Praxiteles

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  • Praxiteles
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    @johnglas wrote:

    Many continental churches built in the middle ages have been ‘baroqued’, but I think this is rarely a happy marriage.

    I wonder? What, for example, of Stift Zwettl in Lower Austria?

    Praxiteles
    Participant

    And another view of the Pietà in the Choir of NDP:

    Praxiteles
    Participant

    While fumbling around for information on the Pieta in Choir of NDP, Praxiteles came acorss this rather interesting little pice on hinges – and specifically those of portals of Notre Dame. From the text,. it would seem that much of it is drwan either from Didron Annales, or from Viollet-le-Duc’s Dictionary. However, it makes one very important point: strapwork such as we find on the doors of NDP is an extremely COMPLICATED piece of work and require the utmost skill both to forge and assemble.

    I post this because, if you compare them, you wiol find that the strap work on the West door of Cobh Cathedral very closely resembles that on the Portail de Sainte Anne in NDP. Hence, any tampering with the poorly conserved strapwork in Cobh would want to keep the original point in mind: strap work of this kind (and quality) is extremely COMPLICATED to forge and assemble.

    Praxiteles wonders just how well Mr Southgate is going to do dans les forges de l’enfer.

    Now, I mention this specific piece of detail because we understand that a conservationist architect called Chris Southgate has, it appears, received a commission from the highly enlightened Restoration Committee at Cobh Cathedral to “restore” the doors and poarch of the West facade. I wonder….. I ask: if Mr Southgate were to take the strapwork off the West door in Cobh and to disassemble it; would he know how to fit all the bits back together again? Or, and we fear we might be facing this scenario, are we about to have an existential experience of Humpty Dumty and find ourselves UNABLE to reassemble the strap work? This, Praxiteles, is certain is an example fot he type of question the easily impressionable Cobh Town Council will be wanting to ask itself – or have it asked for it by the FOSCC!!

    Anyway, here is the bit:

    Une penture est un morceau de fer plat replié en rond à une extrémité de manière à y former un œil destiné à recevoir le mamelon d’un gond, et qui attaché sur la surface d’une porte, est destiné à la suspendre et à la faire mouvoir, tout en la maintenant bien stable. Les pentures sont clouées et boulonnées aux vantaux des portes (ref : [25] ).

    Les portes de Notre-Dame de Paris sont décorées de pentures en fer forgé d’une exceptionnelle beauté. Les vantaux de la porte Sainte-Anne par exemple sont garnis d’admirables pentures, qui les recouvrent presque entièrement et sont de petits chefs-d’œuvre de ferronnerie. Elles forment d’amples arabesques fines et légères, des dessins de fleurs et de feuillages, et même des formes animales. Ce sont des témoins de premier plan de l’art consommé de la serrurerie aux XIIe et XIIIe siècles. De plus, elles ressortent magnifiquement sur l’enduit dont on a recouvert les vantaux.
    De tout temps les parisiens furent fascinés par ces petites merveilles en fer forgé. Et bientôt des légende se formèrent. L’une d’entre elles affirmait qu’elles étaient si belles qu’il n’était pas croyable qu’elles aient été exécutées par un simple forgeron. Celui-ci aurait vendu son âme au diable en échange de l’incomparable talent de transformer le fer en feuillages et brindilles, ce qui valut au forgeron le surnom de Biscornette. Suivant une autre légende, les pentures des portails auraient été forgées par le diable lui-même dans les forges de l’enfer ([26] [27] ).

    Les pentures des deux portes (nord et sud) du transept qui dataient du Moyen Âge ont été remplacées au XVIIIe siècle par des pentures de style gothique tel qu’on l’imaginait à l’époque. Quant au portail du Jugement, suite à l’intervention de Soufflot fin du XVIIIe siècle, les portes en furent remplacées par deux vantaux de bois adaptés aux nouvelles dimensions données à la porte à cette époque, et sculptés de deux effigies grandeur nature du Christ et de la Vierge. Viollet-le-Duc déposa les portes de Soufflot et reconstitua le portail tel qu’il était au Moyen Âge, ainsi que les anciennes pentures qui datent donc du XIXe siècle.

    figure 1 – L’artiste forgeron de l’époque a commencé par forger séparément chacune des brindilles, pour les rassembler par après
    figure 2 – Les cinq pièces principales de la penture inférieure de la porte Sainte-Anne
    figure 3 – Penture de la porte Sainte-Anne – Un exemple de l’extrême complexité de la réunion des petites branches

    Les bandes de ces pentures ont une largeur de 16 à 18 centimètres, sur une épaisseur de 2 centimètres environ. Elles sont composées de plusieurs bandes réunies et soudées de distance en distance au moyen d’embrasses (voir figure 2 ci-dessus). Celles-ci non seulement ajoutent une grande résistance à l’ensemble, mais permettent de recouvrir les soudures des branches recourbées.

