Rhabanus

@Praxiteles wrote:

That a modern Irish parish priest, in contrast to his 19th. century counterpart, does not know what he wants when he goes to build or decorate a church is merely symptomatic of a much deeper crisis in the Irish Church where bishops no longer know how to govern and, not infrequently, are no longer capable of knowing or identifying orthodox Catholic doctrine and practice.

In the case of the Cobh debacle, we find a bishop guffing (or having guffed on his behalf) ideas about communal worship that not only reduce, but ultimately eliminate, the idea of the priest as one constituted in Sacred Orders to act in Sacris before God on behalf of mankind -and having the gall to refer this a the Liturgical Movement or as Liturgical renewal. And this without knowing or realizing that the same ideas were expressely condemned by Pius XII in 1948 with Mediator Dei and who clearly either cannot or will not understand what he reads in the Rite of Priestly ordination. Patently, a demonstrable specimen of the cloud of unknowing!

This crisis of identity, and of purpose, manifests itself in other areas which are best not entered into here.

Point well taken, Prax. This parlous state of affairs doubtless makes life rather challenging for the good, faithful priests who go about their apostolic duties with sincere conviction and unalloyed commitment to their priestly state and its inherent responsibilities. For whilst the time-servers and the gadflies lurch from one crisis to another, leaving a swath of confusion, anger, and misery in their wake, priests seriously intent upon their duties must contend with the fallout from the ridiculous bahaviour of the overindulged narcissists pandering for higher offices in the chancery. Thank heaven the faithful can tell the real sheperds from the hirelings. It all looks rather different in the vanity rags that pass for diocesan newspapers these days.

Tell me, Prax, are there Clown Masses in Ireland? They’ve occurred in Australia, Canada, and the United States. I recall that quite a row broke out in the diocese of Victoria, Canada, where an Italian widow and her family took action because, as the loved one’s casket was wheeled into the church, clowns in full costume and make-up appeared from a side entrance and proceeded to tie helium-filled balloons to its handles. The family was confused and ultimately appalled. How did such a situation arise in the first place?

The following true story suggests that the craziness is still not out of everyone’s system. On Sunday, 31 October 2005, in a parish church in one famous diocese in the USA, a priest concluded the evening Mass by slipping behind a screen (not, I might add, a rood screen, but some flimsy structure erected behind the all-important chair), and, re-emerging in the costume of ‘Spiderman,’ ran down the central aisle from the sanctuary to the front doors. The faithful had been told the week beforehand that they should feel free to come to Mass in their Halloween costumes, since the children would probably go out for ‘Trick-or-Treat’ and the adults were likely to attend fancy-dress balls. The faithful duly arrived Sunday evening (31 Oct) to find plastic spiders adorning the candlesticks on the altar and cotton stretched thinly around the altar to give the impression of spiderwebs. The arachnid theme had invaded the very sanctuary of th Lord and laid the scene for the ultimate emergence, after Mass, of Fr Spidey. Although many of the parishioners were ripping mad at this display of sacrilegious buffoonery and profane vulgarity, no suspensions, interdicts, or any other consequences were forthcoming. Business as usual – – monkey business!

The thing that really galls me is that the guffers and the lickspittles, the panderers and the time-servers are all rewarded lavishly, since their antics seem well in keeping with “the spirit of the times” even though ‘the times’ themselves lapsed forty years ago. What a pity the episcopate hasn’t checked the calendar recently, otherwise they’d realise that the sixties and the seventies, for whatever those decades were worth, are long gone, and that the Church has moved beyond the perceived need to cater to entities which only despise and mock her.

Church architecture fora, such as this one, play a prominent role in keeping hope alive in those who recognise the need for true beauty, proportion, and harmony in church buildings. They also serve as a witness to the overwhelming majority who want to retain and enjoy beautiful liturgical edifices despite the determination of the vain, the frivolous, th eobstinate and the obsolete to consign the legacy of our forebears in the Faith to the ash heap of history.

