Rhabanus
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@Praxiteles wrote:
Well, here you are:
http://www.ccel.org/fathers2/ANF-03/anf03-49.htm“… over our cleansed and blessed bodies willingly descends from the Father that Holiest Spirit. Over the waters of baptism, recognising as it were His primeval seat, He reposes: (He who) glided down on the Lord “in the shape of a dove” in order that the nature of the Holy Spirit might be declared by means of innocence, because even in her bodily structure the dove is without literal gall. And accordingly He says, “Be ye simple as doves.” Even this is not without the supporting evidence of a preceding figure. For just as, after the waters of the deluge, by which the old iniquity was purged – after the baptism, so to say, of the whole world – a dove was the herald which announced to the earth the assuagement of celestial wrath, when she had beed sent her way out of the ark, and had returned with teh olove-branch, a sign which even among the nations is the fore-token of peace]On Baptism[/I], ch. 8.
This is a perfect time to read Tertullian’s treatise On Baptism. It constitutes THE first treatise ever written on teh sacraments. Tertullian comes to the defence of Baptism by water in this penetrating analysis of Christian initiation. A MUST read for every Catholic today. Written in Latin, and translated into English, this fascinating treatise is available fre of charg on line. There is even an English/Latin version available online FREE OF CHARGE, so you can compare the translation against the original, just in case you find the translation dubious in any way (it is not). Simply type in Tertullian on Baptism and see what pops up.
You will marvel at how Tertullian (N. Africa ca 166- post 220) explains the many occurrences of water in the Old Testament and how they point to Christian Baptism in the New. You will never read the story of Noah’s ark in the same way – either for your own interest or for your children and grandchildren.
Do be sure, by the way, that your children and grandchildren play with some toy version of Noah’s Ark. Let them become well versed in the story so that they can at some point make the connection between the ark and the Church! Noah is a forerunner of Christ. Noah built th eark out of wood and brought on board animals clean and unclean plus his three sons, their wives, and Mme Noah: 8 people to repopulate the earth after the flood.
The symbolism here is striking indeed: Christ, by the wood of the cross, brought into existence His Church which drew in both Jews (clean) and Gentiles (the unclean). It stays afloat despite the menacing force of torrential rains (crises, tumults, controversies, and scandals). The eight human survivors are commemorated in the eight-sided baptistery and baptismal font. Some medieval churches drew attention to the connection between baptism (gateway to the sacramental life) and Eucharist (apex of the sacramental life – “source and summit of the Church’s life and mission” according to Lumen gentium 10) by commissioning chalices modelled on thelocal baptismal font. English chalices in fact usually have octagonal bases. [This had a practical function for keeping the chalice in position as it rested on its side at various points in teh course of the post-communion ablutions.
The figure of the dove hovering over the ark, bringing the OLIVE branch to Noah (sign of God’s gift of peace to sinful but repentant humanity), is fulfilled by the Holy Spirit, who brings the sweet anointing (of chrism made of olive oil and balsam) from above.
The symbolism is quite rich. The Noah’s ark set is an important catechetical tool as well as a source of good fun for the little ones. Be sure that you have one around the house for your junior family members and guests.
Pope Benedict XVI has blessed The Ark of the New Covenant which is making its round right now in North America (I think it’s in Canada right now – and, let me assure you all, it is much needed there!!). It is a structure that looks like both Noah’s Ark and the Ark of the Covenant. It depicts Our Lady on the cabin and supports the monstrance containing the Sacred Host for Exposition and Benediction. The Eucharistic Lord is the Glory of the Father Who takes up His dwelling place among men over the Mercy Seat of the Ark.
I hope that it comes to Ireland, and to Cobh in particular, so that all of you can seen this beautiful object.
Praxiteles wrote:In French gothic cathedrals, time was divided between the North Transept which represented the past, and hence the Old Testament]Brilliantly arranged! Note the powerful eloquence of the aquatic motif of redemption through water (from Christ’s pierced side on the cross – together with the Precious Blood) inthe South Transept. Water cleanses and restores life; in the sacraments it wipes away sin and restores the divine life of grace to the parched soul. This is true of the water of Baptism (Christ’s pierced side) and the tears of Penance (the weeping Magdalen at the foot of the cross). It was water that brought St Patrick and the missionary saints to Ireland and took Irish missionaries away to bring salvation to the ends of the earth. That transept faces out toward the water. Because it is the transept closest to the water, sailors can gaze from their vessels upon the rose window of Our Lady Star of the Sea when the cathedral is lit from within, say at Vespers or evening Mass. When navigators are able to come into port and worship within the cathedral, they can gaze into that window of the south transept in the direction of the water.
