Praxiteles
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- October 3, 2007 at 10:38 pm in reply to: reorganisation and destruction of irish catholic churches #770550
Praxiteles
ParticipantUnfortunately, Milan’s octagonal Baptistery, San Giovanni in Fonte, has disappeared but its remains were exceavted in 1961 while building the Milan underground. More is the pity that it has disappeared for it was here that St. Ambrose, bishop of Milan, received St. Augustine into the church and baptized and confirmed him during the Easter vigil of 387
http://www.30giorni.it/us/articolo.asp?id=3552
And here, the verses written by Ambrose that decorated the entableture of the Milanese Baptostery:
OCTACHORVM SANCTOS TEMPLVM SVRREXIT IN VSVS
OCTAGONVS FONS EST MVNERE DIGNVS EO
HOC NVMERO DECVIT SACRI BAPTISMATIS AVLAM
SVRGERE QVO POPVLIS VERA SALVS REDIIT
LVCE RESVRGENTIS CHRISTI QVI CLAVSTRA RESOLVIT
MORTIS ET E TVMVLIS SVSCITAT EXANIMES
CONFESSOSQVE REOS MACVLOSO CRIMINE SOLVENS
FONTIS PVRIFLVI DILVIT INRIGVO
HIC QVICVMQVE VOLVNT PROBROSA[E] CRIMINA VITAE
PONERE CORDA LAVENT PECTORA MVNDA GERANT
HVC VENIANT ALACRES QVAMVIS TENEBROSVS ADIRE
AVDEAT ABSCEDET CANDIDIOR NIVIBVS
HVC SANCTI PROPERENT NON EXPERS VLLVS AQVARVM
SANCTVS IN HIS REGNVM EST CONSILIVMQVE DEI
GLORIA IVSTITIAE NAM QVID DIVINIVS ISTO
VT PVNCTO EXIGVO CVLPA CADAT POPVLI[The temple of eight niches rises for sacred uses,
the octagonal font is worthy of this gift.
It was right that on this number the hall of sacred baptism
should rise whereby true salvation has been given back to people
in the light of Christ resurgent, he who opens the prison
of death and wakes the lifeless from the tomb,
and, freeing from the stain of sin those who confess their guilt,
washes them in the current of the pure-flowing font.
Here all those who want to abandon the guilts of a vile life
Let them wash their hearts, safeguard a clean mind.
Let them come prompt here: and though benighted, who approach
do dare, will leave whiter than the snow.
Here hasten the saints: of these waters ignorant
there is no saint, in them is the kingdom and design of God.
O glory of justice! For what is more divine than this
that in a brief instant the guilt of a people crumble?]October 3, 2007 at 10:29 pm in reply to: reorganisation and destruction of irish catholic churches #770549Praxiteles
ParticipantAn article on Baptisteries in Christian North Africa:
http://people.vanderbilt.edu/~james.p.burns/chroma/baptism/jensbapt.html
October 3, 2007 at 10:58 am in reply to: reorganisation and destruction of irish catholic churches #770548Praxiteles
ParticipantThe Romanesque Baptistery of St. John, rebuilt in the 12 century, at Ascoli Piceno.
The Baptistery is an octagon rsing from a square and is located on the north side of the Cathedral of St. Emidio
October 3, 2007 at 10:44 am in reply to: reorganisation and destruction of irish catholic churches #770547Praxiteles
ParticipantThe Baptistery of St. John at Cremona.
Again, an octagonal structure begun in 1167 with additions in the 16th century.
The Baptismal Font was installed in 1520-1531 to designs by Lorenzo Trotti
October 3, 2007 at 10:13 am in reply to: reorganisation and destruction of irish catholic churches #770546Praxiteles
ParticipantThe Baptistery of St. John at Parma
An octagon built by Benedetto Antelami in 1196.
The interior is covered in frescoes from 13th and 14th centuries. the most striking internal feature is the painted ceiling of 16 panels.
October 3, 2007 at 8:55 am in reply to: reorganisation and destruction of irish catholic churches #770545Praxiteles
ParticipantThe baptistery of St John at Pistoia
An octagon, built by Andrea Pisano 1333-1355.
October 3, 2007 at 8:24 am in reply to: reorganisation and destruction of irish catholic churches #770544Praxiteles
ParticipantThe baptistery at Pisa
The present Baptistery at Pisa was built to replace an earlier one bewteen 1153 and 1363. The lower ranges of the building are romanesque while the upper ones are Gothic.