So post the broadcast times of any Clown Masses that might be taking place in Ireland over the next little while. I hear they get a bit lean in Lent, but they experience a surge of exuberance around Easter.

I’ll be watching for times.

@corcaighboy wrote:

From today’s Irish Independent. I am sure regular posters here may find issue with the part I have underlined re experts!

Builders sore over priest’s tender

ANGRY builders have accused their parish priest of snubbing them by awarding a lucrative &#65533]They are the architects, the experts[/U]. You pay expert consultants on any job you are not capable of doing yourself,” he said.

Four other companies which indicated an interest were told not to submit tenders. One of them, GKT, was told it didn’t have sufficient experience in working on chapels to be considered for the job.

“That was an inadequate response. We finished off work on St Patrick’s Church in Belleek some years ago when the original contractor was unable to do so,” said GKT boss Brendan Keown, a member of the Bundoran congregation.

Thanks, CB for the enlightening newsbite.

FYI:

The Constitution on the Liturgy (1963) of Vatican 2 states:

“16. The study of the Liturgy is to be ranked among the compulsory and major courses in seminaries and religious houses of studies; in theological faculties it is to rank among the principal courses. It is to be taught under its theological, historical, spiritual, pastoral, and canonical aspects. Moreover, other professors, while striving to expound the mystery of Christ and the history of salvation from the angle proper to each of their own subjects, must nevertheless do so in a way that will clearly bring out the connection between their subjects and the liturgy, as also the underlying unity of all priestly training. This consideration is especially important for professors of dogmatic, spiritual, and pastoral theology and for professors of holy Scripture.”

If that is not sufficiently clear even to the merest dolt, read on:

“17. In seminaries and houses of religious, clerics shall be given a liturgical formation in their spiritual life. The means for this are: proper guidance so tht theu may be able to understand the sacred rites and take part in them wholehaertedly; the actual celebration of the sacred mysteries and of other, popular devotions imbued with the spirit of the liturgy. In addition, they must learn how to observe the liturgical laws, so that life in seminaries and houses of religious may be thoroughly permeated by the spirit of the liturgy.”

One would expect someone “thoroughly permeated with the spirit of the liturgy” to be an invaluable resource to a church architect. As a priest, Fr Munster or for that matter any other man ordained to the presbyterate, ought to be able to communicate effectively to the architects and contractors the liturgical needs and requirements that must be satisfied if they are to be granted the privilege of working on a church.

“18. Priests, both secular and religious, who are already working in the Lord’s vineyard are to be helped by every suitable means to understand ever more fully what it is they are doing in their liturgical functions; they are to be aided to live the liturgical life and to share it with the faithful entrusted to their care.”

Do the seminaries in Ireland not provide a thorough liturgical formation that would enable parish priests to sit down with an architect and a contractor and to set out priorities, aims, and objectives, reminding them of ecclesial customs and laws that are to be observed in designing new churches and in planning renovations of older churches? If not, then help can be acquired in remediating education that ought to have been provided by the seminary.

A final note from the Sacred Congregation of the Clergy, Circular Letter Inter ea to presidents of the conferences of bishops, on continuing education and formation of the clergy, especially the younger clergy, 4 November 1969 [Acta Apostolicae Sedis 62 (1970) 134:

“11. A strong spiritual life and sound theological knowledge enliven and nurture pastoral motivation and ministry, an effective administration of the sacraments, a convincing preaching of God’s word, and every form of pastoral charity: in short, the entire service for which priests have received ordination.”

]All citations above are available in ICEL, Documents on the Liturgy, 1963-1979: Conciliar, Papal, and Curial Texts (Collegeville MN: Liturgical Press, 1982.]

Perhaps the diocese was shortchanged by the seminary – in which case there really ought to be some restitution and reparation for the ‘bill of goods.’

@Praxiteles wrote:

Here we are: some pictures of the Immaculate Conception in Bundoran, Co. Donegal, diocese of Clogher, built in 1859.

