Praxiteles
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- November 26, 2005 at 5:20 pm in reply to: reorganisation and destruction of irish catholic churches #767426
Praxiteles
ParticipantRe hydraulic lift under the Pro Cathedral throne, I think that would be a wonderful idea and a very cost effective means of dealing with the declining or rising stature of the Dublin Archbishops. Looking at the fine job Cathal O’Neill did with the foot-bridge over the Dublin – Belfast railway line at Drogheda railway station with its dignified, symetrical and elegantly proportioned steel-cased lifts, I cannot think of a better person than himself to deal with this unexpected side-effect of his ruination of the sanctuary in the Pro-Cathedral.
Somebody, however, should tell the administrator of the Pro Cathedral that canopies, if not original or of artistic value, are not allowed by the post Vatican II liturgical rules. Even if a canopy were allowed, the colour should be an “ecclesiastical” colour (that is either red or green) and not some piece of raggady tribal totemism. After all, the Archdiocese of Dublin also includes the diocese of Glandalough – that is, large areas of Wicklow, Kildare, Carlow, Laois and even Wexford. The positioning of the Dublin colours overhead the present Archbishop does not seem to demonstrate much of the kind of diplomatic souplesse normally associated with major practioners of that particular art, such as the Cardinal D’Ossat, but perhaps gives the impression of a not too unconscious retreat to the Danborg and Dublin’s foreign ecclesiastical roots.
November 25, 2005 at 1:46 am in reply to: reorganisation and destruction of irish catholic churches #767422Praxiteles
ParticipantPerhaps “three cascades of perlucid yellow……”
(pace Samuel Beckett, Murphy )
November 24, 2005 at 8:42 pm in reply to: reorganisation and destruction of irish catholic churches #767420Praxiteles
ParticipantRe message 192.
If the the 2003 renovations in Thurles Cathedral involved the installation of what appears to be a copper-pan baptistry in the side aise of the Cathedral, does anyone know what has happened to the free standing Baptistry which is based on Pisa? This is the only example of a free standing external Baptistry in an Irish Cathedral. Is it too much to hope that it is now a potatoe store or trinket shop?
November 24, 2005 at 3:49 pm in reply to: reorganisation and destruction of irish catholic churches #767419Praxiteles
ParticipantRemarkably, this is the only image I can find of the West Portal of Cobh Cathedral showing Fagan’s wrought iron work to full effect.
The three figures in the porch are by George Smyth and were installed in 1912-1917.
November 24, 2005 at 3:18 pm in reply to: reorganisation and destruction of irish catholic churches #767418Praxiteles
ParticipantA small treat for viewers on to-day’s Feast of St. Colman of Cloyne (c.530 -604)
The great West Window of Cobh Cathedral whose subject is the Vision of the Throne of God taken from the Apocalypse of St. John (4:1-11). The subject is Our Lord seated in glory, sourrounded by the elders, clad in white teguments and crowns of gold. Around the throne are the the four living creatures (symbolic of the found evangelists): the lion, the ox, the man, and the soaring eagle. As they cry out Holy Holy Holy is the Lord God Almighty Who was, Who is, and Who is to come , they cast down their crowns before the throne and pay homage to Christ. The inner circle depicts the twelve Apostles. The outer circle depicts the saints in glory.
November 24, 2005 at 2:58 pm in reply to: reorganisation and destruction of irish catholic churches #767417Praxiteles
ParticipantTo digress for a moment, encosed is an image of the drawings for the completion of the spire of Cobh Cathedral signed in 1911 by Bishop Robert Browne and the builder, John Maguire. On the right hand side the measurements are included: from the section above the windows to the base of the spire is 72 feet; and from the base of the spire to the base of the cross is 128 feet. To solve the question of the highest spire in Ireland requires merely the hight of the initial base of the spire tower and the hight of the Cross. Any takers?
November 24, 2005 at 8:44 am in reply to: reorganisation and destruction of irish catholic churches #767415Praxiteles
ParticipantHave you got one of Cobh Cathedral with the doors closed and of Fagan’s wrought iron hinges in all their glory?
Praxiteles
ParticipantJ.F. Fuller (1835-1924)
November 24, 2005 at 12:55 am in reply to: reorganisation and destruction of irish catholic churches #767412Praxiteles
ParticipantThe foregoing pictures of Thurles Cathedral show only too well the vairous petit obsessions that the Liturgical Commission of the Irish Episcopal Conference has gone through over the past twenty years.
