Praxiteles
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Did anyone see Nationwide on RTE this evening?
I believe that The Chris’ photographs of the interior of the spire of Cobh Cathedral may well have given someone in Nationwide an idea for a programme broadcast this evening. Congratulations Chris!!
Try this link:
The problem at Cork, however, is that they occupy approximately two thirds of the width of the departure lounge creating the same kind of circulation problems that you have at terminal 2 at Charles de Gaule in Paris. Good circulation provisions would require a reduction in the amount of space alotted to the shops and duty free. By so doing, it would mean that when passengers line up to board they will not obstruct other passengers arriving into the departures lounge – and there appears to be only one entrance and that through an enormous Duty Free Shop.
As an example of how the internal walls of medieval churches looked like -plastered and/or whitewashed or stenciled, then we could well look at surviving examples in the German world. Here is a link to to the pilgrimage and parish church of St. Wolfgang in St-Wolfgang-am-Wolfgangsee in Upper Austria.
@ake wrote:
Tintern abbey, Wexford, part of the reclaimed south transept: the vaulting has been nicely plastered. The walls however are whitewashed.
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Some of the fine stonework found around the abbey
[ATTACH]3957[/ATTACH]Just imagine what you would have were the walls properly plastered and then whitewashed and stenciled.
The Church of the Immaculate Conception, Clonakilty, Co. Cork, built by George Ashlin (1869).
The church is a scaled down version of Cobh Cathedral and exhibits many of the characteristics found in Sts Peter and Paul’s in Cork and in Cobh Cathedral.
The West facade is a reversed image of the West facade at Cobh with the spire on the North side and the lower tower on the North side.
The vaulting of the nave and side aisles is in stained timber -reflecting prototypes such as the Cathedral at Saintes in France.
Clonakilty, as at Cobh, has three Rose Windows in the usual positions: North, South and West facades.
Again, like Cobh Cathedral, the Altar Rail -still mostly intact- runs from the wall of the North Transept across the nave to the wall of the South transept. This is an important element and one common to churches built by EW Pugin and GC Ashlin viz. Basilica of Our Lady of Perpetual Succor in Boston. During the Midelton Oral Hearing Professor O’Neill claimed that such an arrangement (spanning completely N to S) was an abbaration and could not have been built by an architect!!
The polycrome Apse ceiling further differentiates the sanctuary from the Nave, as do the the ascending floor levels. The back wall of the Apse is covered in a mosaic of a heavenly choir of angels. In the spandrels of the arches leading into the sanctuary from the North and South side chapels are two fine mosaics depicting Raphael’s Madonna della Sedia (1512-1514) and the Sixtine Madonna (1513-1514′).
The High Altar of 1897 is by G. O’Connor. The glass is by Mayer.
Unfortunately, the church is swamped by a very ungainly and ill-kept car park reaching even to the pavis of the main door.
Here are some of the long promised shots of the departures lounge at the new terminal at Cork Ariport:
@Istigh wrote:
I suggest the present situation is one we can and have to live with Prax, the town would burst a blood vessel if they were asked to submit funds to clean the Cathedral again.
I post the pictures to highlight how short lived the cleaned surface was.
Perhaps the notorious heineken bottle photo of the Cathedral covered in the green screen and scaffolding was an indication of things to come.
Hopefully it is a lesson those responsible can learn from, instead of wasting donated funds and grants battling the people through hearings, money should be focused on seeking out experts in there fields with the relevant experience.
There has been too much bodging going on.Absolutely out of the question! Stupidity of this magnitude must be addressed, corrected and those responsible for it kept out of anything further to do with Cobh Cathedral.
If the Cathedral had a proper institutional structure to attend to its maintenance and if this functioned as it should, then curative action would already be underway. A bishop is supposed to be a bishop not an engineer or an architect.
Failte isteach, istigh!!
Re the slime question and the “treatment” of the Cathedral during the recent restoration programme, I have a question for Istigh: how do you think the present problem might best be approached?
