Praxiteles
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- April 27, 2010 at 8:30 pm in reply to: reorganisation and destruction of irish catholic churches #773875
Praxiteles
ParticipantYork Minster
The East Window early 15th. century by John Thornton:


More on the East window at York:
April 27, 2010 at 12:06 am in reply to: reorganisation and destruction of irish catholic churches #773872Praxiteles
ParticipantSome mor eexamples of bosses from York Minster showing the Annunciation, the Adoration of the Magi, the Asumption and the Coronation of Our Lady:
April 26, 2010 at 9:38 pm in reply to: reorganisation and destruction of irish catholic churches #773871Praxiteles
ParticipantPlans for the new chapel to be build at teh Oxford Oratory which, eventually, will be dedicate to John Henry Cardinal Newman

The altar
Praxiteles believes that the semicircular steps are quite incongruous and even more so by the upper step being rectangular! A lesson is needed here.
April 26, 2010 at 6:29 pm in reply to: reorganisation and destruction of irish catholic churches #773869Praxiteles
ParticipantSome more examples of drawings from Thomas Halfpenny’s Gothic Ornament in York Minster, published in 1795

April 23, 2010 at 8:51 pm in reply to: reorganisation and destruction of irish catholic churches #773867Praxiteles
ParticipantA drawing from Thomas Halfpenny’s Ornament of York Minster published in 1795.
April 22, 2010 at 9:16 pm in reply to: reorganisation and destruction of irish catholic churches #773866Praxiteles
ParticipantAn important exhibition of ecclesiastical items is currently underway in Turin to coincide with the exposition of the Holy Shroud.
Details are available here: http://www.lavenaria.it/mostre/ita/mostre/archivio/2010/gesu.shtml
Some examples may seen here:


April 21, 2010 at 6:16 pm in reply to: reorganisation and destruction of irish catholic churches #773865Praxiteles
ParticipantThe chapel of Wardour Castle
The altar of the chapel was designed by Giacomo Quarenghi and many of the fittings by Valadier

Chasuble made for the marriage of Henry VIII and Catherine of Aragon
Details of the upcoming exhibition:
http://www.wardourchapelexhibition.co.uk/
On Wardour:
April 19, 2010 at 11:40 pm in reply to: reorganisation and destruction of irish catholic churches #773864Praxiteles
ParticipantCodex sang. 51 foglio 266
To return to the Sankt Galln Codex51 and its Crucifixion in Codex 51 foglio 266.
The four corners of the borders are marked by a square containing a stylized Coss potent which is drawn in the Greek manner with equal arms. Behind the Cross are four flights of steps. This refers to the Cross potent punch used on the reverse of coins struck in the reign of teh Byzantine emperor Tiberius II (578-582) and subsequently by the Heraclius (610-641) and his successors up to Leo III (717-741) with whom began the iconoclast crisis.
The facsimile version may be view here:
http://www.e-codices.unifr.ch/en/csg/0051/266/small
A solidus struck in 647/8 fìdepicting Constans II d teh Cross potent on the reverse:
April 19, 2010 at 11:24 pm in reply to: reorganisation and destruction of irish catholic churches #773863Praxiteles
ParticipantThe Crucifixion on foglio 67 r of the Chudlev Psalter now in Moscow, dating from the period 850-875 which clearly reflects the iconoclast crisi by the association of Stephaton with those who took whitewash brushes to sacred images.
However, for our purposes, we note three central figures: Christ Crucified, Longinus, and Stephaton. Again, here, Christ is crucified with 4 nails.
April 19, 2010 at 10:36 pm in reply to: reorganisation and destruction of irish catholic churches #773862Praxiteles
ParticipantTo contextualize Sang. Codex 51, 266
Here we have the Crucifixion from the Syriac Rabula Gospel from about 550 which is taken to be the earliest depiction of the Crucifixion in a manuscript.

The central figures are, again, the Crucified Christ, Longinus, and Stephaton. the sun and moon are represented above the arms of the Cross. As in the Sang. 51, f. 266 image, Christ is crucified by 4 nails. The figure of Christ is not Roman.
April 19, 2010 at 10:25 pm in reply to: reorganisation and destruction of irish catholic churches #773861Praxiteles
ParticipantThe Codex sang. 51, foglio 266
The Crucifixion scene here depcited shows five figures: Christ Crucified on the Cross; St. Longinus with the Lance, Stephaton with the reed on which is the sponge offerng vinaigre to Christ, and two figures above the arms of the Cross.