In the mid 1990s, the great discovery was the ambry. Hence, we have the Holy Oils now hawked about in several Cathedrals thoughout Ireland in a wide ranging series of eccentric compositions.
Enniscorthy chose to locate them high up on a bracket in the wall of the North transept. Most inappropriately, they are housed in a Victorian Tantulus.
Cashel seems to have gone for another spirited theme: the guarded liquids.
Surprisingly, none of the liturgists seems to have been aware that the Holy Oils are to be veiled in cloths of three different colours.
I would suggest that a visit to the Armenian Catholicos at Ekmiadzin in Armenia would teach the Archbishop of Cashel a thing or two on the proper reservation of the Holy Oils.
November 24, 2005 at 12:21 am in reply to: reorganisation and destruction of irish catholic churches #767410Praxiteles
ParticipantMy God! Thurles is far worse than I thought.
The inscription over the chancel arch is certainly an erratic and ironic survival at this point.
November 24, 2005 at 12:17 am in reply to: reorganisation and destruction of irish catholic churches #767409Praxiteles
ParticipantDear Boyler,
Not to worry. You may be interested in an article on the frescos in Cormac’s Chapel published in The Irish Arts Review Yearbook, vol 18 [2002], pp. 25-29 by Roger Stalley. A fragmentary inscription ite et interrogate diligenter de puero, ironically quoting Herod’s words to the Wise Men, seems to suggest that the frescos depicted the nativity cycle and especially the Three Kings – a theme appropriate to Royal cashel.
I have no idea of what the official guardians of Irish heritage intend to do with the Chapel and its frescos. The last time I visited Cashel, I was subjected to the ahistorical twaddle of an official guide who knew next to nothing of the place.
November 24, 2005 at 12:05 am in reply to: reorganisation and destruction of irish catholic churches #767407Praxiteles
ParticipantEnclosed is a photograph of the Ciborium of the High Altar in Thurles, designed and executed by Giacomo della Porta in 1584 for the Gesù in Rome. The Altar was commissioned by Cardinal Alessandro Farnese, nephew of Pope Paul III. Della Porta was the dominant architect in Rome for the last quarter of the 16th century and worked on all the major commissions in the City, most notably the building of the dome of St. Peter’s between 1588 and 1590. He completed the project in 1602 by adding the lantern. He was a highly practical architect and influenced by Michelangelo’s mannerism and Vignola’s classicism.
The Ciborium is made up of a variety of antique marbles that includes giallo antico, roso antico and africano.
The mensa of the altar is of white carrara marble inlaid with malachite, lapis lazuli, rosso agate and other semi-precious materials. It has an arcaded praedella of 16 columns of which 6 are in yellow Siena, 6 in griotte, and 4 in vert campan. All columns have bases and capitals in bronze.
As with the reordering in the Pro-Cathedral, the Ciborium was removed from the High Altar and placed on a disproportioned plinth while the Altar mena was moved forward into the chancel. The sum total of the effect was to create a focal void in the sanctuary.
It is worth wondering whether Cashel followed the Pro-Cathedral or vice versa. Certainly, the designs for the reordering are remarkably similar. The idea of trying to improve on Turnerelli is, however, surpassed in Cashel with the absurd prospect of someone trying to “improve” on one of the great master of European civilization.
Praxiteles
ParticipantEnclosed is a photograph of the Ciborium of the High Altar in Thurles, designed and executed by Giacomo della Porta in 1584 for the Gesù in Rome. The Altar was commissioned by Cardinal Alessandro Farnese, nephew of Pope Paul III. Della Porta was the dominant architect in Rome for the last quarter of the 16th century and worked on all the major commissions in the City, most notably the building of the dome of St. Peter’s between 1588 and 1590. He completed the project in 1602 by adding the lantern. He was a highly practical architect and influenced by Michelangelo’s mannerism and Vignola’s classicism.
The Ciborium is made up of a variety of antique marbles that includes giallo antico, roso antico and africano.
