Praxiteles
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- January 22, 2010 at 11:25 pm in reply to: reorganisation and destruction of irish catholic churches #773535
Praxiteles
ParticipantGross Sankt Marin in Cologne as rebuilt after the war:

As it looked in 1856:

As rebuilt:
January 22, 2010 at 11:20 pm in reply to: reorganisation and destruction of irish catholic churches #773534Praxiteles
Participanthere is a picture of Gross Sankt Martin in Cologne in 1946 in the wake of the terrible bombing of the city:
January 22, 2010 at 11:11 pm in reply to: reorganisation and destruction of irish catholic churches #773533Praxiteles
ParticipantDieter Hartmann’s new ceiling for St Panthaleon in Cologne depicitng the Tree of Jesse illustrating the ancestors of Christ.
January 21, 2010 at 8:04 pm in reply to: reorganisation and destruction of irish catholic churches #773532Praxiteles
Participant@Paul Clerkin wrote:
Bishop blesses cathedral’s new ceiling 150ft above ground
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/newstopics/religion/7036652/Bishop-blesses-cathedrals-new-ceiling-150ft-above-ground.htmlFortunately, there is no such blessing in the Pontificale Romanum !
January 21, 2010 at 5:26 pm in reply to: reorganisation and destruction of irish catholic churches #773530Praxiteles
ParticipantThe cenotaph of General Lamoricière in Nantes Cathedral:
January 21, 2010 at 5:22 pm in reply to: reorganisation and destruction of irish catholic churches #773529Praxiteles
ParticipantAnother desastre that should not be forgotten is the 1972 fire at nantes Cathedral.
“On 28 January 1972, a gigantic fire started on the roof. Firemen managed to bring it under control, but the timber frame was severely damaged and many other damages were inflicted. This event led to what was undoubtedly the most complete interior restoration of a cathedral in France.
The interior as restored:

I do not believe that there was any proposition by the French government to replace Nantes Cathedral with an exercise in modern architecture.
The loss of the original glass -in part destroyed during the war- was however unfortunate.
January 21, 2010 at 5:06 pm in reply to: reorganisation and destruction of irish catholic churches #773528Praxiteles
ParticipantIf you can rebuild St Paul’s as it was, you can rebuild St Mel’s as it was.
January 21, 2010 at 8:05 am in reply to: reorganisation and destruction of irish catholic churches #773524Praxiteles
ParticipantThis appeared on the Catholic Ireland webpage:
St Mel’s windows records will allow for perfect restoration
Wednesday, January 20th, 2010 Restorers of stained glass windows destroyed in the inferno before Christmas at St. Mel’s Cathedral in Longford have said they will be able to do a perfect restoration because of records kept when the windows were repaired thirteen years ago.At a time of great sadness in Longford for what has befallen the cathedral, this news comes as a light in the darkness.
The eighty-year-old windows, some of which were made in the studio of the renowned artist Harry Clarke, (an example of his work is pictured left) were badly damaged when fire gutted the building. Mr Ken Ryan of Abbey Stained Glass Studios said last week that in 1997, his firm had been engaged to take out the windows, restore and re-fit them.
In that process, they made full tracings of each of the windows, including the extremely valuable Harry Clarke Studio windows, which suffered the least damage in the fire. Mr Ryan explained that when his firm takes windows to its workshop studios they lay paper over the stained glass, and rub a black crayon over it to take the imprint.
“We have a full layout of all the lead sections, which hold the pieces of glass together,” he said.
Normally, these are dumped after about ten years, but “by a stroke of good luck,†the rubbings from St. Mel’s are intact, he added. “There are tens of thousands of pieces of glass in these windows (in the cathedral) and we can identify the shape of each piece of glass from the rubbings.â€
Mr Ryan said that, as a back-up, his company has photographs of all the stained glass windows and having surveyed St Mel’s, some of the windows were salvaged, including the two Harry Clarke Studio ones. One of the Clarke windows fell but was caught in the window area and was rescued, he explained.