The figure of Christ is the most interesting and the most allusive: we have already commented on the origin of the beardless youthful figure deriving from late Roman antiquity; the long curls of hair similarly deriving from late Roman antiquity and especiallythe cult of Appollo Capitoline. However, its is the swaddling bands that are immediatly evident and the the dominant feature of this Crucifixion. Here “Christ’s body is swaddled in a deceptiovely unanalizable weave of ribbons” (Harbison, p.3). Whatever the stylistic concerns of the artist might have been, his use of swaddling bands in this image is a direct allusion to the text of St. Luke’s with its reference to the Incarnation with the newborn child being wrapped in swaddling bands and being laid in a manger. Clearly, this image is a meditation of the Incarnation and on its fulfillment in the Redemption of the Cross.
More pertinently, the Swaddling bands hold together an image of Christ which is articulated in two colours. The upper part is painted in red while the lower part (the legs) are painted in blue. The swaddling bands, evidently, hold together the two natures (divine and human) in the one person of Christ – a reassertion of the Christological doctrine of the Council of Chalcedon held in November 451.
The coloured image of the manuscript can be seen at this link:
http://www.e-codices.unifr.ch/en/csg/0051/266/small
The Council of Chalcedon repudiated the Arian idea that Jesus had only one nature, and stated that Christ has two natures, human and divine, in one person. The Chalcedonian Creed describes the “full humanity and full divinity” of Jesus, the second person of the Holy Trinity [the “true God and true man” phrase recited every Sunday in the Creed].
So, we can assume with some security that the artist who painted this image was attempting to convey a theological idea about the Incarnation of Christ which had implications both for the assertion of the orthodox teaching of the Council of Chalcedon and for the repudiation of Arianism. It would be useful were some scholar with spare time (perhaps in the Cloyne HACK) to investigate possible Arian influences or a desire to counter Arianism in the circles which produced this manuscript.
It is also to be noted that the upper and lower parts of the verticle shaft of the Cross are painted in different colours.
April 19, 2010 at 7:50 pm in reply to: reorganisation and destruction of irish catholic churches #773860Praxiteles
ParticipantOver the Easter season, Praxiteles could not help but notice the many curiosties and eccentricities currently passed off in the fashionable “liturgical” salons as “depictions of the Crucifixion”. On more than one occasion, it was explained to Praxiteles that these latest compositions representa a re-connection with the tradition of Irish representations of the Crucifixion which, in turn, we are expected to believe derives from a genuinely home made “spirituality” found no where else on the face of the globe – and, presumably, a qualifier for the EEC’s equivilant of a protected DOC “spiritual” product. While this will pass off easily with the gullibe and with those commercially interested in the Irish spirituality industry, a more critical examination of the evidence is required so that we can see what we are dealing with. Thus, Praxiteles has been busy assembling some representation of the Crucifixion which are undoubtedly the product of early Irish Christianity and the results are really quite striking both in terms of images of the Crucifixion and the wide range of sources inspiring those images which take us well beyond the shores of the island. For just as the inspiration for much of Cormac chapel is to be found in Germany or in England, so too the inspiration for many of the sources of our earliest representations of the Crucifixion derive from Europe and Byzantium.
The first example we produce is taken fom the St. Gallen, Stiftsbibliothek, Codex Sangallensis 51 which is a Parchment of 268 pp. measuring 29.5 x 22.5 cm and produced in Ireland about 750. It is regarded as one of the earliest extant Irish depictions of the Crucifixion. The Crucifixion image is to be found on foglio 266 of Codex 51.
It is an Evangeliarium containing the texts of the Gospels Matthew, Mark, Luke and John divided into the abstracts which would have been used for Mass on particular dyas.. It is illustrated illustrated with 12 decorated pages. It was written in insular Semiuncial and illuminated by Irish monks in Ireland around the mid 8th century.
The link to the digitilized image can be found here:
http://www.e-codices.unifr.ch/en/csg/0051/266/small
It is interesting to note that the text of the Gospel contained in the Codex Sang. 51 is a mixed text which is drawn from the Vetus Itala and from the Vulgate. The former, a translation of the Greek Septuaginta, is the oldest Latin version to come down to us and is dated to around 157 AD, the latter is St. Jerome’s revision of the text according to the Alexandrine Septuaginta which he was commissioned to do by Pope St Damasus and which dates from circa 383-388. Fromthis fact, we can make the inference, with some security, that the monks who transcribed the text had access both to the Vetus Itala and to the Vulgate of St. Jerome.
