Praxiteles
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- February 15, 2007 at 10:12 pm in reply to: reorganisation and destruction of irish catholic churches #769578
Praxiteles
ParticipantA note on the magic square featuring on the Passion Facade of the Sagrada Familia. The Square is organized to have a Magic Constant of 33 -the age of Our Lord:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Magic_square#The_Sagrada_Fam.C3.ADlia_magic_square
February 15, 2007 at 9:55 pm in reply to: reorganisation and destruction of irish catholic churches #769577Praxiteles
ParticipantSome more information concerning the Sagrada Familia;
February 15, 2007 at 12:56 am in reply to: reorganisation and destruction of irish catholic churches #769575Praxiteles
ParticipantHere is a note on Antoni Gaudi:
February 15, 2007 at 12:44 am in reply to: reorganisation and destruction of irish catholic churches #769574Praxiteles
Participant@Rhabanus wrote:
I presume that this is a reference to John Mason Neale, the renowned hymnographer and founder of the Cambridge Camden Society, which now glories under the name The Ecclesiology Society.
Here is the entry for him in Wikipedia: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Mason_Neale
The part about JMN being mauled at a funeral shows just what the iconoclasts would like to do today to lovers of the sacred liturgy. I myself was once stabbed in the hand by an iconoclast at a fondu party in Rome back in the early-Eighties. Luckily I survived to relate the tale. Nevertheless, it was a lesson well learned.
Re the photograph of JMN included in the entry: the expression suggests my own reaction to some of those shots of la sagrada familia, Spain.
Yes, this is the person referred to in the quotation.
What with the Brigado Rosso and the Badermeinhof lurking in the maquis, the assassinations of General della Chiesa and Aldo Moro, and the stabbing of anti-iconaclasts in broad day-light, Rome must have been a very dangerous place in the 70s and 80s. I hope things have improved – at least a little.
February 14, 2007 at 2:27 pm in reply to: reorganisation and destruction of irish catholic churches #769571Praxiteles
ParticipantA little snippet from A.G. Lough’s The Influence fo John Mason Neal:
It is also clear that Neal would have opposed the present demand for a central altar, which has come about through the modern Liturgical Movement. The Reverend Peter Hammons in a recent book, Liturgy and Architecture (1960) , emphasises that a church building must be a symbolic structure. “It must be informed from the outset by a theological understanding of its purpose”. Neal would have entirely agreed with this. But what precisely is a church meant to symbolize? Here Neal would have diffeded from Mr. Hammond. A church is meant to symbolize not simply the Church on earth, but the whole Churchin this life and in the life to come. In a medieval church tha chancel with its Rood Screen adorned with paintings of the saints, symbolized heaven and the final destiny of the People fo God. The chancel was the most vital and important part of the building. But the modern ecclesiologist would sweep all thi away, and have aplain building with a central altar and no apparent mystery or reminder of the world to come. Such a church would appear to symbolize only the CVhurch on earth, and leave out of account the great unseen Church in paradise and in Heaven. It would seem that the world to-day. with its material outlook, above all needs to be reminded that this world is not the end and purpose of all existence but only a preparation for what is to come…..The traditional plan of a medieval church was a symbol of this great truth” . So much for a 21 century sanctuary for a 21 century liturgy!!
February 14, 2007 at 11:58 am in reply to: reorganisation and destruction of irish catholic churches #769568Praxiteles
ParticipantSomeexamples of Etsuro Sotoo’s work on the Sagrada familia in Barcelona:
February 14, 2007 at 11:39 am in reply to: reorganisation and destruction of irish catholic churches #769567Praxiteles
ParticipantSome more views of the Sagrada Familia, Barcelona, begun on 18 March 1883. By the latest account the fisrt Mass will be celebrated in the nes church sometime in 2008-
February 14, 2007 at 11:32 am in reply to: reorganisation and destruction of irish catholic churches #769566Praxiteles
ParticipantSome more views of the Sagrada Familia in Barcelona
February 14, 2007 at 2:38 am in reply to: reorganisation and destruction of irish catholic churches #769565Praxiteles
ParticipantSome further views of the Sagrada Familia, Barcelona
February 14, 2007 at 2:24 am in reply to: reorganisation and destruction of irish catholic churches #769564Praxiteles
ParticipantThe Sagrada Familia, Barcelona, showing some of Etsuro Sotoo’s work crowning the pinnacles of the south facade:
February 14, 2007 at 1:43 am in reply to: reorganisation and destruction of irish catholic churches #769563Praxiteles
ParticipantA propos Etsuro Sotoo
http://es.catholic.net/escritoresactuales/643/760/articulo.php?id=27135
http://es.catholic.net/comunicadorescatolicos/730/2288/articulo.php?id=24760
http://www.tracce.it/det_Articoli.asp?Sezione=ottobre+2005&ID=20051028
http://seattlepi.nwsource.com/getaways/042596/dest25_top.html
http://www.traces-cl.com/2006E/10/asoncomi.html
http://www.gaudiallgaudi.com/AA012El%20cons.htm
http://www.catholic-life.co.uk/features/sagrada_familia.html
February 13, 2007 at 1:10 am in reply to: reorganisation and destruction of irish catholic churches #769562Praxiteles
ParticipantDieter!