@Praxiteles wrote:
St. Colman’s Cathedral, Cobh, Co. Cork
View of the North Transept
The gallery of statues under the window represents figures from the Old Testament. St Joseph, the last of the Patriarchs, David, Isaiah, Elias, Eliseus, Ruth, Esther Zachary, Elizabeth and St. John th Baptist -the last of the Old Testament Prophets.
This confirms an earlier notice of mine that in standard Gothic architecture, the North Transept features OT figures (not tabernacles).
The relief of the Espousals of the Blessed Virgin and St Joseph (beneath the OT figures) looks quite good in this photo.
Pardon, me – on closer inspection, it seems clear that Our Lady IS in the dead centre of the picture. I had not taken into account the angle.
How could I have suspected such a thing in the first place, one may ask? It comes from having witnessed firsthand the relief of Our Lady Mother of the Church on the West gallery of the Basilica of the National Shrine of the Immaculate Conception, Washington DC, where Our Lady is clearly off centre. One would scarcely get the impression that she exercises any important role in the life of the Church. She seems almost incidental to the life of the Church and not much of a conduit of grace.
Once you see something like that, you’re on your guard. Again, my apologies!
@Praxiteles wrote:
The Church of the Descent of the Holy Ghost, Dennehy’s Cross, Cork, built in 1957.
Not sure I like the figure of the Blessed Virgin Mary being off-centre in the apsidal mosaic. In the Pentecost, as elsewhere, Mary stands as the figure and Mother of the Church. The graces showered on her who is ‘full of grace’ overflow onto the apostles, disciples, and early members of the Church. According to the vision of John in Revelation (Apocalypse) 12, the Woman is surrounded by twelve stars – generally taken to mean the Twelve Apostles. Perhaps my vision is waning, but it looks to me as though Our Lady is off centre.
In the second photo of the nave, I note quite a bit of chit-chat going on. Is that usual now in Ireland before Mass? If so, it must be distracting to those who wish to pray quietly before celebrating the Sacred Mysteries.
@Praxiteles wrote:
St. Francis, Liberty Street, Cork
I particularly appreciate the symbolism of the facade of St Francis, Liberty Street.
The main portal is divided by five Roman arches – each representative of the five wounds of the stigmata borne by St Francis. Note the seven arches above these: the seven sacraments of the New Law – those outward signs instituted by Christ to give grace and participation in His Paschal Mystery. The Paschal Mystery itself is proclaimed strikingly near the top of the facade in the form of the Cross of San Damiano. This is the crucifix before which St Francis was praying when he heard the voice of Christ bid him “Francis, restore my Church.” Thinking that the voice meant for him to restore the crumbling church of san Damiano, Francis at once set about gathering stones to repair the church building. He came to understand, however, that the invitation was more daunting: Francis was to play a crucial role, along with St Dominic, in the revival of Catholic practice in thirteenth-century Europe and beyond.
I need not mention that Francis, although a genuine lover of God’s creatures, did not mar his architectural surroundings by designing and planting weird gardens with odd-looking lawn gnomes and other pests. He had the work of the Church to do: preaching the Gospel in season and out of season, living the ascetic life, practising penance, engaging in works of charity. In other words Francis built up the Church by caring for the living stones who comprise the Church. The pope of the day, Innocent III (reigned 1198-1216), had the wisdom and grace to recognise in Dominic and Francis the zeal of true Catholic Christian working under the influence of the Holy Spirit.
The facade of the Church of St Francis, Liberty Street, is an eloquent sermon in brick and mortar. It delivers a compelling catechesis before the visitor even sets foot inside the door.
@ake wrote:
St.Mary’s cloister- obscene
Is the cloister in St.Francis, Cork a proper cloister with four walks?is it public?
By the way on the topic of cistercians, does anyone have the book “Cistercian abbeys of Europe”, with photographs by Henri Gaud?