April 18, 2010 at 8:03 pm in reply to: reorganisation and destruction of irish catholic churches #773859Praxiteles
ParticipantSt. Peter’s Chruch, Drogheda, Co. Louth
Here we have a picture of old St. Peter’s which was replaced by the present church.
Old St. Peter’s was built in 1793 to designs drawn by Francis Johnson.
April 16, 2010 at 10:33 pm in reply to: reorganisation and destruction of irish catholic churches #773858Praxiteles
ParticipantSt. Peter’s, Drogheda, Co. Louth
Here we have a recent view of the High Altar (Sharpe, Dublin 1896 who also did Cobh High Altar 1892) with the restored stencil and art work on the apse wall. Note the restored painted curtain which was originally painted by Gustavus Linthout and Sons of Bruges. As the painters returned to Belgium due to the outbreak of the Great War, part of the curtain was never completed. The stencil cutain was restored by Mr. Patrick Gordon.
April 15, 2010 at 11:41 pm in reply to: reorganisation and destruction of irish catholic churches #773857Praxiteles
ParticipantSt Peter’s, Drogheda, Co. Louth
Here we have a rare photograph of an Irish church laid out for the ceremonies of solemn consecration with the “X” shaped cross traced on the floor with heaps of ashes and the card bearing the charcaters of the Greek and Latin alphabets which will be traced on the ashes. This photograph shows St. Peter’s in Drogheda on the morning of 29 June 1914:
April 15, 2010 at 11:11 pm in reply to: reorganisation and destruction of irish catholic churches #773856Praxiteles
ParticipantAppelles!
Here we are: a translation of the Mosebach interview which is taken from the Society of St Hugh of Cluny blog:
Part I:
Friday, April 9, 2010
The Reform of the Liturgy and the Catholic Church (Part I)
A Conversation with Martin Mosebach
The discussion was led by Alexander Goerlach.
From The EuropeanThe European: Personally, how do you assess the five years in which Benedict XVI has been in Office?
Mosebach: Benedict XVI has set for himself the most difficult mission. He wants to heal the evil consequences of the Church’s Revolution of 68 in a non-revolutionary manner. This pope is precisely not a papal dictator. He relies on the strength of the better argument and hopes that the nature of the Church will overcome that which is inappropriate to her if certain minimal assistance is provided. This plan is so subtle that it can be neither presented in official explanations nor understood by an almost unimaginably coarsened press. It is a plan that will show its effects only in the future – probably only with clarity after the death of the Pope. But already now we can recognize the courage with which the pope establishes reconciliation beyond the narrow limits of the canon law (through the integration of the Patriotic church in China; in relation to Russian and Greek Orthodoxy) or by his novel fusion of traditional and enlightened biblical theology that leads us out of the dead end of rationalistic bible criticism.
The European: Don’t we also have to prepare for cases of abuse in Catholic institutions in other countries? In your view how should Pope Benedict react to them?
Mosebach: The Church of course always has to be prepared for the fact that individual educators will sexually abuse students in her schools and boarding schools. That’s the nature of things. Wherever children are instructed, personalities with pedophile inclinations are always found. We have to ask ourselves, however, why just in the years immediately following the Second Vatican council the sexual crimes of priests occurred so frequently. There is no way of avoiding the bitter realization: the experiment of “aggiornamentoâ€, the assimilation of the Church to the secularized world, has failed in a terrible way. After the Second Vatican Council, most priests dropped their clerical garb, ceased celebrating the mass daily and did not pray the breviary daily any more. The post-conciliar theology did everything in its power to make people forget the traditional image of the priest. All the institutions were called into question which had given the priest aid in his difficult and solitary life. Should we be astonished if many priests in these years could no longer view themselves as priests in the traditional manner? The clerical discipline that was deliberately eliminated had been largely formulated by the Council of Trent. At that time the mission was likewise to resist the corruption of the clergy and to reawaken the consciousness of the sanctity of the priesthood. It is nice that the leaders of the church ask the victims of abuse for forgiveness but it will be still more important if they tighten the reins of discipline in the sense of the Council of Trent and return to a priesthood of the Catholic Tradition.
