Praxiteles

@apelles wrote:

The plastering in carrick on shannon was only removed last year I think.

Even the infamous Richard Hurley would have to be able to improve on this though..

Apelles, do you have any idea of who the glass is by?

@Canus wrote:

Two applications have just come to attention

2 LEITRIM CO CO REF NO 09/334 CARRICK ON SHANNON

Plans by Richard Hurley.

This is to restore plaster to walls and remove existing hideous Reredos, but with what ?

I expect we shall see more Japanese lattice work – with the wine wrack appearance we have in the North Cathedral in Cork.

St Colman’s Cathedral, Cobh Co. Cork.

And here is another of G.C. Ashlin’s drawings for the “hibges” of the West door of Queenstown Cathedral:

Notre Dame de Paris

While looking for some images of the Choir Stalls of Notre Dame Praxiteles was distracted and came across these images of the Portail du Jugement showing the equisite metal work which the the panels of the door were armed by Vulliot-le-Duc.

And here we have a close up of the north panel of the door with its pentures:

And here we have Viollet-le-Duc’s description of the making, assembly and mounting of these pentures as published in the Dictionnaire Raisonné de l’Architecture Francaise:

Dictionnaire Raisonné de l’Architecture du Moyeb Age:

“…Nous ne pourrions donner, dans cet ouvrage, l’ensemble des pentures de Notre-Dame de Paris; d’ailleurs ces ensembles ont été publiés en entier dans la Statistique monumentale de Paris d’après de très-bons dessins de M. BÅ“swilwald, et en partie dans l’ouvrage de M. Gailhabaud. Ce n’est pas là ce qui importe pour nous, mais bien les détails de la fabrication. C’est donc sur ce point que nous insisterons.

Les bandes de ces pentures n’ont pas moins de 0m,16 à 0m,18 de largeur au collet, sur une épaisseur de 0m,02 environ, et elles sont composées, comme nous l’avons dit ci-dessus, de plusieurs bandes réunies et soudées de distance en distance au moyen d’embrasses qui ajoutent une grande force à l’ouvrage et qui recouvrent les soudures des branches recourbées. Pour faciliter l’intelligence du travail de forge, nous procéderons du simple au composé.

Le carton tracé, dont nous donnons (fig. 10) un fragment, un bouquet, terminaison d’un enroulement, le forgeron a commencé par forger séparément chacune des brindilles: celle A, par exemple, ainsi que l’indique le détail a, celle B, ainsi que l’indique le détail b; celle C, ainsi que l’indique le détail c, etc…”

“…Si nous décrivons maintenant les procédés employés pour la façon de la bande ou du corps principal de la penture, nous aurons rendu compte, autant qu’il est nécessaire de le faire, de la fabrication des grandes pentures de Notre-Dame de Paris. Cette dernière pièce est la plus difficile à forger, surtout auprès du collet. La bande n’est pas faite d’une seule pièce de fer, mais d’un très-grand nombre de pièces soudées côte à côte et bout à bout.

Si nous prenons l’une de ces pentures, celle basse, au vantail de la porte Sainte-Anne que chacun peut examiner de très-près, nous verrons que cette penture se compose de cinq pièces principales (fig. 12): 1º le collet A; 2º le premier membre B; 3º le second membre C; 4º le troisième membre D; 5º le bouquet E. Chacun de ces membres a été assemblé séparément avec ses branches principales, ses branches secondaires, ses brindilles. De plus, la bande ou le corps de la penture se compose, pour le collet, de quatre barres; pour le premier membre, de trois barres; pour le second membre, de même; et pour le quatrième membre, de trois barres aussi, mais plus minces. Ces barres, parallèles et jointives, ne sont soudées entre elles qu’à leurs extrémités, en a, b, c, d, etc. Ces soudures se terminaient en palettes quelque peu amincies aux extrémités, en façon de ciseau. Lorsqu’il a fallu réunir ces cinq parties en une seule, les extrémités g, h, préparées, ont été chauffées et soudées, puis la soudure renforcée par une embrassure soudée. Les extrémités e, d, de même, et ainsi de suite jusqu’au collet…”

“Voici (fig. 11) un autre fragment des pentures de la porte Sainte-Anne4, qui présente la réunion des deux branches secondaires, celles A et B, et des brindilles a,b,c,d, à une branche principale C. Comme la branche D est la continuation de la branche principale C, ces trois branches A,B,D, ont été d’abord soudées ensemble en E, avec un prolongement EG finissant en ciseau. Sur ce plat de la soudure E a été soudé d’abord le groupe de feuilles H, puis la grosse branche C terminée par l’embase K et sa foliole, mais cette foliole a été étampée, ainsi que l’embase K, sur le fer de dessous E chauffé au rouge; la branche C elle-même a été soudée sur le prolongement EG et étampée en nervures, à chaud, après le premier martelage. Sur le corps des branches, quand on superpose des folioles, ainsi que le montrent les détails M, le point de soudure de ces folioles donne un renfort que le forgeron dispose à l’étampe en rosette, comme on le voit en O, ou en façon d’embase, comme on le voit en P. La difficulté est aussi d’obtenir, dans ces réunions de branches, des courbes qui se suivent régulièrement sans jarreter. Pour cela, l’ouvrier a tracé son carton sur une pierre ou une plaque de plâtre, et il rapporte, après chaque soudure, sa penture sur ce patron, pour être bien certain qu’il conserve exactement les courbes, les longueurs, les distances de chacune des parties…”

And here we have G.C. Ashlin’s pentures for the west door of Cobh Cathedral dating from 1888-1890.