The Pisa baptistery is circular enclosing a floor plan laid out as an octagon in whioch is situated a large octagonal font from c. 1250.
Pisa is the largest Bsptistery in Italy.
October 2, 2007 at 11:20 pm in reply to: reorganisation and destruction of irish catholic churches #770543Praxiteles
Participant@ake wrote:
They don’t know anything about liturgy, or care I’m sure. I doubt half of these modernist clergymen can pronounce transubstantiation. I think you’re right about the baptistry being unique. A pity it’s locked.
What I would like to know is what the Conservation officer for Tipperary County Council (South Riding) is doing about this. Is he/she as over-holidayed as his/her counterparts in Cork?
October 2, 2007 at 11:18 pm in reply to: reorganisation and destruction of irish catholic churches #770541Praxiteles
ParticipantFor the reeducation of the recently decommissioned Green Guard here are some links to how the Armenians approache the matter of Holy Oil:
October 2, 2007 at 10:50 pm in reply to: reorganisation and destruction of irish catholic churches #770539Praxiteles
ParticipantAS far as Praxiteles is aware, the Baptistery at Thurles is as close that we came to an external Baptistery. Again, the Green Guard did their vandalism here and the Baptistery is now located somewhere neart the altar of Thurles Cathedral -which makes absolutely no theological sense and lacks all historical precedent. This arrangement, much pushed in American circles at present, is merely a piece of theatrical posturing with seating for the gawkers. Also curious in Thurles (again taken brought home by some cleric who has obviously spent too many summer holidays in the US) is the gaudy display of the Holy Oils for the scoffing multitude. Again, a completely unreligious attitude to the elements used for the administration of the Sacrament of Baptism. Now that the cultural liturgical revolution is coming to an end, it might be perhapse a good idea to send some of these characters to Etchmiadzin where they might be re-educated in a proper religious attitude to elements used in Sacrament of Baptism. The Armenian Patriarch still has a very acute sense of the sacredness of these things which might do the people in Thurles some good!
October 2, 2007 at 10:44 pm in reply to: reorganisation and destruction of irish catholic churches #770538Praxiteles
ParticipantBoth of these Irish examples derive from the Baptistery in Pisa which is circular and to which Praxiteles hopes to come to-morrow.
October 2, 2007 at 10:42 pm in reply to: reorganisation and destruction of irish catholic churches #770537Praxiteles
ParticipantAke!
Hre is another Irish example. It is G.C. Ashlin’s narthex for St. MAry’s Church at Mallow, Co. Cork. The Baptistery is on the left -unfortunately, it has been denuded of its font which is rambling somewhere around the church interior.
October 2, 2007 at 10:33 pm in reply to: reorganisation and destruction of irish catholic churches #770535Praxiteles
ParticipantAke!
Is this the Baptistery at Thurles?
October 2, 2007 at 5:58 pm in reply to: reorganisation and destruction of irish catholic churches #770533Praxiteles
ParticipantIn view of our discussion of Baptism, Praxiteles thinks taht it might be helpful to post the following just in case the Cloyne HACK does not know what it isM and just in case the Green Army of the liturgical revolution have succeeded in causing an obfuscation of its meaning:
October 2, 2007 at 5:50 pm in reply to: reorganisation and destruction of irish catholic churches #770532Praxiteles
ParticipantThe Baptistery of Fréjus in France
October 2, 2007 at 5:07 pm in reply to: reorganisation and destruction of irish catholic churches #770531Praxiteles
ParticipantThe Arian Baptistery in Ravenna
A beautiful octagon originally enclosed by an ambulatory which connected it to the arian church.
Built under Theodoric c. 490 it functioned as the baptostery for the heretical Arians until the accession of the Emperor Justinian c.550 when the complex was made over to Catholic worship and the baptistery re-dedicated as a chapel to Santa Maria Cosmedin.
The iconographic scheme is generally that of the earlier Baptistery of Bishop Neon: Christ baptized in the Jordan (personified by the old man on the left) encircled by a procession of the twelve apostles.
It should, however, be noted that the figure of Christ does not have a beard indicating an absence of one of the indicators of divinity used in this late classical/early Christian art.