The European: How will the Catholic Church look which Benedict will eventually leave behind him?
Mosebach: One would wish that this Pope might perceive himself the first manifestations of a healing of the Church. But this Pope is so modest and lacking in vanity that he hardly would view any such glimmerings as the result of his own actions. I believe that he wants to spare his successor thankless yet necessary labors by assuming them himself. Hopefully this successor will utilize the great opportunity that Benedict has created for him.
The European: The “Reform of the Liturgy†has fundamentally changed the Catholic Church – in what way?
Mosebach: The interventions of Paul VI in a liturgy over 1500 years old are called only “reform of the liturgy.†In reality it was a revolution that was not authorized by the instruction of the Second Vatican Council, to “gently†review the liturgical books. The “liturgical reform†centered upon man a celebration that had been orientated for the last two thousand years to the adoration of God. It undermined the priesthood and largely obscured the doctrine of the Church on the sacraments.
The European: In the late sixties there were many upheavals: the Cultural Revolution in China, the Prague Spring in Czechoslovakia, the student riots here at home, the Vietnam War – and the Second Vatican Council. Can we name all these upheavals in the same breath?
Mosebach: 1968 is, in my opinion, a phenomenon that is still not sufficiently understood. Here in Germany we like to occupy ourselves in this context with happy memories of communes and battles over the right interpretation of Marx. In reality, 1968 is an “axial year†in history with anti-traditionalist movements in the entire world that are only in appearance fully separate from each other. I am convinced that, when sufficient distance exists, the Chinese Cultural Revolution and the Roman Liturgical Reform will be understood to be closely connected.
The European: Pope Benedict XVI participated in this upheaval as a theologian of the Council. How do you experience today his commitment to revive individual liturgical elements of the pre-conciliar Church?
Mosebach: Benedict XVI views as one of his main tasks making the essence of the Church more clearly visible – for Catholics and then also for non-Catholics. The Pope knows that the Church is indissolubly bound to her Tradition. Church and revolution are irreconcilable contradictions. He attempts to intervene where the image of the Church has been distorted through a radical break with the past. Now the Church, like its Founder, has exactly two natures: historical and timeless. She cannot forget from where she came and cannot forget where she is going. Especially the Church in the West has problems with this. She has neither any sense for her historical organic evolution nor for her life in eternity.
(part II follows)
Translation by kind permission of Martin Mosebach
Part II:
Sunday, April 11, 2010
The Reform of the Liturgy and the Catholic Church (Part II)
A conversation with Martin MosebachFrom The European
The conversation was led by Alexander Goerlich
The European: The reintroduction of the old rite allowed again the petition for the conversion of the Jews, as it was in use prior to the Council. Was that the right step?
Mosebach: When the organic liturgy was permitted again (which had been suppressed, very often violently, under Paul VI) so also was the petition for the conversion of the Jews once again admitted into the official liturgical books of the Church. It dates from early Christianity and forms part of the Good Friday petitions. This early Christian petition, based on wording of the Apostle Paul, contains the wording that God might liberate the Jews from “their blindness†and “lift the veil from their hearts.†These expressions appeared to the Pope to permit the misunderstanding of contempt for the Jews because of recent history. Therefore he intervened when the traditional rite was authorized again and ordered a new formulation in the old rite. It also asks God to lead the Jews to Jesus Christ, but excludes the interpretation of contempt for them. The Pope has been condemned because he permits praying for the conversion of the Jews to Jesus Christ at all. But can the Church of the Jews Peter and Paul be expected to renounce such an intention?
The European: How do you assess the relationship of the Pope to the Jews and Israel?
Mosebach: Benedict XVI is probably the first pope since Peter to understand Christianity so closely from out of Judaism. His book on Jesus reveals in many passages the attempt to read the New Testament with the eyes of the Old Testament. The relationship of the Pope to Jewry is not superficial, political or a mere liking derived from a trendy philosemitism but is theological and rooted in faith. One has at times the impression that if Benedict were not a Christian he would be a Jew. To accuse this Pope of anti-Semitism betrays an ignorance and incompetence that should exclude one from public discourse.
The European: The controversy surrounding the FSSPX has yielded no visible success for the Vatican up till now. In your view what does this group bring to the Catholic Church other than its love for the old liturgy?
