Rhabanus

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  • in reply to: reorganisation and destruction of irish catholic churches #770234
    Rhabanus
    Participant

    @Praxiteles wrote:

    St. Mary’s Church, Buttevant, Co. Cork

    This photograph shows what happened to the sacristy window when it was “restored” and clad in thick stormglazing. While some effort was made to reproduce the diamond carrés of the original clear glazing, no explanation is available for the presence of three heraldic devices set into the new glazing.

    The effect of the stormglazing is to ensure that the effect of the tracery of the window is never again seen by anyone. Again, all this happens with the spparent tacit nod of Cork County Council which never required a Planning Application to be made and considers this kind of intervention to be “normal” day to day maintenance.

    The sacristy was built in 1855 by the Cork architect and antiquarian Richard Brash.

    Unfortunately, if Cork County Council permits the dismantling of the adjacent west transept window to go ahead, then we can all expect a result not too dissimilar to what happened to this window.

    The second photograph shows the mess made by the stormglazing. Please note the aesthetically pleasing aluminium cross bars. Praxiteles does not know how the tracery manages to support the weight of this thick stormglazing and is wondering what the weight of stormglazing covering an area 20×16 is likely to the tracery of the west transept should the lunacy proceed.

    Heraldic devices?
    You mean three monograms – or rather two monograms, since one is merely duplicated as is the case with the crosses in the baldachino of Waterford Cathedral (see several frames above on this very thread).
    The central monogram elevated higher than the duplicated monogram stands for the Holy Name of Jesus; the second monogram flanking the Holy Name is the labarum of Constantine: the Greek letter ‘chi’ (X) surmounted by the Greek letter ‘rho’ (P): the first two letters of the Greek word XPISTOS or Christos. Constantine used this labarum since the time he saw it in a vision on the night before his famous battle on the Milvian bridge, when he defeated the forces of Maxentius and paganism.

    The labarum, like the cross (of which it forms a variation) is not some Christian frill or gew-gaw to flank another monogram. What is current arrangement says in iconographic terms is: Christ Jesus Christ. It would have made some sense had the monogram of the Holy Name been flanked on the right by the monogram of the Blessed Virgin Mary (usually an A for AVE superimposing several or all of the letters of MARIA); and on the left the monogram of St Joseph (usually an S superimposed on a J). Then it would have read: Mary Jesus Joseph: the Holy Family. This would make iconographic sense, particularly as the Holy Name of Jesus is elevated higher than the other two monograms. In that case it would more correctly be read as: Jesus – Mary – Joseph.

    Rhabanus’ question: why is the Holy Name of Jesus flanked by the Christ monogram? Simply because they are religious-looking and identifiably Christian? What is the rationale? Were they found in a jumble sale or taken from another church or churches? The style of the Holy Name looks different from that of the Christos.

    They look quite out of place as exhibited in this photograph. Even their position within the dimensions of the window looks dubious.

    This is the kind of arrangement one expects of a four- or five-year old who cuts out pretty symbols for a scrap book and then slaps them together in a way that, to the five-year-old, looks neat and orderly. Who is responsible for this particulary arrangement?

    Rhabanus
    Participant

    @ake wrote:

    I found this in the National Photographic Archive. Online!
    Waterford Cathedral, in it’s original glory.
    [ATTACH]5394[/ATTACH]
    And now]5395[/ATTACH]
    This makes me dangerously angry. Besides the loss of the stenciling you can see the choir stalls have been moved back away from the altar, and the Baldacchino whitewashed. How did such infant-minded ignorant hippy bastards ever get into the position of power over the architectural decoration of this great work of art, and all the others like it throughout the country? How? Who let this happen? Why did the parishioners and the city corporation allow this? Once they saw it why did they not order them to reverse it? Was there nobody left in Ireland that could distinguish between these two photographs?