The image below is the best I can manage so far on the the subject of the construction of the Constantinian Basilica on the Mons Vaticanus.
The image shows the line of the hill, the Roman graveyard with the tomb of St. Peter, the floor of the Constantinian Basilica; and the floor of the present Basilica.
February 12, 2007 at 11:25 pm in reply to: reorganisation and destruction of irish catholic churches #769561Praxiteles
ParticipantIt looks as though a serious efforts is underway to finish Anton Gaudi Sagrada Familia in Barcelona.
Here is the works report to the end of 2005: http://www.sagradafamilia.org/eng/arquitect/informeobres_05maig.pdf
Here is the website of theSagrada Familia: http://www.sagradafamilia.org/
February 12, 2007 at 2:51 am in reply to: reorganisation and destruction of irish catholic churches #769559Praxiteles
ParticipantDieter!
The map here shows the gradients on the Mons Vaticanus behind St. Peter’s Basilica. As you can see, it is quite steep in some parts. This is basically the shape given to the Mons Vaticanus after the excavations of Constantine. The steep gradients indicate where the hill was “sliced” so that the Basilica could be fitted in to an exact spot dictated by the location of the tomb of St. Peter.
The satellite picture shows this phenomenon.
February 12, 2007 at 2:30 am in reply to: reorganisation and destruction of irish catholic churches #769558Praxiteles
ParticipantDieter!
I have been trying to locate a cross section of the Mons Vaticanus to illustrate what I had to say above but it is proving difficult. For starters, however, here is a ground plan showing three things: at the bottom, the outline of the Circus of Nero; b. the groundplan of Conatantine’s basilica begun in 325; c. the groundplan of the present basilica.
As you can see, the High Altar is in exactky in the same place as that of the Constantinian basilica. In the new basilica, however, there is a much greater area of the church behind the High Altar.
February 12, 2007 at 2:09 am in reply to: reorganisation and destruction of irish catholic churches #769557Praxiteles
ParticipantDieter wrote:Your otherwise excellent summary of the main points did not include an interesting comment made by Christoph Schö]I omitted this point to avoid complicating the issue of orientation. In fact, the liturgy in St. Peter’s for a very long time had certain peculiarities deriving from its building history. For example, at the collect (which is now called the ‘opening prayer’ in English or the “Tagesgebet” in German), the Deacon announced Conversi ad Dominum. At this point, the congregation in St. Peter’s turned around and faced the door, with their backs to the Altar and to the Pope. So the liturgy in St. Peter’s has always been and “oriented” or east facing liturgy.
I think the Most Eminent Graf von Schoenborn confused matters a little in his choice of terms. “Ostierung” of a church means the Altar is in the east end of the church and that the church is “oriented” or built so that Mass is said facing East.
I am not sure what exactly was meant by “Occidented”. I take it to mean that the Altar is situated in the West end of the basilica which is (more or less true at present and more clearly ture in old St Peters). That however, does not mean that the Basilica is not “oriented” toward the east. It is in fact oriented to the east for the Pope stands at the west side of the High Altar and faces east.
It is accidental that the congregation in front of him happen to be facing west and towards him. However, as I said, for all the important parts of the Mass the rubric of the Basilica was “conversi ad Dominum” or “turned towards the Lord” i.e. turned toward the doors which are at the east end.