Mosebach: Other than the old liturgy? What is there more important for the Church than the liturgy? The liturgy is the body of the Church. It is faith made visible. If the liturgy falls ill, so does the entire Church. That is not a merely a hypothesis but a description of the current situation. One can’t present it drastically enough: the crisis of the Church has made possible that her greatest treasure, her Arcanum, was swept out of the center to the periphery. The FSSPX and especially its founder, Archbishop Lefebvre, are due the historical glory to have preserved for decades and kept alive this most important gift. Therefore the Church owes the FSSPX above all gratitude. Part of this gratitude is to work to lead the FSSPX out of all kinds of confusion and radicalization.
The European: The FSSPX don’t appear to be heading towards Rome.
Mosebach: In the discussions with the FSSPX what is important is the patient labor of persuasion, as is appropriate in spiritual questions. The discussions appear to be proceeding in a very good atmosphere. If one day it is successful in integrating once again the FSSPX in the full unity of the Church, the papacy of Benedict XVI would have obtained a success whose importance exceeds by far the number of FSSPX members.
The European: Christianity is one of the foundations of Europe. In the future will it still be relevant for the continent?
Mosebach: Christianity is the foundation of Europe – I don’t see any other. All intellectual movements of modern times, even when they opposed Christianity, owe their origins to it. We have also received ancient philosophy and art from the arms of Christianity. If European society should turn away totally from Christianity, it would mean nothing less than it would deny its very self. What one doesn’t know or want to know nevertheless exists. Repression cannot be the basis for a hopeful future.
The European: You were in Turkey for a while. Would Turkey enrich the European Union as a full member or is it difficult to integrate a land dominated by Islam into the Western community of values?
Mosebach: You surely understand that I cannot give you a political or legal answer. I can only see that Turkey – especially the anti-Islamic, modernizing Turkey – has had enormous difficulties with its Christian European minorities. Until the 1950’s there was still a Greek-dominated Constantinople. But living together with Christians was intolerable for the modern Turks so they put an end to it. Now they seem to find desirable drawing near to Europe because of economic concerns without, however, rethinking in their internal politics the battle against Christians. I believe that we are very far removed from what you call “integration into the Western community of values.â€
Translated by Stuart Chessman with kind permission of Martin Mosebach
April 15, 2010 at 11:05 pm in reply to: reorganisation and destruction of irish catholic churches #773855Praxiteles
ParticipantSt. Colman’s Cathedral, Cobh, Co. Cork.
Here we have a photograph of the bells cast by Taylor’s of Loughborough for Cobh Cathedral as they appeared before shipping to Ireland:
April 15, 2010 at 10:48 pm in reply to: reorganisation and destruction of irish catholic churches #773854Praxiteles
ParticipantI shall see if I can find a translation.
the Piusbruderschaft is the Society of St. Pius X.
April 15, 2010 at 4:01 pm in reply to: reorganisation and destruction of irish catholic churches #773852Praxiteles
ParticipantAnd here we have a recent interview given to The European by the German writer Martin Mosebach which has several pertinent remarks about the need for liturgical renewal…let the Cloyne HACK please take note:

The European: Wie bewerten Sie persönlich die fünf Jahre, die Papst Benedikt XVI. im Amt ist?
Mosebach: Benedikt XVI. hat sich die schwerstmögliche Aufgabe gestellt: Er will die schlimmen Folgen der innerkirchlichen 68er-Revolution auf nichtrevolutionäre Weise heilen. Dieser Papst ist eben kein päpstlicher Diktator, er setzt auf die Kraft des besseren Arguments und er hofft, dass die Natur der Kirche das ihr nicht Gemäße von selbst überwinden wird, wenn ihr dazu gewisse kleine Hilfestellungen gegeben werden. Dieses Programm ist so subtil, dass es weder in offiziellen Erklärungen dargestellt werden noch auch in einer schier unvorstellbar vergröberten publizistischen Öffentlichkeit verstanden werden könnte. Es ist ein Programm, das seine Wirkung erst in der Zukunft, wahrscheinlich erst deutlich nach dem Ableben des Papstes, zeigen wird. Aber schon jetzt ist der Mut des Papstes erkennbar, mit dem er Versöhnung über die engen Grenzen des Kirchenrechtes hinaus stiftet – in China durch die Integration der Patriotischen Kirche und gegenüber der russischen und griechischen Orthodoxie – und durch seine neuartige Verschmelzung traditioneller und aufgeklärter Bibeltheologie, die aus den Sackgassen rationalistischer Bibelkritik herausführt.The European: müssen wir uns nicht auch auf Missbrauchsfälle in katholischen Einrichtungen anderen Ländern einstellen und wie sollte Ihrer Meinung nach Papst Benedikt dann darauf reagieren?