    Note how the “renovators” replaced the face of Christ on the baldachino with a triangle (symbol of the Holy Trinity) but flanked by two crosses! What is going on there?? When did the Cross become an ancillary bit of decor to be duplicated like a cherub or another angel? At least the original designers and artists knew the Catholic religion and were possessed of some artistic eclat.

    I like the Stations of the Cross on the pillars in the original arrangement. I do not recall having seen the Stations painted right on pillars before. They usually comprise images, often in relief, in the walls of the nave.

    There must be a way to effect a reversal of this vandalism and to restore the sumptuous interior. Is there a Catholic in or near Waterford today even remotely interested in his or her religious, cultural, or artistic heritage?

    Rhabanus
    Participant

    @Paul Clerkin wrote:

    There is no before picture of St Macartan’s in that book. The book is basically a defence, and showing the crime would work against the defendent.

    A pity that Moyra Doorly did not include St Macartan’s in her book No Place for God: The Denial of the Transcendent in Modern Church Architecture (San Francisco: Ignatius, 2007). An excellent book crying for a follow-up. Perhaps Ireland next?

    Rhabanus
    Participant

    @Praxiteles wrote:

    The Cathedral in Loughrea would be a candidate.

    At village level, it would be difficult to rival the Chiurch of the Scared Heart in Imokilly, near Midelton.

    Have any photos of Imokilly been posted on the thread? I think it’s time we had some interesting iconography. Some Celtic saints with their stories would be nice.

    St McCartan, for example, or St Colman, St Columkille, or St Killian, St Finbar, St Fenton, or St Finian.

    Rhabanus
    Participant

    @Praxiteles wrote:

    I do not think that that is stencil work. My recollection is that it is mosaic work. But I might be wrong.

    That explains its vibrancy of colour. The gold tiles are splendid. The greens are delightful.
    The ‘Celticity’ of the design I suppose is unusual and perhaps not something one would hope to see much in evidence elsewhere; but it certainly works well here.

    Rhabanus
    Participant

    @ake wrote:

    The church in Trim, Meath. Some good decoration in the east end.
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    [ATTACH]5287[/ATTACH]

    Many thanks, ake! These shots revived my drooping spirit!

    The stencilling is exquisite and retains a distinctly celtic character. Were they recently restored or have they been in this mint condition all these decades? Absolutely splendid! Truly amazing that the HACKs and the latterday henchmen of Cromwell allowed this church to pass unscathed.

    FIVE STARS to the artists and FIVE STARS to the clergy who commissioned them and FIVE STARS to the great members of the lay faithful who supported this worthy work. This is what is known as a WIN-WIN situation. Everybody wins and nobody loses. Why can we not have more of this, please?

    Rhabanus
    Participant

    @Praxiteles wrote:

    Rhabanus!

    Any idea of where one moght find a copy (perhaps electronic) of Caluse de Vert’s Explication des Ceremonies de L’Eglise?

    YIKES!!

    I just checked on ABE-books.com only to discover that they are selling vol 4 for $173.00, vol 1 for $181.00, vol 2 for $190.00+ and vol 3 for over $200.00!

    The reprint was done by Farnborough. The monks at Farnborough ought to be approached to reprint the four volumes at a reasonable price.

    There must be a way to get this important work into interested hands without stooping to highway (or internet) robbery!

    Rhabanus
    Participant

    @Praxiteles wrote:

    Rhabanus!

    Any idea of where one moght find a copy (perhaps electronic) of Caluse de Vert’s Explication des Ceremonies de L’Eglise?

    EUREKA! I have found it:

    Vert, Claude de, 1645-1708.:
    Explication simple, litterale et historique des cérémonies de l’Église /
    Westmead : Gregg Interational, 1970.
    4 v. : plans (1 fold.)

    Who’s Caluse??? an acquaintance perhaps in the calabooze of the rue Toulouse?
    Rhabanus has enough to do looking up his recherche topics without chasing after a wild goose or a red herring.

    Should be a snap to find a copy of this 4-volume reprint.