I am not sure the building opposite the Cathedral (the Bon Secours Convent) is the most helpful example of what might or might not have been before D. Slattery unleashed the power hoses on the Cathedral fabric. It was built much later than the Cathedral exterior which was finished by 1879. The Bons Convent was built in the 1930s, I believe.
@Praxiteles wrote:
Are we talking about Holy Cross?
The idea of stri[[ing [laster from walls is the girt to us of Emonn Casey and of his sackage of Killarney Cathedral. It is clear that the 19th century gothic revivalist architects working in Ireland intended that that interior rubble walls be plastered and whitewashed or decorated in stencils.
Whitewashing rubble is a practice reserved for stables – then Eamonn Casey may have taken the back to the stable approach just a little too far.
Another church (by JJ McCarthy) to suffer from the plaster stripping rage was St. John’s in Tralee. The result was a disaster. If Monaghan Cathedral has one advantage after its vandalization it is that it can be said that the walls were not stripped down to the rubble.
@ake wrote:
Sorry for going so far back.. I was wondering myself about the way all restored medieval interiors are whitewashed right onto the rubblework-is there even a scrap of historical evidence to suggest that this was ever the practice? On many ruins, for example the cathedral on the Rock of Cashel I’ve noticed what appears to me like fragments of plaster, often quite extensive. Now I’m not an expert, and maybe such plaster, if that’s even what it is, dates back only a couple of centuries, but you say ‘removal of plaster in 1974’ – was this plaster first used in the restoration or original plaster? For example, I notice the practice in all of the restored French Cistercian houses is smooth white plaster, with the decorative stone-work or the fine ashlar masonry left bare, untouched, which works to great effect. The visibility of the rubble texture in Irish buildings gives a look of primitivism and roughness, which although it has a certain charm of it’s own, may not do justice to the original buildings, or the intentions of a restoration. And yet in every book, or guide book (even the Duchas books) I’ve seen that touches the subject, whitewashing is unhesitantly declared as matter of fact. Surely they must know something..I’d love to know the truth of the matter.
P.S. It has just occured to me that whether or not there is evidence for medieval whitewashing, there is positive evidence for plastering, in Cormac’s chapel, in St.Audeons, and on Clare island, I think.
Are we talking about Holy Cross?
The idea of stri[[ing [laster from walls is the girt to us of Emonn Casey and of his sackage of Killarney Cathedral. It is clear that the 19th century gothic revivalist architects working in Ireland intended that that interior rubble walls be plastered and whitewashed or decorated in stencils.
Whitewashing rubble is a practice reserved for stables – then Eamonn Casey may have taken the back to the stable approach just a little too far.
Chris!
What a fantastic and unusual album of picctures of aspects of Cobh Cathedral rarely seen by the public. As far as I am aware, this is the first time much of this material has been shown in public. Again, one can see the unrelenting high standard of craftsmanship employed thorughout the fabric of Cobh Cathedral. Although no one ever sees the gargoyles because they are so high up, novertheless they are of a standard of excellence that would render them immediately capable of being collocated at the main door!!
As a matter of curiosity Chris, do you have any shots of the West, North and South rose windows?
Thanks again for a great set of pictures.
kite wrote:goldiefish wrote:….What will become of the Old limestone buildings that sit within the walls of the CIE yard at Horgans quay? Will they “fall down” by accident during the construction process(as has already happened elsewhere in the county to listed buildings or those with preservation orders)….…And by the way, where is the historic fountain on Grand Parade gone? This important structure has served as a useful facility for years where many a young student learnt to swim during Rag week. Also missing is the Traffic Island that was used by many motorcyclists as a safe parking space,QUOTE]
As long as insurance companies cover acts of spontaneous combustion listed and protected buildings are in danger in Cork.:rolleyes:
The fountain on the Grand Parade was to be removed permanently to provide a turning area for cars. Following representations from “]
Hopefully – dum sspiro spero!!