For information on the Arian heresy see here: http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/01707c.htm
For further information and pictures of the Baptistery see here: http://www.drcolinparsons.org.uk/Italian/Baptisteries.htm
and this: http://www.tau.ac.il/arts/publications/assaph%209/Weinryb%2041-58.pdfOctober 2, 2007 at 4:41 pm in reply to: reorganisation and destruction of irish catholic churches #770530Praxiteles
ParticipantThe Orthodox Baptistery at Ravenna also kown as the Baptistery of Bishop Neon
This ocatgonal baptistery was built by Bishop Ursus c. 390 A.D. and completed about 100 years later by Bishop Neon who installed a dome (conceled by the external walls) and the mosaics. Again, the Baptistery is DETACHED from the church and EXTERNAL to it.
For some pictures of the spectacular mosaics of the dome depicting the Baptism of Jesus in Jordan by St John the Baptist with an outer ring depicting the twelve apostles see here:
http://mosaicartsource.wordpress.com/2007/02/06/neonian-baptistry-ravenna-italy/
Below is the central vault of the dome
October 2, 2007 at 11:24 am in reply to: reorganisation and destruction of irish catholic churches #770529Praxiteles
ParticipantPerhaps to understand something of the functioning of these early baptesteries, it would be helpful to take a brief look at the manner in which Baptism was administered in the Church’s early period.
Firstly, Baptism was administered to adults who had undergone a catechumenate or period of instruction in preparation for Baptism which took place during the Easter vigil.
At this period, Baptism was accompanied by the Sacraments of Confirmation and the Eucharist (or first Holy Communion). The three sacraments were administered in the following manner: the catechumens were baptized in the Baptistery outside of the Cathedral; after Baptism they processed into the Cathedral where they were Confirmed by the Bishop; there followed the rest of the Mass during which they received Holy Communion for the first time.
Things remained thus in both the East and Western Churches until about the 4th and 5th centuries and the controversies surrounding the question of infact baptism and the palagian heresy. Here the great exponent of the absolute need for Baptism in order to obtain salvation was St. Augustine who insisted on the practice of infant baptism. Eventually, the practice of infant baptism became universal in both the Eastern and Western Churches but its adoption brought about adjustments to the manner in which Baptism was celebrated in both the Eastern and Western Churches.
In the Eastern Churches, the approach was taken of administering Baptism, Confirmation and Holy Eucharist together to the infant, thereby preserving the ancient connection bewteen all three sacraments. This remains the practice among all of the easter Churches up to the present: the child is baptized, confirmed and given Holy Copmmunion at the same time.
In the Western church, however, a different approach to the question of infant baptism was taken. Here the child was baptized and confirmation and Holy Communion were deferred to a later date. In this system, the ancient connection between the three sacraments of initiation was lost. But, the primitive practice of the bishop performing all baptisms was partially preserved by reserving the administration of Confirmation to him while delegating the sacrament of Baptism to any priest (or any person in case of emergency).
While in the primitive church, Baptism was by total immersion (and remains so in the eastern Churches), in the West, baptism came to be administered by infusion (or pouring of water) although immersion remains a valid option. In the West, although Confirmation is deferred, the anointings that take place in Confirmation, are still performed as sacramentals at all baptisms: so every child is anointed with the oil of catechumens and with Chrism at Baptism.
October 2, 2007 at 10:30 am in reply to: reorganisation and destruction of irish catholic churches #770528Praxiteles
ParticipantHere we have waht is probably one of the earliest of all Baptisteries – that of the house church in the excavations of Dura-Europos on the Euphrates in Eastern Syria. The city had a flourishing Christian community. What has been recovered from the excavations (begun in 1928) reveal fragments from very early Christian sources. The city was sacked in 256 A.D. and its ebtire population deported. Thus the Baptistery here antedates the year 256. It could well have been over a hundred years older than that date. AS with the later European examples, even at this propt-primitive stage, the Baptistery is separate from the house-church.
The Baptistery is laid out as a sepulcher -reminiscent of that of Jerusalem. The laiy out is evidently and heavily inspired by the teology of St. Paul with his emphasis on unity with Chirct dying to rise with him to new life through the Sacrament of Baptism.
The iconographic scheme of the surviving frescoes are drawn from the Hellenistic-Jewish Tradition and depict The Good Shephard; The Healing of the Paralytic; Christ walking on the water with St. Peter; and the women approaching the tomb of Chirst on the first Easter morning.
Some further shots of Dura Europos:
October 2, 2007 at 8:59 am in reply to: reorganisation and destruction of irish catholic churches #770527Praxiteles
ParticipantSome further photographs of the Baptistery of St. Jean at Poitiers
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