    Rhabanus
    Participant

    Will get back to you on that tomorrow afternoon (24 July 2007). In transit at the moment.

    Meanwhile, read Butler’s Lives of the Saints for 24 July – St Christina the Astonishing. The account, even in the version severely pared down by Michael Walsh never ceases to astonich Rhabanus.

    By the way, did you ever find an illustration of the Brigettine church at Vadstena?

    Rhabanus
    Participant

    @Praxiteles wrote:

    Sorry about that Rhabanus!

    This is the feast of St Bridget of Sweden (13-3-73). After bearing eight children, she became the foremost lady-in-waiting the the Queen of Sweden. After various mystical experiences and pilgrimages, she left the court and established a monastery for nuns and monks at Vadstena. Any architect or lover of architecture should find much of interest in the conventual church that she built at Vadstena. Among medievalists who have written on it is Stephan Borgehammar. The design of the church is quite unusual.

    Rhabanus
    Participant

    @Praxiteles wrote:

    Was this a Vosko job?

    Couldn’t say for sure. Checked a few sources, but turned up nothing.
    There’s a campaign in progress to do even more renovations, including the installation of air conditioning.

    Note, however, what is displayed in the ceiling at the transversal: the cardinal’s coat of arms.

    I should have hoped for a depiction of the Ascension of the Lord, or The Glory of the Holy Name of Jesus, or Christ Coming on the Clouds in Glory as Judge of the Living and the Dead. Something of a liturgical, sacred, or even a generally religious theme.

    Remember Noel Coward’s play Cavalcade? (It was later turned into a film – 1933.) It contains a song titled “The Twentieth Century Blues.” How can one look upon the wreckage and not hear that song wailing away? One line immediately comes to mind:
    “Hey! Hey! Hey! – Call it a day!”

    Ake, help me wheel the piano under one of those palm trees. Prax, pour us all a round of gins and tonics. I feel a song coming on –
    “I’ve got those Twentieth-Century Blues!”

    Rhabanus
    Participant
    ake wrote:
    Holy name Cathedral, Chicago.
    [ATTACH]5247[/ATTACH]
    Where once stood statues of Our Lord and the Blessed Virgin Mary, there now stand potted palms. That figure over by the side altar – Dr Livingstone, I presume?

    At least there is something left with which to work here, if only the shell. Take a look at the Cathedral of Our Lady of the Angels in Los Angeles, California.

    Also be sure to check out the eco-church of St Gabriel of the Sorrowful Mother in Toronto, Canada, and see why Our Lady weeps.

    O quam tristis et afflicta
    Fuit illa benedicta
    Mater Unigeniti
    !

    Eia Mater, fons amoris,
    Me sentire vim doloris
    Fac, ut tecum lugeam.

    Rhabanus
    Participant

    If the photos are anything to go by, the door on the church looks as though it was painted purple. Perhaps it is just poor colouring on the photograph; but do look at the photo carefully, It looks like a poor job at any rate.

    Rhabanus
    Participant

    Only one question further: would it stand as a sequel or a prequel to Hand on Plough?

    Rhabanus
    Participant

    @Praxiteles wrote:

    There is a higly contentious account of the attemped wreckage of St Colman’s Cathedral, Cobh, Co. Cork in a book recently published by Veritas. It is called Hand to Plough and claims to be memoir of the life of Denis O’Callaghan, the Vicar General of the dioces of Cloyne. [Curiously, the cover featurees the author in a boat with no sight of a plough}. Accurate recollection distinguishes a memoir from mere ramblings or, worse still, rantings. In this, the book is sorely lacking. For example O’C claims that 40,000 persons signed a petition against the reordering. The FOSCC claimed that 24,000 signed. O,C claims that the Midleton Oral Hearing was personally presided over by the Chief Planning Officer. In fact it was conducted by an official of An Bord Pleqnala called Tom Rabbit. O’C claims that opposition to the reordering emerged in the wake of the Oral Heraing. In fact it was already vey well manifested and orgaised long before any Oral Hearing. O’C claims that he cannot understand the rationale of An Bord Pleanala and its decision to deny planning permission for the destruction of the sanctuary of Cobh Cathedral. He never mentions that every major heritage body in the country opposed the plan prepared by Professor O’Neill: An Taisce, The Georgian Society, The Department of the Envoronment, the Cork County Conservation Officer, the Pugin Society and of course the FOSCC. It takes some pretty thik skin not to have even a slight inkling that something maight be wrong with all these bodies opposing the scheme. While the book has quite a lot of crap about lay participation in the Church, O’C never once mentions asking anyone in Cobh or Cloyne diocese about plans or even mentioning the word “consultation”. Information sessions are mentioned but O’C forgets to mention that these took place AFTER the famous planning application was made and when no meaingful contribution could be made to a proper but non existent consultation process. O’C pretends that only the best professional advice was sought by the developers involved oin this project and conveniently omits mentioning that some of the best conservation and legal experts in Ireland were employed by the FOSCC and international experts were imported from Britain and Rome to give evidence on liturgical matters. O’C is heavily peddling the business of oiturgical gathering around the altar and physical proximity to the congregation. He may have to adjust his opinions in this respect after the publication of Summorum Pontificum – much as his 1966 artice in Woman’s Way on contraception was substantially improved upon in other section os the book. Then there are the three occasions on which we are told that Bishop Magee is very disappointed with the outcome of the whole debacle – as well he should since he was well warned as to the consequences of failure for him. Surely, is it not the business of a Vocar General to tell a bishop what he needs to her rather than what he thinks he would like to hear? Working that way, he will ensure that his bishop does not land in the huge embarrassment the bishop of Cloyne now suffers. One could go on about this book and about its account of the Cobh reordering. In short, it is a crappy book written by someone who wishes to reassures us that hge is really a very ordinary guy without realizing that none of us ever had reason to regard him as anything other!!!

    Sounds to me like alot of hot air. Who would even buy such a screed? If it should ever appear in North America, I intend not to buy it.
    I am dismayed that such a piece would have slipped through the referees at Veritas. Is someone there asleep at the switch?
    From your reportage, Prax, there appears to be a few holes in that canvas, which should make any hope of sailing a bit dodgy.
    Any episcopal memoirs coming up for sale lately? Keeping my eye peeled for one titled Foot in Mouth. Something frothy and scintillating for the dog days.

    Rhabanus
    Participant

    Dubious … very dubious.

    Rhabanus
    Participant

    @Praxiteles wrote:

    This is Brandolini, the Bishop of Sora. It is all explained by the fact that he was Annibale Bugnini’s secretary. Readers of the thread will be familiar with this name since he fetures on our notable iconocalsts page. I do not thing it matters too much. Brandolini is now 72 and will soon be sailing into the great oblivion before too long.

    Brandolini came from the same religious order as Bugnini: they were both of the Congregation of the Mission, known as Vincentians or Lazarists. Seems like croneyism to me, but this is strictly conjecture from someone on the outside. Nevertheless it looks like partiality and patronage.

    Rhabanus
    Participant

    Meanwhile the Bishop of Cloyne must be eating crow. But His Lordship shouldn’t weep like his Italian counterpart; otherwise he’ll dillute the minestrone.

    Rhabanus
    Participant

    @Praxiteles wrote:

    The most significant one would be St Audeons in Dublin. The old Rite is akso celebrated in St. Peter and Paul’s in Cork. While most dioceses in Irelans have made some accomodation for the 1962 Missal, 5 dioceses have consistently refused even the most minimal and restrictive use of the old Rite. Perhaps not insignifitantly, one of those is Cloyne where Bishio Magee displayed none of the generosity asked for by Pope John Paul II in Ecclesia Dei adflicta to accomodate traditionalist Catholics. It comes as no surprise that the matter has now been completely taken out of his hands. Indeed, as recently as three weeks ago permission for the use of the old Rite was refused to a group of people – politically this must have been one of the most stupid decisions ever made since what was refused three weeks ago MUST now be conceded.