“Our men are going around at the moment underneath each of these windows to try and find loose pieces of glass that can be used in their reconstruction,†Mr Ryan said
“In any event, if a window has been completely destroyed, because we have the rubbings and the photographs, it’s possible to reconstruct all of the windows as they were before”.
by Fintan Deere
January 20, 2010 at 8:37 am in reply to: reorganisation and destruction of irish catholic churches #773523Praxiteles
ParticipantThe National Catholic Reporter is not unknown for its less than totally objective and unporejudiced positions.
January 19, 2010 at 10:01 pm in reply to: reorganisation and destruction of irish catholic churches #773521Praxiteles
ParticipantSt Mel’s Cathedral, Longford
Stained glass
January 19, 2010 at 9:46 pm in reply to: reorganisation and destruction of irish catholic churches #773520Praxiteles
ParticipantLongford Cathedral
Stained glass.
January 19, 2010 at 9:43 pm in reply to: reorganisation and destruction of irish catholic churches #773519Praxiteles
Participant
St Mel’s cathedral, Longford
The Pietà altar
January 19, 2010 at 9:40 pm in reply to: reorganisation and destruction of irish catholic churches #773518Praxiteles
ParticipantA picture of the Baptistery of St Mel’s Cathedral, Longford
January 19, 2010 at 8:15 am in reply to: reorganisation and destruction of irish catholic churches #773517Praxiteles
Participant@gunter wrote:
We’re back to ‘Tradition and Innovation’
Oh come on now Praxiteles, you don’t think he’s going to say: ‘Yeh, I photocopy plans’ 🙂
Honesty is always the best approach!
January 18, 2010 at 6:42 pm in reply to: reorganisation and destruction of irish catholic churches #773512Praxiteles
ParticipantMore on David Watkin:
He is joint vice chairman of the Georgian Group:
January 18, 2010 at 6:38 pm in reply to: reorganisation and destruction of irish catholic churches #773511Praxiteles
ParticipantBack from Wekepedia on Davd Watkin and some interesting little snippets:
“David John Watkin (born in 1941) MA PhD LittD Hon FRIBA FSA, is a British architectural historian. He is an Emeritus Fellow of Peterhouse at Cambridge University, and Professor Emeritus in the History of Architecture at the Department of Art History at Cambridge University. He has also taught at the Prince of Wales’s Institute of Architecture.[1]
David Watkin is an Honorary Fellow of the Royal Institute of British Architects. He is Vice-Chairman of the Georgian Group, and was a member of the Historic Buildings Council and its successor bodies in English Heritage from 1980-1995.
“Watkin’s main research interest has been classical architecture, particularly from the 18th century to the present day, and has published widely on that topic. He has also published on general topics including A History of Western Architecture (4th ed. 2005) and English Architecture: A Concise History (2nd ed. 2001), as well as more specialised monographs on architects Thomas Hope, Sir John Soane, James Stuart, and C. R. Cockerell.
Watkin first came to wide international attention, however, with his book Morality and Architecture: The Development of a Theme in Architectural History and Theory from the Gothic Revival to the Modern Movement (1977), re-published in expanded form as Morality and Architecture Revisited (2001). The basic premise of his argument is that the language with which modernist architecture is described and defended is rooted in the false notion of the Zeitgeist or “the spirit of the ageâ€, as put forward by German Idealist philosopher Friedrich Hegel, so that any opposition to modernist architecture – and here he has in mind the revival of classical and traditional architecture, which he has championed in his writings – are condemned as “old-fashionedâ€, irrelevant, anti-social, and even immoral.
In terms of Zeitgeist architecture, he traces its moralistic attitude back to architects Pugin, Viollet-le-Duc and Le Corbusier, among others – including their supporters within history such as Nikolaus Pevsner, who claimed that their chosen style had to be truthful and rational, reflecting society’s needs. Watkin also sees the pedigree of a distorting modernist architectural history emerging from Hegel, and that modern art and architectural history began in the nineteenth century as a by-product of history and the philosophy of culture in Germany and the rapid growth of Marxist sociology.
Among the ‘contemporary’ architects Watkin has championed are John Simpson and Quinlan Terry, as well as theorist Leon Krier. In his book on Terry, Radical Classicism: The Architecture of Quinlan Terry (2006) Watkin is forthright: “The modernism with which Quinlan Terry has had to battle is, like the Taliban, a puritanical religion.â€
And he certainly has written quite a bit:
David Watkin, The Roman Forum, Profile Books, London, 2009.