Ferg is right on the question of nasty porches!

Just awful, all too awful!

Clearly, YOU-KNOW-WHO woz ere! It overwhelms me that anyone could be so utterly void of imagination.
We should consider a special category in the Will DOsing stakes for the the most imaginatively
challenged “architect” in Ireland!
That banner on the left really gets me. Anyone needing to hang up such a thing muct have
an Angstgefuehl about his identity even more acute than that of Franz Kafka!

The tatty rags, the busy ‘bizness’ glitzily fencing off what once was the sanctuary from what used to be the nave of the church, the asymmetry which relegates the crucifix to the right wall of the triumphal arch, the flimsy posies plunked down right in the centre of the (truncated) altar of sacrifice, plus the other misplaced bits of frippery scattered hither and yon all lead to one inexorable effect: LITURGICAL VERTIGO.

Franz Kafka, Alfred Hitchcock, and Keanu Reeves are all wrestling in a cosmic brawl as Shirley Temple taps her way through the debacle sprinkling posies, turning pirouettes and pas-de-deux, and singing coyly: “On the go-oo-oo-d ship Lolly-pop!”

Ecrazer le goop!

@Praxiteles wrote:

A question: can we say that the gothic revival began in Ireland with the building of the Chapel Royal in Dublin Castle by Francis Johnson in 1807?

The following pace Archiseek:

http://irish-architecture.com/buildings_ireland/dublin/southcity/dublin_castle/chapel.html

I’d say that was fairly on the mark.

@Fearg wrote:

Newry Cathedral:

I think the Cathedra in Newry has been mentioned several times on this thread – here is a picture of it in original position:

[ATTACH]4279[/ATTACH]

And Now:

[ATTACH]4280[/ATTACH]

Great juxtaposition Fearg! The contrast could not be more glaring!
What got into the water at Newry?
And whose hiding those pinnacles? Are they just lying abandoned in the basement, or is someone putting them to profane or vainglorious use?

Can you get to the bottom of these questions, Fearg?

Once you’ve collected about 300 more of these contrasting expositions, you ought to publish them in one big book with a foreward titled “J’accuse!!!” Then photos of the wreckovators themselves should be inset into the shots of their handiwork ad perpetuam rei memoriam.

After Moses melted down the golden calf, he forced the people to drink the water made bitter by the ashes of the idol which had been sprinkled into it. In this case, the ashes can be mixed in with the Kool-Aid. Cheers!!

@Praxiteles wrote:

Even so, there is an awful lot more of this archive extant than is the case with the archives of Mayer of Munich (bombed in 1942) and of Oppenheimer’s of Manchester (disappeared 1960s when the firm closed). It is still an invaluable source especially when you think of what happened to many churches in Ireland in the 1970s and 1980s.

No doubt about it. James1852, you are sitting on a treasure. Persuade your student contact to collaborate with you on publishing a book and do, please, keep an archive of your work. This is of the gravest importance for ecclesial and Irish heritage. Yours is a gold mine that has yet to be explored.

@Praxiteles wrote:

It would also be useful to compile a photographic archive of the interior and exterior of the building. Amazingly, there is no archive attached to the Cathedral – another consequence of not having an institutional provision for the maintenance of the building!

No archive attached to the cathedral?? This is barbaric! Even Alaric and his Visigoths had a more efficient system for tracking their property. I wonder how well the antique dealers have done because the cathedral does not have its own archive? For shame!

Perhaps that prelate finds himself inter surdos et absurdos

? @Praxiteles wrote:

That is certainly a big difference from the situation in Cobh where we have had umpteen examples of the dialogue of the deaf with those surrounding bishop Magee. They truly are the most incorrigible lot this side of Peking!

Informtive, insightful; much appreciated.

@Praxiteles wrote:

Here is a note on Antoni Gaudi:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Antoni_Gaud%C3%AD