    Some histrionic Italian bishop is going on and on about the motu proprio Summorum pontificum. A full report appears on Inside the Vatican Magazine newsflash@insidethevatican.com made available below.

    Sounds as though an acorn just landed on Chicken Little’s head and now he’s proclaiming the end of the world: “The sky is falling!!” Now watch him circulate around the barnyard stirring up panic among Henny Penny, Ducky Lucky, Turkey Lurkey, and all the rest. I think it’s high time that Foxy Loxy had dinner: Squab Lorraine.

    Just get a load of these juicy tidbits:

    “This day is for me a day of grief. I have a lump in my
    throat and I do not manage to hold back my tears. But, I will obey the
    Holy Father, because I am a bishop and because I care for him. However,
    I cannot hide my sadness for the putting aside of one of the most
    important reforms of the Second Vatican Council.” In fact, Monsignor
    Luca Brandolini, Bishop of Sora-Aquino-Pontecorvo and member of the
    Liturgical Committee of the Cei (Italian Episcopal Conference), hardly
    holds back his tears when he is asked for a comment on the
    reintroduction of the Tridentine Latin Mass: “Please, do not ask me
    anything, I do not wish to speak [about it], for I am living the
    saddest
    day of my life as a priest, as a bishop, and as a man.”

    Q: Monsignor Brandolini, why [are you] so upset?

    A: “It is a day of grief, not only for me, but for many who lived and
    worked in the Second Vatican Council. Today, a reform for which so many
    labored, at the cost of great sacrifices, animated solely by the wish
    to
    renew the Church, has been canceled.”

    Q: The optional return to the Tridentine Rite represents thus a danger
    for the Church?

    A: “We hope not. It remains to be seen in the future, but today an
    important reform of the Council was undermined.”

    Q: Why are you so touched by the decision taken by Pope Ratzinger?

    A: “The episcopal ring which I carry on my finger belonged to
    archbishop Annibale Bugnini, the father of the Conciliar liturgical
    reform. I was, at the time of the Council, a disciple of his and a
    close
    co-worker. I was close to him when he worked in that reform and I
    always
    recall with how much passion he worked for liturgical renewal. Now, his
    work has been canceled.”

    Q: You will not accept the “motu proprio” of Benedict XVI, then?

    A: “I will obey, because I care for the Holy Father. I have for him the
    same sentiment that a son has for his father. And then, as a bishop, I
    am bound to obedience. Yet, in my heart, I suffer deeply. I feel as if
    wounded in my heart, and I cannot help saying it. Nonetheless, if
    anyone
    in my diocese will ask me to follow the Tridentine rite, I will not be
    able to say no. But I do not believe this will happen, because ever
    since I have been the bishop of Sora-Aquino-Pontecorvo, there has never
    been anyone who has expressed a similar desire. I am certain that it
    will always be like this in the future.”

    *** NEW SUBSCRIBERS ONLY! Subscribe to Inside the Vatican Magazine for
    Only $34.95! Buy Now and Save
    $15.00!http://www.insidethevatican.com/offers/new-subscriber-offer.htm

    Rhabanus
    Participant

    @Praxiteles wrote:

    I am inclined to think that the statues in Sts Peter and Paul’s require something more sophisticated. There are still craftsmen working in the Tyrol who do this sort of stuff and fixing a pair of hands shouod be no bother to them.

    The quality of craftsmanship is still quite high there.

    By the way, now that the motu proprio has been released, can anyone tell me which churches have been doing the rite of 1962? Have there been many of such designated churches in Ireland? More in the cities than in the country? Vice-versa?

    How about monasteries or friaries? Any religious communities celebrating Mass according to the 1962 use there?

Viewing 20 posts - 201 through 220 (of 545 total)