Chris!
Those photographs just get better and better. To quote a seasonal character – may we please have some more?
@ake wrote:
COI cathedral in Cashel, completed 1784
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Don’t you just want to kiss that sexy limestone
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A case of lithophelia?
Well, well, I think the the bold bishop has scored an own goal here. Sending presss releases around just before Christmas is a tricky business and he dpes not seem to have the hang of it. Here we have a clear example of the bold bishop serving up and own goal. He tell us that the Pope wishes him to preserve the interior of the Cobh Cathedral and at the same time he is ttrying to tell us that the present interior does not meet “liturgical requirements”. But, the forgetful bishop has forgotten the letter published in the Carow Nationalist from the Joseph Ratzinger from which we can see quite clearly that the nonsense push forward by the bold bishop is nowhere required by the Second Vatican Council nor by the current liturgical legislation of the Church. Just what do you need that get that point into a thick head? I agree with Sam! He seems to have been given a fairly sharp instruction to leave St. Colman’s as it is: This is what to-day’s Irish Independent has to say and the FOSCC are bound to have a glory day on this one:
Papal call to preserve cathedral
‘Beautiful’ building should be protected, Benedict tells local bishop
THE Pope has urged the preservation of an Irish cathedral that has been at the centre of a bitter planning wrangle for almost a decade.
The Bishop of Cloyne, Dr John Magee, revealed Pope Benedict’s plea that St Colman’s Cathedral in Cobh, Co Cork would be preserved as he dismissed suggestions that there would be any attempt to force through controversial changes to the church’s interior.
Last summer, An Bord Pleanala rejected plans for a ‘re-ordering’ of the interior of the cathedral, which is one of Ireland’s most famous neo-Gothic structures.
The board warned that the changes could jeopardise the entire ethos of the 19th century building.
Dr Magee has now said that the current situation “needs to be resolved” – and that the Pope told him, in a private audience earlier this year, that he too wants to see the beauty of St Colman’s preserved. “(The Pope said) it is a beautiful cathedral and I have not seen its interior but I can only imagine that it is beautiful.
“I encourage you to do what you can to preserve the beauty of that cathedral for the generations to come,” Dr Magee said.
The bishop insisted that while he would like to see the refurbishment of St Colman’s completed with the interior re-ordering, any works will be conducted in consultation with the planning board.
Earlier this year, the diocese ruled out a judicial challenge to the planning board’s decision which was taken by a six-to-two majority – and came after An Bord Plealala rejected the recommendation of their own inspector.
Following a two-day oral hearing in Midleton last March, he ruled that the board did not have the right to reject the changes to the cathedral on the basis it would be an interference with liturgical matters.
However, the board rejected that recommendation – insisting that they did have the right to rule on the interior changes to St Colman’s.
The changes were rejected as unduly interfering with the character and historical significance of the cathedral.
St Colman’s – which boasts breathtaking views over Cork harbour -is regarded by many as a masterpiece by the Victorian architect, AW Pugin.
The interior redesign proposed removing a number of the cathedral’s front aisles, lifting floor mosaics and extending the altar. The existing rails would be removed and the Bishop’s Chair would be located forward, towards the congregation.
Dr Magee, and the Diocese of Cloyne insisted the changes would not alter the ethos of the cathedral but, rather, would bring it into line with Vatican II guidelines.
Critics, however, claim that the proposed changes threatened the very fabric of the cathedral – and local opponents warned that, if the changes went ahead despite opposition, the diocese could face a boycott.
Ralph Riegel
@wearnicehats wrote:
…. My point is that it’s all very well looking at the future but it’s also important to judge how a building survives the process and how the planning process moulds a scheme from inception to realisation. I’m also going to be in cork in january and I’d like to know whether it’s worth staying there(!)
Could not agree more with you. That has been my point for quite some time on this forum. Of course it is always worth staying in Cork!
