man united fans aren’t stupid enough to pull down this building!!!
Well considering the civil servants will not allow their precious car spaces on the ground level to be done away with we are still going to end up with a biscuit tin on stilts, set well back from the building line.
TEAR IT DOWN !
Does anyone know where we could see images of what they are proposing.
Ahh Bono you’re too good to us citizens
I think that its the Turbine going for dramatic effect over substance – at least TBP are going to put it up again asap.
Ah remember the days when the Irish Times used to let Frank McDonald complain about thing like this…where the hell is the media????????
Sorry you may be noticing how pissed off with this whole Archers thing Im getting
OK Greg just to clarify on a few points that you have made.
1) Campions Bar is still open (It never closed) but I don’t believe that it is an amazing jewel of undiscovered Dublin.
2) “Visually illiterate troglodytes” hmmm very interesting description of people who do not share your point of view on this matter. Is your own opinion perfect???
3) “Financial and physical enhancement” that sounds like the 1960’s developers battle cry of PROGRESS. I dont think that it will be of any physical enhancement to the area. Lets just see what sort of enhancement it adds – no doubt it will be the same as that other great centre of attractivness the IFSC (where I happen to live and work and am very happy to do so) however, having the choice of one not very good bar, one not very good and overpriced shop and one closed restraunt, this is the sort of facilities that will be provided in the Spencer Dock Development. If you want choice you have to go to the city centre. I have to agree with Dermot Desmond on this one – after 6 weekdays and on weekends the IFSC is the dullest place on the planet so why would we want to create 51 acres of the same. Are we incapable of learning from past errors. To create an exciting vibrant area you need to have mixed usage and more than on of each “facility” (Shop, pub etc) to have a Tesco’s down here would be great thanks very much. I for one would like to know who my neighbours are why are we creating another deeply unfriendy set of apartment blocks where no one knows your name. And also the ‘will there wont there’ question of Luas/Public transport/cross river link, I don’t think anything should be done until this is resolved.
4) Whilst I certainly dont want to see Mock Georgian/Victorian in this new area of the city why should we see mock AMERICAN. I dont have any particular dislike of renewal, in fact Im all for the renewal of this site, I don’t object to high rise (as I have said on many occasions on this site) but what I do object to (and I would say most of the people who object, is the inherant poor design of the entire project. It is exceedingly bland, is not created as a living breathing area of Dublin but is nothing more than an inner city office park.
5) You are right in saying that we Dubliners do not diserve this development – not because Dublin is full of piss and litter but because this development adds nothing whatsoever to Dublin. And as for Baron Hausmann – you might as well blame there worst parts of La Defense on him.
I think its about time we started the campaign about this again and raise the media’s awareness, maybe pressurise the corpo to fine him say 1 million per month that it is late, or just put the bastard in prison like he was supposed to.
I’m sure that it will get better over time, its just that the current developments like Chief O’Neills do not embrace the space in front, preferring to hide behind the wall of the old distillery. Lets see what happens with the development of the Duffy brothers Scrapyard, hopefully it will have the retail units to bring the area to life. Does anyone know whats going on there?
Don’t forget that its only March at the moment, Lets see how the place looks in the summer – probably dusty from the building sites around the area, but I’m sure the place will start to catch on. Why not have something like the Temple Bar Market in the place, It would attract more people down there than the Horse fair.
I think the Spire is a much more interesting piece of architecture than the usual dross that is put forward for these competitions. Remember the mini Arc de Triomph that was proposed on the Late Late show a couple of years ago, as well as the usual “rebuild the pillar except with St Patrick on top” brigade or the viewing platform/revolving restraunt faction that want to take us into the 1950s. Almost every city in the world has their “Space Needle”/Telecom tower/Radio tower why must we automatically follow suit. I think that the spire in its simplicity is quite beautiful, of couse most people wont appreciate this until it is actually built (lest we forget how Napper Tandy led the angry mob bent on the destruction of works on the Customs House). It is time that we made a statement of our own to the world, it is the 21st century after all!!
I for one cannot wait to see the completion of this project.
I think that Dublin would be a lesser place without O’Connell Bridge house. So the building needs cleaning up, most buildings in Dublin do. Yes there is a need to do something with it (reopen the Rooftop restraunt for one – what a spectacular venue). But I for one would be very disappointed if another Dublin landmark (and I mean that sicerely folks) was to be lost to the 5 storey mock-Georgian brick and clocktower brigade. What other suggestions would people make for O’Connell Bridge House (serious ones please). As they say Beauty is in the eye of the beholder, and whilst I wouldn’t go as far as to call O’Connell Bridge House beautiful, I will say that it is part of our heritage, and is as much a part of Dublin as the GPO. So renovate it please, replace the prefabricated panels (they do look naff) but don’t kill the building.
Also get rid of that replacement for the Harp, its just as bad.
I’m reminded about the tale of the Siemens Nixdorf building just off Leeson Street, which was built around 20-25 years after the planning permission was given around the late 1950s. This too is a crock that Dublin could have done without!
PS Read the full version of events in Frank McDonald’s ever excellent “Destruction of Dublin”.
I noticed some groundworks going on there the other Saturday (22nd January) so it looks like its going ahead.
Ah well, there goes the neighbourhood.
PS Ceilfi, are you mad? It’s by far the worst piece of late eighties crap that this city should never have (hopefully). Please let someone stop this rubbish. Lets face it the SOM building could have been the new Busaras (I know its cliched but hey), now all we get is Canary Wharf Jnr.
The non slip decking effects my vertigo, so I can’t look down when I cross it! Never got it on any other bridge.
I pass it most nights an I think that it adds so much to the building and the Dublin skyscape at night, now if only they could do something with the other 12 floors of the building!!!
I agree with John & MG about the treatment of the railings, but from what I have seen the entire scheme looks wrong.
1) The railings do not match the existing railings between the commercial buildings and the back of Blooms Hotel.
2) The shape of the overall rails in plan is non-symmetrical with that little kink taken out for the golden tree (money tree) or whatever its called.
3) The stone is too polished and is a contrast with the existing materials.
4) What the hell are they doing with those little cone things aroung the trees?
5) That block shaped thing for the fire escape from the car-park (Sam Stephenson had said that the fire-officer had said it was ok to get rid of this escape – so why is it still there?), It looks like they are going to have pagan sacrifices on it (and there probably will be some on Junior Cert results night!).
All in all it does nothing for the building and its environs, if anything it takes away from the composition as a whole.
Just my thoughts.