Mosebach: Selbstverständlich muß die Kirche immer damit rechnen, daß in ihren Schulen und Internaten einzelne Erzieher sich an den Schülern vergreifen, das liegt in der Natur der Sache. Wo Kinder unterrichtet werden, finden sich stets auch Persönlichkeiten mit pädophilen Neigungen ein. Wir müssen uns aber fragen, wieso es in katholischen Internaten gerade in den unmittelbar auf das Zweite Vatikanische Konzil folgenden Jahren gehäuft zu Sexualstraftaten von Priestern gekommen ist. Es führt kein Weg an der bitteren Erkenntnis vorbei: das Experiment des “Aggiornamentoâ€, der Angleichung der Kirche an die säkularisierte Welt, ist auf furchtbare Weise gescheitert. Nach dem Zweiten Vatikanischen Konzil legten die meisten Priester die Priesterkleidung ab, sie hörten auf, täglich die Heilige Messe zu feiern und sie beteten nicht mehr täglich das Brevier. Die nachkonziliäre Theologie tat alles, um das überlieferte Priesterbild vergessen zu lassen. Alle Institutionen, die einem Priester auf seinem schwierigen und einsamen Lebensweg Hilfe geleistet hatten, wurden in Frage gestellt. Was Wunder, wenn viele Priester in diesen Jahren sich nicht mehr in überlieferter Weise als Priester empfinden konnten. Die priesterliche Disziplin, die gezielt verdrängt worden ist, wurde sehr weitgehend im Konzil von Trient formuliert. Auch damals war es darum gegangen, einer Verkommenheit des Klerus zu wehren und das Bewußtsein von der Heiligkeit des Priesteramtes neu zu wecken. Es ist schön, wenn jetzt die Amtsträger der Kirche die Opfer der Missetaten um Vergebung bitten, aber noch wichtiger wird es sein, die Zügel der Disziplin im Sinn des Konzils von Trient wieder anzuziehen und zu einem Priestertum der katholischen Tradition zurückzukehren.The European: Wie sollte die katholische Kirche aussehen, die Papst Benedikt einmal hinterlassen wird?
Mosebach: Es wäre diesem Papst zu wünschen, dass er die ersten Spuren einer Gesundung der Kirche noch selbst bemerken dürfte. Aber dieser Papst ist so uneitel und bescheiden, dass er solche Spuren wahrscheinlich gar nicht als Ergebnis seines Wirkens ansehen würde. Ich glaube, dass er seinem Nachfolger undankbare, aber notwendige Arbeiten ersparen will, indem er selbst sie übernimmt – hoffentlich nutzt dieser Nachfolger die große Chance, die Benedikt ihm geschaffen haben wird.“Das Jahr 1968 ist ein noch überhaupt nicht genügend erkanntes Phänomenâ€
The European: Die Liturgiereform hat die katholische Kirche grundlegend verändert – wieso?
Mosebach: “Liturgiereform†werden die Eingriffe Papst Pauls VI. in die über 1500 Jahre lang überlieferte römisch-katholische Liturgie nur genannt – in Wirklichkeit handelte es sich hier um eine Revolution, die vom Auftrag des Zweiten Vatikanischen Konzils, die liturgischen Bücher “behutsam†durchzusehen, nicht gedeckt ist. Sie hat die auf die Anbetung Gottes ausgerichtete Feier der letzten zwei Jahrtausende auf den Menschen zentriert, sie hat das Priesteramt ausgehöhlt und die Lehre der Kirche von den Sakramenten sehr weitgehend verdunkelt.The European: In den späten 60er-Jahren gab es auf der Welt viele Umbrüche: die Kulturrevolution in China, der Prager Frühling in der Tschechoslowakei, die Studentenunruhen bei uns, der Vietnamkrieg – und das Zweite Vatikanische Konzil. Kann man diese Umbrüche in einer Reihe nennen?