David Watkin, Carl Laubin: The Poetry of Art And Architecture, Philip Wilson Publishers, London, 2007.
David Watkin, Radical Classicism: The Architecture of Quinlan Terry. Rizzoli, New York, 2006.
Christopher Hartop, Diana Scarisbrick, Charles Truman, David Watkin, and Matthew Winterbottom, Royal Goldsmiths: The Art of Rundell & Bridge. John Adamson, London, 2006.
David Watkin, A History of Western Architecture. Watson-Guptill Publications, New York, 2005.
David Watkin, The Architect King: George III and the Culture of the Enlightenment. Royal Collection, London. 2004.
David Watkin and Robin Middleton, Architecture of the Nineteenth Century. Phaidon Inc Ltd, London, 2003.
David Watkin, Morality and Architecture Revisited, University of Chicago Press, Chicago, 2001.
David Watkin, English Architecture: A Concise History, WW Norton and Co Inc, New York, 2001.
David Watkin (Ed). Sir John Soane: The Royal Academy Lectures, Cambridge University Press, Cambridge, 2000.
David Watkin (Ed), Sir John Soane: Enlightenment Thought and the Royal Academy Lectures (Cambridge Studies in the History of Architecture) Cambridge University Press, 1996.
David Watkin, The Royal Interiors of Regency England. Rizzoli, New York, 1985.
David Watkin, Morality and Architecture: The Development of a Theme in Architectural History and Theory from the Gothic Revival to the Modern Movement. University of Chicago Press, Chicago, (1984/original 1977).
David Watkin, The English Vision. John Murray, London, 1982.
David Watkin, Athenian Stuart: Pioneer of the Greek Revival. Harper Collins, New York, 1982.
David Watkin, The Rise of Architectural History, Eastview Editions, London, Reprint edition, 1980.As a point of view, I think what he has to say deserves a hearing.
Stroik does not come from this school but from that of Thomas Gordon Smith. I shall ask him if he photocopies plans -as has been suggested.
January 18, 2010 at 6:23 pm in reply to: reorganisation and destruction of irish catholic churches #773509Praxiteles
Participant@gunter wrote:
That’s the stock Watkin argument . . . . . and it just doesn’t stand up.
You’ve posted hundreds of pictures that show how renaissance architecture retreived classicism slowly and painstakingly and always infused it with invention and creativity.
Yes the the whole renaisance movement aspired to re-learn what the ansients could teach and there was an aspiration to re-create the perceived purity of classical architecture, but every step taken was demonstably of it’s own time. Bramente built on Michelozzo, who built on Alberti who built on Brunelleschi and so on. The story is one of forward progression guided by an ever closer study of the proportions and details of classical remains, it’s the story of rediscovery, it’s not the story of reproduction.
You simply cannot equate the enormous intellectual investment of the renaissance in redescovering the classical language of architecture, to some guy photocopying a set of church plans in South Bend, Indiana.
Gunter
I was not actually quoting Watkin. It was a thought that struck myself. Put another way, is it impossible to retrieve the principles of classical architecture in contemporary circumstances and infuse them with creativity and invention? Or, are we posit that for some reason we are chained exclusively to modernism?
From the point of view of historiography, I am not so sure that I would would subscribe to the kind of historical “progressivism” with which you seem view the renaissance.
January 18, 2010 at 1:37 pm in reply to: reorganisation and destruction of irish catholic churches #773506Praxiteles
ParticipantOn the question of historicism, I wonder if the architects of the renaissance can be regarded as producing pastiches of anique Rome?
January 18, 2010 at 1:35 pm in reply to: reorganisation and destruction of irish catholic churches #773505Praxiteles
Participant@gunter wrote:
We need to hear more from grumpyjohn
Yes, perhaps he might like to upload the other photographs of the house on Lough Crew which might broaden the picture a bit.
January 18, 2010 at 8:14 am in reply to: reorganisation and destruction of irish catholic churches #773503Praxiteles
Participant@apelles wrote:
by Michael Byrne
The Church of the Assumption of our Blessed Lady,
Tullamore, 1906-2006Father Hugh Behan, the parish priest in the 1890s, had mooted the idea of a new church in 1898 as the old church had fallen into serious disrepair.
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