The mensa of the altar is of white carrara marble inlaid with malachite, lapis lazuli, rosso agate and other semi-precious materials. It has an arcaded praedella of 16 columns of which 6 are in yellow Siena, 6 in griotte, and 4 in vert campan. All columns have bases and capitals in bronze.
As with the reordering in the Pro-Cathedral, the Ciborium was removed from the High Altar and placed on a disproportioned plinth while the Altar mena was moved forward into the chancel. The sum total of the effect was to create a focal void in the sanctuary.
It is worth wondering whether Cashel followed the Pro-Cathedral or vice versa. Certainly, the designs for the reordering are remarkably similar. The idea of trying to improve on Turnerelli is, however, surpassed in Cashel with the absurd prospect of someone trying to “improve” on one of the great master of European civilization.
November 23, 2005 at 11:06 pm in reply to: reorganisation and destruction of irish catholic churches #767404Praxiteles
ParticipantDoes anybody know who the architects for the 1979 reordering of Thurles Cathedral were?
November 23, 2005 at 10:59 pm in reply to: reorganisation and destruction of irish catholic churches #767403Praxiteles
ParticipantA fuller picture of the 2003 restoration work is available here:
http://www.catholiccommunications.ie/Pressrel/3b-october-2003.html
November 23, 2005 at 10:46 pm in reply to: reorganisation and destruction of irish catholic churches #767402Praxiteles
ParticipantDear Boyler,
It appears that a further round of restoration work was carried out in Thurles in 2003 but no mention was made of frescos. The following may be of interest:
http://www.catholiccommunications.ie/Pressrel/architectsreportthurlescathedral.html
November 23, 2005 at 7:22 pm in reply to: reorganisation and destruction of irish catholic churches #767399Praxiteles
ParticipantFinally, I have located some photographs of the original interior of the Pro-Cathedral with Peter Turnerelli’s High Altar as intended by the artist. I think the occasion in question was the consecration of Archbishop McQuaid in 1942.
Closer inspection of the photograph will explain why the Ciborium, in its current form, looks wrong. It is wrong because it is an ungainly malformation. Professor O’Neill, in his devastating reordering, capped the original Ciborium with the canopy used for the crucifix (which, as can be seen from the photograph, was above the Ciborium). Clearly, had the Ciborium been retained in tact, the problem of the focal void would have been greater. In a brutal attempt to disguise this problem, even the Ciborium of Turnerelli’s Altar had to be jack-hammered.
The Ciborium had its own smaller domed finial (as is clear in the photograph). What now sits in the sanctuary of the Pro-Cathedral is merely an assemblage of bits and pieces.
November 23, 2005 at 4:21 pm in reply to: reorganisation and destruction of irish catholic churches #767398Praxiteles
ParticipantRe posting #103
Further to comments on the unfortunate re-ordering of Thurles Metropolitan Cathedral carried out in 1979, I enclose a photograph of the High Altar of St. Francis Xavier’s church in Gardnier St., Dublin which was built in Rome in 1838 to designs drawn up by Fr. Bartholomew Esmond, S.J.. The Altar incorporates several very rare marbles including an antique porphyry from Nero’s Domus Aurea (originally in the Basilica of St. Paul and salvaged from the fire of 1823), yellow jasper, malachite, and lapis lazuli. On completion, it was dimantled and shipped to Dublin and re-erected in Gardnier St. c. 1842. The altar of the Gesù , mother house of the Jeuits in Rome, may have served as a model for the Gardnier St. Altar. It affords some idea of what Giacomo della Porta’s altar would have looked like in Thurles before it was torn to bits.
(cf. Irish Arts Review, vol. 14, 1998, Maureen Ryan, Roman Opulence in a Dublin Church , pp.33-39)
November 23, 2005 at 3:11 pm in reply to: reorganisation and destruction of irish catholic churches #767396Praxiteles
ParticipantWilliam Henry Bartlett’s (1809-1854) series of prints appeared in The Scenery and Antiquities of Ireland . I have scanned a few of his steel engravings of the lupi in fabula!
The view of Cobh was engraved almost twenty years before the building of the Cathedral.
November 23, 2005 at 2:54 pm in reply to: reorganisation and destruction of irish catholic churches #767394Praxiteles
ParticipantRe posting # 177:
The engraver of this print of the Rock of Cashel is probably Bartlett and was done about 1840. It has been tinctured to heighten the romantic atmosphere.
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