I really think cloisters are a sad absence in modern churches, notwithstanding their monastic function. For example in the medieval cathedrals of England, it is truly sublime to wander around a quiet cloiser garth when visiting the church… I believe there is a similar survival in Adare but I’ve never been
St.Audeon’s: Damn Christmas tree was blocking the altar. I really don’t agree with trees in churches, call me scrooge
[ATTACH]4016[/ATTACH]
[ATTACH]4017[/ATTACH]Che bella Madonna! Assolutamente spaventosa.
@Praxiteles wrote:
The Cistercian Abbey at Portglenone, Co. Antrim
Too sterile for my taste. Much prefer the other cloisters. Thanks for the photos, Prax!
What “nature-boy” got his talons into the cloister at Maynooth? Reminds me somewhat of that “artiste” who littered the gutted nave of St John the Baptist Drumacree Rd with his El Greco lawn gnomes.
Was good taste driven out of Ireland on 1 Jan 1970, like the snakes in St Patrick”s day (5th century)?
Utterly disgraceful! No need for such shameful neglect. Pure passive aggression.
How long, O Lord, how long???
Thank you, Prax, for the excellent photo-tour of Our Lady Dadizele in Belgium. Have you noticed that in spite of the dominance of the Gothic arch on the West facade and on the South walls and clerestory, the arch enshrining the gorgeous rose window of the South transept is actually Roman, not Gothic? I wonder what the architect was saying by this. Is it a nod, for example, to an earlier church in Romanesque style that eventually yielded to a Gothic or Neo-Gothic successor? Perhaps a melange resulting from reconstruction after The Great War?
Am I incorrect in suspecting that the same Roman arch over a rose window, which we see on the South facade of OL Dadizele, Belgium, bears a striking resemblance to that on the main facade of the parish church in Mallow Co., Cork? Do any of you architects out there understand what E.W.Pugin was communicating through this arrangement?
@Praxiteles wrote:
That must be Our Lady although I cannot be sure as the photograph is not too clear.
At first I thought it was St Anne and the Blessed Virgin, but the statue seems to represent a single figure. It doesn’t seem to fit the niche with the precision of the statues on the lower rank.
@Praxiteles wrote:
As at Clonakilty.
How about that small niche above the rose window? I note that it is filled with a statue. Is it Our Lady? Our Lady as a child? I cannot see it very well.
What are the particular iconographic attributes of the Madonna to whom the church is dedicated?
@Praxiteles wrote:
The niche above the South Rose window (exterior) contains a marble roundel depicting the Coronation of Our Lady as Queen of Heavan.
It would be great if the camera confraternity in Cobh could supply some images of these details! Hint….
Shouldn’t be surprised to learn that it was or is The Annunciation, given that the niche on the south transept is the Coronation. Bet that on the North wall was/is The Assumption. If there is one on the East wall, perhaps it is/was the Nativity or the Crucifixion.
A relief makes sense, given the size of the niche in relation to the others lower down on the building.
Many thanks in advance for whatever the camera crew can muster!
@samuel j wrote:
Can attest to e, f and g …..
What about the empty niche above the rose window? Any clue as to the original design? Was it supposed to contain an image of Our Lord? the Blessed Virgin? St Colman? St Patrick? The Blessed Trinity? Surely there must have been a plan to fill that niche. The other niches on lower levels are beautifully filled with statues of the saints.
Seems odd to me that this niche was left empty. Anyopne have a plan of the iconographical and hagiographical programme of the caathedral’s facade?
Thanks for the shots of Klonakilty.
I do not wish to be awkward, but why is the niche over the West window devoid of a statue? Was a statue originally designed for it subsequently removed (and destroyed) or perhaps not seen to completion in the first place?
Few features of ecclesiastical architecture bother me more than vacant niches. I can scarcely believe that Ashlin had no plan for that niche. It pleads for a statue!
The lamp and alarm bulb constitute a dual atrocity. The lack of space in front of the door ruins the visual impact of this beautiful church. Are those in charge of the fabric deliberately trying to give offence or are they just plain stupid?
@THE_Chris wrote:
Other sculpture thing on the way down –
These ones are from outside. Just interesting if anyone wants to look for how the green stuff has changed or anything like that. 3 1/2 years ago these were.
And thats that folks, thats the lot. Hope you enjoyed 😀
A Feast for the Eyes! Many thanks, Chris!