Mosebach: Das Jahr 1968 ist ein meines Erachtens noch überhaupt nicht genügend erkanntes Phänomen. Hier in Deutschland beschäftigt man sich in diesem Zusammenhang gern mit beseligenden Erinnerungen an Wohngemeinschaften und den Streit über die richtige Marx-Lektüre. In Wahrheit ist 1968 ein Achsenjahr der Geschichte mit voneinander scheinbar vollkommen unabhängigen Anti-Traditionsbewegungen in der ganzen Welt. Ich bin aber davon überzeugt, dass man eines Tages, wenn erst genügend Abstand da ist, die chinesische Kulturrevolution und die römische Liturgiereform in einem engen Zusammenhang begreifen wird.The European: Papst Benedikt XVI. war als Konzilstheologe an diesem Aufbruch des Konzils beteiligt. Wie erleben Sie sein Engagement heute, einzelne liturgische Elemente der vorkonziliaren Kirche wiederzubeleben?
Mosebach: Benedikt XVI. sieht eine seiner Hauptaufgaben darin, das Wesen der Kirche wieder deutlicher sichtbar zu machen – den Katholiken, und dann auch den Nicht-Katholiken. Der Papst weiß, dass die Kirche unauflösbar an ihre Tradition gebunden ist. Kirche und Revolution sind unversöhnliche Gegensätze. Er versucht, dort einzugreifen, wo das Erscheinungsbild der Kirche durch einen radikalen Bruch mit der Vergangenheit verzerrt wird. Die Kirche hat eben, wie ihr Stifter, zwei Naturen: eine historische und eine überzeitliche. Sie darf nicht vergessen, woher sie kommt, und sie darf nicht vergessen, wohin sie geht. Damit tut sich speziell die Kirche im Westen gegenwärtig schwer: Sie hat weder einen Sinn für ihre historische Gewachsenheit noch für ihr Leben in der Ewigkeit.“Die Beziehung des Papstes zum Judentum ist keine oberflächliche, politischeâ€
The European: Die Bitte für die Bekehrung der Juden, wie sie bis zum Konzil im Gebrauch war, wurde durch die Wiederzulassung des alten Ritus wieder erlaubt. Ist das ein richtiger Schritt?
Mosebach: Mit der Wiederzulassung der unter Paul dem VI. häufig genug gewaltsam verdrängten, gewachsenen Liturgie gelangte auch die aus dem Frühchristentum stammende Bitte um die Bekehrung der Juden, die ihren Platz in den Karfreitagsfürbitten hat, zurück in die offiziellen Bücher der Kirche. Diese frühchristliche, auf einer Formulierung des Apostels Paulus basierende Bitte, enthielt die Wendung, Gott möge die Juden von “ihrer Verblendung†befreien und “den Schleier von ihren Herzen nehmen.†Da diese Formulierungen dem Papst aufgrund der jüngsten Geschichte das Missverständnis einer Geringschätzung der Juden durch die Kirche erlaubten, hat er bei seiner Wiedereinsetzung des überlieferten Ritus hier eingegriffen und eine neue Formulierung innerhalb des Alten Ritus angeordnet, die gleichfalls Gott darum bittet, die Juden zu Jesus Christus zu führen, aber die Deutung der Geringschätzung ausschließt. Man hat dem Papst vorgeworfen, dass er überhaupt für die Bekehrung der Juden zu Jesus Christus beten lassen will – aber kann man der Kirche der Juden Petrus und Paulus ernsthaft zumuten, auf eine solche Gebetsintention zu verzichten?The European: Wie bewerten Sie das Verhältnis des Papstes zu den Juden, zu Israel?
Mosebach: Benedikt XVI. ist vielleicht seit Petrus der erste Papst, der das Christentum derart eng aus dem Judentum heraus begreift. Sein Jesus-Buch verrät über weite Strecken den Versuch, das Neue Testament mit den Augen des Alten Testamentes zu lesen. Die Beziehung des Papstes zum Judentum ist keine oberflächliche, politische, kein bloßes Sympathisieren aus einem modischen Philosemitismus heraus, sondern ist tief theologisch, im Glauben verwurzelt. Man durfte gelegentlich gar den Eindruck haben: Wenn Benedikt nicht Christ wäre, wäre er Jude. Diesem Papst Antisemitismus nachzusagen verrät eine Unkenntnis und Inkompetenz, die vom öffentlichen Diskurs ausschließen müsste.The European: Die Kontroverse um die Pius-Brüder hat dem Vatikan bislang keinen sichtbaren Erfolg gebracht. Was bringt diese Gruppe Ihrer Meinung nach der katholischen Kirche außer ihrer Liebe für die alte Liturgie?