The “practical reasons” explaining the pecularitites of the location of the High Altar in St. Peter’s and the consequent rubrical pecularities derive from the practical necessity of locating the High Altar immediately over the tomb of St. Peter. When Constantine build old St. Peter’s in 325 the tomb was located on the slope of the Vatican Hill. In order to build the basilica, the slope had to be sliced and a very considerable wedge of it taken away to allow for the High Altar to be located over the tomb. However, if the nave of the old basilica were to have been build behind the High Altar, as you would expect, that would have necessitated a further excavation into the Vatican Hill. The amount of space that would have been required for the nave and for the forecourt of the basilica would have meant an excavation into the side of the hill to a point almost reaching half of the entire hill – which was not practical. Instead, Constantine caused a platform to be built to the East of the High Altar and used the material excavated from the hill to fill it in. It wa on this platform that he built the nave and the forecourts of the Basilica. The result was that while the High Altar was in the West end of the church, it was used in the “oriented” manner (that is with the Pope facing the doors in the east end) and with the peculiar rubrics of having the entire congregation face the doors (the east) for the important parts of the Mass – the same practice as you have in any orientated (or east facing) church.
The Cobh problem is not really about geography at all. Ultimately, it is a challenge to what is officially permitted by the liturgical laws of the Catholic church thrown down by a private interpretation of what liturgy should be that lacks all official approval. As the law stands, Mass can be said facing any way. The Cathedral in Cobh is oriented east/ west and the High Altar erected so that Mass is said facing east. Since the 1970s another altar (a Volksaltar) has been placed in the sanctuary at which Mass is said facing west. This arrangement is in conformity with the present liturgical law. Were the wreckage to have happened, Mass would still be said facing west but the surroundings would have been devastated and the implanted scheme would have given expressions to certain theological positions widely at variance with orthodox Catholic doctrine.
February 11, 2007 at 11:07 pm in reply to: reorganisation and destruction of irish catholic churches #769554Praxiteles
ParticipantA mosaic portrait of Pope John VII (705-707) from the Chapel of the Mother of God in Old St. Peter’s shown here holding the chapel of which he is donor.
February 11, 2007 at 7:36 pm in reply to: reorganisation and destruction of irish catholic churches #769553Praxiteles
ParticipantDoes anyone know anything about what is currently going on at the Cathedral of the the Immaculate Conception and St. Nathy in Ballaghaderreen, Co. Roscommon? There were proposal for the wreckage of its interior but I have heard of their being put into operation.
February 11, 2007 at 1:54 pm in reply to: reorganisation and destruction of irish catholic churches #769552Praxiteles
ParticipantTo understand the iconographical choice and structure of many of the Golden Altars shown above we have to examine their prototype which was the mosaic decoration of the Chapel of the Mother of God in old St. Peter’s Basilica, built by Pope John VII sometime between 705 and 707.
February 10, 2007 at 11:58 am in reply to: reorganisation and destruction of irish catholic churches #769549Praxiteles
ParticipantJust to change the subject a little, I am posting a description of Canterbury Cathedral taken from The Ecclesiologist for January 1845 deploring the lact of maintenance of the building which is ascribed to a lack of reverence for the building in turn deriving from deficient belief in the form, object and efficacy of Christian worship. By changing the dates and the names of the place one could well be referring to St. Colman’s Cathedral, Cobh, Co. Cork which, unfortunately, has fallen into the hands of an equally -if not more – unlearned and uncouth clergy who are incapable even of varnishing the doors against attrition of the elements:
A beautiful stair case turret tot he south-west transept is entirely out of repair; and generally in this part the windows are broken, or their cills are vegitating wuth weeds. St. Anselm’s chapel especially requires the glazier… The northeren side, which is concealed very much by by buildings, is even deficient in rain water pipes, and the walls are streaked with green. The most valuable sculptures here are unheeded….The chapter house is in disorder, damp and littered, and looks as if it were of no use to the modern economy of the Cathedral. The cloisters are a lumber-place for ladders, tackle, and stone, in spite of the noble efforts lately made (as we understand) in its favour by one of teh canons. How unlike its former appearance , when it was used for devout meditation, its windows glazed, and its walls painted with holy texts. The state of the crypt would not suggest to anyone that it is the restimg place of some of the most illustrous primates of the English Church” .
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