And here a more recent shot of the pentures:

The gob-smaking things about the pentures in Cobh is that the Cork County Conservation Officer and Cobh Urban District Council think of them simply in terms of “hinges”. They could just as easily be bought down the street in a hardware shop. Hence, both the Cork Conservationb Officer and God help us- the Urban District Council are quite prepared to let anything happen to the Cobh pentures adn firmly believe that they actually possess the professional capacity to oversee work carried out on them !!

And just to prove that G.C. Ashlin was no less careful than Viollet-le-Duc when he designed the pentures for the west door in Cobh Cathedral, here we are, one of the original drawings very kindly sent to Praxiteles today:

On Choir Stalls:

Choir Stalls

Choir stalls — seats in a choir, wholly or partly enclosed on the back and sides — are mentioned from the eleventh century. In the earliest times the subsellia, usually of stone, of the clergy were placed to the right and left of the cathedra of the bishop in the apse of the basilica. After the numbers of the clergy had greatly increased they appear to have stood during choir service, as is evident from the Rule of St. Chrodegang and from the statutes of Aachen of the year 816. Even as late as the eleventh century St. Peter Damien wrote “Contra sedentes in choro”. Those who were weak supported themselves on a T-shaped crutch called reclinatorium, which was sometimes censured, sometimes permitted, as in the second “Ordo Romanus”. Soon, however, the formae or formulae, seats with backs, appeared (plan of St. Gall of the ninth century), as well as the actual stalli, connected seats in which only arms separated the individual seats, and an architectural effect was sought. The seats, which earlier were frequently movable, now became fixed; the sides and backs were made higher; the ornamentation, originally pictorial, soon became architectural and was carved. A few examples of these have been preserved in Germany from the Romanesque period. At Ratzeburg there are side-pieces, each supported by two small columns with base and capital, that are rounded above like a beam and beautifully broken in e middle by curved fluting. There are also small columns on the oldest choir-stall at Kanten; the face of the back is even more boldly curved, and fantastic heads completely in the round project from it. During the Gothic period the architectonic element was at times exaggerated; the mathematical forms of the labyrinths of lines and the scribing are too jejune, and the structure is often too high and uncomfortable. On the other hand the baldachinum over the highest row of seats was often very magnificent. Germany and France possess a large number of stalls that are masterpieces. These stalls are found on both sides of the choir in the churches of monasteries and collegiate foundations. The seats on the Epistle side are called chorus abbatis or praepositi, those on the Gospel side chorus prioris or decani. The last of the ascending rows has generally a back wall crowned with artistic decorations. The back of each preceding row serves the succeeding one as a prayer-desk; the first row has a projection built in front of it for the same purpose. On feast days, for the sake of comfort and ornament, tapestries were hung on the backs of the stalls, cushions laid on the seats, and rugs put under the feet. Ornamental designs or figures carved in the wood decorated both the front and rear faces of the high backs of all the stalls as well as the double arms that were used both when standing and sitting. On the arms as well as in subordinate parts, especially on the misericordia or console — against which, after the seat had been turned up, the cleric could support himself while standing — it was not unusual to carve fantastic figures of animals or grotesque devils. Choir-stalls of stone, which are always colder, occur but rarely (for example, at Kaurim in Bohemia). Among the oldest still existing examples of Gothic choir-stalls in France are those in the Church of Notre-Dame-de-la-Roche; especially rich in their ornamentation are those in the cathedrals at Amiens, Paris, Auch, and others. Among examples in Belgium the Church of St. Gertrude at Louvain shows late Gothic choir-stalls with statuettes and twenty-eight reliefs portraying the life of Christ, of St. Augustine, and of St. Gertrude. The most celebrated choir-stalls in Germany are those in the Cathedral at Ulm. There are eighty-nine seats with gable hood-mouldings and pinnacles, on each seat there are two rows of decorations, on the back and on the side, representing Christ as the anticipation of the heathen and the prediction of the prophets, and in addition there is delineated the founding of the New Covenant. The choir-stalls at Dordrecht, Holland, belong to the style of the Renaissance; they represent on the back the triumph of the Church and of the Holy Sacraments; on the opposite side, the triumphs of Charles V. There are superb creations of the same style in Italy, especially with inlaid work called tarsia, as at Assisi, Siena, Florence, and Venice. Modern times have made but few changes in the practical and artistic form that was fixed in an earlier era.

Written by Gerhard Gietmann. Transcribed by Michael C. Tinkler.

The Catholic Encyclopedia, Volume XIV. Published 1912. New York: Robert Appleton Company. Nihil Obstat, July 1, 1912. Remy Lafort, S.T.D., Censor. Imprimatur. +John Cardinal Farley, Archbishop of New York

Cathedral of St Pierre, Poitiers, begun in 1162 and consecarted in 1379

Johnglas mentioned a set of Choir Stalls in Tuam Cathedral. So far on this thread not much attention has been devoted to a systematic view of Choir Stalls. Praxiteles believes the time has come to address this question.

So, we start with what are believed to be the oldest set of Choir Stalls in France, those of the Chapter of the Cathedral of St. Pierre in Poitiers which mdate from around 1250 and are carved in oak. They were the gift of Jean de Melun, Bishop of Poitiers 1235 -1257.

Here is the North side of the Choir:

The Choir Stalls as viewed from the steps of the High Altar looking west:

Here are some examples of the Misericords:

Here is the Choir as it was in 1919 enclosed by its fabolous iron work grille -which seems to have disappeared

And as seen from the nave ante 1919:

Here is some further detailed information on the acrved spandrels:

http://www.medievalart.org.uk/Poitiers/Poitiers_default.htm

St Michel, Bordeaux

The North portal:

St Michel, Bordeaux

The spire as seen from the Bourse:

St Michel, Bordeaux

The west and south facades:

Some notes on the origin of the Earley Company:

http://archiver.rootsweb.ancestry.com/th/read/IrelandGenWeb/2006-06/1149360714