I particularly appreciated the shot of the main entrance featuring Our Lady, Porta Coeli, flanked by St Joseph and St John the Baptist.
A Happy New Year to all!“I encourage you to do what you can to preserve the beauty of that cathedral for the generations to come.”
Thank you, Holy Father, for your mandate to preserve the magnificence and integrity of Cobh cathedral.
Thank you, Your Lordship, for spilling the beans and revealing the Pope’s real sentiments about St Colman’s Cathedral.
Thank you, Irish Independent, for spreading the good news far and wide. Even though you confused one of the architects, Edward Pugin, with his father, Augustus Welby Pugin, your heart was in the right place.
Thank you, FOSCC, for your valiant efforts to keep St Colman’s a world heritage site of inestimable value.
Thank you, Fearg, Sam, THE_Chris, and Prax for the splendid photos of so many churches great and small, defiled and undefiled, and for your steadfast witness to Truth, Beauty, and Goodness.
Thank you, all contributers and readers of this thread, who have made it a five-star site and a source of consolation in the trying times in which we find ourselves.
God grant you a Blessed Christmas and a New Year filled with Peace and Pleasing Architectural Aesthetic!
And to all a good night!
@Praxiteles wrote:
Yes, I am still here…what do want?
Can’t say what Sam wants, but upon viewing the last several photos of that chapel ‘before’ and ‘after’ the brutalism perpetrated upon it, Rhabanus wants more than a good stiff drink. Rhabanus wants the formation of a “liturgical-revolution crimes” council not unlike a war crimes council, with public trials for these iconoclasts.
They ought to be denounced (no use discreetly covering up for the vandal, there, Prax!) and made to do penance and make restitution for their crime of sacrilege and iconoclasm. Problem is the old pendards are probably neither clever nor strong enough to scrape their handiwork off the walls and restore the sanctuaries to their former glory, but at least they could be made to scrape off the undersides of pews and, upon gazing into the filled pails, consider their own many and grievous sins of iconoclasm.
Of course the impact of restoration would go much farther if the drive were to be guided and accompanied by a campaign of evangelisation and catechesis. When Our Lord from the Crucifix bade St Francis of Assisi “Restore my Church!” the saint initially took the words literally and commenced the restoration of San Damiano church. He leventually came to understand the command to have meant much, much more: the restoration of the Church as the Mystical Body of Christ through a campaign of evangelisation through preaching and the ascetic life.
This could trigger a revival of faith, hope, and love throughout Ireland, if only a leader even remotely touched by the spirit of evangelical zeal would exercise some much-needed leadership. Instead of hirelings, the Church is in serious need of real pastors.
The original (and restored) beauty of these Irish churches could win many people of good will back to the practice of the Faith of Our Fathers. “How long, O Lord, how long?”
@Praxiteles wrote:
This little gereatric soviet is very dangerous. Note that after the last advice they gave (it was all right to wreck the interior) none of them has resigned or even tendered a resignation. You would imagine that a body which caused major embarrassment to its boss would have enough sense to know that it cannot continue and must go. But, in this case, no such civic sense. The only explanation I can think of is that a number of the members must not have sufficiently clear faculties to be able to tender a valid resignation!!
The actions of this little soviet have been highlighted in relation to Cobh Cathedral. But, nobody notices their pernicioous influence on the many small and insignificant churches in the diocese of Cloyne. ONe could cite the example of St. Joseph’s Church in Liscarroll, Co. Cork. The cultural revolutionists have been busy on this project and will no doubt have unanimously recommended a major wreck job on this mid 19th century village church.
In North America those who show similar symptoms are declared ‘incapable’.
Roll the calendar back 40 years (“Vatican II and all that …”), friends, and consider that the vast majority of these time-servers were in their prime (mid-30s and 40s) ripping and snorting through the local houses of worship in ‘the spirit of Vatican 2’. These artful codgers have been in office for far too long. Problem with self-proclaimed or publicly-acclaimed ‘liberals’ is that they are liberal with most things except their own money and their power. You will find them fairly illiberal, too, when it comes to tolerating views at variance with their own.
At any rate, it ought to have dawned on the local Ordinary that his committee has long been in need of rejuvenation. Or is he expecting a plenary indulgence for stalking (stocking??) the gilded boneyard?
Question: Does His Lordship use a gavel, a crozier, or a scythe when he presides over their meetings?