Mosebach: Außer der alten Liturgie? Was gibt es Wichtigeres als die Liturgie für die Kirche? Die Liturgie ist der Körper der Kirche, die Liturgie ist der sichtbar gemachte Glaube. Wenn die Liturgie erkrankt, erkrankt die ganze Kirche – das ist keine bloße These, sondern eine Beschreibung der gegenwärtigen Situation. Man kann es nicht krass genug darstellen: Die Krise der Kirche hat es möglich gemacht, dass ihr größter Schatz, ihr Arkanum, aus ihrem Zentrum an die Peripherie gespült wurde. Der Piusbruderschaft, vor allem ihrem Gründer, Erzbischof Lefebvre, gebührt der historische Ruhm, dieses wichtigste Gut über die Jahrzehnte bewahrt und am Leben erhalten zu haben. Deshalb schuldet die Kirche der Piusbruderschaft zuerst einmal Dankbarkeit, und zu dieser Dankbarkeit gehört auch, dass sie sich bemüht, sie aus mancherlei Verwirrungen und Radikalisierungen wieder herauszuführen.“Das Christentum ist der Grundpfeiler Europas, ich sehe keinen anderenâ€
The European: Die Pius-Brüder scheinen nicht wirklich auf Rom zuzugehen.
Mosebach: Bei den Gesprächen mit der Piusbruderschaft geht es um eine geduldige Überzeugungsarbeit, wie sie in geistlichen Fragen angemessen ist. Die Gespräche scheinen in sehr guter Atmosphäre vor sich zu gehen. Wenn es eines Tages gelingt, die Piusbruderschaft wieder in die volle Einheit der Kirche zu integrieren, wäre dem Pontifikat Benedikt des XVI. ein Erfolg beschieden, der in seiner Bedeutung weit über die Zahl der Piusbrüder hinausginge.The European: Das Christentum gehört zu den Grundpfeilern Europas. Wird es in Zukunft noch relevant für den Kontinent sein?
Mosebach: Das Christentum ist der Grundpfeiler Europas, ich sehe keinen anderen. Alle geistigen Strömungen der Neuzeit, auch dann, wenn sie das Christentum bekämpfen, verdanken ihren Ursprung dem Christentum, und auch die antike Philosophie und Kunst haben wir aus den Händen des Christentums empfangen. Sollte die europäische Gesellschaft sich im Ganzen vom Christentum abwenden wollen, dann hieße das nichts anderes, als dass sie sich selbst verleugnete. Was man nicht weiß oder nicht wissen will, ist aber deswegen dennoch da. Verdrängung kann kein Fundament für eine hoffnungsvolle Zukunft sein.The European: Sie waren einige Zeit in der Türkei – würde die Türkei als Vollmitglied die EU bereichern oder ist es schwierig, ein islamisch geprägtes Land in den abendländischen Werteverbund zu integrieren?
Mosebach: Sie verstehen sicher, dass ich Ihnen weder eine politische noch völkerrechtliche Antwort geben kann. Ich sehe nur, dass die Türkei im 20. Jahrhundert enorme Schwierigkeiten mit ihren christlichen europäischen Minderheiten hatte, und zwar gerade die antiislamische, sich modernisierende Türkei. Bis in die 50er-Jahre gab es noch ein griechisch dominiertes Konstantinopel, aber das Zusammenleben mit Christen ist den modernen Türken unerträglich gewesen, und so haben sie es denn gewaltsam beendet. Jetzt scheint man ein Heranrücken an Europa aus wirtschaftlichen Gründen erstrebenswert zu finden, ohne im Übrigen innenpolitisch die Bekämpfung der Christen zu revidieren. Von dem, was Sie “Integration in den abendländischen Werteverbund†nennen, sind wir, glaube ich, sehr weit entferntvon Martin Mosebach – 03.04.2010
April 14, 2010 at 9:58 pm in reply to: reorganisation and destruction of irish catholic churches #773851Praxiteles
ParticipantIt will be interesting to see what these people are going to come up with.
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