    Praxiteles
    Participant

    On the Pietà behind the High Altar of NDP, we have some light.

    Th composition is teh work of the French sculptor Nicolas Coustou, (Lyon, 9 janvier 1658 – Paris, 1er mai 1733),

    The work was installed in the Choir of NDP by Robert de Cotte in his reorganisation of the Choir of NDP between 1708 and 1725 – which was largely responsible for the destruction of much of the medieval Choir and Sanctuary including the medieval High Altar and the Choir Stalls.

    de Cotte also plastered over the original gothic arches of the Choir and “classicised” them -pace David’s pisture of the Coronation of Napoleone. He also demolished the mediaval Jubé (I think that is sufficient for this gentleman to be awarded the WIll Dosing Prize and added to the list of Iconoclasts).

    He did, however, install the present Choir Stalls.

    Viollelt-le-Duc removed de Cottes classical High Altar and replaced it with a neo-Gothic one (the present one); he also removed the plaster-classicized arches from the gothic originals. He did however leave the the Pietà and the statue of Louis XIII.

    The picture depicts Nicolas Coustou by Legros.

    Praxiteles
    Participant

    And the other from about 1635 which was done as a predella for an Altar in the Church of the Conversi in Antwerp on commission from the Abbé Scaglia.

    Praxiteles
    Participant

    ANd here are the Anthony van Dyck Lamentations for the dead Christ. The first here from c. 1634.

    Praxiteles
    Participant

    Thta is an interesting view of the High Altar and indeed the composition appears to be there. However, I am not all togeher sure of all those very classical looming arches enclosing the Choir of NDP:

    Praxiteles
    Participant

    And this oicture gives some idea of the quality of the workmanship on the Choir Stalls in Notre Dame de Paris.

    Praxiteles
    Participant

    The Pietà on the High Altar of Notre Dame de Paris.

    This composition was placed in Notre Dame as a than offering by Louis XIII. the influence of Van Dyck on the composition is obvious and much resembles two of his painting of the same subject.

    I am not certain if this is teh original composition or a copy placed there after the Revolution. Anyone any information on the subject?

    Praxiteles
    Participant

    No it has not but we will be delighted to see some pictures of the horror.

    Praxiteles
    Participant

    Why cannot Mary Immaculate lease the churhc out to an association of congregation members and keep it going as a church? Surely, Mary I cannot have that many books?

    Praxiteles
    Participant

    @ake wrote:

    a tragic shame but at least it’s not being turned into a leisure centre

    What is happening with it?

    Praxiteles
    Participant

    And an example of the tapistries of the Life of St’Etienne originally from Auxerre:

    http://www.musee-moyenage.fr/homes/home_id20392_u1l2.htm

    Praxiteles
    Participant

    The Tournai tapistries have been hung in the Chape du St Esprit since 1876:

    Praxiteles
    Participant

    Here is something of the tapestries of the Cathedral of Notre Dame de Tournai which date from 1402.

    http://www.cathedrale-tournai.be/cathedraletournai/fr/la%2btapisserie%2bd’arras.html

    Praxiteles
    Participant

    And here we have an interesting study of the brutality with which the the steps of the modern extension to the sanctuary has been carried out. Just compare those dreadfully “square” or “carré” steps with the rounded steps of the High Altar as left by Viollet-le-Duc. Of course, the architect who put those awfullooking things there not only lacked a certain aesthetic sense but he also was unaware of the advice given by liturgists (who knew their stff) that steps should always be rounded -especially at the corners – so that those who had to use them liturgically did not bang their ankles against them!

    Praxiteles
    Participant

    And another of the Choir and High Altar:

    Praxiteles
    Participant

    Following on the opportunity of seeing Westminster Cathedral liturgically operate as architecturally intended, we are now afforded the even more unexpected opportunity of seeing Notre Dame de Paris liturgically operate as it was intended after the restoration of Viollet-le-Duc. Here are some shots of the Mass celebrated at the High Altar of Notre Dame (which must not have been used for at least 40 years) yesterday evening, 17 June 2008. The Mass was of course celebrated in the Tridentine Rite.

    Praxiteles
    Participant

    And again, the life of St. Stephen

    Praxiteles
    Participant

    And another example: Christ walking on the waters with St. Peter

Viewing 20 posts - 2,641 through 2,660 (of 5,386 total)